Moyes So Far!

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Our 'problems' are largely the same as last season, and the season before that. We had a midfield that needed some work and it wasn't addressed. Moyes has inherited this problem - and any problem is potentially a crushing one when you are at the top level of sport - and he tried to address it during the summer.

Why we failed to do so is another debate, but I don't believe it was all down to Moyes and I do believe that it was a big learning curve that he would inevitably have to go through.

Judging him this early is insane, and I feel that a large part of this is down to fear. Fear that we are not going to be the best team in the country for a period. Many posters on here have probably never known anything else.

For what its worth I do believe that we are improving, and we will get ourselves back into contention this season but City will probably win the league, because they have the best squad and they haven't gone through anything like the upheaval that our club has gone through. Moyes will rebuild the midfield as soon as he can and we will be a far more formidable force once again.

Stop panicking, give the man time and he will come good for us. If he is good enough for Ferguson, then he deserves our support for at least a couple of seasons.
 
Bilbo said:
Our 'problems' are largely the same as last season, and the season before that. We had a midfield that needed some work and it wasn't addressed. Moyes has inherited this problem - and any problem is potentially a crushing one when you are at the top level of sport - and he tried to address it during the summer.

Why we failed to do so is another debate, but I don't believe it was all down to Moyes and I do believe that it was a big learning curve that he would inevitably have to go through.

Judging him this early is insane, and I feel that a large part of this is down to fear. Fear that we are not going to be the best team in the country for a period. Many posters on here have probably never known anything else.

For what its worth I do believe that we are improving, and we will get ourselves back into contention this season but City will probably win the league, because they have the best squad and they haven't gone through anything like the upheaval that our club has gone through. Moyes will rebuild the midfield as soon as he can and we will be a far more formidable force once again.

Stop panicking, give the man time and he will come good for us. If he is good enough for Ferguson, then he deserves our support for at least a couple of seasons.
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Well said. We are supposed to be SUPPORTERS. Some on here are unreal.
 
datura said:
A great man once said this:

"When we had bad times here, everyone stood by me and your job now is to stand by your new manager"
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Tbf, our match going supporters are doing exactly that. The support for the manager inside the OT has been pretty good.
 
Comsmit said:
Depends whether the players he wants, or more accurately gets...are actually better or they simply fit into some kind of system Moyes wants to play. His activity in the transfer market will be heavily scrutinised from January and summer 2014, when he should have a clear idea of the players he wants and how he wants them to play in his system.

I don't think playing Van Persie as a classic 9 is a good thing actually. It makes the team far too reliant on Rooney and our misfiring wide players for creativity, and you take away so much of Van Persie's ability in the final third. Last season he was basically a 9.5 and it saw him droping between the lines frequently, using all his nous, fantastic movement and close control to rack up assists as well as goals. He isn't a classic number 9, he has played wide and as a no. 10 which has made him such a rounded player. Moyes has taken a lot of that away by tweaking his role and the whole setup has become far more rigid with less unpredictability.

It is no coincidence that he hasn't looked the same player under Moyes. He is playing closer to the opposition goal and subsequently he can't get involved as much as he would like in United's build up play. He has seen much less of the ball this season and had very few clear cut chances to capitalise on. He played this role at Arsenal but the difference there was that he always had great service into the box from wide or centrally through Cazorla, Wilshere etc. At United last year he was able to better showcase his all-round footballing ability and you could see how much he enjoyed his football under Ferguson. You can't say he has the same vibe this campaign and he has not been as instrumental to United, mainly because of how the manager wants to play him. It is all setup to give Rooney licence to do what he wants but this should not be to the detriment of arguably the most complete striker in Europe.
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All good points, but I never said I accept what he has done. I commend him for the decisions he has taken in trying to deal with our deficiencies. (I've criticised how he has used Rooney previously.)
 
Those opinions are in there, but your home form hasn't been terrible.

There was a smattering of boos after the West Brom game which wasn't a bad reaction, all in all.

Your match going fans haven't had an awful lot to complain about as of yet.
 
finneh said:
It's not necessarily the points tally which is concerning, it's that our Premier League performances are that of a mid table team.



