Moyes So Far!

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Mockney said:
It seems an incredibly desperate opinion when you put it like that.

Funnily enough I've a sneaking suspicion some of the optimists desperate to deflect the attention from Moyes by pointing to the players were largely the same people shouting down negative opinions of our squad last season.

One of the main jobs of a manager is to manage the players. He doesn't just pick teams and have a biscuit.
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You're absolutely correct here. I am just amazed that how 'top reds' have forgotten that it isn't top red-ish to slam the players. At-least they should try to make some balance.
 
I think that he'll be sacked if we don't get a top 4 finish. We'll need to sell a new manager with a new project to transfer targets (and to any players who may want to leave, including Rooney).
 
Spoony said:
Possibly, but Chelsea are hardly looking like world beaters. But yeah, I can't argue with that, suppose it just comes down to patience...I'm just not panicking yet.
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Yes but they have improved on last year. With another few transfer windows Maureen will mold them in his own image. You can also see the difference in how he handles players and egos. Dropping mata their best player last year would be a death knell for almost anyone but he has been vindicated in his decision and handled it well.

A far cry from moyes at the moment. Moyes just looks out of his depth and seems to have no clue how to fix it. This is evidenced by us playing the same tactics each match despite it not working. This 442 he has us playing is terrible and disjointed. Yet he has not changed it at all.
 
Smores said:
Ppl seem to be forgetting how influential the loss of Carrick has been. Fergie escaped that problem for years but weve always known we'd be in trouble should he have got injured.

Its Fergies fault we didn't have that backup, Woodwards fault we didn't strengthen. Both have made it very difficult for Moyes and I'm not sure any other manager including Fergie would have coped any better
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Carrick has been a huge blow and has been vital to our midfield the last few years but you hear things about how Moyes coaching methods have been questioned by certain players and certain ones not happy with his style you have to look at the manager. Sure we can look at Woodward incompetence at getting players in but surely the buck stops at the manager for his tactics and ability to pick the players up.

Moyes is out of his depths I honestly think any other top manager would be able to cope but Moyes is simply not a top manager and I think some of the players think the same. Personally given how direr our team looks I think hes lost the dressing room and im not surprised given the fans have too.
 
Think I'll leave the thread alone for a while, clearly no support for Moyes.
 
Forget it lads, he doesn't have it in him. I don't like saying it but, it's true.

Look at the players today....It reminds me of Chelsea under AVB. They looked like they couldn't be bothered.

When no one is showing for the ball, it's pretty desperate
 
Danny1982 said:
PLLLLLease! Fergie lost far better players than Carrick and he coped much better than this..

I don't think it makes sense to defend Moyes anymore in any way other way than "he needs time to adapt to the squad, and he will turn this around pretty fecking quickly!".
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Like who? Name one truly great central midfielder Fergie lost without having a semi-adequate replacement.
 
.Rossi said:
Forget it lads, he doesn't have it in him. I don't like saying it but, it's true.

Look at the players today....It reminds me of Chelsea under AVB. They looked like they couldn't be bothered.

When no one is showing for the ball, it's pretty desperate
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But do you think the board will sack Moyes? I doubt it!
 
NewDawnFades said:
We just have to wait until the end of the year, its going to be long and difficult but we have to give him a year.

If we sack Moyes without giving him a chance then what follows; what happens when the one after him starts poorly? We will lose all hope of stability and the benefits that can bring in the long term.
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We have too much quality. This is an abnormally rubbish start for a team of this quality. I don't think it would happen easily with other top managers. We won't lose all stability because we get rid of Moyes in case he's the wrong man for the job. We'd be making the right call.
 
He won't get sacked until after the season at the very least.

But he'll get the bullet come the summer if he doesn't do something drastically.
 
RDCR07 said:
Its not just about today. Look at it from the time he took over. We didnt have a great preseason by our standards. On top of that, we wasted two months and didnt sign one player who could actually make a difference to our side given the fact that if Carrick is injured, we are fecked and that is exactly what has happened. He is starting to lose the dressing room I feel like some have said already. I dont think there is any excuse for losing home games to anyone let alone two in a row.
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We've had rubbish pre-seasons before him though. I don't really think thats a big factor. As I said today what would you have done differently? With the options he had this was as strong as he could go.

I agree that he messed up in the summer, but in fairness we don't know how much that was him or Woodward not getting the deals done. At least he tried to sign someone, Fergie ignored it completely and got lucky that Carrick stayed fit and RVP/Rooney stayed fit to make up for defiencies. I don't think we'd have been much better last season with no Carrick, Rooney out and RVP missing.

You can blame him in previous games for leaving the likes of nani/januaj out when they're clearly more threatening than other players out there, but the main issue is central midfield, as it was today, and we know he knows its an area that needs addressing. Until it does though, unless others are playing really well which they aren't then it's a problem and I think it would be an issue regardless of who's manager.
 
