Moyes So Far!

Status
Not open for further replies.
Loon said:
Ferguson will ensure Moyes keeps his job no matter what happens this season. It's tough to believe at the moment, but I still hope Moyes is the final Ferguson masterstroke.
Click to expand...

We all do. With Ferguson, you always expected a response after a tough week or a bad result, and sadly we haven't seen any from the team apart from the game against Arsenal. Let's hope we start to build up some momentum over Christmas, otherwise I fear for Moyes's job, I really do. There's only so much time that Ferguson's backing can buy him, anywhere else and he would have been gone by now.
 
so its the new excuse - transition?

All I see is us going from poor to worse.

His statements we can still push for the title are as empty as his trophy cabinet.

I was all for giving him to the end of the season but post Christmas if we are still in mid table he has to go.

Some people will buy any rubbish excuse as they have already accepted lower expectations post Fergie -so defeatist.

Personally I thought a new manager would kick us on and address the blindingly obvious weakness in midfield.
 
noodlehair said:
The idea that getting rid of Moyes would magically fix either of these problems is panicky and stupid. Whover came in would need as much time as he will, except they'd be starting again, so in six months you'd all be in here whining again.
Click to expand...
I agree with you, getting rid of the manager is hardly going to kick on our season and have us finish in the top 2, we've had the same problems for a while now but seeing how inept he appears to be (not knowing how best to use players or to motivate them) makes me wonder if he is the right man to take us forward. Hence why when people say we should let him put his own footprint on the club I shudder to think what kinds of players he would bring in... Also how many of his own players are we realistically going to let him bring in until we can say "Ok now its his team lets see how it goes". There are plenty of managers in Europe who have been given a team and told to work with them, why is Moyes so special that we need to give him time to get his own players in and judge him on that?

I don't for a second believe our team is bad as some on here are making out, its not perfect but it should still be able to make the top four with ease (something I doubt at the moment).

This whole thing for me stunk of "lets get someone who could maintain what SAF did" opposed to "lets shake things up bring a guy with fresh new ideas". I could be wrong here, Moyes could be doing a lot behind the scenes but all I see is poor results on the pitch and a group of players who have lost that winning at all cost mentality, take yesterday we had 30 minutes to get a goal but we just didn't look up for it after we lost the goal and that's worrying.
 
Loon said:
Ferguson will ensure Moyes keeps his job no matter what happens this season. It's tough to believe at the moment, but I still hope Moyes is the final Ferguson masterstroke.
Click to expand...

SAF will not be able to do a thing. If glazers decide its time up then he will be gone.

You really shouldn't place too much faith in this whole "chosen one" stuff. It's massively overstated and nothing but a way for the club to PR Moyes
 
Dominos said:
We had a far better team than Real Madrid, 6 months ago, by your own admission.

The idea that Mourinho would be having the same issues is presumptuous at best. For a start he hasn't made Chelsea worse, at their current rate in the league they'd better last season's points total, and he got them out the CL group stages, which they couldn't manage last season. He also took over a worse team than what Moyes did, and actually has them near the top of the table.

It's not all down to the players. Managers would have such a miniscule role if that was the case. We've seen countless times a new manager come into a club and spark an instant improvement in the team.
Click to expand...

I never said we had a far better team than them so that's a daft point.

I did say we were better than them over the two legs and should have been less worried about their players and just gone at them. Partly because, to be honest, Mourinho had lost the plot by that stage and had them playing like complete and utter shite. Look what Dortmund did to them.

He was given a far easier CL group and I don't think their league position is hugely different from last season. The main things he's done are waste a load of time trying to sign Rooney, and turn Mata from one of the best players in the league to a barely useful squad player. That and spend about an hour each week talking utter drivel to Jeoff Shreeves for some reason. He's hardly been inspiring.