Again the bolded seems bizarre to me. We won the League comfortably, yet we should expect not to even be challenging; not even to be even close? That would mean we should expect a 15-20 point shift, basically that we should expect utter mediocrity. As I said most people at the start of the season agreed a top 3 finish and qualifying from the group stages of the CL was acceptable. This isn't expecting miracles and should be comfortably achievable with our squad and a competent manager. I think people have now revised this expectation to 4th place, stating poor Summer activity etc.

You could substitute "at least challenge" for "finish top 6" or "finish top 10". Would that be fairer on Moyes, if fans were happy with a 6th or 10th place finish? What should our minimum expectations be this year, and what should happen if they aren't met? There is a fine line between giving a good manager time to turn things around and giving a poor manager time to compound the negative effect. We all saw what happened with Liverpool letting Dalglish set the club back years with his transfer policy and archaic tactics; I wonder where Liverpool would be right now if the c. £50m wasted was available to Rodgers.
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Quite possibly yes. Anyone who expected this obviously believed the players were a bigger part of reason United won it so comfortably than the manager, not true. In rough seasons when sides arent playing that well and theres no stand out team the team with the best manager and most experienced mentality almost always wins out. Utter mediocrity in overall terms is not finishing 4th, its finishing 8th or 9th and 30 or so points off the top. Mediocrity for United might seem like 4th and 15 or 20 off the top but again the slate has to be wiped clean now SAF has gone so Moyes should not be judged upon last season whatsoever even if the players are the same.
 
Bilbo said:
Our 'problems' are largely the same as last season, and the season before that. We had a midfield that needed some work and it wasn't addressed. Moyes has inherited this problem - and any problem is potentially a crushing one when you are at the top level of sport - and he tried to address it during the summer.

Why we failed to do so is another debate, but I don't believe it was all down to Moyes and I do believe that it was a big learning curve that he would inevitably have to go through.

Judging him this early is insane, and I feel that a large part of this is down to fear. Fear that we are not going to be the best team in the country for a period. Many posters on here have probably never known anything else.

For what its worth I do believe that we are improving, and we will get ourselves back into contention this season but City will probably win the league, because they have the best squad and they haven't gone through anything like the upheaval that our club has gone through. Moyes will rebuild the midfield as soon as he can and we will be a far more formidable force once again.

Stop panicking, give the man time and he will come good for us. If he is good enough for Ferguson, then he deserves our support for at least a couple of seasons.
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Great post as always.
 
Comsmit said:
Depends whether the players he wants, or more accurately gets...are actually better or they simply fit into some kind of system Moyes wants to play. His activity in the transfer market will be heavily scrutinised from January and summer 2014, when he should have a clear idea of the players he wants and how he wants them to play in his system.

I don't think playing Van Persie as a classic 9 is a good thing actually. It makes the team far too reliant on Rooney and our misfiring wide players for creativity, and you take away so much of Van Persie's ability in the final third. Last season he was basically a 9.5 and it saw him droping between the lines frequently, using all his nous, fantastic movement and close control to rack up assists as well as goals. He isn't a classic number 9, he has played wide and as a no. 10 which has made him such a rounded player. Moyes has taken a lot of that away by tweaking his role and the whole setup has become far more rigid with less unpredictability.

It is no coincidence that he hasn't looked the same player under Moyes. He is playing closer to the opposition goal and subsequently he can't get involved as much as he would like in United's build up play. He has seen much less of the ball this season and had very few clear cut chances to capitalise on. He played this role at Arsenal but the difference there was that he always had great service into the box from wide or centrally through Cazorla, Wilshere etc. At United last year he was able to better showcase his all-round footballing ability and you could see how much he enjoyed his football under Ferguson. You can't say he has the same vibe this campaign and he has not been as instrumental to United, mainly because of how the manager wants to play him. It is all setup to give Rooney licence to do what he wants but this should not be to the detriment of arguably the most complete striker in Europe.
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Agreed. Except the bold bit, where the anal devil inside me has to correct you that Cazorla wasn't really at Arsenal when RVP was =P (unless you're referring to the very early games of last season =P).
 
