February, so that's 3 more months for Moyes to do what the great man did? I don't for one second think we'll bounce back the way we did that season, but the comparison is important.
As you say we don't need a whole team, he needs to decide on the CB's, is he going to bring in Jones and Smalling to platoon at CB with Evans and get bedded in there. We definitely need a LB and he was trying to get Baines. It's not his fault we have an idiot for a CEO, a couple of midfielders and get Zaha into this side , he can't be worse than we already have. 3-4 players would do it. It is the midfield that is the priority in January. If he can get the midfield sorted that will help the defence as well as they might get more protection.
Moyes may have to take some blame for actually signing a player, if that is an issue, but the fact that Fellaini is taking time to settle is more the issue with his poor form. People are willing to blame Moyes for everything, except anything positive, like Rooney's form, even that is being spun on here as a Moyes weakness.
I've not seen Ferguson's influence underrated here at all. I have seen plenty underrate the quality of our squad. He was both a great manager and they are great players. The picture some are painting of him being a God-like manager who dragged a team that they make sound as good as Sunderland to title after title is frankly, rubbish.
It is weird. This season was always going to be "different" and "difficult" and could have been "exciting" and "fresh" too. Instead it's began being "shit" and has become "abysmal".
Putting words in inverted commas is fun.
Moyes wouldn't have been expecting Fellaini to take this long to settle. He wouldn't be the first player to come for big money to United and struggle. You don't know until they are here.
Why is the comparison important?
The players were starting to lax and Fergie saw that. He had enough of every match being it's his last game at Anfield or whatever. The players knew Fergie wouldn't be there next season, so they most likely would have got away with not performing.
If the players aren't performing for Moyes now, what makes you say they will in February?
I'm not sure you can say it's underrated anymore. It's an absolute mess.I've not seen Ferguson's influence underrated here at all. I have seen plenty underrate the quality of our squad. He was both a great manager and they are great players. The picture some are painting of him being a God-like manager who dragged a team that they make sound as good as Sunderland to title after title is frankly, rubbish.
It is weird. This season was always going to be "different" and "difficult" and could have been "exciting" and "fresh" too. Instead it's began being "shit" and has become "abysmal".
Putting words in inverted commas is fun.
I'll say this again DT.
Woodward's probably an idiot.
But any managers having Thiago and Fabregas on their list is probably going to ended up with cakes on his face, unless you're managing Real Madrid. It takes even Barca one whole season of tapping him up, laping him up with Barca jersey on the world cup final to finally get their man.
And Moyes suddenly thinks Fabregas of all people would want to play under him. Yeah right.
Let's face it, even with Gill and SAF there's little possibility of Fabregas would want to join us.
1. Moyes "knew" how much his budget are, I don't believe a manager doesn't get to know how much roughly he'll have to spend.
2. Moyes should knew roughly how much it takes to get baines and or Fellaini, he coached there for 10 years, and probably knew the board more than Gill/Woodward will ever knew.
3. Moyes can set the negotiations deadline and if no deal are made can set on to his next on his shortlist (which I bet he hasn't got a clue)
4. If you're asking your CEO to bid for Fabregas knowing you have only 30M to spend.... well... what do you expect?
I'll say this again DT.
Woodward's probably an idiot.
But any managers having Thiago and Fabregas on their list is probably going to ended up with cakes on his face, unless you're managing Real Madrid. It takes even Barca one whole season of tapping him up, laping him up with Barca jersey on the world cup final to finally get their man.
And Moyes suddenly thinks Fabregas of all people would want to play under him. Yeah right.
Let's face it, even with Gill and SAF there's little possibility of Fabregas would want to join us.
1. Moyes "knew" how much his budget are, I don't believe a manager doesn't get to know how much roughly he'll have to spend.
2. Moyes should knew roughly how much it takes to get baines and or Fellaini, he coached there for 10 years, and probably knew the board more than Gill/Woodward will ever knew.
3. Moyes can set the negotiations deadline and if no deal are made can set on to his next on his shortlist (which I bet he hasn't got a clue)
4. If you're asking your CEO to bid for Fabregas knowing you have only 30M to spend.... well... what do you expect?
Without being in the room when it was discussed I can only speculate as to how much Moyes was pushing for big signing a but in a summer like this we should have stepped back from these outdated notions of 'value in the market' we have and given him some new, quality players to work with. Struggling to get the Fellaini deal over the line coming up to midnight was about as uninspiring as it gets.There was very little chance of it being exciting and fresh without better signings, anything less was always a downgrade considering who was leaving. I blame the club on this more than Moyes.