The Mourinho obsession on here is utterly pathetic. Even if he was flying with Chelsea, he's not our manager, so just get over it. People invent non sensicle reasons to criticise our own manager, then cry that it's unfair when justified criticisms are aimed at Mourinho. It's fecking embarassing to witness.

ANd yes, there's countless times a manager comes in and makes an instant, short term improvement, and then pretty much invariably, the next season, or even later the same season, he gets sacked because it turns out he's no better than the previous guy. Many teams that perform this ritual also like to do things such as get relegated, or sell their best players every year.
 
Sarni said:
Nah, he should get at least until the end of season. If we go on a good run and finish 4th he should get another season because that'd mean he's starting to get things right (right now it's going to require a massive run of form for us to get into the Champions League). If we carry on at this rate though we'll end up 6th or 7th at best and in this case he ought to go.

I doubt anyone at the club expected things to be this bad. We've basically turned into a Fulham level team.
Click to expand...

The club need to back him in January, if they want to keep him on. Without signings he will continue to struggle with this midfield.
 
Bestie07 said:
We all do. With Ferguson, you always expected a response after a tough week or a bad result, and sadly we haven't seen any from the team apart from the game against Arsenal. Let's hope we start to build up some momentum over Christmas, otherwise I fear for Moyes's job, I really do. There's only so much time that Ferguson's backing can buy him, anywhere else and he would have been gone by now.
Click to expand...

I think Moyes should bin the humble nice guy number and start tearing into a few people. Get angry!
 
On RvP yesterday:

“I was due to take him (RVP) off after 60-70 minutes but if I’d taken him off everybody would have said ‘what are you doing?’ but in truth, Robin needed to come off after 70 minutes maximum. I had to keep him on, we were chasing the game and I had to get a goal back.”

Speaks volumes about the pressure he is feeling atm. I don't think he should have said that, a strong leader wouldn't show he cares about what people say.
 
Ryan's Beard said:
People keep bringing this up, neglecting to take note of the fact that doing well at Everton is not the same as doing well at United. Yes Martinez has come in and shook things up at Everton but let's face it there's feck all pressure to do well there. There's nothing to say that if he came here he'd be able to instill any sort of new "philosophy" or anything at United, he could be doing just as badly as Moyes is, he could do even worse. Moyes has found himself in a rather unique and rather unfortunate situation, there's hardly any parallels or comparisons we can fairly draw.
Click to expand...

Those players has been playing at a club run by Moyes for a long time. Playing his way. They have little trouble adapting to a totally different style of football. Is that only possible because there is no pressure to do well? Rubbish.
 
Bestie07 said:
We all do. With Ferguson, you always expected a response after a tough week or a bad result, and sadly we haven't seen any from the team apart from the game against Arsenal. Let's hope we start to build up some momentum over Christmas, otherwise I fear for Moyes's job, I really do. There's only so much time that Ferguson's backing can buy him, anywhere else and he would have been gone by now.
Click to expand...

You're right that anywhere else and he would be gone. The Hodgson comparison is interesting - did he take more points? Most believed he would get time.

I can't see it getting better for him. The pressure is only going to mount.
 
At least we have seen Moyes prove or succeed before, so there's hope. He'll turn it around. Although succeed is very relative. It's just the process is painful. And we might have patience, but some of the "stars" don't . And then Moyes will be in a deep stinky brown stuff. If he thinks it's hard on the market shopping , he'll find out its even harder to keep certain someones here

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
 
Diabo_Sam said:
On RvP yesterday:

“I was due to take him (RVP) off after 60-70 minutes but if I’d taken him off everybody would have said ‘what are you doing?’ but in truth, Robin needed to come off after 70 minutes maximum. I had to keep him on, we were chasing the game and I had to get a goal back.”

Speaks volumes about the pressure he is feeling atm. I don't think he should have said that, a strong leader wouldn't show he cares about what people say.
Click to expand...

This is the most worrying bit. It's risking further injury to RvP, and he looked way off the pace.
 