Moriarty said:
He's taking the piss, in a subtle sort of way.
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No, i'm actually not, shows how much you think of Moyes when you automatically think a rival fan backing him is taking the piss.

Im speaking from a completely neutral viewpoint when I am saying that, if you choose not to believe that thats up to you, but I cant say anymore than that!
 
ItsEssexRob said:
Quite possibly yes. Anyone who expected this obviously believed the players were a bigger part of reason United won it so comfortably than the manager, not true. In rough seasons when sides arent playing that well and theres no stand out team the team with the best manager and most experienced mentality almost always wins out. Utter mediocrity in overall terms is not finishing 4th, its finishing 8th or 9th and 30 or so points off the top. Mediocrity for United might seem like 4th and 15 or 20 off the top but again the slate has to be wiped clean now SAF has gone so Moyes should not be judged upon last season whatsoever even if the players are the same.
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As I said, to say Fergie is worth 10-15 points more in a season over a different good manager is saying he is very special, one of a kind. No manager however is worth an extra 20-25 points to their team, unless the manager replacing them is incompetent. It would be a disservice to the players we have to say that we'd have finished 5th or 6th last season without Fergie. No-one would ask Moyes to perform as Fergie did, but people will expect him to perform to a minimum level, which is to finish 4th. If he finishes 5th he should be sacked and rightly so.
 
finneh said:
As I said, to say Fergie is worth 10-15 points more in a season over a different good manager is saying he is very special, one of a kind. No manager however is worth an extra 20-25 points to their team, unless the manager replacing them is incompetent. It would be a disservice to the players we have to say that we'd have finished 5th or 6th last season without Fergie. No-one would ask Moyes to perform as Fergie did, but people will expect him to perform to a minimum level, which is to finish 4th. If he finishes 5th he should be sacked and rightly so.
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Its not just Fergie though, its the entire backroom staff, the psycological blow to lose the mentor, and the overall sense of the unknown. Players are a lot less emotionless than you think and things affect their game. Im not sitting here and saying Moyes is going to be a brilliant manager, because its simply unknown, what I am saying is that he is at the very least a good manager, but a long termist, not someone that would fit us or many other clubs, but who fits one that has had the past quarter of a centuries stability torn out over the summer.

If you want him sacked for finishing 5th after one season, what makes you any different from the blood rushing fans of our club or any other that demands instant success? Remember what made you the most successful club and try to emulate it, you are just too used to success that you would not accept one season out of the top four? Sound like anyone else?
 
ItsEssexRob said:
No, i'm actually not, shows how much you think of Moyes when you automatically think a rival fan backing him is taking the piss.

Im speaking from a completely neutral viewpoint when I am saying that, if you choose not to believe that thats up to you, but I cant say anymore than that!
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You're right. I don't like Moyes and I don't think he's anywhere near good enough to manage Manchester United. But there's nothing new under the sun. Fergie, if I remember rightly, is the only manager appointed by United in the post-Busby era that arrived here having won a league championship. O'Farrell had reached a Wembley final, Sexton had cup success with Chelsea, and Atkinson had nothing on the slate when he arrived. I understand all the arguments about longevity and continuity but I don't think a man who has no track record of winning silverware is the right man to continue the phenomenal tradition established by Fergie. A club like Manchester United should be aiming for that next level, and for me, that's overtaking Liverpool's haul of 5 European Cups. Instead, we've got fans worrying about finishing 4th and saying they'd be happy with a decent cup run. It's like stepping back into the 1980s sometimes when that was United's realistic expectation. Moyes might well suit the Glazers, and I can't see him rocking the boat like Mourinho, but I just don't think he's the right man.
 
datura said:
Your bias against Moyes makes any discussion about him irrelevant.
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No it doesn't. And I am not biased at all, it's just that unlike others I don't think that Moyes getting appointed for us makes him better manager than he was.