If he loses the dressing room its curtains. The media narrative questioning whether his job is in trouble will keep snowballing and the fans will turn on him. We're not far from that point.
 
He'll be gone in the summer. He doesn't have what it takes. Fergie and Charlton should have cast their net wider. This whole British manager in a top job thing is the only thing protecting him from a full blown attack in the media.
 
I don't understand why some of you are so quick to pull the trigger.
Give him a year at least.
 
Raoul said:
If he loses the dressing room its curtains. The media narrative questioning whether his job is in trouble will keep snowballing and the fans will turn on him. We're not far from that point.
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Could you imagine Rio saying stuff like he has about the manager if Fergie was still in charge?

He might very well be on the verge of losing it already.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
I'm not panicking either. I'm just tired of hating the experience of watching united play. It's horrible football, it really is. And I hope we don't hurt the club by blindly sticking by the wrong man. Still not entirely sure what I want us to do

Chelsea don't look like world beaters, because they aren't a group of world beaters, but they don't look like they're genuinely disintegrating as a team, both in terms of football and character. They're pretty much playing to their potential and will be probably in and around there for most of the season before falling finishing 2rd or 3rd.
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I think the transition wasn't smooth enough. He should've kept some of the old back room staff. Think about it, it's been a radical change, we've lost Fergie, Gill...and the back room staff. For a club that prides its professionalism and foresight...it's been an utter shambles.
 
Raoul said:
If he loses the dressing room its curtains. The media narrative questioning whether his job is in trouble will keep snowballing and the fans will turn on him. We're not far from that point.
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We may be at that point tbh.
 
He wasn't negative today. His subs were also spot on. He did nothing wrong at all. In isolation, the loss isn't on him.

However, today it's more clear than ever that whatever is done on the training ground isn't working and that Moyes' tactics and philosophy just isn't right for the club. I can't see how he can succeed here, if I'm honest.
 
Sauxees Moi Hui said:
I think that he'll be sacked if we don't get a top 4 finish. We'll need to sell a new manager with a new project to transfer targets (and to any players who may want to leave, including Rooney).
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I honestly think top 4 is gone now. Arsenal, City and Chelsea are nailed on and then there's Liverpool, Everton and Spurs who'll be battling it out for fourth.

Call it knee-jerk if you want but there isn't one bit of bravery in Moyes and not one bit of fight in the players. There is nothing to indicate that we're capable of going on a run.

Cardiff (A) 2-2
Spurs (A) 2-2
Everton (H) 0-1
Newcastle (H) 0-1

Look at that, for feck sake. 2 points from 12, 4 goals in 4 games, 0 goals in our last two home games. We're fecked.
 
Midfield is shite but the squad isn't this bad, no fecking way. The effort against Arsenal isn't matching up to the effort I've seen today, it's looking more and more like players are playing more for their ego than anything else.
 
OneUnited24 said:
Carrick has been a huge blow and has been vital to our midfield the last few years but you hear things about how Moyes coaching methods have been questioned by certain players and certain ones not happy with his style you have to look at the manager. Sure we can look at Woodward incompetence at getting players in but surely the buck stops at the manager for his tactics and ability to pick the players up.

Moyes is out of his depths I honestly think any other top manager would be able to cope but Moyes is simply not a top manager and I think some of the players think the same. Personally given how direr our team looks I think hes lost the dressing room and im not surprised given the fans have too.
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You say how different it looks but it's always been this bad without Carrick and let's not forget we had to bring back Scholes last year!

Not really heard anything about training methods but Everton last season looked fluid so it worked for them. I don't understand all the comments saying hes negative as apart from the insistence of using Welbeck I don't see any differences in style, only performance.
 
Kag said:
He wasn't negative today. His subs were also spot on. He did nothing wrong at all. In isolation, the loss isn't on him.

However, today it's more clear than ever that whatever is done on the training ground isn't working and that Moyes' tactics and philosophy just isn't right for the club. I can't see how he can succeed here, if I'm honest.
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You just completely contradicted yourself. That performance is on Moyes.
 
His biggest mistake I think has been getting rid of the backroom staff. I know he wanted to be his own man and all that, but why? He was given a 6 year contract, he had plenty of time to be his own man. Having the backroom staff who have experience of Manchester United would have been immensely helpful, it would have eased the transition process, and he could have quite easily introduced his own ideas in time once he had built up a level of comfort here, and perhaps just as importantly, goodwill with the fans. There was no need for him to try to make such huge changes to the team when he had 6 years to do so. All he had to do was keep things ticking over. We were the Champions of England, there was no need for him to change things behind the scenes, its not like we needed a revolution.
 
prateik said:
I don't understand why some of you are so quick to pull the trigger.
Give him a year at least.
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Because he is shit and has shown only negative things since he joined us, he just broke two 40 year old records losing at home to Everton and Newcastle, there are just so many wrong things to say about him, transfers tactics mentality that I cant even be asked, I do feel sorry for him though.
 
