Wishful thinking?
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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Wishful thinking?
@giggsyflying As a psychologist you may have to explain how todays performance shows that the players don't trust the manager?
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The reality is if the players aren't performing for him they'll be sold.
Well it's not just the position we are at. It's the game we're imposing. Really at what match in the Premier League this season we were comfortable having played against most of the teams (4 left), apart from Swansea in day one. Did we dominate even one game. Even against Palace and Stoke which are (probably) the two sides with worst form away we were struggling at a time.
To be fair I find it difficult to single out games that we should've won but failed due to luck. However I find more that we easily could've lost points - Stoke, Sunderland even Palace didn't look that bad at OT before the peno and red card.
He's our manager, the Board unanimously chose him. I know you lusted after Mourinho but he's elsewhere (losing at Stoke).
Scrutiny is ok, but there's an obvious agenda from many fans (including you) who didn't want him in the first place and overanalyse every minor aspect - like a fecking press conference after the game! That is apparently enough to call him cringeworthy, lacking leadership qualities, lost the dressing room etc. Things none of you have the slightest clue about.
Sack him already, I know I wont regret saying that.. he's shit.
Will anyone want to come in to replace them?
For people saying Mayes has lost the squad, sure. But like Hodgson at Liverpool, you're deluding yourself if you think that's the sum of it. The squad good enough.
Suarez went to Liverpool, why wouldn't a world class player come to Utd?
Nonsense to assume we can't attract a top player on the basis of a poor season. If not we'll promote them from the youth and build from the bottom up.
We didn't even "make it as difficult as possible for them" like he said we would!
Of course they will. Not necessarily top bracket players though, we're gonna have to mould a generation of quality players.
Hodgson took a squad that finished 8 under rafa and he made them slightly worse. Big difference to what moyes has done.
That's probably why he needed to keep the coaching staff, I know he would want familiar faces round him, but they have no experience of winning either and will not be able to give him advice on how to put things right. A lot of the thing to do with the change over have been handled badly.
We definitely dominated Crystal Palace and Stoke. My problem with the former is that we needed a free kick goal and a penalty to win the game. While the latter is hard to judge Moyes on because Stoke set up a low-block, which is hard to break down. The signs were there from the very start. The Liverpool game, for example, gave us a preview of our CBs hoofing the ball up...
I don't believe in luck. The system has to be ideal, even if we lost today with a system that is lets us play better football, I would be more content. But the way we're playing at the moment, it's hard to find any positives at all. Looking at our fixture list pre-Newcastle game, I felt optimistic that we can pick up near enough maximum points in the next couple of fixtures, but I'm not too optimistic now.
The thing is, only SAF could pick them up when they are down. I fear worse is to come
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Wasn't too hard to spot those problems.
I think you'll find that even most who didn't want Moyes would be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt if his actions and results as manager revealed a glimmer of hope that things will improve to a level that is acceptable to most fans. Unfortunately, that hasn't happened, and he is rightfully being criticized. If he loses the players and the underwhelming results continue then so will the scrutiny.
Well this one has been fecking awful. Giving the job to his friend despite the fact that Moyes is not even the slightest bit qualified for a job at one of the biggest clubs around.
Moyes has to feel pretty let down by some of the players performances.He must also be wondering how we won the league last year!! I am not his biggest fan right now, and yes he has inherited ateam that won the league, but this team squad is so flawed and we know that, all of us.I still think that if we had two top quality CM in that team then we would not be having this conversation.I do agree with those that would like a move away from a 442.Certainly while we're having such problems in midfield, and maybe it's time for United to evolve from a side that plays with two wingers?
You are deluding yourself if you think there was effort today.
As for me not having a clue, I'm expressing an opinion. That's what being on here is about. I think there are many signs that the players do not trust the manager. Guess we will see this week...
Even when the results were better people complained about everything. I think there's quite a few (including you) who are actually enjoying his current travails and sticking the knife in.
If there's one picture that sums up Moyes' philosophy at the moment, it's probably this one. Rooney is on the ball... Everton playing a high defensive line - Welbeck makes the run in behind, but Rooney decides to pass it to the wings. It's almost like it's been programmed into their heads - "pass to the wings, pass to the wings, pass to the wings..."
I tell you what we're not enjoying, the shite football and results.
If there's one picture that sums up Moyes' philosophy at the moment, it's probably this one. Rooney is on the ball... Everton playing a high defensive line - Welbeck makes the run in behind, but Rooney decides to pass it to the wings. It's almost like it's been programmed into their heads - "pass to the wings, pass to the wings, pass to the wings..."
Can you get some screen shots that show how all our players seem to run away from the man in possession. I actually think most of them think its an offense to be with 10 yards of a teammate thesedays.
I was there at the game, I saw the effort.
Bad performances don't mean that the players don't trust the manager! Confidence is just low at the moment. I'm optimistic that we'll hit a run of results and gain some momentum. That's all it needs.
