Moyes So Far!

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Sky1981 said:
So it's all down to SAF ?

so the difference between SAF and Moyes is 8, probably a more apt manager can reduce the gap.
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Well obviously it's all down to Fergie. How does this surprise people? He managed to squeeze a hell of a lot out of this squad in a way probably only he could. We were always going to take a huge hit when he left. Perhaps some other managers would be able to get more out of the players, perhaps they'd have done better in the transfer window, but as it is Moyes has taken on probably the least enviable, highest pressure job in the history of football management trying to fill SAF's shoes. He needs time to get over the initial "feck me, I'm managing United". If we jump the gun and sack him early on, all we'll do is bring in another manager who'll potentially be under even more pressure.
 
Sky1981 said:
So it's all down to SAF ?

so the difference between SAF and Moyes is 8, probably a more apt manager can reduce the gap.
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Also have to take into account the MAJOR upheavals to our backroom staff including our CEO. Not that im defending Moyes because there is no doubt he should be doing much better than this, but its almost like we are a new club with an entirely new operating team. The only thing that hasn't changed is our players and thats not exactly a good thing in hindsight.
 
Ryan's Beard said:
Well obviously it's all down to Fergie. How does this surprise people? He managed to squeeze a hell of a lot out of this squad in a way probably only he could. We were always going to take a huge hit when he left. Perhaps some other managers would be able to get more out of the players, perhaps they'd have done better in the transfer window, but as it is Moyes has taken on probably the least enviable, highest pressure job in the history of football management trying to fill SAF's shoes. He needs time to get over the initial "feck me, I'm managing United". If we jump the gun and sack him early on, all we'll do is bring in another manager who'll potentially be under even more pressure.
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If that's what's in his mind, i'd rather he go on and manage some team left.

It's not going to be easy, but if the manager of post SAF era can't even have a self believe that he earnt that slot and at least have some sort of confidence in his head... how can the players will respect him?

Mind boggling appointing Phil Neville, some of the squad have played with him in the past, and we can safely says he's inferior to them (hence his move to everton), and can you really picture the likes of them giving a damn about his instruction as coach? mind you he's not proven as coach as well.

He might be able to do a job at lower tableish team due to his vast experience, but honestly, there's not much that neville knows and the rest doesn't, infact they probably knows better.
 
Sky1981 said:
If that's what's in his mind, i'd rather he go on and manage some team left.

It's not going to be easy, but if the manager of post SAF era can't even have a self believe that he earnt that slot and at least have some sort of confidence in his head... how can the players will respect him?

Mind boggling appointing Phil Neville, some of the squad have played with him in the past, and we can safely says he's inferior to them (hence his move to everton), and can you really picture the likes of them giving a damn about his instruction as coach? mind you he's not proven as coach as well.

He might be able to do a job at lower tableish team due to his vast experience, but honestly, there's not much that neville knows and the rest doesn't, infact they probably knows better.
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It would be on any managers' mind. No manager in world football (not even Caf all time favourite Mourinho) would have walked into this job brimming with self confidence. Any manager would feel the expectation and pressure of sitting squarely inside SAF's shadow. Perhaps Moyes' gutting the coaching staff was a mistake. He probably wasn't helped by Gill stepping down. He's certainly not been helped by the state of our midfield. I'm not saying he's done particularly well but given the circumstances it's difficult to say with any certainty who would have done well. He needs time.
 
Ryan's Beard said:
It would be on any managers' mind. No manager in world football (not even Caf all time favourite Mourinho) would have walked into this job brimming with self confidence. Any manager would feel the expectation and pressure of sitting squarely inside SAF's shadow. Perhaps Moyes' gutting the coaching staff was a mistake. He probably wasn't helped by Gill stepping down. He's certainly not been helped by the state of our midfield. I'm not saying he's done particularly well but given the circumstances it's difficult to say with any certainty who would have done well. He needs time.
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Probably, but he hasn't shown anything so far that allays our fear, he still talk like midtable, manage like midtable, even his body language is midtable.

If we're to give time to let the manager learn for 3-4 years while slowly sinking into oblivion, i'd rather we gamble on Ole or Gary, they're much more better than Moyes.
 
