I don't know what you mean, but he is very right.Very artful that Bob. You can take your bloody tongue out of your cheek now.
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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We've had experience in chopping and changing managers and constantly moaning at them, you guys haven't so it often comes across as though you dont want to give him the chance. Whilst it worked for us in one sense, I would bet that had we had one of either Jose or maybe Ancelotti over the entire period 04-13 we would have won more than 3 league titles,stability breeds success in the top clubs that are well backed and have strong financial support.
Too many are judging him on the achievements of last season, thats the problem, you cant, without SAF the board has to be wiped clean.
Judge next season on this one, if no title challenge happens this season that doesnt mean Moyes has underachieved just because last year these players won the title comfortably, because he wasn't at United last season. If you finished 4th this season and then regressed to 7th next season and then carried on ala Liverpool you would have due cause for concern and questioning, but as it stands a lot of you seem to be still living in the bubble of exceptional success Fergie gave you.
Ideally both would help =p.
How is that funny? Last season, if we had Yaya instead of Carrick, we would not have won the title nearly as easily. He doesn't play at his best often.
If I could choose 1 player for a big game, I'd go for Toure but if I had to pick a player to play all 38 games I'd rather have Carrick.
Big difference.
http://www.football365.com/news/11667/9054909/Is-Rafael-the-key-
Sums Moyes philosophy up - its push it wide cross it in dross.
The most obvious feature of David Moyes's coaching philosophy is his emphasis upon width - asking his central midfielders to spread the play, and encouraging the full-backs forward to create overloads with the wide midfielders.
In fact, United are attempting more crosses per game than any top-flight team, up from fifth last season. Meanwhile, the number of through-balls and short passes per game are down, reaffirming this shift in emphasis.
Recent research by StatsBomb revealed that Manchester United create a higher percentage of their opportunities from deep positions on either flank than anyone else. "United, at 22 per cent, are the only team to create more than 19 per cent of their chances from these zones, which is not a great claim to fame as this zone has a low probability of key passes resulting in goals,"
Sums Moyes philosophy up - its push it wide cross it in dross.
The most obvious feature of David Moyes's coaching philosophy is his emphasis upon width - asking his central midfielders to spread the play, and encouraging the full-backs forward to create overloads with the wide midfielders.
In fact, United are attempting more crosses per game than any top-flight team, up from fifth last season. Meanwhile, the number of through-balls and short passes per game are down, reaffirming this shift in emphasis.
Recent research by StatsBomb revealed that Manchester United create a higher percentage of their opportunities from deep positions on either flank than anyone else. "United, at 22 per cent, are the only team to create more than 19 per cent of their chances from these zones, which is not a great claim to fame as this zone has a low probability of key passes resulting in goals,"
He's mediocre, anything on his CV and on display so far proven that.
The only thing that he's allegedly good at is all in our wishful mind
The only thing that he's allegedly good at is all in our wishful mind
Spot on.
Basically this.
On the topic now, does anyone feel surprised that we are first on crosses and fifth on hoof the ball in the league?
Given the state of our midfield and the fact that we almost always play with 2 strikers, its hardly a surprise.
I forgot that last year we played a midfield three of Xavi-Iniesta-Busquets and used only a striker in attack.
If many on this forum could see our glaring weakness then why did Moyes sit on his hands for so long only then to bring in a panic buy at an absurd price.
The longer the season goes on the more excuses get rolled out.
our football is basic, spread wide, cross in, there is no subtlety to it, ontop of that we have two misfiring wingers.
I like David Moyes, i think he is a good manager, I like his style and integrity.
One can see he is strong person and he will not allow players to boss him. At the moment he was appointed I understood it would difficult to succeed Fergie and have been patient.
Despite that I have more and more doubts:
· * His approach in the transfer window…. First at handling the media. My personal preference is that our mangers don’t reveal what our targets are. It’s none of press or fans’ business until it’s done and dusted.
I hope he keep silent next time he wants to make some business.
· * His transfer targets – either not realistic or simply mind boggling. The only player who I thought was feasible and good enough was Contrao.
