Moyes So Far!

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Moyes questionable training regime where his Everton sides in the past looked dead in the first half of the season then came strong is happening to United. I suspect after they come back from the off season instead of slowly building up their fitness Moyes puts them through a tough regime which leads the team to be a bit lacklustre as they adjust. As the season wears on the fitness improvements kick in but then its the end of the season and we start again the cycle.

Moyes has been doing this at Everton and he has brought the same mentality to United.

As pointed out by Mockney it seems Moyes is just bringing his old tactics and trying them at United. It seems he has one solution to all problems.
 
akash02 said:
What is beyond acceptable?

I don't think a season out of CL football will have a severe effect on our finances. We are a money making machine and 1 bad year wouldn't make a difference.

For me, Moyes stays in the job regardless of whether we finish top 4 this season. From then on hopefully we'll see Moyes' imprints on the team begin to show and the team progressing
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I am not sure what beyond acceptable is and I hope I never find out.I am just afraid for the first time this season that we have have plenty further to drop before it gets better.It aint good but Moyes must have the chance to build a side, and so I am not thinking remove him, not at all.I think I need to leave this place alone for a few days and go to OT on Saturday and be more positive.
 
Van Piorsing said:
In post match interview he looked like almost laughing when interviewer asked him about disappointing result... a little bit weird reaction... just a bit.
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That's the impression I got too. It was very odd.
 
Salfordlad70 said:
I am not sure what beyond acceptable is and I hope I never find out.I am just afraid for the first time this season that we have have plenty further to drop before it gets better.It aint good but Moyes must have the chance to build a side, and so I am not thinking remove him, not at all.I think I need to leave this place alone for a few days and go to OT on Saturday and be more positive.
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A long ball side?

Every matchday thread when we played against Everton it was always about their physical approach and tactics of lumping the ball into the box. That's all Moyes knows. He's a more polished version of Pulis.
 
the fact that 1000s of people left the ground with what turned out to be 9 minutes left, says enough - there is no belief in the team, no belief in the fans. i ve never seen anything like it, in all my years at the club.
 
smallred said:
the fact that 1000s of people left the ground with what turned out to be 9 minutes left, says enough - there is no belief in the team, no belief in the fans. i ve never seen anything like it, in all my years at the club.
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true, as soon as Everton scored....people were leaving in their droves.......there was this inevitability and knowingness that we weren't going to get the equaliser, that those extra four minutes time weren't going to produce a heightened old Fergie style rally....
 
Ronnie O'Sullivan said:
To me the 70s and 80s were the golden age of music. Anyone with good music taste will tell you that.

Don't tell me you're a Justin Bieber/One direction fan boy. Omg.

Dembele and McCarthy are not bad but they are not United Standard. Moyes has to quickly learn what he has achieved at Everton is Nowhere near acceptable to what he has to achieve at United. Having said that, the owners and CEO better understand that if we are being the 5th (It's true) biggest spenders in the league, then we are going to end up 5th or worse.
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60s and 70s are my era for music :)
think I have heard of Bieber...

Dembele and McCarthy unfortunately are a lot better than the back up midfield players we have.

Crawl before walking and running.

Think if we keep our heads and strengthen in Jan, we will be in good shape. Have said it before I think it will be City or Chelsea. City can spend as they like...so can Chelsea who have a better manager.
 
This thread and in fact season is going to be one ridiculous rollercoaster. We'll have some games like beating Arsenal, then losing sh!T games at home.
And half the season we'll be glad of a game midweek/weekend quickly coming round to make amends!

He's got a whole sh!tload of problems to solve for me.

Obviously the Fellaini thing is a huge one of his making. Him and Carrick wouldn't work unless the front 4 were massively on it. And to be honest other combos of Fellaini and others doesn't look too special either.

First choice centre back pairing? He's not really sure. It's probably Vidic + 1, but the whole lot have looked a bit underwhelming.

Wingers. A couple of years ago we had a great set all in form. Now, you have Valencia still underpar and cautious, and seems to fire every cross in at maximum velocity on the ground, rather than the old way of picking someone out.
Nani, despite signing a 5 year deal can't get into the starting line up. Young is about 5th or 6th choice now.