Sky1981 said:
Probably, but he hasn't shown anything so far that allays our fear, he still talk like midtable, manage like midtable, even his body language is midtable.

If we're to give time to let the manager learn for 3-4 years while slowly sinking into oblivion, i'd rather we gamble on Ole or Gary, they're much more better than Moyes.
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I very much doubt we'll let it get that bad. If we don't get a reasonable finish this year and at least visible intent to improve the squad and our standing he'll probably be off. The owners won't let Moyes rob them of the Champions' League cash for long before they'll replace him.
 
Swaters16 said:
Not a stick I want to beat Moyes with because I tried to just accept it but bringing every single player back for set-pieces is a disgrace. So many things wrong with it. For a start it means we can never play the ball out because there is no one to pass the ball to. It says, 'hey we're under pressure, we need to defend' and that is not Manchester United.
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Agreed - i made the point the other day that it negates one if de gea's greatest strengths in his distribution - we cant spring an attack. It may be a small detail, but to me, it sums moyes up
 
I really do believe if SAF was in charge, we would be top or a point behind. Would we have dropped points against WBA, Everton, Newcastle and Southampton under him? No way. That is 11 points gained instantly.

A lot of the top teams have flaws in their squad. City have no great defenders besides Kompany. Chelsea have no great strikers and we have no great midfielders. Arsenal have no great strikers too. This is a very poor premier league and Moyes is struggling in it says it all.

The warning signs were there when we were losing to Mickey Mouse teams in pre-season. We didn't even lose under SAF many times during pre-season. Yet we lost about 4 preseason games. We all laughed it off and assumed we'd start taking the league seriously. Sadly that form has carried onto this season.

Moyes moaned about the hard fixtures and now he's made out to look like an idiot. Because now it's changed to transitional period.
 
Ryan's Beard said:
God, it's weird that we're not doing as well so far this season. It's like we've lost the best manager ever, isn't it?
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What a stupid post. You'd think Ferguson was some sort of God reading some of the stuff on this forum taking Sunderland to the league title year after year.

It IS weird that we're playing abysmally ("not as well" is a complete understatement), and Moyes has done a terrible job so far.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
What a stupid post. You'd think Ferguson was some sort of God reading some of the stuff on this forum taking Sunderland to the league title year after year.

It IS weird that we're playing abysmally ("not as well" is a complete understatement), and Moyes has done a terrible job so far.
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This forum is full of people underestimating Fergie's contribution to this team's success. We've known for years the starting XI had glaring problems and we've also known for years that our style of football wasn't great but we'd power on regardless under SAF. Without him those weaknesses are exposed and we're losing or drawing games we'd have salvaged previously.

It isn't weird at all. Anyone expecting us to roll on and have minimal issues was deluded. This was always going to be a shit season. Not as shit as it's gone so far but shit, none the less. Once again, Moyes needs time.
 
Ryan's Beard said:
This forum is full of people underestimating Fergie's contribution to this team's success. We've known for years the starting XI had glaring problems and we've also known for years that our style of football wasn't great but we'd power on regardless under SAF. Without him those weaknesses are exposed and we're losing or drawing games we'd have salvaged previously.

It isn't weird at all. Anyone expecting us to roll on and have minimal issues was deluded. This was always going to be a shit season. Not as shit as it's gone so far but shit, none the less. Once again, Moyes needs time.
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How long? Will you give him 6 years if things don't improve?

In a retrospect, we all laugh at brendan rodgers last season, but at least what he's trying to change is visible for everyone to see, and it bears fruit this season.

I see nothing, nothing, not at all, niente, nothing that indicates things are going to change, unless we believe that suddenly MOyes wakes up one morning and turn into a managerial genious. But bar that, I don't think he can change anything, he never change anything in his 10 years at Everton, he didn't change when he got a different squad altogether from Everton.

If it took him 7 mths and still no visible changes on the field, imagine what 3 years of him will cost
 
He has to finish in the top four though. I'm all for giving Moyes every day of his six years and I sincerely hope that he gets at least that long here, but he does have to finish in the top four or we need to replace him. I'm sure he would admit himself that this is a minimum requirement to buy himself time.
 
Sky1981 said:
How long? Will you give him 6 years if things don't improve?

