The next 5 games are going to tell us a lot. You don't need a tactical mastermind to beat the teams that we are set to face. If we fail even here, my finger will be pointed more towards the players than the manager.
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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I can understand Lumsden, Round and Woods. But Phil Neville? No. No experience as a coach and he's brought in to coach the likes of RVP and Rooney.
Had Wenger not won so many trophies at the start of his time at Arsenal he'd have gone the way of Bruce Rioch.
People are judging Moyes on his results when they say fourth would be huge for the team looking as it does now. There is no evidence, based on current form, that the squad will go on a long run of wins. MUTV had been talking about our recent 'unbeaten' run as if it were massive, when in fact we've been dropping points to sides we should be beating if we're going to be competing with Arsenal, Chelsea, City, Liverpool etc. There's so much clutching at straws its unbelievable.
It'd be unsurprising to be in ninth or eighth at Xmas.
I think that's a very good point, that. People forget what makes our club stand out against the others. Some people only support this club to see them win, or because they win. But to me, there is much more about us than just winning. It's a big important factor for us, but it's not the end of it if we go a few seasons rebuilding.
Again this was said before the West Brom game...
...that we lost.
There are no signs that Moyes is going to turn this around. I'm not saying he should go but I think we need to get real about what we're going to be able to achieve this year. Our 'trophy' is fourth. Where Arsenal have been for a decade, that's where we are going.
Do you honestly think that Phil Neville is coaching these players? Make valid points at least.
It's been quite clear for a very long time that our squad has problems. We've been bemoaning our shitty football and lack of proper midfield for years now. Under SAF that didn't matter because somehow he managed to win. The difference between Fergie and Moyes is blatantly enough that our weaknesses are now exposed enough that we don't grind out games any more. None of this is revelatory, surely?
I think when you're stepping out into the limelight and into a massive job like he was you would be well advised to keep on some of the staff who had previously brought success to your new club. As a benefit to you as the manager if anything. The staff had been there done it through good and bad times. I can only imagine how Round, Lumsden and co feel today. In over their head I bet.
People need to get behind the manager, I understand they are frustrated but the team need the backing. Its not so long ago we beat Leverkusen 5-0 in Germany!
Everton played good football last year too. But my main gripe is with you saying Moyes held them back. Don't you remember how bad they were before he came in? Ridiculous.
You're right its terrible. To go from winning the title at a canter with 89 points to competing for fourth place is shocking.
People can make all the swipes they want at the squad. Its not so bad that it should be eclipsed by Arsenal, Chelsea, City AND Liverpool just because we changed our manager.
You're right - our squad is still very good.
But what you're clearly oblivious to is the fact that changing our manager is a massive, massive change.
Fact is, you're going hellbent to try and convince people that Moyes is shit, and that if they don't think so their opinion is invalid, or they are crazy.
Moyes had made a huge step up, and he'll admit its a very difficult adjustment. NO ONE, would have found replacing Sir Alex anything less than daunting. Personally I wanted Mourinho, but he's a short term fix, who doesnt leave clubs in the best financial health - which isnt an option under the Glaziers.
We can, and surely will, pick at the small details over and over. The bottom line is we've put our faith in Moyes, and its a long term project. He's not an arrogant man, he works tirelessly, and he's absolutely prepared to learn. This combination will come good. Sure last night was another huge kick in the balls, but we'll learn from it, and bounce back.
Learning from mistakes only makes us stronger - simple rule of life right there
We can, and surely will, pick at the small details over and over. The bottom line is we've put our faith in Moyes, and its a long term project. He's not an arrogant man, he works tirelessly, and he's absolutely prepared to learn. This combination will come good. Sure last night was another huge kick in the balls, but we'll learn from it, and bounce back.
Learning from mistakes only makes us stronger - simple rule of life right there
Sacking the staff probably wasn't as bad as being made out. For a start, I think De Gea has actually improved. He's become a beast aerially. It's hard to really say how the rest has been effected, though Rooney finally looks fit.
Really? Pretty sure Pep Guardiola kept most of Bayern's staff despite his staff was much better than Everton's staff.
our players at the moment are not playing under a manager who instills a confidence (through massive success) a never give up attitude and yes a fear factor that made Ferguson worth an extra ten points a season for United. You just can't buy that. Not saying it couldn't happen for Moyes, but it won't be anytime soon that is for sure. Prime example is last night...with still a few minutes to go and four minutes of extra time, we no way play the united "play to the last minute and never give in" attitude. There was an inevitability about the result permeating throughout the whole team..apart from the odd one or two...
I made this point and was told I was hellbent on saying Moyes is a bad manager.
I had hoped the comeback against Stoke was the return of the old Man Utd spirit but the belief is so obviously absent from the eyes of our players. To pretend that has nothing to do with Moyes is denying the obvious truth.
In terms of tactics and in terms of motivating his players, I'd say he's a bit lost yeah.
Fair enough assessment...However, can people stop with this holier than thou attitude in regards United?!?!
1995, 2001 and 2004, the board were looking to get rid of Fergie. One member even asked him to step down at an AGM.
Don't try and tell it as if we're different to other clubs.