LR7 said:
Those players has been playing at a club run by Moyes for a long time. Playing his way. They have little trouble adapting to a totally different style of football. Is that only possible because there is no pressure to do well? Rubbish.
Click to expand...

Did I say that, at all? It's possible for a number of reasons, but the two situations are entirely different.
 
LonelyFire said:
SAF will not be able to do a thing. If glazers decide its time up then he will be gone.

You really shouldn't place too much faith in this whole "chosen one" stuff. It's massively overstated and nothing but a way for the club to PR Moyes
Click to expand...

I place faith in the Glazers understanding what Ferguson has done and following his counsel. Charlton will also back Ferguson too.
 
Diabo_Sam said:
On RvP yesterday:

“I was due to take him (RVP) off after 60-70 minutes but if I’d taken him off everybody would have said ‘what are you doing?’ but in truth, Robin needed to come off after 70 minutes maximum. I had to keep him on, we were chasing the game and I had to get a goal back.”

Speaks volumes about the pressure he is feeling atm. I don't think he should have said that, a strong leader wouldn't show he cares about what people say.
Click to expand...

I don't think leaving RVP on was that daft. If the rest of the team was playing well maybe, but they all looked hopeless and we needed a goal.

I thought our best chance of getting one was through an RVP set piece, so I'd have been slightly miffed if he'd gone off.

He took off Nani, Cleverley and Rafael instead. All three of whom had a nightmare and were offering no threat to anything other than their own team.
 
Very interesting to see what it'll take for him to be fired.
 
noodlehair said:
I don't think leaving RVP on was that daft. If the rest of the team was playing well maybe, but they all looked hopeless and we needed a goal.

I thought our best chance of getting one was through an RVP set piece, so I'd have been slightly miffed if he'd gone off.

He took off Nani, Cleverley and Rafael instead. All three of whom had a nightmare and were offering no threat to anything other than their own team.
Click to expand...

Nani was decent, but yeah, in hindsight he should have taken off RVP but keeping him on made sense at the time.
 
Loon said:
I place faith in the Glazers understanding what Ferguson has done and following his counsel. Charlton will also back Ferguson too.
Click to expand...

You're not understanding me. The idea that Moyes was the sole choice this summer is nonsense
 
Yes leaving RvP wasn't a bad decision although he might risk a further injury, but what I was referring about is his daft saying why kept him on!
 
DomesticTadpole said:
The club need to back him in January, if they want to keep him on. Without signings he will continue to struggle with this midfield.
Click to expand...

January is going to be a difficult one. What top player playing well is going to want to risk a move in a World Cup year? Pomising players not quite established are a gamble and fan-fodder if they don't get off to a sensational start.
 
Ryan's Beard said:
Did I say that, at all? It's possible for a number of reasons, but the two situations are entirely different.
Click to expand...

Why are they? Our players were hardly highly stuck to one way of playing and know nothing else. Fergie adapted the way we play quite regularly. Last season alone we played on the counter, we played a high pressing game, we played a possession game, we controlled the game in the middle (using a diamond at times) and we hit people on the flanks (City, Chelsea away). We were adaptable, and changed the tactics on a game to game basis. This team weren't drilled on one way of playing football and are now struggling to break away from something that is so deeply rooted. It just doesn't seem clear what Moyes is trying to achieve here. I couldn't pinpoint the way he is trying to get us to play yet it's clear how Everton have changed under Martinez.
 
LR7 said:
Why are they? Our players were hardly highly stuck to one way of playing and know nothing else. Fergie adapted the way we play quite regularly. Last season alone we played on the counter, we played a high pressing game, we played a possession game, we controlled the game in the middle (using a diamond at times) and we hit people on the flanks (City, Chelsea away). We were adaptable, and changed the tactics on a game to game basis. This team weren't drilled on one way of playing football and are now struggling to break away from something that is so deeply rooted. It just doesn't seem clear what Moyes is trying to achieve here. I couldn't pinpoint the way he is trying to get us to play yet it's clear how Everton have changed under Martinez.
Click to expand...