In a retrospect, we all laugh at brendan rodgers last season, but at least what he's trying to change is visible for everyone to see, and it bears fruit this season.

I see nothing, nothing, not at all, niente, nothing that indicates things are going to change, unless we believe that suddenly MOyes wakes up one morning and turn into a managerial genious. But bar that, I don't think he can change anything, he never change anything in his 10 years at Everton, he didn't change when he got a different squad altogether from Everton.

If it took him 7 mths and still no visible changes on the field, imagine what 3 years of him will cost
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Don't underestimate what Moyes achieved at Everton. What he achieved there showed many hallmarks of managerial ability. I think Martinez has been fortunate to be handed Lukaku and an emerging Barkley, which has naturally taken the team up a level from what Moyes left behind.
 
Sky1981 said:
If that's what's in his mind, i'd rather he go on and manage some team left.

It's not going to be easy, but if the manager of post SAF era can't even have a self believe that he earnt that slot and at least have some sort of confidence in his head... how can the players will respect him?

Mind boggling appointing Phil Neville, some of the squad have played with him in the past, and we can safely says he's inferior to them (hence his move to everton), and can you really picture the likes of them giving a damn about his instruction as coach? mind you he's not proven as coach as well.

He might be able to do a job at lower tableish team due to his vast experience, but honestly, there's not much that neville knows and the rest doesn't, infact they probably knows better.
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So everyone who becomes a coach or manager was a top class player, Phil wasn't awful by the way? No coaches would be good enough for our bunch of spoilt brats then. They need to get over themselves. Some of our players aren't that great either.
 
Sky1981 said:
How long? Will you give him 6 years if things don't improve?

In a retrospect, we all laugh at brendan rodgers last season, but at least what he's trying to change is visible for everyone to see, and it bears fruit this season.

I see nothing, nothing, not at all, niente, nothing that indicates things are going to change, unless we believe that suddenly MOyes wakes up one morning and turn into a managerial genious. But bar that, I don't think he can change anything, he never change anything in his 10 years at Everton, he didn't change when he got a different squad altogether from Everton.

If it took him 7 mths and still no visible changes on the field, imagine what 3 years of him will cost
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Don't be a tit. Of course 6 years without improvement is too long. Didn't I actually say in this very thread that if we don't finish respectably this season with clear headway into improving the squad I'd have him axed?

There's an awful lot of this "philosophy" wank being thrown around now, too. As it stands Moyes doesn't have a handle on the squad, we're not playing well and we're devoid of ideas, we play slow motion, predictable football with a lack of creativity in the middle. Well feck me. That's new, isn't it? Moyes has the players he has and until he sorts that out and starts getting results there's no "direction" or "philosophy" to bother judging. We're as we always were playing with the players we always had. He's fecked up one transfer window (thanks in no small part to Woody, probably). If he manages to sort the squad out and get his own players in to address the weaknesses we've had for years then we can start to see how he's going to set us up for the long haul. If he Travellers it up and we don't progress from where we are now, then we're fecked and so is he.

EDIT: And before anyone brings up the fecking fantastic, drool worthy, Barca-esque football Roberto Jesus Martinez has got Everton playing, have a quiet word with yourself and ask if he'd be doing that at United where every eye in the world is on him. Moyes has caught a lot of flak for playing negative "try not to lose" football and rightfully so, but I'd dare say most managers would prioritise not losing in his position.
 
Sky1981 said:
How long? Will you give him 6 years if things don't improve?

In a retrospect, we all laugh at brendan rodgers last season, but at least what he's trying to change is visible for everyone to see, and it bears fruit this season.

I see nothing, nothing, not at all, niente, nothing that indicates things are going to change, unless we believe that suddenly MOyes wakes up one morning and turn into a managerial genious. But bar that, I don't think he can change anything, he never change anything in his 10 years at Everton, he didn't change when he got a different squad altogether from Everton.

If it took him 7 mths and still no visible changes on the field, imagine what 3 years of him will cost
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You have to at least give him a couple of seasons, if we sack Moyes now we will look stupid as a club, who do you want to come in and replace him. Sir Alex, someone who will be furious with the players for getting his prodigy the sack, it will be partly down to them. Angry with the fans for not giving him the time he requested. Angry that his retirement has been interrupted, when he has been enjoying do things he has always wanted to do.
 