If we fail to win the next couple of games then i reckon he will either resign or maybe be forced out......also i just got the feeling the players aren't busting a gut for him and keen on his tactics.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
We have too much quality. This is an abnormally rubbish start for a team of this quality. I don't think it would happen easily with other top managers. We won't lose all stability because we get rid of Moyes in case he's the wrong man for the job. We'd be making the right call.
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So sack Moyes tomorrow and salvage fourth. Is there anyone out there we can get to come in and make sure we do that?

If not, then there's no use.
 
prateik said:
I don't understand why some of you are so quick to pull the trigger.
Give him a year at least.
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We don't need to wait til the end of the season to see we're not finishing top 4.

Even if we scrape it, what evidence is there he's the best man to manage this team, to rebuild the squad and to make us the best team in Europe (where we want to be)?

The appointment was ridiculous in the first place to be honest, now we're left in this mess, there's no right move we can make.
 
gormless said:
His biggest mistake I think has been getting rid of the backroom staff. I know he wanted to be his own man and all that, but why? He was given a 6 year contract, he had plenty of time to be his own man. Having the backroom staff who have experience of Manchester United would have been immensely helpful, it would have eased the transition process, and he could have quite easily introduced his own ideas in time once he had built up a level of comfort here, and perhaps just as importantly, goodwill with the fans. There was no need for him to try to make such huge changes to the team when he had 6 years to do so. All he had to do was keep things ticking over. We were the Champions of England, there was no need for him to change things behind the scenes, its not like we needed a revolution.
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Giggs and Phil Neville??
 
People thinking that lots of shiny new signings in the January window is going to fix everything, are deluded. Those players are not the problem.
 
Raoul said:
If he loses the dressing room its curtains. The media narrative questioning whether his job is in trouble will keep snowballing and the fans will turn on him. We're not far from that point.
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Spot on.

Saf was invincible in that regard, moyes is vulnerable and the players aren't enjoying themselves.
 
DixieDean said:
Oh boy, you guys are in big trouble. Even didn't think it would be this bad. I think you're stuck with him as well. Fergie won't let him be sacked this early.
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If it were my team, and I don't doubt the Glazers are not tolerant of being pushovers, but if the topic of sacking Moyes came up and SAF felt his voice was bigger than mine as the team owner, I would certainly have to remind him who in fact does make the final decision for the club. No disrespect to SAF, but if the owner desires a change it will happen. SAF can resign if he disagrees. Unfortunately, sometimes drastic times call for drastic measures.

I personally would ride out this season and then reassess in May/June. For the good of the club, SAF's opinion on Moyes would and should be irrelevant.
 
Shocking in the last 2 games, and not that it's an excuse but feck me, we're surely due a bit of luck. Hitting the bar, Antias arm stopping the ball heading into the net, RVPs offside goal, 2 huge slices of luck for Toons goal (even if Evra left a lot to be desired)..

I mean, we shouldn't have to rely on luck, but Christ we need something to go our way.
 
That'sHernandez said:
Like who? Name one truly great central midfielder Fergie lost without having a semi-adequate replacement.
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Central midfielder? We have been bitching about our midfield for 7 years now, and now we do this bad, and suddenly we had a great midfield when Fergie was around?

We have lost many players on which our play depended and we still managed to find another way to play. We even lost a BPITW and still won the league.

Please, please, if you want to defend Moyes, leave Fergie out of it.. We didn't have Fergie for a couple of years so you can theorize about "what if THAT happened when Fergie was around?"... The man was in charge of our team for ages and he managed to cope with all kind of problems for over 25 years. And now suddenly we're 3 months into the new season, and Moyes is facing something "Fergie has never faced"?!

Please.
 
prateik said:
I don't understand why some of you are so quick to pull the trigger.
Give him a year at least.
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It's not a necessity to give him a year at all. I thought we should when the season began, but if a manager looks completely hopeless and the team is in free fall under him, it's only right to reconsider his position. I'm not sure myself.
 
prateik said:
I don't understand why some of you are so quick to pull the trigger. Give him a year at least.
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Because people believe that he's not good enough for us and I would agree entirely with that. He's turned the reigning champions into a mid-table side in a matter of months.

We used to laugh at fat Rafa on here and he's ten times the manager Moyes is. That's the reality. He has the potential to absolutely destroy everything that Fergie has built over the years.
 
Revan said:
I have said a couple of months ago that I wouldn't be surprised if we manage to get less points that Everton did under him. He had a team suited to his hoof the ball system, United isn't.
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That was the most annoying thing watching the game. Our tactic seemed to just hoof the ball upfront (to Hernandez?!). The midfield was so feckking poor that Cleverley (TC 23 - I can't pass a ball forward), Jones (charging like a mad man, but I get scared when I have the ball) made Newcastle look like a cultured Spanish outfit
 
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