Moyes So Far!

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Stack said:
you do talk shit sometimes, sort of like the term pixel peeping in photography.....
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Ha, surely anybody comparing any players can be accused of pixel peeping?

I'd really love to see you explain to any unbiased neutral fan how Carrick is as good as any of those top players I named. Christ, we've had so many genuinely brilliant players, putting Carrick at their level is ridiculous. I'm not having a go at Carrick, he's been a mainstay in an extremely successful team for years, obviously a very good player. Also a player who was criminally underrated at times. That doesn't mean we have to place him with the best though.
 
Isotope said:
Can't understand how some of our fans still don't see Carrick as top player. Just how?
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He's an excellent midfielder and the best of the bunch. However he no Xavi or Martinez let alone Keane or Scholes
 
Moyes target on CM so far are Fabregas and Fellaini. They are not famous as a speedy CM. So why people think Moyes wants and needs 'speedy' CM?

Also, our wingers aren't slow either: Valencia, Nani, Young, Welbeck. So are our fullbacks: Rafael and Evra. Then we have fast striker in Hernandez if required. Do we need Usain Bolt 'speedy' for our team to not look slow?
 
You don't need to be on the level of Xavi, Bastian, Pirlo, Scholes to be a top player. That kinda appreciation of football is sad for me. It's too black and white.
 
devilish said:
He's an excellent midfielder and the best of the bunch. However he no Xavi or Martinez let alone Keane or Scholes
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He can't be a Xavi-level player without being better than all other midfielders ;)

I see the point on sullydni. Carrick is a very good player but he definitely isn't in the category of the very best midfielders like Xavi, Pirlo, Scholes, Iniesta, Zidane or even in the category below them (Lampard, Gerrard, Schweinsteiger, possibly De Rossi, Busquets and Alonso). Still a very good player and IMO our most important player considering that his both his partners and his backups are no-where near his quality. But if by a top player he means a player who will be a first choice in almost all teams, than agree that Rooney and RVP are our only top players with De Gea and Rafael being there soon if not already.
 
Allegedly, there is top players and then there is 'top top players'.
 
'Keep it tight and hit the flanks! If we nick a goal sit deep and defend'. This is not the united way and I cannot ever seeing this guy asking the team to go for a second or third killer goal.
 
He's negative. I can't see that changing.

Do our coaches even do ball work in training? Players of this calibre should be able to pass the football to eachother.
 
Second time this season we concede on a setpiece at the death. He has to take some blame for this and we looked absolutely gassed too. Players like Smalling and Cleverley were kicking out wildly to stop their players from advancing.

I think Moyes needs to seriously consider playing 5 in midfield away from home because this is just not working.
 
DevilRed said:
Second time this season we concede on a setpiece at the death. He has to take some blame for this and we looked absolutely gassed too. Players like Smalling and Cleverley were kicking out wildly to stop their players from advancing.

I think Moyes needs to seriously consider playing 5 in midfield away from home because this is just not working.
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Saint. Wayne says no.
 
Not sure it's Moyes fault, us playing without urgency until we're chasing a goal/ playing sloppily has something we've seen over the last few years. I think more than anything we're lacking that little bit of luck that let us get away with it, clearly Fergie likely plays some part of that, but think it might be more just something that's finally caught up with us. You can't just play when you have to, or show real determination in the last few minutes of a game/in the big games.
 
David Moyes can be blamed for team selection etc, but not for the current situation, which has more to do with the squad than anything else. We've been sadly lacking in certain areas for more than a couple of years, and it's been glossed over because we've had a lot of lucky results, and a title win that had as much to do with the poor performances/bad luck of other teams.
 
It's his fault that we continually just sit on leads and never finish off smaller teams. Yes, we have a crap midfield, but Moyes claimed Fellaini was all we needed. What has Fellaini done? Nothing to justify spending £5 on him, much less £27m. We have yet to go out and blow a team away this season and that's largely down to Moyes' negative tactics. Against Arsenal, I can understand somewhat. Against West Brom? Cardiff? No, I can't. Maybe he can grow into managing Manchester United, but right now, he still thinks he's managing Everton. Small-time mentality.
 
