Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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The supporters Are the club. Managers and players come and go...the supporters remain forever. The club is nothing to do with the owners..they just own what is on the balance sheet.
The consumers are just paying customers.
I'm not looking down on the consumers. Just differentiating between the two. I want to correct a misconception by the way. Those who follow United through thick and thin are not all well to do. United is part of their life. Charlton was right. He is not saying that is all United is about though.
The consumers are just paying customers.
I'm not looking down on the consumers. Just differentiating between the two. I want to correct a misconception by the way. Those who follow United through thick and thin are not all well to do. United is part of their life. Charlton was right. He is not saying that is all United is about though.
I fully agree with this. I don't have a problem with people who are critical of Moyes' dispositions - or even skeptical as to whether he is the right man for the job. That's fine. Many wanted someone else - and I'm not going to categorically say they were wrong. We don't know that yet - it's early days.
I find the impatience (as I see it) of some fans annoying, though. And I find the sheer, relentless negativity of others again...well, just bloody awful. They have seemingly never even thought about giving the man a chance - and they refuse to see an upside to anything he says or does accordingly. It's tiresome.
nice one mate....
Thank you, chief. 
Typical Moyes: Small time. I bet Pep has one of them sofas with a chaise end.
Yep, real supporters will support the club no matter what. They also want the club to do well though, that's part of being a fan as well. Fans who say things like "a spell in mid-table will do the club good, get rid of these spoiled fake fans" irritate the feck out of me. How retarded is it to look forward to a spell in the wilderness just so they can prove they're "real" fans? Wanting the club to do badly just so they can be smug and superior? As bad, if not worse, than the fairweather fans they despise.
Its hard to separate what the club is from that element of giving hardworking people some form of escape from the grind of everyday life.
This is something that Sir Matt (and admittedly, Bill Shankley) were always very keen about as I see the history. They felt like their sides should be there for the people of their cities to give them something to rise above their everyday concerns.
Right now, as it has been for a lot of people for decades, football is that part of life that you box off from the rest. Box off from bills, box off from taxes, box off from worrying about if you're gonna have a job in a week, a month or a year. The last thing a person in that position wants is for the experience of football to become just another thing that sucks the life out of you.
Nobody expects United to win all the time. What people want is to be lifted above the other stuff. Thrills, excitement, something decent to talk about. People aren't gonna go off and support some other club because, we all know, that ain't how it works. What the moaners among us want is for that magic of Man Utd that lets you 'BELIEVE' for an hour and a half every few days or every weekend to come back.
Aye - but then I don't think many actually mean that literally. It's more of a "well, at least some of the worst glory hunters will bugger off" type of grunt than an actual desire to see us become a mid-table club for the sake of reaching some bizarre "moral" high ground. We haven't been a mid-table club in any real sense since before WW2 - I would think that's an alien concept to most United fans, whether they consider themselves "real" or not.
Same with Liverpool, really. You don't see many scousers relishing being out of contention - they're dreaming of world domination, feeling entitled to it, even.
We do NOT want the club to do badly, but there are moments when we will have good spells as well as bad spells. What I don't like are the fans who want success straight away. I can remember us all laughing at Barcelona and Real Madrid fans because of their attitude if nothing goes their way i.e. get rid of the manager, bring in a new one, if he isn't successful, let us bring in another one to rectify the mistake. We are becoming the very thing that we despise; a fan that wants instant success. Another thing, I might not be the best example, but I can assure you there are fans of Sunday league teams who are willing to stay out in the rain or snow to cheer their local team on. Should they lose, there will be moaning of course, however, you can bet your ass they will be there for the next match. Just as grassroot football exists, so do grassroot supporters who are willing to accept a win, draw or a loss. I don't have a negative attitude, but I do not have an arrogant attitude either. I wish I could say that we are going to win every match, but that isn't true.
the truth is the game has changed so much. For those of us who grew up supporting United years ago....we are fighting for the club's soul it would seem. Its all money. With that demand for success has come fans who find it unable to accept anything less.
Exactly right. Football is a form of entertainment. Which leads back to the fact that people would be willing to give Moyes the benefit of the doubt if United played good football.
All of that's fine and that comment wasn't directed at you. I did see at least one poster here say he'd look forward to us being a mid-table team if it meant the fake fans left, though. That's not accepting that club will inevitably go through dips, it's happily anticipating a dip just to get rid of the natural product of the success we've been so lucky to have over the years. As always there's a middle ground between the two extremes. I was just pointing out that anyone who'd happily see the club do worse just so fairweather fans (who are basically harmless) leave are elitist twerps. As are people who assume that match going fans are also better fans, or that it's only younger fans who have been spoiled by our success. They should be called out in the same way the idiots who are demanding Moyes be sacked are.
What's going to happen if we lose or draw to Newcastle at home?