VP/Rooney/Kagawa It's hard to accommodate the 3 successfully. And playing 2 up front seems hard too.
Now VP seems to have a potential real medium term niggle.
Hernandez, not getting much of a look in, and seemingly not looking too happy from his body language and performances.

Conclusion? Strap in people, it's going to be a bumpy ride.

But roll on Saturday, even with VP,Carrick and Rooney out. :nervous:
 
RvP won the title for us last year, the alarms bells were ringing then, but it was ok because we won. We needed to do a lot more in the transfer window than we did this year, but we failed.

We're going to limp through this season and we have to accept this.

I think the team is in need of a thorough rebuild. Will he have the bollocks to do it? I don't think he will.
 
kouroux said:
In terms of tactics and in terms of motivating his players, I'd say he's a bit lost yeah.
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Maybe he thought he didn't need to motivate these players, everyone keeps saying they are winners and used to winning, maybe he thought they were self motivated.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
Maybe he thought he didn't need to motivate these players, everyone keeps saying they are winners and used to winning, maybe he thought they were self motivated.
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The more we go into the season and the more SAF's greatness is evident, I mean it didn't need the team to be doing this badly for us to notice but still. The way he managed to win the league with this broken team is amazing.
 
Sadly, I think its becoming more and more obvious as every game goes by, that Moyes is just completely out of his depth. I actually feel quite sorry for him. He really should never have been put in this position in the first place.
 
Sam said:
Sadly, I think its becoming more and more obvious as every game goes by, that Moyes is just completely out of his depth. I actually feel quite sorry for him. He really should never have been put in this position in the first place.
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I'm starting to feel exactly the same now... Looks so clueless at times. But as with any other manager, i hope he gets a full season, before even start to think about replacing him, no matter how traumatic is our style of play these days. After all he had the balls to come to us on the first place.

If after one season, we don't have at least a playing style suitable to the eyes, well, maybe then its time to look for a bigger fish.
 
kouroux said:
The more we go into the season and the more SAF's greatness is evident, I mean it didn't need the team to be doing this badly for us to notice but still. The way he managed to win the league with this broken team is amazing.
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I start to believe last season was actually one of Fergie greatest achievement.
 
finneh said:
How anyone can look at our team yesterday and think it was an offensive team set out to beat Everton is beyond me. Either the manager is setting us out as a team that's difficult to beat and failing miserably or he is incapable of recognising the strengths and weaknesses of the personnel available; either of which are failures firmly laid at Moyes' feet. I'm not saying playing an inherently defensively game means you will never dominate possession or never had good chances. What I am saying is that it invites pressure. It is no coincidence we keep conceding late goals, as we are now on the other end of the stick. We used to relentlessly push teams for a goal until the final minute; and the last 15 minutes teams are obviously most vulnerable, as they are physically and mentally tired. Because of how we are setting up we are now the team that is on the ropes and physically/mentally tired and vulnerable.

Obviously occasionally teams scored a few goals at Old Trafford under Fergie. But how many times did we concede in the last 15 minutes on average? Compare this to the amount of times we scored in the last 15 minutes and you'll probably see a trend. I imagine as an aggregate we usually win at least 15 points a season in the last 15-20 minutes. Currently we have dropped 7 points (+ 2 in the CL) in the last 15 minutes and another 1 if you extend it to 30 minutes. Compare this to how many points we have gained in the last 15: zip, nada, nil, zilch, bupkiss.

I assume you just believe that the players are playing shit and nothing else has changed from last season?
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The proof is there, we could have scored more than once in the first half alone.. Why he would set us up for a 0-0 at Old Trafford, against Everton... I'm not a huge fan and was against his appointment, but to think that of him is to think he's fecking retarded. I honestly don't think that's a team Fergie is unlikely to have played. He loved Valencia even when he was horribly out of form and Welbeck started on the left in countless home games as well.

Even if we hadn't created the chances or got at their defence (which we did), it would most likely have been a case of playing poorly and being outpassed by a team receiving better coaching than setting up the team without the idea of scoring.

We had plenty of nervy finishes to games over the years, and yes we did concede late goals then too, but most of the time we just defended better or took one of the chances we had whilst we were ahead in the game (like could have happened against Southampton and Cardiff), but we've not had the luck or we've lacked the quality.

