That's nonsense. I don't believe there would be any discontent among us if we were lying 3rd/4th in the table.
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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That's nonsense. I don't believe there would be any discontent among us if we were lying 3rd/4th in the table.
I guess what I'm saying is a single season could inevitably lead to multiple. Our squad does need an overhaul, and not being in CL will limit our ability to attract what we need. Making top 4 this season is critical
I suspect this is one of the main issues.
There's two things that annoyed me about him saying that. Firstly, the sheer egotistical stupidity to publicly criticise your manager, and secondly, suggesting that he tries harder in training or "ups his intensity" when he's told he's going to play.
The whole reason for not telling players the team until on the day is to try and keep EVERYONE's intensity and effort up and prevent people being lazy. Is Rio suggesting he should be above this? He has been our worst player this season, which is quite a fete.
I don't understand why he was given a new contract to be honest. If I was manager, at best he'd be told in no uncertain terms to keep his mouth completely shut and that he'd better be working harder than most in training from now on. Though given his performances this season I'd probably just tell him to feck off. He's causing all the problems I was worried would also come from Rooney (who's been the polar opposite).
Why pay to keep an aeging liability around if the only thing he brings to the table attitude wise is lazyness and disrespect?
It's an odd thing to say that he would be under the similar kind of pressure that he is under right now if we were sitting in, say, 4th place. The pressure on him has really started to pile up in the last 3-4 games. We were doing fine before then, and were in 5th place. There was hardly the amount of discontent as there is now. He will have a few more games to turn it around I guess, and for the sake of the health of our football club, I hope he does.
This was a more than good enough reason:
"He has no idea what managing a club at that level (let alone stature) is like, never mind how to get them playing a particular brand of football effectively which he isn't accustomed to having the resources to be able to do.
I'm not saying he wouldn't be able to do it, but there's no way in hell people would give him the time he'd need to do so."
Obviously the fans aren't going to accept being mid-table for a few years so Moyes can learn what it takes to 'manage a club at this level and get them playing a particular brand of football effectively'. And nor should they!
They will have to because there is no realistic target who wouldn't fall into that category. There's a very small list of clubs who can match United in terms of size and expectation, and an even smaller list of managers who can say they've got experience of managing them and living up to that expectation.
Literally the only appointment that would have appeased the fans is Mourinho, and he certainly isn't on the above mentioned list and would have been a disastrous choice imo.
There would've been...obviously not as much as these last few weeks. I reckon fans would've been more likely to show patience had we spent heavily to rebuild the team in the summer and all. Sadly we only ended up with Fellaini...a part of me hopes that transfer was put into place before Moyes arrived. Or at least Moyes wasn't desperate to sign him.
I think Mourinho was the obvious choice, but there's no real point arguing over that now, we are where we are.
No it's not. I hope we do of course but it's far from a disaster.
Give Moyes the summer transfer window and if we still look shite next November then we can think about sacking him. That's the minimum time we need to give him. A year and a half of patience is not too much to ask I should think
The biggest cause of discontent was not our position but the way we have been playing. We've just been awful for most of the season. Now you have the double effect of position and performance.
That's all well and good, but you have to put something in place to stop him further degrading the quality of the squad with his signings in that time. It is worrying that there was no one within the club who vetoed the Fellaini transfer at that price.
Well our top two transfer targets were Thiago and Fabregas going by the rumours. Moyes also tried to sign a LB's in Baines and Coentrao and going by Evra's form this season you can see why.
But yes the Fellaini transfer was concerning. Was clearly a panic signing
Do you honestly think Moyes wanted to spend that much on Fellaini? To me it's clear Fellaini was a last minute panic but because he failed with his other targets, which were of the quality we needed. We then stupidly panicked and went for Fellaini.
Also, Woodward negotiates and he is also partly responsible for the fee. Overall it was a sorry episode but if you think Moyes and WoodwArd were jumping up and down and popping the cork because of this deal then you're mistaken.
Ahhh but to be fair, we weren't exactly great to watch last season as well. In fact it was my single biggest gripe.
I think he's close to losing the dressing room.
Yeah I don't see the logic in these claims. It's pure delusion.
Fellaini seemed like a panic buy. Which is why I think it was sheer looney letting Gill go this summer.
Even if you did, you're not going to get Mourinho if you sack Moyes off now, so you'd have to find someone else...who the fans wont turn on after less than half a season.
Then eventually you appoint club hero Kenny Dalglish and he defends one of your players for being a racist and spends 35m on Andy Carroll.
Yeah I worried about that too. Felt a lack of authority when he said that. I understand the desperation of playing him whilst unfit, given our situation. But to say that (bit you highlighted) was defeatist.
