I don't understand this comments, nothing personal against you Rossi but do you seriously believe that a United supporter wants him to fail? I speak for myself but in every game we play bad I going true a hell with nervous break downs and bad temper. No way I want us to lose. Even my kids are frustrated and angry because of our downfall. Criticizing a manager is nothing personal, just a way to ventilate our frustration.I never liked Moyes even when he was Everton...But wishing he'd fail and that we lose is ridiculous.
Bloody hell
I don't understand this comments, nothing personal against you Rossi but do you seriously believe that a United supporter wants him to fail? I speak for myself but in every game we play bad I going true a hell with nervous break downs and bad temper. No way I want us to lose. Even my kids are frustrated and angry because of our downfall. Criticizing a manager is nothing personal, just a way to ventilate our frustration.
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What about the effect Fergie's announcing his retirement had in 2001/02? Were you a United fan then? Were the poor results then Moyes' fault too? Or was it just the idea of a retirement?
Anyone who compares this to Everton doesn't understand the scale of United, I stand by that. And you can't be precious on one hand and then call someone a fecking tool.
What about the effect Fergie's announcing his retirement had in 2001/02? Were you a United fan then? Were the poor results then Moyes' fault too? Or was it just the idea of a retirement?
Anyone who compares this to Everton doesn't understand the scale of United, I stand by that. And you can't be precious on one hand and then call someone a fecking tool.
On that note, why is it impossible for us to just discuss this issue, rather than taking stands and calling each other childish names?
Honestly, if you were face-to-face with a fellow United fan discussing this, would the conversation quickly descend into name-calling? Or would you respond withs something along the lines of 'I don't agree with that. Here's why….' I suspect it would be the latter, so why don't we aim for similar maturity/decorum online?
a) How do you "create" the luck of Lionel Messi and then the German team captain missing penalties against you?
b) Short term improvements are no good for us. You can get away with turfing your manager out the door every year if you can go and spend £100m on a whim every so often. We can't. The most succesful model United have to base themselves on other than their own under Fergie, is Wenger at Arsenal. Arsenal fans like going on about how Wenger should be sacked a lot as well.
This idea that Moyes would be sacked and then you'd settle down and be happy with the next guy is proven farcicle by the behaviour of basically every set of football fans, ever.
Honestly he and a few other posters aren't worth even trying to discuss with. They hate Moyes but will claim they don't and think that that shields the truth. I have no quarms with people who dislike Moyes as everyone is entitled to an opinion but some people, Lonely included, will jump on anything to try and make their point about Moyes. They'll stay silent about what he does well. And they'll act as if they are more intelligent. They show no objectivity and it's just frustrating and detracting from the point and fun on here.
Well you responded like a tool so i ain't letting that slide. If you want to act like a keyboard gangster then go ahead.
Of course i was a Utd fan then, and yes there was a huge impact as expected. Youre still not grasping my point - most would have expected a dip from both Everton and Utd given significance of change within the club. Yes ours is bigger but Moyes leaving Everton was still significant to that club.
Unless that is directed at me, I don't know. People are passionate about the club. If it is directed at me, I think anyone who compares the transition at Everton to the transition at United simply doesn't understand the scale of the task here. I can't state it and more delicately.
Unless that is directed at me, I don't know. People are passionate about the club. If it is directed at me, I think anyone who compares the transition at Everton to the transition at United simply doesn't understand the scale of the task here. I can't state it and more delicately.
No, most wouldn't have expected a dip at Everton. You are wrong there. Statistically teams do better when they change manager, been proven, then they level out. That's ordinarily. Our situation is can not be classed as 'ordinarily' by any stretch of anyone's imagination, which you obviously don't understand, if that makes me a tool, then fine.
My god - im not comparing the 2! Yes ours is bigger - i agree with you. All im saying is theyve handled their own significant change well and curious as to how.
from a Everton players/staff perspective, they have went through as big a transition as we have yet have reacted differently.