Moyes may have to take some blame for actually signing a player, if that is an issue, but the fact that Fellaini is taking time to settle is more the issue with his poor form. People are willing to blame Moyes for everything, except anything positive, like Rooney's form, even that is being spun on here as a Moyes weakness.
Because Fergie to the players to perform before announcing his decision to stay on. They started playing well while they still thought he would not be there next season. If Moyes is a good enough motivator he can do the same though his job is far tougher as he doesn't have the authority that Fergie earned by winning a bunch of trophies.
In honesty, I think redcafe have been very supportive of Moyes.
Most of us are trying to sugar coat the current predicament to his favor.
But honestly, if getting Rooney playing at his level is the only positives so far.... I'm speechless.
Let's not coat it as it is, things aren't positive.
And I personally don't expect alot from Moyes. Just play the team how he wants them to play, even if it takes a few loses to get them playing the way he envision it so be it, it's the price to pay and I guess most of us are writting this season off long before it started.
But currently, he looks totally clueless and just keep on playing the same tactics hoping for luck to go his ways. It doesn't work that ways, you need luck in the Final of the Champions League (1999,2008) but if you need luck on every match you play, that's not part to luck, that's part to incompetence.
It's not the result, nobody here bothers so much about the result, but the performance has been dire and most importantly for me : directionless.
We don't have a clue how we want to play. The Players are clueless, and I suspect the managers are equally clueless
Unless Fabregas' agent was playing us. There was definitely contact between both parties.I'll say this again DT.
Woodward's probably an idiot.
But any managers having Thiago and Fabregas on their list is probably going to ended up with cakes on his face, unless you're managing Real Madrid. It takes even Barca one whole season of tapping him up, laping him up with Barca jersey on the world cup final to finally get their man.
And Moyes suddenly thinks Fabregas of all people would want to play under him. Yeah right.
Let's face it, even with Gill and SAF there's little possibility of Fabregas would want to join us.
1. Moyes "knew" how much his budget are, I don't believe a manager doesn't get to know how much roughly he'll have to spend.
2. Moyes should knew roughly how much it takes to get baines and or Fellaini, he coached there for 10 years, and probably knew the board more than Gill/Woodward will ever knew.
3. Moyes can set the negotiations deadline and if no deal are made can set on to his next on his shortlist (which I bet he hasn't got a clue)
4. If you're asking your CEO to bid for Fabregas knowing you have only 30M to spend.... well... what do you expect?
Unless Fabregas' agent was playing us.
I think that is likely, SAF might have guessed that pretty quickly, Woodward and Moyes don't have the experience of dealing with big names yet and got sucked in. They will know better next time.
Either that or they were desperate to sign a big name with none available that play central midfield. I don't fault them for going after him but it was silly to let it play out in the press. Never has been the way we conduct transfer business.
In honesty, I think redcafe have been very supportive of Moyes.
Most of us are trying to sugar coat the current predicament to his favor.
But honestly, if getting Rooney playing at his level is the only positives so far.... I'm speechless.
Let's not coat it as it is, things aren't positive.
And I personally don't expect alot from Moyes. Just play the team how he wants them to play, even if it takes a few loses to get them playing the way he envision it so be it, it's the price to pay and I guess most of us are writting this season off long before it started.
But currently, he looks totally clueless and just keep on playing the same tactics hoping for luck to go his ways. It doesn't work that ways, you need luck in the Final of the Champions League (1999,2008) but if you need luck on every match you play, that's not part to luck, that's part to incompetence.
It's not the result, nobody here bothers so much about the result, but the performance has been dire and most importantly for me : directionless.
We don't have a clue how we want to play. The Players are clueless, and I suspect the managers are equally clueless
Unless Fabregas' agent was playing us. There was definitely contact between both parties.
Moyes: Fans see bigger picture
"They all understand it (the bigger picture)," said Moyes. "Most of them know exactly. Of course no-one expects Manchester United to lose games, no more so than me, but it is a fact and my job is to make it better."
It is clear Ferguson's exit has had a seismic effect, not only on the United players, who do not seem capable of lifting their game to the level their former boss managed, but also the opposition, for whom the fear factor of visiting Old Trafford has been removed.
Moyes cannot be blamed for this.
He is just working hard to try and ensure he is getting the most from his squad that he possibly can.
"We've got roughly the same squad that was champions last year," he said.
"We've not changed an awful lot in that period.
"I need to make sure I'm getting the best out of the players and we are performing as well as we possibly can.
"I do think we can play better but there were a lot of games last year where Manchester United didn't play particularly well and maybe, in a game like that, sneaked it with a goal."
What was also clearly noticeable on Saturday was that United failed to respond to Yohan Cabaye's opener in the manner most would have imagined.