Ryan's Beard said:
Don't be a tit. Of course 6 years without improvement is too long. Didn't I actually say in this very thread that if we don't finish respectably this season with clear headway into improving the squad I'd have him axed?

There's an awful lot of this "philosophy" wank being thrown around now, too. As it stands Moyes doesn't have a handle on the squad, we're not playing well and we're devoid of ideas, we play slow motion, predictable football with a lack of creativity in the middle. Well feck me. That's new, isn't it? Moyes has the players he has and until he sorts that out and starts getting results there's no "direction" or "philosophy" to bother judging. We're as we always were playing with the players we always had. He's fecked up one transfer window (thanks in no small part to Woody, probably). If he manages to sort the squad out and get his own players in to address the weaknesses we've had for years then we can start to see how he's going to set us up for the long haul. If he Travellers it up and we don't progress from where we are now, then we're fecked and so is he.

EDIT: And before anyone brings up the fecking fantastic, drool worthy, Barca-esque football Roberto Jesus Martinez has got Everton playing, have a quiet word with yourself and ask if he'd be doing that at United where every eye in the world is on him. Moyes has caught a lot of flak for playing negative "try not to lose" football and rightfully so, but I'd dare say most managers would prioritise not losing in his position.
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Exactly Martinez was not under any pressure when he took the job, that might come now he has got them into this position and Everton fans will now see them as world beaters. It took some courage to take the United job in the first place, he just has to show that courage when dealing with the players. Kick a few arses Moyes.
 
Sky1981 said:
How long? Will you give him 6 years if things don't improve?

In a retrospect, we all laugh at brendan rodgers last season, but at least what he's trying to change is visible for everyone to see, and it bears fruit this season.

I see nothing, nothing, not at all, niente, nothing that indicates things are going to change, unless we believe that suddenly MOyes wakes up one morning and turn into a managerial genious. But bar that, I don't think he can change anything, he never change anything in his 10 years at Everton, he didn't change when he got a different squad altogether from Everton.

If it took him 7 mths and still no visible changes on the field, imagine what 3 years of him will cost
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This.

Nobody wants to see Moyes fail. Moyes failing means Man Utd fail and nobodoy wants to continue to see records tumble like Newcastle's first win at Old Trafford in X, Everton's in Y, West Brom's in Z.

We're going to Villa Park, United's home away from home, and I have next to no confidence we'll get a result. That's how I feel about this season. Just don't see us achieving anything.

I think we need to look at what happened to Liverpool, as much as we may have mocked them for it, and not make the same mistake they did with Souness: allowing things to drift.

There have been no real changes. Its not as if Moyes has been punished, like Rodgers was, for trying to play out from the back. Its just get it forward, get it wide, cross, repeat and it simply is not working.

I've given up hope of Champions League football and even Europa League football seems a million miles away right now. What I want from Moyes is hope that he knows how to turn things around. If we can at least play well on a sustained basis and he can stop sounding so defeated and so disillusioned I'm in a place where, now, I could swallow a finish in the top 7. Provided that we ended the season playing well enough to anticipate/expect a top 4 finish in 2014/15.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
You have to at least give him a couple of seasons, if we sack Moyes now we will look stupid as a club, who do you want to come in and replace him. Sir Alex, someone who will be furious with the players for getting his prodigy the sack, it will be partly down to them. Angry with the fans for not giving him the time he requested. Angry that his retirement has been interrupted, when he has been enjoying do things he has always wanted to do.
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Look.

We give manager time, we don't sack manager ridiculously, we have a very "reasonable" expectations on Moyes.

But if he gets us less than 4th, he deserve to get sack, if not we're simply not sacking him for the sake of not sacking him.

There's a different with RM and Chelsea, they sack a Trophy winning manager (Luxemburgo, Del Bosque, Ranieri, Di Matteo, even Mourinho over trivial shits), if we indeed sack him, it's rightly so and more than deserved, if any sacking him at the end of the season is already too lenient for the club of our stature.