· * Playing personnel- can’t understand why Young got so many chances yet Nani hardly ever plays, can’t understand why Valencia is in the team yet he offers very little. Can’t understand why Young got chances yet Anderson (Im not a fan) hasn’t got a proper kick of a ball in this team. Why does Moyes ignores Fabio…he can’t be that bad!
· * Moyes’ teams are supposed to be super fit- so far we haven’t looked so bar one game (Arsenal). We have been lethargic, slow, lackluster . Maybe we are over trained?
· * Tactics- sorry so far Moyes has not proved to be up to dated. It seem that his football ideas are taken from watching football in the 80’s and 90’s.
· * Team cohesion- I’m yet to see what is Moyes’ general idea for this team. So far we look like a disjointed Fergie’s team not Moyes’ project. I can’t identify what is Moyes’ plan and and expected end product.
I will support Moyes but I become disillusioned about his quality. I hope he gets the CL spot.
One can see he is strong person and he will not allow players to boss him. At the moment he was appointed I understood it would difficult to succeed Fergie and have been patient.
Despite that I have more and more doubts:
· * His approach in the transfer window…. First at handling the media. My personal preference is that our mangers don’t reveal what our targets are. It’s none of press or fans’ business until it’s done and dusted.
I hope he keep silent next time he wants to make some business.
· * His transfer targets – either not realistic or simply mind boggling. The only player who I thought was feasible and good enough was Contrao.
· * Playing personnel- can’t understand why Young got so many chances yet Nani hardly ever plays, can’t understand why Valencia is in the team yet he offers very little. Can’t understand why Young got chances yet Anderson (Im not a fan) hasn’t got a proper kick of a ball in this team. Why does Moyes ignores Fabio…he can’t be that bad!
· * Moyes’ teams are supposed to be super fit- so far we haven’t looked so bar one game (Arsenal). We have been lethargic, slow, lackluster . Maybe we are over trained?
· * Tactics- sorry so far Moyes has not proved to be up to dated. It seem that his football ideas are taken from watching football in the 80’s and 90’s.
· * Team cohesion- I’m yet to see what is Moyes’ general idea for this team. So far we look like a disjointed Fergie’s team not Moyes’ project. I can’t identify what is Moyes’ plan and and expected end product.
I will support Moyes but I become disillusioned about his quality. I hope he gets the CL spot.
Right, because you would have this:
Let's find Touré, who has been one of the main reasons for City's poor away form.
It's not necessarily the points tally which is concerning, it's that our Premier League performances are that of a mid table team.
Again the bolded seems bizarre to me. We won the League comfortably, yet we should expect not to even be challenging; not even to be even close? That would mean we should expect a 15-20 point shift, basically that we should expect utter mediocrity. As I said most people at the start of the season agreed a top 3 finish and qualifying from the group stages of the CL was acceptable. This isn't expecting miracles and should be comfortably achievable with our squad and a competent manager. I think people have now revised this expectation to 4th place, stating poor Summer activity etc.
You could substitute "at least challenge" for "finish top 6" or "finish top 10". Would that be fairer on Moyes, if fans were happy with a 6th or 10th place finish? What should our minimum expectations be this year, and what should happen if they aren't met? There is a fine line between giving a good manager time to turn things around and giving a poor manager time to compound the negative effect. We all saw what happened with Liverpool letting Dalglish set the club back years with his transfer policy and archaic tactics; I wonder where Liverpool would be right now if the c. £50m wasted was available to Rodgers.
I find it genuinely amazing that some people think he's done great to get you to the last 16.
Roy Hodgson would have managed it. It's not hard with that group.
Roy Hodgson would have managed it. It's not hard with that group.
It's not basically great but it's very good though. Before the start of campaign people weren't feeling confident and the general opinion was that we haven't been in a tougher group for many years. We were favorites to win it, but still it wasn't an easy job.
I find it weird people moaning about us relying on wide play to create chances, given that has been in our DNA since Busby at least.
We had great wingers and our game was based there but it wasn't nothing like this year. The truth be told, evn in the last couple of years people were moaning that we are overusing wingers and this days all we can do is pass the ball to Scholes who then finds Nani/Valencia from 50 yards. It was basically no creativity on the middle.