Do we reckon Moyes had a sudden, and temporary change in mentality for the Leverkusen away game? Did he say before the game "alright lads, tonight we're going to try and score, and not only that, more than once, but don't get used to it, on Saturday it's back to the usual of defending and praying we nick a goal". Or is it more likely, we stumbled upon a good performance of which he'd like the team to play every single game?

The problem is likely the coaching in training is different (and worse) - there's not been an effort to improve us technically and have us playing as a unit in the same way the top teams in Europe do (or even just think what Martinez and Pochettino have done to their respective teams - and they're not even in the bracket of manager we'd have been looking at), as are the style and instructions they're playing under, and the team selections/choice of subs haven't been good (though not necessarily defensive).
 
RedRonaldo said:
I start to believe last season was actually one of Fergie greatest achievement.
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The team is not that bad, not so bad that we should be dropping points at Cardiff and losing at Old Trafford to teams like West Brom.

The fact that thousands streamed out of Old Trafford after Everton scored reflects the feeling of hopelessness at United right now. Nobody believes, nobody is inspired and that is a big part to do with the uncertainty about Moyes and that Moyes gives off.

Sir Alex had the confidence both in himself and in his players to pull rabbits out of the hat and that's why they did. They weren't always the best players but they were definitely the best motivated. Yes, Sir Alex had some advantages over Moyes in that he came from Aberdeen a proven winner but other managers have come into big clubs without a record and managed to prove they can gee people up so it shouldn't be impossible.

Nobody wants Moyes to fail. Whether he does or not will depend on his man management and motivational skills.
 
#07 said:
The team is not that bad, not so bad that we should be dropping points at Cardiff and losing at Old Trafford to teams like West Brom.

The fact that thousands streamed out of Old Trafford after Everton scored reflects the feeling of hopelessness at United right now. Nobody believes, nobody is inspired and that is a big part to do with the uncertainty about Moyes and that Moyes gives off.

Sir Alex had the confidence both in himself and in his players to pull rabbits out of the hat and that's why they did. They weren't always the best players but they were definitely the best motivated. Yes, Sir Alex had some advantages over Moyes in that he came from Aberdeen a proven winner but other managers have come into big clubs without a record and managed to prove they can gee people up so it shouldn't be impossible.

Nobody wants Moyes to fail. Whether he does or not will depend on his man management and motivational skills.
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Under Fergie we didn't perhaps have the best squad but we had the best mindset and mentality by far and that got us through some tight spots. The players would back themselves to get 2 goals in 5 minutes even if they played shit. Under Moyes we are playing shit but have no self belief whatsoever - his teamtalks must be dire.
 
Commadus said:
Yes, Yes, Yes.

They actually have an idea of how to play football and love this club. Moyes please do the honourable thing and resign.
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'Retire' if the things go on like this. There won't be plenty of offers for him if he doesn't rejuvenate himself here. Benitez was much more succesful than him and after the horror spell at Inter had to wait 2 years in order to get another job.
 
Red Dreams said:
if we replace him...I want Ole and Gary Neville in charge.
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Commadus said:
Yes, Yes, Yes.

They actually have an idea of how to play football and love this club. Moyes please do the honourable thing and resign.
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Someone like that, yes.

You want it to be a Guardiola type appointment where the senior players like your Xavi's and Puyol's are old enough to remember the brilliance of the ex-player but weren't ever old enough to be regarded as anything more than his juniors. The Ole-Neville dynamic might not work cos the senior players all played with them as equals rather than looked up to them as authorities. Ideally it'd be someone who was a senior player in the Double Winners of 1994 or the Treble team that was a leader in that side. But of the leaders in those sides there are no obvious candidates. Once upon a time you'd have said Keano...

Shame Robbo's managerial career never progressed after Boro. Even Giggsy is young enough to have looked up to him! :lol:
 
If we do replace Moyes at some point, I want a manager with experience of actually winning things at a high level. This summer saw Guardiola, Mourinho and Ancelotti all moving to new clubs, all proven winners. That's the calibre I wanted us to aim for at the time and if Moyes does fail here that's the calibre I'll definitely want us to aim for then.

Hopefully it doesn't come to that though.
 
kouroux said:
The more we go into the season and the more SAF's greatness is evident, I mean it didn't need the team to be doing this badly for us to notice but still. The way he managed to win the league with this broken team is amazing.
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How is this team "broken" ?!
 
Quiet proud of the Caf I have to say.