The only thing that keeps Moyes afloat is Ferguson, and I don't think a living Ferguson will be too happy with Moyes ruining his legacy in such a short time. This is Ferguson, one who demands perfection (or at least give your all and shits)

I can understand if Moyes gets us 4th, 3rd, and suddenly a blip season and we only finish 6th, then he deserves the time. At this rate... we're sinking faster than titanic on ice.

Let me repeat : If we sack him, it's not because we're classless and impatience, it's because he is simply not good enough, and not sacking him just for the sake of being hailed as "a lil bit classier than the rest" at the expense of our performance is a big screw up IMHO
 
Ryan's Beard said:
Don't be a tit. Of course 6 years without improvement is too long. Didn't I actually say in this very thread that if we don't finish respectably this season with clear headway into improving the squad I'd have him axed?

There's an awful lot of this "philosophy" wank being thrown around now, too. As it stands Moyes doesn't have a handle on the squad, we're not playing well and we're devoid of ideas, we play slow motion, predictable football with a lack of creativity in the middle. Well feck me. That's new, isn't it? Moyes has the players he has and until he sorts that out and starts getting results there's no "direction" or "philosophy" to bother judging. We're as we always were playing with the players we always had. He's fecked up one transfer window (thanks in no small part to Woody, probably). If he manages to sort the squad out and get his own players in to address the weaknesses we've had for years then we can start to see how he's going to set us up for the long haul. If he Travellers it up and we don't progress from where we are now, then we're fecked and so is he.

EDIT: And before anyone brings up the fecking fantastic, drool worthy, Barca-esque football Roberto Jesus Martinez has got Everton playing, have a quiet word with yourself and ask if he'd be doing that at United where every eye in the world is on him. Moyes has caught a lot of flak for playing negative "try not to lose" football and rightfully so, but I'd dare say most managers would prioritise not losing in his position.
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SAF didn't get all the player he wanted until his 5th season.

Let's get real, do you expect us to sell half the team and bought another half a team?

He can't even get a fecking midfielder in 5 mths, do you really expect next summer he come up and "finalise" 5 players in?? Even 5 everton players is abit of a daydream.

So when the hell would he get his own players? When we're down in championship?
 
And I don't for once believe that back then Fergie was given time because the boards thought it's a class thing to do.

SAF has earn the benefits of doubt, he took a relegation battle team, transform it from top to toe, and even if it took him 5 years to finally won the league, I believe what he does is visible from the inside, how he revamp the whole mess, that is why the board gave him time. He has earn it.

Do you really think the board back then is a phylanthropist? SAF comes as a pedigree winning the CL with Aberfeckingdeen beating Barcelona, that's equal to us getting Mourinho when he first won with Porto. He did finish 2nd the next season, and save us from relegation, he has shown what he is capable of from the get go. Something Moyes has not shown so far.
 
Where's this 5 players bollocks coming from? Moyes doesn't need a brand new team like Fergie did. He needs a few solid buys to fill in our gaps. Stop being such a moany, pessimistic bastard. We're not going to end up in the fecking championship. Jesus.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
So everyone who becomes a coach or manager was a top class player, Phil wasn't awful by the way? No coaches would be good enough for our bunch of spoilt brats then. They need to get over themselves. Some of our players aren't that great either.
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Nope. But he starts playing football roughly the same as most of our senior players.

Ours got coached by first class coaches longer, ours played in CL and continously reaping medals while Neville playing for Everton.

What makes you think he makes a better coach than Rene or Phelan or even Ole who managed a real football team and won the league with them?

Besides, no. Not everyone who becomes a coach was a top class player, you don't need them. But they start at the bottom, not simply plugged in into Manchester United in transition of its lifetime. we've gambled too much on coaches, Moyes alone is already a gamble, and now we're coached mostly by coach with zero experience in coaching, and a 40 years old player/coach who still plays.

How the hell do you expect Giggs to be unbiased when he has to give review to himself after a bad game? How do you expect Phil to bark orders at Rio knowing just 5 years ago Phil was second best to him and probably learning from him?

Both Phil and Giggs might turns out to be a managerial genious, but it's a risk too much to take at this point.

I can understand if everything is normal and we add 1 of them as newbies to help regeneration, but at this point, we're simply handicapped too much.
 
Sky1981 said:
And I don't for once believe that back then Fergie was given time because the boards thought it's a class thing to do.