But the stats are showing that we are now using them even more, and combined with us hoofing the ball more than even and combined with Moyes who at Everton was master of hoofing the ball, makes people who felt that we will play a non-attractive game which will be similar to that of Everton even more worried. At the moment stats definitely give them the right to be worry.
Thats when we had the money to attract and buy the best widemen. In todays game there are now a clutch of clubs that can out compete us for players. We then need to be smarter about the players we buy and the way we play - we need to be more flexible in our play.
What's worked for us in the past is not necessarily going to work in the future.
Moyes has added nothing to the way we play.
That says more about the general quality of CL groups, not about your own qualities.
I mean, it's good you've qualified and everything, but overcoming Shakhtar, who have lost key players, Leverkusen, who basically didn't think they were good enough to share a pitch with you, and minnows Sociedad was hardly tough.
The league form hasn't been as good, and there's a reason why. Many teams in the league now have the quality to hurt any other side. Everyone who plays you now thinks they can pick up a point or three, and this loss of your fear factor is beginning to hurt.
Fear factor has been gone for the last 3 or 4 years.
People know they can beat us now this season because we are so predictable! It's the same, "shove the ball out to the wings and hope for the best" crap every single game!
Our midfield never penetrates through the middle and as effective a passer as Carrick is, he either has microphone head or Tom "rabbit caught in headlights" Cleverley to bail out each time.
We're too predictable and one dimensional.
Your bias against Moyes makes any discussion about him irrelevant.
No it doesn't, just because he doesn't rate Moyes that highly as a manager doesn't mean he's biased against him, it's clearly an opinion. Add to that, him and others expressed these concerns long before he was hired.
This 'biased' nonsense on here is really grating, it seems that anyone who is critical of a player of ours is biased against them, or anyone who defends a player is biased towards them. I guess we should all hold neutral opinions on everything here, that'd be fun.
If you don't like someone its virtually impossible to be objective, therefore any discussion is futile.
Agree. When someone supports Moyes, they get slammed for "using the same excuses (that change takes time)". If they hate Moyes, they get slammed for being biased or short-sighted or not "top reds."
Seems like people can't have an opinion on something these days. Maybe it's because people aren't used to it as for the best part of a quarter of a century, there has been nothing to debate in terms of our manager.
Not really. I like Moyes, but I can see he has made mistakes. I just think that he's made mistakes because it takes time to become the perfect manager of Man Utd. Therefore I have a more forgiving outlook on his mistakes, whereas some that don't like him don't. That's just how opinions work.
Only if you are a penis, just because you don't like someone, you can still be objective..
Except I've seen absolutely nothing to suggest he dislikes him. he's being critical of his playing style, basically, what he does as a manager, he's not said anything to suggest he doesn't like Moyes on a personal level.
There's nothing wrong with having an opinion, you know, even if it's a negative one, and just because it's a negative one about what they do as a manager/player, doesn't automatically mean you then have some big dislike for the person and are actively biased against them for the sake of being so.
Roll on tonight, and hopefully a good win to calm everyone's rants 
At least temporarily!
At least temporarily!
Roll on tonight, and hopefully a good win to calm everyone's rants
At least temporarily!
To be fair, the rants won't stop until Moyes has proved in some way that he is Manchester United material
It's not weird. We had a master tactician who did wonders with this squad. Moyes isn't Fergie - he has to adapt to the current conditions. You can play down the wings, but there has to be more variation in our play. It's ridiculous that we don't use our left wing or central areas enough, and the wings being part of our history and DNA doesn't amount to much when the game has changed massively.
Also people need to stop assuming that this creating from wide stuff is a creation of Moyes. We've been using it for years.
He doesn't like him as a manager, that's the point and he's just making the same overly negative points over and over as nauseum. I'm just going to put him on ignore like the rest of them as I see no value in anything he has to say.
This thread will be something else if Everton get a result tonight.
Since when has SAF been a master tactician?! This is a new one, most people criticised him for being naive tactically. SAF was a great man manager, that was his strength.
He failed to get us to be more creative thought the middle with Berbatov and it looks like Kagawa too.
To be fair, Moyes has done absolutely nothing so far for him to be "liked" as a manager in a lot of people's minds and I have to agree with them.
There is virtually no way we can put a positive spin on his time here so far. Jury still out we can say maybe but thats the kindest way we could put it
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