This isn't what we were trying to do at all.. Some people can't tell the difference between playing shit and playing defensively. We had them pinned back for like a half hour spell in the first half where Kagawa had a one on one smothered by Howard, Giggs had a header just wide, the ball rolled through Rooney's legs 5 yards from goal, as well as other openings.
Teams came out with no fear at Old Trafford all the time in Ferguson's last years. Southampton played us off the park, Everton themselves in the 4-4 had no fear. Teams were taking the lead at OT countless times last year after they made a good start, did them thinking they were equals to us make any difference then?
Was really annoyed/depressed yesterday but feeling much better today.
A season of no CL football won't hurt us as long as it does not become a constant thing. Moyes deserves another summer to build the team with the players he wants and I trust Moyes to deliver.
A season of no CL football won't hurt us as long as it does not become a constant thing. Moyes deserves another summer to build the team with the players he wants and I trust Moyes to deliver.
I reckon Moyes will get three seasons. This one is like, well transition, new manager staff...understandable that we might not win anything. Season two, Moyes starts to buy and build the team around his own ideas/vision. Don't win anything that season then it will be called some 'bedding in' season. Season three and not win anything....
cheerio Moysey.....
It really will.
I agree. With Sir Alex and Sir Bobby upstairs Moyes will get every chance to prove himself even it comes at the expense of a couple of barren years
I don't know how long...But there is no possible way he'll be here that long if he needs three years to turn a championship winning team into...Well...A championship winning team
That could be a problem.SAF chose him and his dismissal will challenge a SAF decision, and so could we have a situation where Moyes hangs around for way too long so as not to offend Fergusons ego? Moyes should be given time but if it goes beyond what is acceptable, the decision must me made.
Will they tolerate the loss of this CL revenue. I think not.
- Playoffs: €2,100,000
- Base fee for group stage: €8,600,000
- Group match victory: €1,000,000
- Group match draw: €500,000
- Round of 16: €3,500,000
- Quarter-finals: €3,900,000
- Semi-finals: €4,900,000
- Losing finalist: €6,500,000
- Winning the Final: €10,500,000
This is a very valid point no matter what some would have you believe. The club have never had a "sack him" mentality with managers. Quite the opposite actually.
What is beyond acceptable?
I don't think a season out of CL football will have a severe effect on our finances. We are a money making machine and 1 bad year wouldn't make a difference.
For me, Moyes stays in the job regardless of whether we finish top 4 this season. From then on hopefully we'll see Moyes' imprints on the team begin to show and the team progressing
well..I reckon Fergie can backtrack a bit if it's obvious things are not working out....rather like, I believe, he has now with Rooney by saying well..er..he didn't say exactly same "i want a transfer"...but it felt like it...!!
They stick with SAF. That's very true. But, before that, they were not shy to sack a manager. If they feel that he has lost the faith of his players and that he's not the man for the job, he'll be gone.
I hate this thread. Not nothing against anyone who posts in it, though a number will be wankers I'm sure, but it just seems that if we win the thread is full of "haha, told you so!!" if we lose it's full of "haha, told you so!!"
Should be renamed the 'Last thing that happened is all that matters" thread
Should be renamed the 'Last thing that happened is all that matters" thread
Sure but Atkinson was sacked when we were 2nd from bottom, Sexton before him was sacked after 4 trophy less seasons. Moyes will be given every chance to prove himself and anyone hoping/thinking he'll be sacked if we finish outside the top 4 is going to be disappointed.
How anyone can look at our team yesterday and think it was an offensive team set out to beat Everton is beyond me. Either the manager is setting us out as a team that's difficult to beat and failing miserably or he is incapable of recognising the strengths and weaknesses of the personnel available; either of which are failures firmly laid at Moyes' feet. I'm not saying playing an inherently defensively game means you will never dominate possession or never had good chances. What I am saying is that it invites pressure. It is no coincidence we keep conceding late goals, as we are now on the other end of the stick. We used to relentlessly push teams for a goal until the final minute; and the last 15 minutes teams are obviously most vulnerable, as they are physically and mentally tired. Because of how we are setting up we are now the team that is on the ropes and physically/mentally tired and vulnerable.
Obviously occasionally teams scored a few goals at Old Trafford under Fergie. But how many times did we concede in the last 15 minutes on average? Compare this to the amount of times we scored in the last 15 minutes and you'll probably see a trend. I imagine as an aggregate we usually win at least 15 points a season in the last 15-20 minutes. Currently we have dropped 7 points (+ 2 in the CL) in the last 15 minutes and another 1 if you extend it to 30 minutes. Compare this to how many points we have gained in the last 15: zip, nada, nil, zilch, bupkiss.
I assume you just believe that the players are playing shit and nothing else has changed from last season?
In post match interview he looked like almost laughing when interviewer asked him about disappointing result... a little bit weird reaction... just a bit.
I'm not going to fall into extreme reaction vortex but more and more he's becoming a riddle despite I really like him as a person and already gave him respect for his solid job in Everton and team he built there is above decent.
I'm not going to fall into extreme reaction vortex but more and more he's becoming a riddle despite I really like him as a person and already gave him respect for his solid job in Everton and team he built there is above decent.
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