SAF has earn the benefits of doubt, he took a relegation battle team, transform it from top to toe, and even if it took him 5 years to finally won the league, I believe what he does is visible from the inside, how he revamp the whole mess, that is why the board gave him time. He has earn it.

Do you really think the board back then is a phylanthropist? SAF comes as a pedigree winning the CL with Aberfeckingdeen beating Barcelona, that's equal to us getting Mourinho when he first won with Porto. He did finish 2nd the next season, and save us from relegation, he has shown what he is capable of from the get go. Something Moyes has not shown so far.
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ECWC and Real Madrid.

Board wanted Fergie gone three times. 1995, 2001 and some few years later....We are no different to any other club
 
Ryan's Beard said:
Where's this 5 players bollocks coming from? Moyes doesn't need a brand new team like Fergie did. He needs a few solid buys to fill in our gaps. Stop being such a moany, pessimistic bastard. We're not going to end up in the fecking championship. Jesus.
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make up your mind?

His players? Or current players +2?

You'd be back with : It's not his players argument 2 years from now.

If you think he doesn't need a brand new team, then he can start working right away mister, which he hasn't been doing a good job
 
People seriously need to get with the times.

Just because Ferguson lasted 26 years doesn't mean our next manager should. Chelsea sacked RDM, when they were like third. They sacked Big Phil when they were fourth. Those are laughable.

Sacking Moyes for not getting 4th would be reasonable. We shouldn't stick with a manger for longevity, if he can't get results.

All the top clubs in Europe would be very close to sacking Moyes, if they were in our position. Even Spurs were beginning to panic over AVB a few weeks ago. In terms of playing staff they in a transitional period with so many players coming in and losing their best player.
 
Big Papi said:
after 15 or so matches:

[Season] [Pos] [Pts+/-] [Fin. Posn]
2013/14 9th -13 Fin. ?
2012/13 1st +3 Fin. 1st
2011/12 2nd -2 Fin. 2nd
2010/11 1st +2 Fin. 1st
2009/10 2nd -2 Fin. 2nd
2008/09 3rd -6 Fin. 1st
2007/08 2nd -1 Fin. 1st
2006/07 1st +6 Fin. 1st
2005/06 3rd -12 Fin. 2nd
2004/05 4th -9 Fin. 3rd
2003/04 3rd -2 Fin. 3rd
2002/03 4th -6 Fin. 1st
2001/02 5th -9 Fin. 3rd
2000/01 1st +8 Fin. 1st
1999/00 1st up1 Fin. 1st
1998/99 2nd -1 Fin. 1st
1997/98 1st +3 Fin. 2nd
1996/97 5th -5 Fin. 1st
1995/96 2nd -4 Fin. 1st
1994/95 1st up1 Fin. 2nd
1993/94 1st +11 Fin. 1st
1992/93 10th -9 Fin. 1st

For me, this feels most like 2002. United were stuttering their way through the early- to mid-season, when O'Shea started producing good performances, despite defeats. Then on Dec 12th, after a 0-1 home defeat (Dec8th), a Dutch striker went on an 9-match (8PL, 1FAC) scoring run. This brought United to first place. I'm not saying this will be replicated but there is hope for recovery. Moyes needs to start becoming the boss.
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We were ninth after 15 games with 21 points in 2001/02 - that was the season when the players thought Fergie would be retiring at the end. We picked up our form after he made his U-turn.

http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2001-2002/table/2001-12-09 - this is how the table looked like exactly twelve years ago. After this we won our next 8 league games and 12 out of the next 13 to get back into contention. Will the current side produce something similar? It looks unlikely but here's hoping. The similarities are certainly there; we might even call Fellaini the new Verón.
 
Siorac said:
We were ninth after 15 games with 21 points in 2001/02 - that was the season when the players thought Fergie would be retiring at the end. We picked up our form after he made his U-turn.
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Yep, and it shows that even the potential of no Fergie crippled Fergie, so why can people not see what it would to to a mortal?
 
Sky1981 said:
make up your mind?

His players? Or current players +2?

You'd be back with : It's not his players argument 2 years from now.

