This. Also a player playing well enough will not be concerned whether Moyes names his team 2 days in advance or 2 hours. It's the out of form and less arsey ones (cough Rio cough) that will be "losing their minds".
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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It's not unreasonable no, but it's not unrealistic either to think that he should have put his own stamp on the team, is it? He had plenty of time to assess the squad, in fact he was quite quickly able to establish that we needed too strengthen certain areas. I'd imagine the only reason he didn't get rid of certain players is due to the disastrous transfer window.
You make it sound like he had no choice but to keep them, he had, as I said he mentioned several times that we needed to strengthen, therefore he must have known who are weaker players were.
I agree, last season Everton was his main priority and he rightly gave all his attention to them until the final kick of the season. However he should have started assessing the team at the end of last season, he went on holiday until the 1st July instead, fair enough he's entitled to a break like the rest of us, saying that if I had just got the biggest job in world football I would want to start straight away.
Again I agree, it was never going to be easy for him, and that's why I'd like him to be given more time, but that doesn't mean Moyes shouldn't be criticised when he makes errors or we have poor performances.
I just hope he learns from his mistakes.
What I'm saying is that clearing out deadwood, shipping out players who aren't really suited to your system/philosophy, replacing these - all this takes time. It's not like you can press a "release" button and be done with it. Which is yet another reason he needs...time. Clearing out, replacing, putting his stamp on the team - it's something he must do over the next couple of transfer windows. If he fails to get in the right players, hangs on to players who clearly should be moved on, fails to put his stamp on the team - well, then it's clear cut. He goes. But if we're to give him a fair crack, we can't assess him properly until he's had a chance to do all these things.
Within reason, obviously. The squad isn't Championship quality. If we linger around 10th come May, still looking disjointed and bereft of both fighting spirit and ideas - well, serious questions should be asked.
Within reason, obviously. The squad isn't Championship quality. If we linger around 10th come May, still looking disjointed and bereft of both fighting spirit and ideas - well, serious questions should be asked.
Glory hunters are not that patient....
I used to read the printed fanzines regularly for the humour. I don't know if they're less funny, or I've become jaded, could easily be the latter of course.
As for the rumours in them, there may very occasionally be one that is broken in a fanzine before it is in the mainstream press (although it would have to be by someone too stupid to know the monetary value of such information), but to wade through the mountains of shite rumours just to find a real one must take the patience of a saint.
So people who don't trust David Moyes to completely overhaul the squad are glory hunters now? terrible logic.
No..I m referring to those who started slating him even before he started... Then there are also those who pretend that by right we shall win every game with a convincing score...not to mention the fan boys who pretend that Moyes signs their favourite player..
9 million on James Beattie
9 million on Andy Van Der Meyde
11 million on Andy Johnson
16 million on Yakubu
10 million on Bilyaletindov
A combined sum of 48 million on Fellaini
I don't trust him with transfers and this myth about how he spent feck all at Everton needs to stop....Just look at some of them fees and some of them players
There's a difference between not trusting him to do it and flat our refuse him the chance of doing it, though. But therein lies the thing itself when it comes to the climate here at the moment: If you're 100% convinced Moyes is out of his depth, there are no arguments available that can sway your opinion. There's no sense in saying "don't worry, it's just delayed" to the bloke at the bus stop who is convinced the bus has already passed.
Fellaini was excellent for Everton. Has he suddenly been considered poor for them?
The yak did well for them, Johnson was a good little player but injury ravaged Bily and van der Meyde both came with good reputations.
What about Howard, Distin, Baines, Jagielka, Pieenar, Cahill, Lescott etc...
In general Moyes was very good in the transfer market
I never rated Fellaini.
But be that as it may, look up some of his tranfers and the money he spent. I can't get my head around the whole "ah brave David Moyes working with peanuts at Everton"
He splashed a lot of cash
Give us some examples will you because Everton are one of the most broke clubs in the league.
They sold Arteta to balance to the books, basically.
EDIT: Sorry yeah I see them listed above now.
When people aren't sure about someone they look at the bad transfers not all the good buys he made. If we are going down that road, there would be a list of bad transfers Sir Alex has made as long as your arm. All managers make good and bad signings. It's the quality of the good buys that matter.
You're ignoring the plethora of good signings he made not to mention the fact Fellaini was brilliant for them and the Yak was quite good.
Oviedo is just the latest who appears to have been a good signing by Moyes.
I didn't think Fellaini was all that being honest. Yakubu, 16 million though? He was never worth that.
Yeah he made some great signings for them. I wouldn't take that away but there was just as many awful ones
Name a manager who has not made an awful signing or two
Missing my point.
I'm reading, not just here, but for years about how Moyes is such a whizz kid in the market. That he somehow worked with peanuts and worked miracles with the players he bought. About how he never had any money..
Just look at some of the fees he splashed on players and you question where the hell this myth came from
EDIT: Even if he was top of the league right now, I would still question it
You could make a list like that for every single manager. Including your Ferguson's, Wenger's and Mourihno's.
Net spend is a difficult concept, ain't it?
We can judge Moyes on ONE signing for United, and that's been a fecking disaster.