Livvie said:
David Moyes can be blamed for team selection etc, but not for the current situation, which has more to do with the squad than anything else. We've been sadly lacking in certain areas for more than a couple of years, and it's been glossed over because we've had a lot of lucky results, and a title win that had as much to do with the poor performances/bad luck of other teams.
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And 89 points which will win the title 8 out of 10 times.
 
After a game where we finally saw some gameplan against arsenal, once again we got the usual of none at all. It's as if our players just go out there and do random things reactively Rather than look like they have some sort or plan they've been working on all week. I have to say the football so far under Moyes has been completely dire and it's a tad worrying.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
After a game where we finally saw some gameplan against arsenal, once again we got the usual of none at all. It's as if our players just go out there and do random things reactively Rather than look like they have some sort or plan they've been working on all week. I have to say the football so far under Moyes has been completely dire and it's a tad worrying.
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The worrying thing is we're not seeing improvement. We're not even seeing him try to bolster the midfield by changing our shape. Its the same shit every week and we're conceding goals like never before.
 
Sir Matt said:
It's his fault that we continually just sit on leads and never finish off smaller teams. Yes, we have a crap midfield, but Moyes claimed Fellaini was all we needed. What has Fellaini done? Nothing to justify spending £5 on him, much less £27m. We have yet to go out and blow a team away this season and that's largely down to Moyes' negative tactics. Against Arsenal, I can understand somewhat. Against West Brom? Cardiff? No, I can't. Maybe he can grow into managing Manchester United, but right now, he still thinks he's managing Everton. Small-time mentality.
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When did he say that? He said he wanted 2 new midfielders.
 
DevilRed said:
The worrying thing is we're not seeing improvement. We're not even seeing him try to bolster the midfield by changing our shape. Its the same shit every week and we're conceding goals like never before.
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What shape would have improved midfield with the available players? Which tactics? Playing Anderson?
 
charleysurf said:
What shape would have improved midfield with the available players? Which tactics? Playing Anderson?
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Possibly. Maybe throw Giggs in there or have Rooney drop deeper. I don't know Charley. Whatever the solution is, we haven't found it yet. We're talking about a team that won the league by 11 points last season. This is a real big regression from those standards.
 
charleysurf said:
When did he say that? He said he wanted 2 new midfielders.
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Yes when he first started, and then at the end of the window, he said Fellaini was all we needed. He'd make the difference, etc. I know he can't come out and say that he wanted someone else after deadline day and only signing Fellaini, but he said Fellaini was the player we needed to improve. He's wrong.
 
Pretty obvious we need to play with 3 midfielders. Wayne can go feck himself. We won't win anything with 4-4-2
 
charleysurf said:
What shape would have improved midfield with the available players? Which tactics? Playing Anderson?
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Could have started with Giggs.

Criticism of Moyes for today is unfair. He went to Cardiff looking for the win with a straight 442.

The reality is we really missed Carrick today and our squad simply doesn't have another midfielder to replace him when out. Apart fro. Our 40 year old winger.
 
DevilRed said:
Possibly. Maybe throw Giggs in there or have Rooney drop deeper. I don't know Charley. Whatever the solution is, we haven't found it yet. We're talking about a team that won the league by 11 points last season. This is a real big regression from those standards.
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Play Anderson? Play Giggs? fecking hell.

The transfer window is a black mark against Moyes (and Woodward) no doubt. But I'm not see any different tactics than we would have had from Fergie last year. What we have seen is injuries to key players like Carrick, Rafael and RVP, Rio losing it, middle-ranking players like Cleverly and Welbeck seemingly not progressing at all.
We had loads of performances like this last season, but RVP would do the business and all would be well.