We've all backed him and giving him all the support in the world. And obviously will continue to do so but it's taken 6 months for the panic button to be well and truly pressed. And it's not unwarranted.

I genuinely thought you all, myself included, would lose our shit after the City game but have to take my hat off to the lot of you.
 
I am more or less in agreement with Kouroux's post, but as far as the broken team is concerned, I am not in agreement. When a team has been used to a certain manager over a certain period of time, they play a certain way. This season is just a season where the players and management team get to know each other and the way that they play. That is all. As for Sir Alex's greatness, that is clearly obvious. The way I see it, we have had great players, we have had average players and we have had bad players. However, we have always been capable of winning something. The Cantona's, Gigg's, Ronaldo's, Rooney, Scholes, Neville's or Schmeichel's. However, without Sir Alex guiding what was a successful ship with his style of management, I don't think any of them would have been successful elsewhere, since Sir Alex was always capable of getting the best, even out of the most mediocre player. It was Sir Alex that made the difference between success and failure.
 
Proud_Lyon said:
I am more or less in agreement with Kouroux's post, but as far as the broken team is concerned, I am not in agreement. When a team has been used to a certain manager over a certain period of time, they play a certain way. This season is just a season where the players and management team get to know each other and the way that they play. That is all. As for Sir Alex's greatness, that is clearly obvious. The way I see it, we have had great players, we have had average players and we have had bad players. However, we have always been capable of winning something. The Cantona's, Gigg's, Ronaldo's, Rooney, Scholes, Neville's or Schmeichel's. However, without Sir Alex guiding what was a successful ship with his style of management, I don't think any of them would have been successful elsewhere, since Sir Alex was always capable of getting the best, even out of the most mediocre player. It was Sir Alex that made the difference between success and failure.
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Not buying that mate.

All the players you mentioned either had the ability to be world class or already were. And they all had one thing in common. The drive to be a success...You can't drill that into a person. It has to come from within
 
Proud_Lyon said:
I am more or less in agreement with Kouroux's post, but as far as the broken team is concerned, I am not in agreement. When a team has been used to a certain manager over a certain period of time, they play a certain way. This season is just a season where the players and management team get to know each other and the way that they play. That is all. As for Sir Alex's greatness, that is clearly obvious. The way I see it, we have had great players, we have had average players and we have had bad players. However, we have always been capable of winning something. The Cantona's, Gigg's, Ronaldo's, Rooney, Scholes, Neville's or Schmeichel's. However, without Sir Alex guiding what was a successful ship with his style of management, I don't think any of them would have been successful elsewhere, since Sir Alex was always capable of getting the best, even out of the most mediocre player. It was Sir Alex that made the difference between success and failure.
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Moyes' Everton played under him for what 10, 11 years? Martinez has changed the way they play in the same amount of time Moyes has had at United, if not less. Doesn't wash.
 
Proud_Lyon said:
I am more or less in agreement with Kouroux's post, but as far as the broken team is concerned, I am not in agreement. When a team has been used to a certain manager over a certain period of time, they play a certain way. This season is just a season where the players and management team get to know each other and the way that they play. That is all. As for Sir Alex's greatness, that is clearly obvious. The way I see it, we have had great players, we have had average players and we have had bad players. However, we have always been capable of winning something. The Cantona's, Gigg's, Ronaldo's, Rooney, Scholes, Neville's or Schmeichel's. However, without Sir Alex guiding what was a successful ship with his style of management, I don't think any of them would have been successful elsewhere, since Sir Alex was always capable of getting the best, even out of the most mediocre player. It was Sir Alex that made the difference between success and failure.
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Everton had been under Moyes for 11 years and they are playing better despite losing their 'magnificent' manager, 3/4 of its coaching staff and a 27m rated midfielder. Why shouldn't we be at least amongst the top 4?
 
.Rossi said:
Not buying that mate.

All the players you mentioned either had the ability to be world class or already were. And they all had one thing in common. The drive to be a success...You can't drill that into a person. It has to come from within
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You have misunderstood the post mate. I am saying that he was the one who gave them that one little push, that one part of him that made them think they were capable of beating any team on any given occasion. Sir Alex had that belief in his players and this was also evident at Aberdeen given the players he had there too when they beat Real Madrid, and finally stopped the Glasgow monopoly.
 
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