Moyes' team has beaten Leverkusen 5-0... we should not forget that... he's a very capable manager... he and the players needs to find a consistent approach together... and that will take its time and toll... in DM I trust
Moyes' team has beaten Leverkusen 5-0... we should not forget that... he's a very capable manager... he and the players needs to find a consistent approach together... and that will take its time and toll... in DM I trust
And Arsenal.
But then a draw and a loss means he's terrible. He's finding his feet. The team is major problems. He'll get it together.
Quite logically, the narrative among fans and media about whether or not he's the right man will intensify. Just look at the many Moyes threads running in the United forum. Similar discussions are probably taking place in offices, schools, and many other places. He desperately needs to win this game to ease the pressure.
Yes he is capable but he needs to start showing it consistently rather a match here and there. I'm still on the I dont know fence.Moyes' team has beaten Leverkusen 5-0... we should not forget that... he's a very capable manager... he and the players needs to find a consistent approach together... and that will take its time and toll... in DM I trust
That's true but he needs to do more than just win games at this point to convince the masses. He's expected, rightly or wrongly, to win match after match in style with attacking tactics, clean sheets and brilliant substitutions while being charismatic in his press conferences and delivering new toys in January. Quite a task.
He needs to show some pragmatism. Drop his ideals and just try to grind out points rather than use similar tactics to those that he used at Everton.
It'll be a massive ask considering Rooney is out along with Van Persie and Newcastle have been good as of late.
According to SkyBet, Moyes is the 6th favourite to be the next manager in the premier league to be sacked.
Chris Hughton is favourite while Villas Boas is second favourite.
Chris Hughton is favourite while Villas Boas is second favourite.
I actually agree with this.
I think I've read maybe 2 or 3 posters that have actually called for him to be sacked right now, which is surprising (there were more City fans for instance calling for Mancini to be sacked, despite winning them their first title). The majority are in favour of backing him in January and watching him grow this season. Obviously I, like many others, believe that if he doesn't get 4th with this team then he shouldn't be given the chance to build anything. But that again is a very logical opinion that wouldn't be even the slightest bit knee-jerk.
Getting fourth at United is akin to keeping Aston Villa in the division. If as a manager you get relegated at Villa, you'd be sacked. It's an action that prima facie means you aren't up to the job.
Unfortunately, that penny has not dropped with him...and why will it? He brought his whole Everton backroom staff with him - he doesnt know anything else.
I'd say he needs to stop being so pragmatic and start trying to get out the natural abilities of this side. Everything about us is shackled and full of graft despite amazing individual quality.
The tweets were deleted and the account no longer exists. It was someone trying to troll.
I'd say the complete opposite. He needs to stop trying to grind out points and play a more expansive game and take more risks.
He did exactly that against Everton and it didn't work out. We ended up leaving more space in our half than we have all season and could have been punished before we were.
He is clearly trying to get the team to press more. It started off with only Rooney doing it, then a couple of others joined in and the midfield didn't. Now the midfield are trying to do it but the back four aren't. It takes time to adapt a squad who have only known one manager here to play in a different way.
The problem is I really don't think our team is suited to a pressing game. If you look at our players, they aren't that agile. They rely more on the knowledge of the game and experience as well as awareness to get in the right positions to do their jobs. If we start pressing and pushing up, there will be big spaces behind Vidic/Evans that a fast striker would easily make use of.
I do agree though, that whatever you do, first and foremost you have to do it as a team, and we aren't right now. If you're going to press, it has to be a joint effort because otherwise you leave big gaps which is what happened against Everton. I think Everton is a tough game to look at though because we actually played better than a lot of games this season, and really we should have scored and it is disappointing we didn't.
He doesn't have this in his DNA
If what he's been doing is grinding out points, then he probably won't lat very long.
Well, he hasn't exactly been playing attractive football either, or going out and out to play a free flowing attacking game in any case.
He's nervous, and he's under pressure. Natural tendency in a human is to therefore become defensive. What I would say is he is trying to get results. Not by playing attacking football, but not just trying to grind them either. He's defensive in nature, we all know that. There is a difference between that and grinding though.
Right now he just needs to win; how it happens is irrelevant.
I don't think anyone answered you. I was there and stayed until the end. I didn't hear any boos at all. Some fans left a bit early (not long after the goal) but tbh on weekday matches people start filing out before the final whistle anyway. Quite a few fans stayed and clapped the players at the end. Fans were audibly a bit disgruntled with Fellaini at times in the second half.
He didn't do that at Everton either though. That's his norm.
According to SkyBet, Moyes is the 6th favourite to be the next manager in the premier league to be sacked.
Chris Hughton is favourite while Villas Boas is second favourite.
That's just daft. Unless relegation becomes a real possibility, which will never happen of course, Moyes stays until the end of the season. At least.
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