If you think he doesn't need a brand new team, then he can start working right away mister, which he hasn't been doing a good job
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Jesus wept. We've needed one or two solid players for about 3 years. Do you even follow United? He doesn't need a brand new XI, he needs to address the issues we've had for ages.
 
moses said:
Yep, and it shows that even the potential of no Fergie crippled Fergie, so why can people not see what it would to to a mortal?
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Fair enough - though a little bit of research tells me my memory is slightly off as Fergie only started negotiating with the club in February 2002 when the team was already back in form. So he DID turn it around before the players knew he would stay on.

Failing to integrate Verón and selling Stam had a lot to do with the poor start that season, even if his retirement announcement definitely played a part as well.
 
Siorac said:
We were ninth after 15 games with 21 points in 2001/02 - that was the season when the players thought Fergie would be retiring at the end. We picked up our form after he made his U-turn.

http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2001-2002/table/2001-12-09 - this is how the table looked like exactly twelve years ago. After this we won our next 8 league games and 12 out of the next 13 to get back into contention. Will the current side produce something similar? It looks unlikely but here's hoping. The similarities are certainly there; we might even call Fellaini the new Verón.
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I did say "15 or so" games. Your figures were from the week before.
 
Ryan's Beard said:
Jesus wept. We've needed one or two solid players for about 3 years. Do you even follow United? He doesn't need a brand new XI, he needs to address the issues we've had for ages.
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As you say we don't need a whole team, he needs to decide on the CB's, is he going to bring in Jones and Smalling to platoon at CB with Evans and get bedded in there. We definitely need a LB and he was trying to get Baines. It's not his fault we have an idiot for a CEO, a couple of midfielders and get Zaha into this side , he can't be worse than we already have. 3-4 players would do it. It is the midfield that is the priority in January. If he can get the midfield sorted that will help the defence as well as they might get more protection.
 
Ryan's Beard said:
Jesus wept. We've needed one or two solid players for about 3 years. Do you even follow United? He doesn't need a brand new XI, he needs to address the issues we've had for ages.
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Well... he spent 27.5M on a player he coached for years, and still he doesn't know how to play him.

We never expected him to be a Fabregas. But at the moment, I don't think Moyes know how he'll feature on this squad other than having him as an option to hoof it forward when things go tits.

And that's supposed to be his main signing, basically, he spent shitloads of money for an utility players that he doesn't know what to do with. If you need a fecking tall man, get a striker. You don't fecking buy a midfielder to be put as a striker full time.
 
Siorac said:
Fair enough - though a little bit of research tells me my memory is slightly off as Fergie only started negotiating with the club in February 2002 when the team was already back in form. So he DID turn it around before the players knew he would stay on.

Failing to integrate Verón and selling Stam had a lot to do with the poor start that season, even if his retirement announcement definitely played a part as well.
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February, so that's 3 more months for Moyes to do what the great man did? I don't for one second think we'll bounce back the way we did that season, but the comparison is important.
 
Sky1981 said:
Well... he spent 27.5M on a player he coached for years, and still he doesn't know how to play him.
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Moyes may have to take some blame for actually signing a player, if that is an issue, but the fact that Fellaini is taking time to settle is more the issue with his poor form. People are willing to blame Moyes for everything, except anything positive, like Rooney's form, even that is being spun on here as a Moyes weakness.
 
Ryan's Beard said:
This forum is full of people underestimating Fergie's contribution to this team's success. We've known for years the starting XI had glaring problems and we've also known for years that our style of football wasn't great but we'd power on regardless under SAF. Without him those weaknesses are exposed and we're losing or drawing games we'd have salvaged previously.

It isn't weird at all. Anyone expecting us to roll on and have minimal issues was deluded. This was always going to be a shit season. Not as shit as it's gone so far but shit, none the less. Once again, Moyes needs time.
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I've not seen Ferguson's influence underrated here at all. I have seen plenty underrate the quality of our squad. He was both a great manager and they are great players. The picture some are painting of him being a God-like manager who dragged a team that they make sound as good as Sunderland to title after title is frankly, rubbish.

It is weird. This season was always going to be "different" and "difficult" and could have been "exciting" and "fresh" too. Instead it's began being "shit" and has become "abysmal".

Putting words in inverted commas is fun.
 
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