Exactly how many times will that quote be posted on this forum?
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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you have to earn time you don't just get it because SAF asked for it. Times have changed and football is different now. United weren't at the top of the food chain and Sir Alex was a proven coach. They could wait. If we stand by Moyes and end up back in league 2 is that worth it? What does that achieve?
Moyes is doing worse if you really want to compare Ferguson's first full season at the club when we finished 2nd. We're currently a midtable club, there has to reach a point where enough is enough and you can't just give someone carte blanche over a team. I asked the top reds like twigganator what they considered an expectation of a non-spoilt fan and they said that it's just simply challenging for the top honours; well we're not doing that by any means this season.
Yeah....There is standing by him...And then there is being a red tinted fan who knows nothing.
I want him to succeed as I love the idea of Fergie picking him to carry on his work is a dream.
But his plans and tactics so far have been shit and saying "Ah I've used the same players so it's not my fault" excuse is out of order
This is what we signed up to. No surprise he is floundering.
Bad stat for a midtable team, but if you get up the other managers' records at similar level clubs, it will look similar to that. However, we knew this record when we signed him up,and it's worrying to think that he still has this mentality set against the big teams so far, be it home or away. The football in the past 2 home games has been so frighteningly negative that I never had any full belief we would even scrape a win let alone comfortably win it at any point.
The supposed biggest difference between moyes and mourinho is moyes will rebuild and develop the team but no good signing so far contradicts it. Players get old and underperform are not his problem but failure to address it is his definitely
De Gea
Rafael-Vidic-Evans-Evra
Nani-Carrick-Midfielder he could have signed-Young/Januzaj
RVP/Rooney
Possible replacements: Valencia, Fabio, Webeck, Hernandez, Giggs, Kagawa
Someone tell me that is not good enough to win the league?!?!?!....And I am dying to hear your reasons!!
This whole "ahhh it's the United way!" crap has run it's course...Someone tell me how that team is not good enough to challenge for the league/CL spot
Rafael-Vidic-Evans-Evra
Nani-Carrick-Midfielder he could have signed-Young/Januzaj
RVP/Rooney
Possible replacements: Valencia, Fabio, Webeck, Hernandez, Giggs, Kagawa
Someone tell me that is not good enough to win the league?!?!?!....And I am dying to hear your reasons!!
This whole "ahhh it's the United way!" crap has run it's course...Someone tell me how that team is not good enough to challenge for the league/CL spot
To be fair, Carrick, Rvp and Rafael have been injured recently. Take them out of that team and you have to put in Cleverley (ordinary player), Kagawa (inconsistent with a tendency to fade) and Smalling (not a rb). Looking at the rest of that team: Evans isn't top class, Evra is nearing the end of his time here, Nani isn't top class, new midfielder might need time to bed in, Young is ordinary, Januzaj is still a kid, Valencia is ordinary, Welbeck doesn't score goals, Fabio seems not to be particularly rated and Giggs is fourty.
But yeah, I still thought we could finish a competitive 3rd, so there's no doubt we're underperforming.
There is no way that team can't challenge for the top 4 at the very least, coming off as champions!
I do not accept it!
How anyone can say that team, minus an addition or two, as I said, cannot challenge is beyond me.
I expected us to finish 3rd easily this year so Moyes next season would be judged on that...But I'm at a loss what to say now
That was the worst part of today. We had less shots, less possession, and less passes compared to Newcastle. Totally unacceptable.
I know. Even bad as we are now, the thought that we might not finish top 4 still baffles me. There certainly aren't four teams/squads better than us in the league. I'm even sure we have a better team than Arsenal, who have breezed through the league so far.
Granted, some allowance has to be made for the fact that Rafael, Carrick and RvP have all been injured at the same time. Probably our three best players last year and it was often said we'd struggle if either Carrick or RvP was out for an extended period. Still though, 9th place...
As I said mate, I could accept a top 3 finish....Hell I could accept a top 6 finish if we could all see a plan and a strategy as to what he wanted to do.....I see nowt.
All I see are a bunch of players, who were champions 6 months ago, not having a clue
We would have been in the top 4 comfortably now if Ferguson were still our manager, IMO - despite the injuries.
I'd also like to see a bit of fire in his press conferences/interviews. He doesn't need to single out any players, but something along the lines of 'this is completely unacceptable, and anyone who doesn't want to stand and be counted knows where the door is…' would be a good start. I'm sick of hearing that the fans are great, Wayne looks fantastic, and we expect to be challenging come the end of the season.
I got a bit of stick for saying he should show anger, but this is what I meant to say: aggression. Show that you believe our performances are unacceptable, don't make it feel like these results should be the norm, especially at OT ffs.