As for the point in question, you said that it's weird for moaning about the crossing when we have done iy always. I replied that we are both crossing and hoofing the ball more than ever. The stats support my claim. And to be fair this was predicted by a lot of people a few months ago. That time the reply was either 'Everton play nice' or 'he did that only because he didn't have any other option' which are poor excuses. As poor as the new excuses 'we're crossing cause our midfield is shit' or 'we have always crossed this much'.
 
The Glazers don't need success as long as their numbers add just like at Arsenal. The Glazers are not after European Glory - in their calculations as long as we finish in the CL spots then that's enough success for them.

Moyes should be capable of that with the squad he has at his disposal.
 
Commadus said:
The Glazers don't need success as long as their numbers add just like at Arsenal. The Glazers are not after European Glory - in their calculations as long as we finish in the CL spots then that's enough success for them.

Moyes should be capable of that with the squad he has at his disposal.
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The club's worth will diminish if we become happy with fourth place, and their revenues will fall. It's in their every interest for us to remain one of the best team's in the world. They're not thick.
 
datura said:
If you don't like someone its virtually impossible to be objective, therefore any discussion is futile.
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I don't like Suarez but I think he is a great player. I never liked Barca but I think they were one of the greatest team ever. I don't like Benitez but I think he is a decent manager.

I don't like Rooney. Yet when he is fully motivated he is one of the best players in the world.

I hate Apple. Their products are beautiful though. I hate EA, I loved Mass Effect though.

Do you want more examples that not liking (or in this case, not rating as much as you someone) doesn't mean that you're biased?
 
Revan said:
I don't like Suarez but I think he is a great player. I never liked Barca but I think they were one of the greatest team ever. I don't like Benitez but I think he is a decent manager.

I don't like Rooney. Yet when he is fully motivated he is one of the best players in the world.

I hate Apple. Their products are beautiful though. I hate EA, I loved Mass Effect though.

Do you want more examples that not liking (or in this case, not rating as much as you someone) doesn't mean that you're biased?
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Yes please! *grabs popcorn*

WHITE TEXT MUDDAFUKKA!
 
ItsEssexRob said:
Its not just Fergie though, its the entire backroom staff, the psycological blow to lose the mentor, and the overall sense of the unknown. Players are a lot less emotionless than you think and things affect their game. Im not sitting here and saying Moyes is going to be a brilliant manager, because its simply unknown, what I am saying is that he is at the very least a good manager, but a long termist, not someone that would fit us or many other clubs, but who fits one that has had the past quarter of a centuries stability torn out over the summer.

If you want him sacked for finishing 5th after one season, what makes you any different from the blood rushing fans of our club or any other that demands instant success? Remember what made you the most successful club and try to emulate it, you are just too used to success that you would not accept one season out of the top four? Sound like anyone else?
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Out of the mouths of chavs, thou hast seen common sense
 
Revan said:
I don't like Suarez but I think he is a great player. I never liked Barca but I think they were one of the greatest team ever. I don't like Benitez but I think he is a decent manager.

I don't like Rooney. Yet when he is fully motivated he is one of the best players in the world.

I hate Apple. Their products are beautiful though. I hate EA, I loved Mass Effect though.

Do you want more examples that not liking (or in this case, not rating as much as you someone) doesn't mean that you're biased?
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in the interests of balance can I just say that I hate Arsenal and am entirely convinced theyre going to choke and finish 3rd or lower this season. Ill leave it up to others to decide whether the second part of that sentence is true because of the first, or if I am merely expecting it to happen because it always has for so many years.

FWIW I also hate Hollyoaks and think anyone who watches it must be a simpleton.
 