If there's one picture that sums up Moyes' philosophy at the moment, it's probably this one. Rooney is on the ball... Everton playing a high defensive line - Welbeck makes the run in behind, but Rooney decides to pass it to the wings. It's almost like it's been programmed into their heads - "pass to the wings, pass to the wings, pass to the wings..."
Erm, that's been a united philosophy for ages from what I can tell, saying its Moyes' is a bit off the mark but it is indicative of the fact that he hasn't imprinted anything of his own into this team or club, if he thinks he can attempt to continue where SAF left off he has another thing coming.
Please explain to me how different the philosophy was to the highlighted one under SAF.
I actually said, in the very post you're quoting, how that would be the case. They all play each other over the next few games.
The football at times has been good, the problem is that we are only playing in patches in games.
There's no question that some on here are absolutely desperate to see Moyes fail. They'll never admit it, but with each bad result they'll relish the opportunity to get on here and complain about him. All they're interested in is names. They want the big name players, the big name managers. That's all this is to them. They've not a fecking clue about supporting the team.
It seems that we've been saying that nearly all season. I can't see us going on any type of run in current form, unless RVP or Rooney hit top form together and start carrying us. We also need Carrick back ASAP.
Some people need to get this in their heads - everybody expected a transitional season when SAF retired. But never did I expect it to get this bad, and by the looks of things with Villa away next, it's only going to get worse. Fans have every right to worry without being called names. We are already getting worried about losing our best players and not being able to get the kind of quality players we need. There is a lot of negativity around the place. We're in a shitty spot at the moment, and the manager has to shoulder the blame.
The biggest mistake the club did was trying to find the next fergie. Seems as though everyone that was involved in the appointment of a new manager had a similar vision to who should be brought in, the qualities of that person in this led to us hiring someone who IMO just isn't cut out for this job.
It happens sometimes, someone tries to take a step up in their career and their limitations get exposed. He's being exposed really badly atm and we should save him and ourselves. People are saying we should wait till jan so he can build his own team, but he had the whole summer to make such adjustments and all he did is buy Fellaini. A few more signings like that at that price we're gonna find ourselves in big trouble. Why put so much trust in a man who hasn't proven himself at such a level?
IMO we should change our managerial set up(on the football side of things). I prefer the idea of having a lot of heads contributing rather than having one single man and hoping he'll get it right. If he gets it wrong, we could have a continuous time of failure especially if we follow this ideal that we don't fire and hire managers.
He's old fashioned in a time when football is becoming more and more modernised. We should've gotten a man in who could do just that instead of getting someone who is proper old school. He's not much of a positive coach both in his demeanor and football approach, just isn't at the level we should have leading this club.
It happens sometimes, someone tries to take a step up in their career and their limitations get exposed. He's being exposed really badly atm and we should save him and ourselves. People are saying we should wait till jan so he can build his own team, but he had the whole summer to make such adjustments and all he did is buy Fellaini. A few more signings like that at that price we're gonna find ourselves in big trouble. Why put so much trust in a man who hasn't proven himself at such a level?
IMO we should change our managerial set up(on the football side of things). I prefer the idea of having a lot of heads contributing rather than having one single man and hoping he'll get it right. If he gets it wrong, we could have a continuous time of failure especially if we follow this ideal that we don't fire and hire managers.
He's old fashioned in a time when football is becoming more and more modernised. We should've gotten a man in who could do just that instead of getting someone who is proper old school. He's not much of a positive coach both in his demeanor and football approach, just isn't at the level we should have leading this club.
Suarez wasn't a world class player at that time mate. And when they signed Suarez, they signed also Carroll, Downing, Adam and Henderson. Only one of those signings was really succesful. The other point is that they didn't had any concurrence in his signing. On the other side, they have lost in many other players. They lost to Dortmund on Mkhitaryan, they lost to Spurs in a few players last season.
Of course that our name will attract players, but not the very top ones. They likely will receive offers from similar clubs in stature than us. And United never was the bestest when it comes to transfers, agent fees and transfers. And now we don't have even Sir Alex. To make things even worse, we have in his place David Moyes, which likely for the most players outside of UK was a complete annonymous person until this summer. And now is known as the manager who transformed United to a midtable club. Yes, a good wage in cases when we don't have competition for those players might turn their heads, but without Sir Alex, without UCL football and without overpaying a lot would be very difficult. And impossible if other big clubs will compete for the same player.
Not at all. I would be delighted if he got off to a successful start. The problem is that most on here are appalled by our sudden decline, which is mainly what's driving the scrutiny of Moyes' management. Had we finished 5th or 6th last year, our underwhelming start would have had a degree of expectation and context. The fact that we won the league with mostly the same squad last year is what is driving the unease.
Fergie had us playing down the middle more, even last season there was more variation in our play. At the moment, it's all down the wings. I don't see how this can be argued at all. There's a difference between Fergie's system and Moyes' system at the moment. I'm still "Moyes in", but I'm just highlighting a flaw. You can still play down the wings, but you have to balance things out.
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