Thats what I want personally!
I remember Gary Neville saying after the 3-1 City game in 2002, Fergie threatened them over letting the fans in the dressing room and said that some of them won't play for United again after that season....He made them shit themselves and they put in a great season after that.
Moyes was on a hammering to nothing....But he hasn't made it easy for himself
A good start for Moyes would be sorting out Ferdinand. I wouldn't field him again after what he said (it's not like it would hurt our performances, given how shit Rio's been.) After that, turn the Manson lamps on any other ingrate who cares to go to the press/not work his ass for the team. Then we might see some positive results on the field.
If he was of a mind to pick a row to show his authority then Ferdinand would be the obvious candidate. Big name, big reputation, big presence yet isn't actually contributing much. Not saying I necessarily think it's the right move at this stage mind...
What did Rio say? I've not been following any of the media around United for a while, I imagine it's mostly unbearable.
If Moyes picks a row with a senior player, and wins, it could be very much a defining point. But it's very tricky
This is essentially Fergie's team so if Moyes did pick a fight what happens and who takes whose side?
I wasn't around but, how did people feel when Fergie took on the likes of Whiteside and McGrath and won with the backing of the board?
he said that Moyes picks the team/squad as late as possible and that it's hard to prepare yourself for a match as you don't know if you are playing or not and that you waste nervous energy because of it
I was livid at the time, but it's generally understood that when Ferguson arrived at United there was very little discipline and the key players like McGrath,Whiteside and Robson were a law unto themselves. They liked a drink a little too much and I think Ferguson thought he'd joined a pub team and went about rooting out the bad eggs and bad influences.McGrath was a beast and one of the best defenders we've had a I adored big Norman but he couldn't work with those guys, and his new regime wouldn't allow for such disruptive influences.
I agree but it might just end up causing more trouble with Rio being the media whore that he is.
Thats all fair enough but.....
How would fans feel today if Moyes got his balls out of his stomach and got rid of Rio, Evra, Cleverley, Anderson, Young, got Giggs to retire and told RVP to feck off (if the transfer request rumor was true)...It would be ballsy and a massive risk that would send shock waves through football in general...
Lets be honest, it's not as if these players have given their all during Moyes' time (Except Giggs)
Getting rid of the deadwood there is a sensible move. It'd be stupid to get rid of the players who still bring something to the squad though just to show everyone how hard you are. RvP needs to stay unless it becomes clear he's being a wanker. Same for Evra at the moment. fecking him off and leaving us with butter as our only left back (at least only left back Moyes seems willing to play) is a terrible move.
Let's be honest, we've been playing without a left back for quite a while...On the defensive front that is
Fair point
Let say we keep faith in Moyes and end up finishing outside of top 4 this season, then the next summer we fail to attract big names again (no CL football) and next season we fail to finish top 4 again.
Such outcome is quite likely base on what we've shown so far. In such case should we give Moyes another year? (assume we should at least give Moyes 2 years)
Such outcome is quite likely base on what we've shown so far. In such case should we give Moyes another year? (assume we should at least give Moyes 2 years)
Two seasons in a row without finishing in the CL places? I'd definitely want him gone at that stage.
We cannot afford to let the club slip backwards at such an alarming rate. This will affect how sponsors view us, as well as the ability to attract world class players. They don't want to be playing for a team that's seen to be in decline or rebuilding under a clueless manager.
Everyone at the club must start getting their act together, starting from the owners to the CEO to the management. What the feck are we paying these people for anyway if they can't do their job well?
Everyone at the club must start getting their act together, starting from the owners to the CEO to the management. What the feck are we paying these people for anyway if they can't do their job well?
Depends for me. If he's finishing outside the top 4 with the team lacking a football identity, then he should go.
They did back him. He signed Fellaini for 27 million pounds.
If you finish outside the top 4 with this team, it's best you stick to managing mid table teams because you're definitely Nowhere near good enough for the top clubs. That performance wwith this squad would be laughable. I'd say even one season outside the top 4 with this squad is a horrible performance.
We're about to find out aren't we?...I'm not saying "I told you so" but I knew this would happen under Moyes eventually...Jut did not think it would happen this soon..
He will get a full season but no more then that. Fergie might be untouchable but, no CL football, fan pressure and money will overrule him anyday
I think so too. Patience is all well and good, but just on pure performance, forget champions league money or pressure for a second, finishing 6th with this team with no real football system or vision coming through, doesn't really leave any reason to blindly "give him more time".