The next couple of transfer windows are key for the club, that much is clear. But I'm seeing the problems of flawed or aging players no longer being masked by RVPs goals. Any problems we have now have been building for a few years. It's not the fecking tactics, thats for sure. It'd be easier if it was. But I guess it's easier to blame the manager than the players who are not performing.
 
charleysurf said:
Play Anderson? Play Giggs? fecking hell.

The transfer window is a black mark against Moyes (and Woodward) no doubt. But I'm not see any different tactics than we would have had from Fergie last year. What we have seen is injuries to key players like Carrick, Rafael and RVP, Rio losing it, middle-ranking players like Cleverly and Welbeck seemingly not progressing at all.
We had loads of performances like this last season, but RVP would do the business and all would be well.

The next couple of transfer windows are key for the club, that much is clear. But I'm seeing the problems of players no longer being masked by RVPs goals. Any problems we have now have been building for a few years. It's not the fecking tactics, thats for sure. It'd be easier if it was. But I guess it's easier to blame the manager than the players who are not performing.
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I agree
 
What's really annoying is that he just does the same things (even though they cost us big time) over and over again.

I cannot see we are going to improve with this pathetic stance of drop deep and hold onto what we've got. Oh and foul anyone that gets past you(even in a dangerous position).

Every game I'm desperate to get behind him but he really does make it very difficult.
 
All 3 United said:
What's really annoying is that he just does the same things (even though they cost us big time) over and over again.

I cannot see we are going to improve with this pathetic stance of drop deep and hold onto what we've got. Oh and foul anyone that gets past you(even in a dangerous position).

Every game I'm desperate to get behind him but he really does make it very difficult.
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Hmm.
 
The 4 points thrown away against Southampton and Cardiff in the last few mins are worrying.

Not only were the performances bad, but usually United teams would manage to hang on and grind out the result once managing to go ahead.
 
sullydnl said:
Ha, there's no need to thank me for replying, it was a good post.

We're gonna disagree over Carrick, I don't think he's real top class. Would he get into the Bayern or Barca teams? No chance I think. Personally, I don't think he's better than Alonso at his best either. It's a bit harsh on Carrick as he is an excellent player, I just don't think he is at that level. Compare him to Scholes and Keane, for example, and I think you see the gap between very good and the very best.

I agree that Hummels is overrated but he does have more natural talent than Evans. Evans is a very good player but if we compare him to Vidic and Ferdinand at his best I again think you can see a gap in quality.

As for Valencia and Nani, would you disagree that the likes of Ribery, Robben and Di Maria are a step above them?

I agree that I'd want to see the beginning of an identity under Moyes this season but I suspect the signs will be more subtle than many will want. Don't get me wrong, I'm no Moyes fanboy and I'm certainly not convinced he's the right man for the job. It's just that, of all the facets I'll be judging him on, style of play is the one I'd be most patient on.
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If Robben played here, many would complain that he is lazy and selfish.
 
Don't really want to blame Moyes as we had a few injuries and we certainly could've done with Vidic and Carrick, but it just seems we are lacking fluidity in our play, we seem to like to get it wide and aimlessly cross it or just hoof it although that maybe because our midfield is non existent.
 
Sir Matt said:
It's his fault that we continually just sit on leads and never finish off smaller teams. Yes, we have a crap midfield, but Moyes claimed Fellaini was all we needed. What has Fellaini done? Nothing to justify spending £5 on him, much less £27m. We have yet to go out and blow a team away this season and that's largely down to Moyes' negative tactics. Against Arsenal, I can understand somewhat. Against West Brom? Cardiff? No, I can't. Maybe he can grow into managing Manchester United, but right now, he still thinks he's managing Everton. Small-time mentality.
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He's not blameless, but we should have strengthened much more than we have over the past few years. We have some good players who just aren't exceptional players. And a good team needs more exceptional players than we have, to become an exceptional team.
 
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