I just wonder about the direction of the club, in general, not just whether Moyes yields the job. I mean, the appointment of Woodward - and the ensuing shambles of this summer's transfer window. Was the board actually willing to dispense with the sums of money needed to strengthen our squad? January will certainly prove a barometer of the board's ambitions. I worried that after years of not really strengthening as we should (if the aim is to truly be the best, not just domestically) with SAF repeatedly defending the ownership, appointing Moyes who'd done well on a shoe-string budget the indications were that we would not be fighting at the very top. Appointing a proven top class manager would likely have meant having to guarantee proper funding and serious ambition. Then we get a summer full of how we are going to sign this player and that player and of course the "super amazing transfer that was about to happen"...
Changing managers mid season doesn't have much if any positive impact.
One thing that made Fergie successful was that he ignored what most of the fans were saying. He made mistakes yes but in the long run he proved to be more right than wrong. And moyes should do the same...i
Could we please stop saying that 'Moyes is deluding himself saying we're still in contention for the first spot' ? What do you expect him to say? You lot give him shit for some minor things he says to the media, try to overanalyse his words and make some idiotic conclusions based on it, call him a loser, defetist attitude and so on. Now, that he's saying words that you'd expect to hear from your manager, even if we know that it's bullshit, he's still under criticism ? What was he supposed to say?
The appointment of DM was all about shoe string budgets. I said that at the time. The Sunday Times Fink Tank did an analysis of points return versus wages spent. Moyes was second only to SAF last season and for a number of seasons. So that is the reality of the Moyes appointment. He was appointed because United want to keep a grip on wage bills and the board believe he will deliver enough points every year to keep things ticking over. Trophies aren't the priority it seems. Thats the world we live in now...
True. But confidence is such a fragile thing, and Moyes is clearly outside is comfront zone. We'll see if he's got chutzpah.
6 points out of 27 from games against all the teams above us in the league.
Its really hard to see how another manager could do much worse than that to be honest.
di matteo,avram grant,pochetto and hiddink disagree off the top of my head.
It sometimes does, but usually for teams sitting bottom of the league around Christmas...and even then, they usually end up doing the same thing when they're bottom of the table again two months into the next season.
Two of those ended up getting sacked midway through the very next season, and the other left before he was able to.
I'd love to see how much difference they made. Harry stands out though, he worked wonders at Spurs from the off.
I think Mourinho was never an option because they didn't want a manager who invites a media circus - the Beckham syndrome. I loved Becks, and I like Mourinho, but I can see the logic.
One of them won the CL,the other was a runner up in league and CL, and the third won the fa cup.
Yup, forgot harry. saved spurs season there, and pochetto as well. Sacking the wrong manager can have a positive impact, rather than just sticking with him for no reason.
Yeah that's how I saw it at the time. His stint at Real must've put us off. That said he had the ego to take over at United.
With a team that's spent more money than any other team in history...and then despite that managing to get sacked without even completing a full season in charge. You can make the same argument that Benitez improved Chelsea last season, and he took over from one of the people you are using to argue your point...and then he basically got sacked.
So the solution is to just keep sacking everyone...
Yes...but did they all vastly improve their clubs' points return? On average a new manager only makes an improvement of 0.1 points. Sure it's just cold stats but I'd love to see how well the ones you mentioned actually did in the league.
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaarghhhhhh!! the feeling of reading things on here must be what its like to try teach algebra to slow students. the latest inexplicable stupidity prompted by moyes' "people wouldve said i dont know what im doing" comment re van persie.
Make it clear, that like any tabloid journalist, you can spin ANY comment the way you want to. Stop putting a fecking magnifying glass on anything he says to try back up your own 'point'. The journalist worded the question with the suggestion that RVP wasnt fit and Ive since read an article about how Moyes heaped pressure on himself by playing an unfit player. Moyes replied to say that if he had taken him off people woul say this or that too, suggesting he cant win either way. play him and get questioned why he played an unfit player, dont play him and get told he doesnt know what he's doing.
Go back through Fergusons old press conferences, take the quotes and pretend Moyes said them instead. You can twist them to make it look like hes saying these 'weak' or stupid things. youre being idiots. calm the feck down.
Make it clear, that like any tabloid journalist, you can spin ANY comment the way you want to. Stop putting a fecking magnifying glass on anything he says to try back up your own 'point'. The journalist worded the question with the suggestion that RVP wasnt fit and Ive since read an article about how Moyes heaped pressure on himself by playing an unfit player. Moyes replied to say that if he had taken him off people woul say this or that too, suggesting he cant win either way. play him and get questioned why he played an unfit player, dont play him and get told he doesnt know what he's doing.
Go back through Fergusons old press conferences, take the quotes and pretend Moyes said them instead. You can twist them to make it look like hes saying these 'weak' or stupid things. youre being idiots. calm the feck down.
...and then got sacked.
None of the trio that I listed spent any of that money in their success though. So that point is invalid. And nope, just listing examples where sacking someone has had a positive impact.
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