I said at the start of the season that one year should be the minimum time Moyes should get. But that opinion was formed thinking the worst it would get is us getting 4th and trying very hard to introduce a new style of play or a big improvement of our current one. So my old take is basically completely dead now.
I was thinking today, we all keep going on about how the club stood by SAF during his first few years, but Ron Atkinson was sacked because of a terrible league position in November and, presumably, because the board didn't like the direction the club was going in. Obviously it's far too early to say anything about the direction of the club under Moyes, but personally I think he's being overly optimistic if he thinks our league position has no impact on his job security at this point.
The other thing I was thinking about is how SAF reportedly took only 4 or 5 weeks before starting to completely change the way the club functioned, reforming the youth scouting and squad for instance. Of course, there's less for Moyes to fix now than there was for Fergie back then, but the point is he wasn't scared to address what he thought was wrong and make his mark. I was really hoping that Moyes coming would be an opportunity to address the complete lack of fluidity of our football, either with a few signings, some different formations, some bold team selections or even just a more subtle set of tactical instructions. But 5 or so months into the job, the sheer continuity between the end of SAF's reign and this season in everything except the results means he has very few excuses in my opinion – if you're going to play it safe, you need to at least justify it with your results.
Anyway, early morning meandering thoughts over – basically, Moyes needs to freshen things up a bit if he wants to earn himself more patience.
The other thing I was thinking about is how SAF reportedly took only 4 or 5 weeks before starting to completely change the way the club functioned, reforming the youth scouting and squad for instance. Of course, there's less for Moyes to fix now than there was for Fergie back then, but the point is he wasn't scared to address what he thought was wrong and make his mark. I was really hoping that Moyes coming would be an opportunity to address the complete lack of fluidity of our football, either with a few signings, some different formations, some bold team selections or even just a more subtle set of tactical instructions. But 5 or so months into the job, the sheer continuity between the end of SAF's reign and this season in everything except the results means he has very few excuses in my opinion – if you're going to play it safe, you need to at least justify it with your results.
Anyway, early morning meandering thoughts over – basically, Moyes needs to freshen things up a bit if he wants to earn himself more patience.
The comparisons between Moyes and fergie's beginnings don't make any sense (not aimed at you timdbro). Fergie didn't inherit a team of absolute champions who have dominated their league and won 5 out of 7 of the last league titles. He didn't inherit a team that's always been a big factor in the Champions league once winning it in the last 5 years. He didn't inherit a team that won the league by landslide last season. Let's face, this team is full of excellent footballers who are winners and have proven it.
Absolutely, but I think what people are getting at with the comparisons is that the Fergie era made us a more stable and patient club, and showed us the value in persisting with a manager that might be struggling to start with. But it's all relative, isn't it? That's what got me thinking about Big Ron – if Moyes isn't getting anything close to the results expected of him, and also not managing to unite all the support and players behind his cause, I'm sure the board/owners' patience will run out fairly quickly.
There is no comparison with Moyes taking over and the beginning of SAFs reign. Fergie had to rebuild a club that was on its knees - infrastructure, youth, the lot. Moyes doesn't have any of those worries. Even if you believe that the first team is poor by comparison, you cant say Moyes has the same level of rebuilding to do.
Anyway, anyone notice how we defend set pieces with every player back in box? We are taking away one of de gea's greatest strengths - his distribution. We've got everyone in box therefore cant spring an attack. Its further proof of moyes priority in his head - defend. The result of course is the opposition push more into the box because we are not giving ourselves any ability to transition the play.
Its just not Man Utd.
Anyway, anyone notice how we defend set pieces with every player back in box? We are taking away one of de gea's greatest strengths - his distribution. We've got everyone in box therefore cant spring an attack. Its further proof of moyes priority in his head - defend. The result of course is the opposition push more into the box because we are not giving ourselves any ability to transition the play.
Its just not Man Utd.
Against Newcastle he always kept one centreback back on attacking set pieces. The man sets us up to defend before attack, we are not a defensive side.
He has had a pre season and been in charge for 30 odd games and shown nothing. People justified our pre season losses as him getting to know us, the early losses as it was a tough start, then the poor run after as bad luck and now there are no excuses left.
Says it all he didn't even have Fellaini in the squad.
If he is an honest man then he needs to the honest thing and accept hes not cut out at this level and resign.
He has had a pre season and been in charge for 30 odd games and shown nothing. People justified our pre season losses as him getting to know us, the early losses as it was a tough start, then the poor run after as bad luck and now there are no excuses left.
Says it all he didn't even have Fellaini in the squad.
If he is an honest man then he needs to the honest thing and accept hes not cut out at this level and resign.
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