Moyes' management/coaching of the existing players has been poor, to say the least. I don't think one can defend him at all based on results.
Moyes' management/coaching of the existing players has been poor, to say the least. I don't think one can defend him at all based on results.
If we go down the infamous net spend route, he did remarkably well for Everton - that, at least, is obvious. They spent a pittance net over ten years, all the while accumulating the 5th highest points total in the PL in the same period. There's a reason why people regard him as a very good allround manager.
So does he get any leaway for the result against Everton considering a full strength Arsenal in great form could only manage a home draw against them?
just a shame we gave up the chance of points the last 2 games, having seen City, Chelsea and Arsenal drop points this weekend!
Weekend's over. Eight points off second doesn't sound as bad as seven points off fourth. Come on Moyes, get us on that winning run we've all been waiting for since the City game.
And I m not trusting you with the figures...
Van Der Meyde cost 2 million (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/e/everton/4186870.stm)
Beattie cost 6 million and was sold for 4 million;
Andy Johnson was signed for 8.6 million and sold for an undisclosed fee (some say it was 10.5 million)
Yakubu was signed for 11.25 million and sold for undisclosed
Bilyaletindov was signed for 9 million (he was recommended by Gus hiddink!) and sold for undisclosed rumoured to be close to 5 million.
Fellaini signed for 15 million and sold for 27 million.
I got most of the info from bbc links through wikipedia.
And I m not trusting you with the figures...
Van Der Meyde cost 2 million (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/e/everton/4186870.stm)
Beattie cost 6 million and was sold for 4 million;
Andy Johnson was signed for 8.6 million and sold for an undisclosed fee (some say it was 10.5 million)
Yakubu was signed for 11.25 million and sold for undisclosed
Bilyaletindov was signed for 9 million (he was recommended by Gus hiddink!) and sold for undisclosed rumoured to be close to 5 million.
Fellaini signed for 15 million and sold for 27 million.
I got most of the info from bbc links through wikipedia.
I got them off a different website...I didn't pull them from the sky
True, but I'd suggest that Moyes doesn't have much to lose at this point. Rio needs to be sent packing for practical reasons (he just isn't good enough,) so this could allow Moyes to kill two birds with one stone: get rid of an aging under performer; stamp his authority on the squad.
No. Because the last four games in the league, we been piss poor.
Let's not drop our standards and think losing to Everton is acceptable because Arsenal drew against them.
Aye it doesn't considering we've got the easier games coming up as well. Better fecking make the most of the opportunity
While at the moment, my already small faith on Moyes is becoming more void every day, I understand and respect this opinion.
However my point was on this 3 kind of posts I am seeing here:
1) Could have Fergie done better with this team?
I think that clearly the answer is YES. Fergie had this team last year and we did much better than this season. I don't see how someone can even make this question.
2) Could someone else do better with this team?
While this is impossible to prove, I think that still the answer is easily YES. We have seen what other managers do with other teams, and we are seeing the likes of Pellegrini and Mourinho who while not great have made a very good start. I think that here the better question would be 'could someone else do worse with this team'. As I have said before, we have only 3 points more than Hodgson with Liverpool at this point. It is a bit shocking, isn't it? Especially considering that Hodgson had a far worse team
3) We are not doing great.
I think that this is a bit looking things better than they are. English isn't my native language, but I think that there is a big difference from 'not doing great' and 'doing awful'. Chelsea and City are not doing great, we are far worse than not doing great. I think that saying that 'Moyes is not doing great' is saying like 'Pep is not doing that bad'.
My last post was for these kind of posts, which I think are more lying themselves than anything else. The argument if Miyes should be sacked yet or not is something different. I think that we can all judge Moyes to have catastrophically underperformed but still be okay with him as manager because it is too early to get such a radical decision as sacking.
I got them off a different website...I didn't pull them from the sky
For fairness sake, you should have also included the proceeds from sale and the picture would have certainly look less bad. for example he managed to make a profit or break-even from Andy Johnson transfers.
Arsenal this time last season were 10th, 15 points behind the leaders. Just as well they sacked Wenger..
Everton are struggling with their own transition aren't they.....
No talk of it being difficult for them. They are infinitely better than last season. Forget lukaku, the players Moyes had at his disposal are playing on a different level
No talk of it being difficult for them. They are infinitely better than last season. Forget lukaku, the players Moyes had at his disposal are playing on a different level
Where did I say it's acceptable?
I'm asking if maybe the result doesn't look as bad in hindsight given we're missing a lot of key players.
I also didn't say anything about the performance.
Seems like we've been saying this for months now! Rest of the December is crucial, get to within touching distance of the Champions League places and we'll find it much more easier to attract players we need to strengthen.
Our next four games should and must be 12 points. Villa away, West Ham home, Hull and Norwich away.
All our games apart from Arsenal and Spurs since the City game are the ones we were expected to win in. Let's hope we do win the next four.
Still no. We were missing Carrick and RVP and that's not a lot. Our squad should cope with that.
Carrick didn't even play against Everton at home last season and we won. And it is bad because we lost.
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