No but Moyes has had to make the step up to managing (probably) the most high profile team in the world. He's operating well within the shadow of SAF. It was always going to be hard for him to make a mark or an impression on this team, especially given it's weaknesses that Fergie managed to paper over through sheer force of will (or something). Martinez stepping into the Everton seat gives him far more freedom and far less pressure. Moyes has a hell of a lot more to contend with and United simply aren't as easy to wrest into a new regime as Everton. Moyes is struggling to stamp his authority on the club which, to be honest, is hardly a surprise. Martinez has a much easier time of it at Everton, and I don't think, had flavour-of-the-month Martinez got the job here, he'd have suddenly whipped us into an image of himself.
 
The club needed someone with a modern philosophy and playing style. We really needed to move away from the now dull 4-4-2. Everyone has been complaining about our zombie passing and aimless crossing. All Moyes has done is replicate Fergie's methods. The difference is that Moyes is doing it with an inferior mindset and it's showing in the results and performances. Fergie's methods ensured we could still be competetive despite our midfield. Moyes is simply interested in not losing.
 
Sarni said:
But you don't give a manager who has managed to have this team outside of CL and whose only signing has been Fellaini a chance to change things and build his own team, if you do it'll be too late to fix it and we'll be recovering from it for years.
Click to expand...

And that is the problem.

I was never convinced by David Moyes, because he comes across as too quiet, too much of a nice guy, and not particularly motivational. But maybe he's entirely different behind the scenes - I can only go on what I see. More than happy to be wrong.

Maybe he is the man for the job, but do we know exactly what he's got that made him suitable? What is it about him that got him the top job in football when he's never won anything, or finished in the top four? Or even top six - I think I read that Everton's highest place was 7th, and that was several years back.
 
Loon said:
It would seem we are not understanding each other, because I didn't suggest Moyes was.
Click to expand...

Just re-read your post - I get you now.

If he is there on January 1st, then he will get full season. I'm just not certain he will be there come then....
 
Livvie said:
And that is the problem.

I was never convinced by David Moyes, because he comes across as too quiet, too much of a nice guy, and not particularly motivational. But maybe he's entirely different behind the scenes - I can only go on what I see. More than happy to be wrong.

Maybe he is the man for the job, but do we know exactly what he's got that made him suitable? What is it about him that got him the top job in football when he's never won anything, or finished in the top four? Or even top six - I think I read that Everton's highest place was 7th, and that was several years back.
Click to expand...

He has taken Everton to 4th spot.
 
Ryan's Beard said:
No but Moyes has had to make the step up to managing (probably) the most high profile team in the world. He's operating well within the shadow of SAF. It was always going to be hard for him to make a mark or an impression on this team, especially given it's weaknesses that Fergie managed to paper over through sheer force of will (or something). Martinez stepping into the Everton seat gives him far more freedom and far less pressure. Moyes has a hell of a lot more to contend with and United simply aren't as easy to wrest into a new regime as Everton. Moyes is struggling to stamp his authority on the club which, to be honest, is hardly a surprise. Martinez has a much easier time of it at Everton, and I don't think, had flavour-of-the-month Martinez got the job here, he'd have suddenly whipped us into an image of himself.
Click to expand...

So the problem is Moyes struggling with the step up? In which case we should have sought a manager with a clear identity, proven at the top level?
Martinez had also just had his team relegated so Everton was a step up for him and he's turned what was a Moyes team into a team playing possession based attacking football in his image. There is little sign of what Moyes is trying to achieve here. What is the transition to?
 
Moyes will rightly get enough time to stamp his mark and turn things around.

I, for one, will judge him at the end of next year.
 
Loon said:
I place faith in the Glazers understanding what Ferguson has done and following his counsel. Charlton will also back Ferguson too.
Click to expand...
The Glazers disregard Fergie and Charlton as soon as this poor form starts to affect revenue. They still have interest payments and they are always looking for new commercial partnerships. If FSG got rid of Dalglish there's no reason why the Glazers will keep an underperforming Moyes.
 