Our downfall? That's a bit premature.
And criticism is all well and good, but it has to be measured and warranted and in context or else it just adds to the massive pressure the man is already under and thus makes it harder to turn around this massive ship.
Sorry about that. I did wonder after posting if the 'you' might have seemed targeted at you (Moses). It was a general 'you' directed at those who turn to insults.
Boo fecking Hoo. He knew how hard it would be and what the expectations at this club are. If he can't handle it he can leave. The fans so far have been great with him. At any other club after winning titles for titles, performances like the ones of this season would not only turn the fans against you but probably get you sacked. I can understand fans slowly getting frustrated with him.
Give him 2 seasons though. If the next one is as shit as this one he has to go. He will have another whole summer for signing the players he really wants.
Youre talking fecking tripe. The question im posing isn't even about moyes - im geuinely interested in how they have handled their own transition. Im not comparing it to us. All im saying is theyve handled it remarkably well.
Im capable of being objective on Moyes while disliking him.
I don't understand this comments, nothing personal against you Rossi but do you seriously believe that a United supporter wants him to fail? I speak for myself but in every game we play bad I going true a hell with nervous break downs and bad temper. No way I want us to lose. Even my kids are frustrated and angry because of our downfall. Criticizing a manager is nothing personal, just a way to ventilate our frustration.
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I was in a pub last night and folk we're blaming Moyes on fans leaving Old Trafford early. Like that never happened before. Now I'm reading here that him keeping his cool is cringeworthy. Yes the team are playing like old ladies but for feck sake.
The people who left early were probably the same ones who always leave early. They would have left if we were winning.
My god - im not comparing the 2! Yes ours is bigger - i agree with you. All im saying is theyve handled their own significant change well and curious as to how.
They have far lower expectations there, they had a good season last year with a settled side and vast improvement in players like Coleman and Mirallas. They finally got a goalscorer which they have lacked for years and Barkley matured after his loan spell. Results have been good and they are playing with confidence without half the scrutiny and pressure involved at United. It's a totally different beast and incomparable, which you seem to fail to understand.
New style of play. Teams don't know what their weakness is but they'll be figured out.
Our weakness is well known because it's existed now for 3 years. And with Carrick out, it's dreadfully obvious. Pressure United in the midfield and you win.
Plus, Everton are playing for nothing. Zero expectations.
Wasn't talking about your latest ingenious post. Was talking about your posting in general.
And evidence suggests you are not capable, irrespective of however high an esteem you hold yourself in.
It's the classic "United are in crisis" angle the press love to take. The shots of the fans leaving, Rio chuckling, Fellaini texting, frustrated faces in the crowd; these are all things you'd probably get every home game but are magnified now that we're not doing too well.
I expect that from the media, and I also expect it to used as a stick by oppo fans, but jesus, I saw Fellaini slated on here for looking at his phone.
I expect that from the media, and I also expect it to used as a stick by oppo fans, but jesus, I saw Fellaini slated on here for looking at his phone.
Martinez is lucky that Lukaku dropped in his lap and isn't Jose regretting it. If Moyes had when he was there he might have been up there as well.
I know what you're saying but everyone saying transition for us is a problem - Everton are going through the same change yet have reacted completely differently. One team is liberated, the other looks shot
I hope we don't and he just goes!! The guy is a good manager he just has the wrong philosophy for this club and the players we have.
This isn't a reasonable argument at all. Martínez and Everton obviously worked hard to secure Lukaku. Amongst United's failed transfer dealings in the summer, we couldn't even complete a loan deal for a Real Madrid backup player in Coentrão.
And it's really foolish to suggest Moyes would be producing the same results as Martínez has at Everton. For one, he's never shown anything near resembling the bravery Martínez has against top sides, neither as manager of Everton or Manchester United. Pressure and other such terms used to excuse Moyes are really poor, there is enough quality in the United squad for results and performances to be significantly better. Moyes has indeed crumbled under the pressure of being manager of Manchester United, but managers with a progressive playing style and fearless approach exude confidence and earn the faith from their players. Moyes has failed to do this, and has taken a side believing they can win in any circumstance, to one of cowardice, zero belief, and complete and utter disjointedness.