Moriarty said:
You're right. I don't like Moyes and I don't think he's anywhere near good enough to manage Manchester United. But there's nothing new under the sun. Fergie, if I remember rightly, is the only manager appointed by United in the post-Busby era that arrived here having won a league championship. O'Farrell had reached a Wembley final, Sexton had cup success with Chelsea, and Atkinson had nothing on the slate when he arrived. I understand all the arguments about longevity and continuity but I don't think a man who has no track record of winning silverware is the right man to continue the phenomenal tradition established by Fergie. A club like Manchester United should be aiming for that next level, and for me, that's overtaking Liverpool's haul of 5 European Cups. Instead, we've got fans worrying about finishing 4th and saying they'd be happy with a decent cup run. It's like stepping back into the 1980s sometimes when that was United's realistic expectation. Moyes might well suit the Glazers, and I can't see him rocking the boat like Mourinho, but I just don't think he's the right man.
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I agree with a lot of what you have said, but that reduced expectation (for me certainly) only applies to this season. I'm sure the club feel the same, and having said that I certainly haven't written off our chances of doing something this season. Far from it in fact.

You have to understand that we have just lost a manager who led the club for practically a quarter of our entire history, so we have to let Moyes build his own team, whilst of course still having minimum expectations for this year. Its difficult to envisage Moyes keeping his job if we do not finish in the top four, but I cannot see this happening.

I'd rather be positive about Moyes. He has handled the Rooney situation perfectly. He has given Januzaj chances when many managers under pressure would not have done so. He seems to be aware of the size of the task facing him, and he has also identified the problems in our squad which, given his very good transfer record at Everton, gives me confidence that he will be able to correct those problems.

For years I have heard countless United fans talk of the problems the club would face when Ferguson left. What exactly did they think those problems would be, other than exactly what we are facing right now? Do we want to become one of those clubs that turn on their manager this quickly? Do we want to have six managers over the next ten seasons? Our fans should know better than anybody the rewards than come from having trust and patience with our manager.
 
Bilbo said:
I agree with a lot of what you have said, but that reduced expectation (for me certainly) only applies to this season. I'm sure the club feel the same, and having said that I certainly haven't written off our chances of doing something this season. Far from it in fact.

You have to understand that we have just lost a manager who led the club for practically a quarter of our entire history, so we have to let Moyes build his own team, whilst of course still having minimum expectations for this year. Its difficult to envisage Moyes keeping his job if we do not finish in the top four, but I cannot see this happening.

I'd rather be positive about Moyes. He has handled the Rooney situation perfectly. He has given Januzaj chances when many managers under pressure would not have done so. He seems to be aware of the size of the task facing him, and he has also identified the problems in our squad which, given his very good transfer record at Everton, gives me confidence that he will be able to correct those problems.

For years I have heard countless United fans talk of the problems the club would face when Ferguson left. What exactly did they think those problems would be, other than exactly what we are facing right now? Do we want to become one of those clubs that turn on their manager this quickly? Do we want to have six managers over the next ten seasons? Our fans should know better than anybody the rewards than come from having trust and patience with our manager.
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Sweet post - agree completely with that buddy. It's important to note that yes, Moyes has made mistakes. There are things he could have done better. But then to also balance that out, he's had some injuries and tough breaks. He's got a very steep learning curve. And he's trying to manage a club which has had it's methods and ideas set in stone for a quarter of a century. It's so easy to overlook the impact this has on everyone, especially the players, many of whom have only been used to one management style for most of their/all of their careers.
 
rpitroda said:
Sweet post - agree completely with that buddy. It's important to note that yes, Moyes has made mistakes. There are things he could have done better. But then to also balance that out, he's had some injuries and tough breaks. He's got a very steep learning curve. And he's trying to manage a club which has had it's methods and ideas set in stone for a quarter of a century. It's so easy to overlook the impact this has on everyone, especially the players, many of whom have only been used to one management style for most of their/all of their careers.
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Definitely made some mistakes - impossible for him not to have. I give him full credit for the Rooney situation though, and I think we really would be in a pickle right now if we hadn't had Wayne's input so far this season.
 
Bilbo said:
Definitely made some mistakes - impossible for him not to have. I give him full credit for the Rooney situation though, and I think we really would be in a pickle right now if we hadn't had Wayne's input so far this season.
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Carried us all season, he has.
 
Bilbo said:
I agree with a lot of what you have said, but that reduced expectation (for me certainly) only applies to this season. I'm sure the club feel the same, and having said that I certainly haven't written off our chances of doing something this season. Far from it in fact.