Instead of hitting their opponents with an avalanche of attacks, the hosts meekly surrendered, despite Moyes' efforts to galvanise his team.
"I tried to chuck the kitchen sink at it," said Moyes.
"I tried to put Antonio (Valencia) on to go without a right-back and get Adnan (Januzaj) to come inside.
"We looked to try to find openings to give us a chance and we nearly put on as many attacking options as we could to try and get them."
(Football365)
He's right except for one thing.....There is no bigger picture to see..
I don't know what exactly we're all supposed to be seeing here except that our style of play this season has been cack.
It's not as if we can all see some sort of new style been implemented and it's taken time...Confused at that one.
He's right about the rest
The bigger picture is that in the summer, this club saw the biggest wave of changes in a short period in its entire history. For a club which strives on stability, the majority of fans understand the scale of impact this could have on the team. Only a select few on here underestimate that.
In honesty, I think redcafe have been very supportive of Moyes.
Most of us are trying to sugar coat the current predicament to his favor.
But honestly, if getting Rooney playing at his level is the only positives so far.... I'm speechless.
Let's not coat it as it is, things aren't positive.
And I personally don't expect alot from Moyes. Just play the team how he wants them to play, even if it takes a few loses to get them playing the way he envision it so be it, it's the price to pay and I guess most of us are writting this season off long before it started.
But currently, he looks totally clueless and just keep on playing the same tactics hoping for luck to go his ways. It doesn't work that ways, you need luck in the Final of the Champions League (1999,2008) but if you need luck on every match you play, that's not part to luck, that's part to incompetence.
It's not the result, nobody here bothers so much about the result, but the performance has been dire and most importantly for me : directionless.
We don't have a clue how we want to play. The Players are clueless, and I suspect the managers are equally clueless
Ah ok.
I assumed it was about implementing a style of play or something and didn't get it
I have to agree with this and add a question.
Many of you say he needs more time but why should time help him when he in his first five month have taken us down to our knees? There is nothing in his current leadership that suggest more time will help him. If he can't implode one positive thing in to the team in five month then something is fundamentally wrong.
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I'll say this again DT.
2. Moyes should knew roughly how much it takes to get baines and or Fellaini, he coached there for 10 years, and probably knew the board more than Gill/Woodward will ever knew.
There was very little chance of it being exciting and fresh without better signings, anything less was always a downgrade considering who was leaving. I blame the club on this more than Moyes.
Don't underestimate what Moyes achieved at Everton. What he achieved there showed many hallmarks of managerial ability. I think Martinez has been fortunate to be handed Lukaku and an emerging Barkley, which has naturally taken the team up a level from what Moyes left behind.
I disagree with you. Another case of a fan who fails to acknowledge the good things he has done. Rooneys form. Januzaj contract. At least acknowledging our CM is weak. Some good performances.
Yes, he has made mistakes and his positive impacts are few and far between. But there have been some. If you can't acknowledge that then you are categorically biased.
In that case maybe we all overestimate what Fergie has achieved at Man Utd, as Moyes was not able to take the team at least the same level from what Fergie left behind.
Come on mate, he must have been a total moron if he doesn't acknowledge that our CM is weak. It was something that anyone can see, so I don't think that this is such a positive. Do we have to give him credit for playing now Carrick as CM? That was such an obvious thing that it was so easy to spot.
Agree about Januzaj, the biggest positive so far IMO. Much has been said for Rooney and while he is playing better than last season, he isn't nowhere near the form of 2009-2010 or the second half of 2010-2011 season. From the good performances I can think of only three, two games against Leverkusen and the game against Fulham. Against Swansea we won with a big score but I don't think it was an impressive performance at all.
Of course there have been some positives but they have been on a middle of an ocean of negative things. Starting from transfers, the results and the most of performances which have been wank. It's time for him either to drastically improve or to feck off. Acnowledging something as obvious that we have no midfield and signing Fellaini to improve that isn't a positive IMO, he made things worse by that.
Obvious to all except our previous manager.
if anything SAF was being a stubborn old git by neglecting our midfield and instead opted to buy good players in other areas to satisfy his short term needs and make up for how poor it was. He's the one who should be taking the blame for the state its currently in. He left Moyes in a terrible position with the midfield.Do you honestly beleve that Sir Alex thought that our midfield was great?
I think it was pretty clear, Sir Alex managed to get results with that midfield. So while he didn't thought that it was great, he didn't rush to sign someone just for the sake of it and make things even worse (Fellaini). He was waiting for a good player to become available and to sign him. Now we can argue if there was a right player available (which I think was) but I doubt that Sir Alex thought that we have a great midfield that doesn't need to get improved.