Martinez is lucky that Lukaku dropped in his lap and isn't Jose regretting it. If Moyes had him when he was there he might have been up there as well.
This rarely happens but I agree with you.This isn't a reasonable argument at all. Martínez and Everton obviously worked hard to secure Lukaku. Amongst United's failed transfer dealings in the summer, we couldn't even complete a loan deal for a Real Madrid backup player in Coentrão.
And it's really foolish to suggest Moyes would be producing the same results as Martínez has at Everton. For one, he's never shown anything near resembling the bravery Martínez has against top sides, neither as manager of Everton or Manchester United. Pressure and other such terms used to excuse Moyes are really poor, there is enough quality in the United squad for results and performances to be significantly better. Moyes has indeed crumbled under the pressure of being manager of Manchester United, but managers with a progressive playing style and fearless approach exude confidence and earn the faith from their players. Moyes has failed to do this, and has taken a side believing they can win in any circumstance, to one of cowardice, zero belief, and complete and utter disjointedness.
Just cause we don't agree doesn't mean im incapable of such objectivity. Id say there was a fair split in opinion on Moyes so interesting why your having a go at me.
High esteem? Im not even going to get roped into this with you. We disagree - its that simple. You seem to be of the opinion people disagreeing with you means they are incapable of objectivity.
Do i like Moyes? No. Do i want him out purely cause i don't like him? Don't be fecking ridiculous. I want him to prove me wrong. I want us to succeed. Unfortunately, i don't share the same belief that you do on him getting it right.
Fair enough. I was wrong to single you out and I apologise. Just frustrated. And whenever there is something that could be pinned to Moyes, anything at all, I often see you as one of the first posters which is why I picked on you, which isn't fair.
For the record we don't entirely disagree. I agree with you that right now, Moyes looks way out of his depth and my faith is dwindling. I agree he has made some big big errors. I just(
1) Don't like how some are laying it all at his feet. Every single person at our club is responsible. And that includes us fans too.
2) don't like how people have given up. On the team and on him. Yes people don't think he is capable but want him to succeed, but there needs to be an appreciation that this contributes to the pressure on the team and Moyes.
3) Think that if we go down the road of blaming Moyes, it becomes slippery because it may create a misconception that replacing him will solve our problems. Unfortunately I don't think it's as simple as that and although a lot of this does lay at Moyes' feet, there are other issues which also need addressing.
Fair enough. I was wrong to single you out and I apologise. Just frustrated. And whenever there is something that could be pinned to Moyes, anything at all, I often see you as one of the first posters which is why I picked on you, which isn't fair.
For the record we don't entirely disagree. I agree with you that right now, Moyes looks way out of his depth and my faith is dwindling. I agree he has made some big big errors. I just(
1) Don't like how some are laying it all at his feet. Every single person at our club is responsible. And that includes us fans too.
2) don't like how people have given up. On the team and on him. Yes people don't think he is capable but want him to succeed, but there needs to be an appreciation that this contributes to the pressure on the team and Moyes.
3) Think that if we go down the road of blaming Moyes, it becomes slippery because it may create a misconception that replacing him will solve our problems. Unfortunately I don't think it's as simple as that and although a lot of this does lay at Moyes' feet, there are other issues which also need addressing.
All I'm getting at is give him time. This is a massive transition and unfortunately our squad is also in a position of transition. Without time no one will succeed here. Everyone will make mistakes.
We are in agreement that its not all his fault. This is worst Utd midfield in 40 years and SAF has to take a fair amount of responsibility for not strengthening. The glazers have a lot to answer for of course.
Not really. It isn't even the worst United squad of last ten years, IMO (2004-2006 was far worse). Our midfield is a bit shit, but the worst United squad of 40 years?