You have to understand that we have just lost a manager who led the club for practically a quarter of our entire history, so we have to let Moyes build his own team, whilst of course still having minimum expectations for this year. Its difficult to envisage Moyes keeping his job if we do not finish in the top four, but I cannot see this happening.

I'd rather be positive about Moyes. He has handled the Rooney situation perfectly. He has given Januzaj chances when many managers under pressure would not have done so. He seems to be aware of the size of the task facing him, and he has also identified the problems in our squad which, given his very good transfer record at Everton, gives me confidence that he will be able to correct those problems.

For years I have heard countless United fans talk of the problems the club would face when Ferguson left. What exactly did they think those problems would be, other than exactly what we are facing right now? Do we want to become one of those clubs that turn on their manager this quickly? Do we want to have six managers over the next ten seasons? Our fans should know better than anybody the rewards than come from having trust and patience with our manager.
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I see where you're coming from mate. No, I don't want to see the United manager's office get fitted with a revolving door. We've come a long way since the days of Busby and that's due to the brilliance of Fergie. He rebuilt the academy from the ground up and fired up the dying embers of what was once the greatest youth system in the Football League and turned out a team of young lads that won the Treble which still astounds me when I think of it today, some 14 years later. Fergie turned us from perennial also-rans into serial champions; so great was his success that many became blase about winning yet another league title.

As you say, United fans have worried about what would happen when Fergie called it a day. Those of us who lived through the fag-end of Busby's tenure and the turmoil that followed must have been afraid of history repeating itself, as it is apt to do. But Fergie left this club in a far better state than did Sir Matt. I remember my dad saying the morning after we had drawn with Real to reach the European Cup Final in 1968 that it would be Matt's last hurrah. "This is all he's lived for for the past 10 years" he told me, "if we win, Matt will call it a day." He wasn't quite correct but near enough.We then went through a succession of managers, none of whom had ever won a league title. Instead of getting Brian Clough or Jock Stein, we got Frank O'Farrell. Instead of getting a big personality who knew how to win a championship, we ended up with second raters. And even when we did get a man who woulds have (in my opinion) won us the league long before 1993, we sacked him over his personal life.

For me, Fergie's successor should have been a man with proven ability to win titles and a man with intimate knowledge of the European game. A man who could go toe-to-toe with the likes of Real, Barca, Milan,Bayern, and Juve. In short, a man who could take United to the next level and win a haul of European Cups to rival and even surpass Liverpool. Say what you like, but those 5 trophies rankle.

I'll always support United no matter what. I won't call for Moyes to be sacked but I just don't think he's the man to take us up to that next level. Time will tell.
 
Moriarty said:
I see where you're coming from mate. No, I don't want to see the United manager's office get fitted with a revolving door. We've come a long way since the days of Busby and that's due to the brilliance of Fergie. He rebuilt the academy from the ground up and fired up the dying embers of what was once the greatest youth system in the Football League and turned out a team of young lads that won the Treble which still astounds me when I think of it today, some 14 years later. Fergie turned us from perennial also-rans into serial champions; so great was his success that many became blase about winning yet another league title.

As you say, United fans have worried about what would happen when Fergie called it a day. Those of us who lived through the fag-end of Busby's tenure and the turmoil that followed must have been afraid of history repeating itself, as it is apt to do. But Fergie left this club in a far better state than did Sir Matt. I remember my dad saying the morning after we had drawn with Real to reach the European Cup Final in 1968 that it would be Matt's last hurrah. "This is all he's lived for for the past 10 years" he told me, "if we win, Matt will call it a day." He wasn't quite correct but near enough.We then went through a succession of managers, none of whom had ever won a league title. Instead of getting Brian Clough or Jock Stein, we got Frank O'Farrell. Instead of getting a big personality who knew how to win a championship, we ended up with second raters. And even when we did get a man who woulds have (in my opinion) won us the league long before 1993, we sacked him over his personal life.

For me, Fergie's successor should have been a man with proven ability to win titles and a man with intimate knowledge of the European game. A man who could go toe-to-toe with the likes of Real, Barca, Milan,Bayern, and Juve. In short, a man who could take United to the next level and win a haul of European Cups to rival and even surpass Liverpool. Say what you like, but those 5 trophies rankle.