Swaters16 said:
you have to earn time you don't just get it because SAF asked for it. Times have changed and football is different now. United weren't at the top of the food chain and Sir Alex was a proven coach. They could wait. If we stand by Moyes and end up back in league 2 is that worth it? What does that achieve?
Click to expand...

There is no need to be so dramatic by bringing up League fecking 2. People on this forum are talking as if we're in the relegation zone. It's ridiculous.


.Rossi said:
Yeah....There is standing by him...And then there is being a red tinted fan who knows nothing.

I want him to succeed as I love the idea of Fergie picking him to carry on his work is a dream.

But his plans and tactics so far have been shit and saying "Ah I've used the same players so it's not my fault" excuse is out of order
Click to expand...


Hahahaha - good one. Apologies for seeming to be a fan who's not giving up on the manager 3/4 fecking months in - how incredibly stupid and naive of me.
Our results this season should NOT be blamed on Moyes - the players have been under-performing and it says a lot that our best performing player this season is the player who Moyes successfully held on to all Summer.

Do you guys expect Moyes to get the team winning again when his own fans are against him? Give me strength.
 
LR7 said:
So the problem is Moyes struggling with the step up? In which case we should have sought a manager with a clear identity, proven at the top level?
Martinez had also just had his team relegated so Everton was a step up for him and he's turned what was a Moyes team into a team playing possession based attacking football in his image. There is little sign of what Moyes is trying to achieve here. What is the transition to?
Click to expand...

Yep. Who knew? He needs time. If he doesn't get to grips with managing at this level and he doesn't manage to sort the squad out after we've given him time, then we can get rid.

The step up to a post Moyes Everton is nothing like stepping into Sir Alex Ferguson's shoes. This is the part people aren't grasping. Literally any manager in world football would find taking up the reigns at United a daunting task. Moyes might not have handled it as well as some hoped but there is nothing at all to say anyone in the world would be doing a better job.
 
I've heard a few rumours that players only actually know the team the morning of the game. Difficult to prepare as a player if true.

I think Moyes is fine at a low budget side with relatively simplistic expectations. The majority of Everton fans pointed out the fact that he had taken them as far as he could, and that they needed a new man at the helm to take them to that next level. He's fine when attempting to grind out results, but I'm just not sure he is the sort of character who will succeed at this club and the expectations surround it. He can't expect to change the mentality of a club like United.

As people have stated though, he will receive my full support and we'll see where we are at the end of the season.
 
Ryan's Beard said:
Yep. Who knew? He needs time. If he doesn't get to grips with managing at this level and he doesn't manage to sort the squad out after we've given him time, then we can get rid.

The step up to a post Moyes Everton is nothing like stepping into Sir Alex Ferguson's shoes. This is the part people aren't grasping. Literally any manager in world football would find taking up the reigns at United a daunting task. Moyes might not have handled it as well as some hoped but there is nothing at all to say anyone in the world would be doing a better job.
Click to expand...

Sorry, not buying this at all. It'd take some beating to be doing a worse job than Moyes is at the moment. I'd really like him to stay and turn it around but I have seen absolutely zero evidence from his time here that he has the ability to do so. He'll surely get time till the new year, but another couple of defeats around Christmas and that will be the death knell on his time here.
 
LR7 said:
Those players has been playing at a club run by Moyes for a long time. Playing his way. They have little trouble adapting to a totally different style of football. Is that only possible because there is no pressure to do well? Rubbish.
Click to expand...

I think Martinez will find himself under pressure now. Moyes stabalised Everton. They now have taken on a manager who has actually won something with an inferior team to Everton and has had a good start. The Everton fans and board will now be expecting him to win stuff with Everton. I am not sure Moyes was under that sort of pressure there.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.