I'll always support United no matter what. I won't call for Moyes to be sacked but I just don't think he's the man to take us up to that next level. Time will tell.
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You are correct that the club is in far better shape than when Ferguson took over. Nobody can possibly dispute that, but I don't think it means that Moyes doesn't face any problems. It means he faces different problems. He has to win trophies and he has to win them yesterday.

The fact is, as we type this United are 12 games unbeaten. Taking everything else out of the equation - that isn't a crisis. Yet the general mood of many fans is that Moyes isn't good enough for this job. 12 games unbeaten, and not good enough! That is the level of expectation that Moyes has been burdened with.

I've seen clear signs of late that this team is getting better. Then again I am a hopeless optimist, so maybe I'm seeing what I want to see.
 
rpitroda said:
Agreed. Except the bold bit, where the anal devil inside me has to correct you that Cazorla wasn't really at Arsenal when RVP was =P (unless you're referring to the very early games of last season =P).
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You are correct. I have no idea why I said Cazorla :confused: to be honest the point didn't even require any examples of personnel!

I guess what I was alluding to was that Van Persie benefitted greatly from the excellent service and varied interplay in the final third for Arsenal, meaning he could play pretty much as a straight 9 as their work always offered him space to finish in the box. He has had to work a bit harder to get some of his goals at United, often dropping very deep to set up attacking plays.
 
Bilbo said:
You are correct that the club is in far better shape than when Ferguson took over. Nobody can possibly dispute that, but I don't think it means that Moyes doesn't face any problems. It means he faces different problems. He has to win trophies and he has to win them yesterday.
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He definitely faces problems, that's for sure. Anyway there haven't been calls for his sack, and even here there have been only a few calls for his sack. I have criticized him a lot here - and according to dakura I am biased so irrelevant - I haven't been calling for his sack. Even to his biggest criticizers the general feeling is that he should keep the job as long as we finish in top 4, which to be fair is the minimum someone should achieve with this team. If we would have signed Pep/Klopp/Mourinho people would have been disappointed with anything less than the title.

The midfield problem wasn't solved. I don't buy the argument that he at-least saw the problem. It was something that even a blind man would have seen. And burning 27.5m pounds on Fellaini make the problem even bigger, not solved it.

To conclude this part, people are criticizing (and saying good words for him on Adnan and UCL thread) him for his job until now. The definite judgement of fans will be later, but that doesn't mean that we should not give an opinion until to one point and then suddenly decide if he's great or shit.

Bilbo said:
The fact is, as we type this United are 12 games unbeaten. Taking everything else out of the equation - that isn't a crisis. Yet the general mood of many fans is that Moyes isn't good enough for this job. 12 games unbeaten, and not good enough! That is the level of expectation that Moyes has been burdened with.

I've seen clear signs of late that this team is getting better. Then again I am a hopeless optimist, so maybe I'm seeing what I want to see.
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Around half of those games are draws though which isn't good. I agree with the last part, since the Soton game we have both played better and got better result then before it.
 
Who was it that said tonight's team selection would tell us a lot about Moyes' mentality?...
 
datura said:
A great man once said this:

"When we had bad times here, everyone stood by me and your job now is to stand by your new manager"
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Some of us, like me, support Moyes to the hilt when we are at matches or around rival fans....When I'm around other United fans, I will let my insecurities about him come out!.....I'm not going to let my head disappear up Moyes' arse because Fergie told me to!

I desperately want Moyes to succeed, for as much himself, as us btw
 
.Rossi said:
That he's mental
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So what is actually wrong with the line up? Other than Welbeck for arguably Nani or Januzaj it's about as strong as we can play due to injury and suspensions and I'm happy enough with him getting a game. Player with plenty of potential in a position where no one has really nailed it down and looking forward to him linking with Giggs, Rooney and Kagawa in a home match in a flexible front line. Valencia deserves his spot and Fellaini and Giggs are the last midfielders standings.
 
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