Moyes So Far!

Status
Not open for further replies.
kouroux said:
He's improved his tactical choices and substitutions, I criticized him enough before and now I wanna give him for the good work he's been doing.
Click to expand...

He's improved his tactical choices I agree, but I don't think he's improved in terms of substitutions. They're still far too negative for me, bringing on defenders for attackers is one thing I don't like seeing, and I would like to see Nani or Zaha ahead of Giggs in the queue every now and then. I just think he's still very negative with them, and personally as a fan I don't like that, but he's the manager and he's putting his own stamp on the team. But that's just my opinion of course.

In answer to the OP, so far I think Moyes has done alright. The transfer window was a shambles, fair enough, but that's done and dusted I've personally moved on from that. Mistakes were made and he knows it, I'm sure he will put things right in the coming windows when he's had chance to weigh up the squad, weed out the deadwood and bring in some talent. Thing is, the fans wanted immediate success and I believe he is taking a more long-term approach in that he's observing his assets before deciding what we need.

I also think it's fair to say he's been experimenting tactically early this season, and it looks as though he is fond of the high-pressing and high-tempo play which he has applied in recent games, and I like to see us playing fun-to-watch football.

The loss against City was an open door for the media to hit out at him, but it wasn't his fault we lost, we're in a transitional period, and sure, it's fair to say City have a new manager too so you could put them in the same boat, but they've got more individual talents than us which is where they prevailed, whereas we have more team players that are less gifted on the pitch, if that's the right way of putting it, but put more work in for the team and are better than City at that. But like I said, we're in a transitional period and the team didn't click, and I'm not really sure City's did either, they just won on the basis of having more good individual talents. That's just my opinion anyway.
 
Red Defence said:
Not saying it didn't happen charley, just saying I don't want to see it happening again.
Click to expand...

Who wants to be clinging on? Who doesn't want a lead of more than one goal coming towards the end? But let's not be expecting this team to match a standard that no Fergie team in recent years managed : winning every single game 3 or 4 nill and we're all relaxed and stress free.
And I recall multiple times where Fergie would moan that the players themselves would retreat back, and get more cautious. It wasn't his tactics. It was something the players would drift into if they were only one goal up.
 
noodlehair said:
We were lumping the ball up anyway though, that's the thing. He just brought someone on for it to hit.
Click to expand...
Is that not a significant problem in itself though? The amount of hoofs up field yesterday was Stoke-like, we don't pass the ball like a top team at all.
 
Moyes deserves credit for the team selection and again dealing with losing a player to injury...

in the second half when Kagawa was leaving lots of space for Sagna I felt that bringing on Giggs tightened things up

Arsenal has looked most threatening with a couple of tasty crosses in but I think Giggs tightened things up

The Fellaini introduction was a bit strange - I thought he would have come on and played deep but instead Rooney played more advanced and Fellaini went to number 10....

a good win - hopefully we can kick on
 
Dominos said:
Is that not a significant problem in itself though? The amount of hoofs up field yesterday was Stoke-like, we don't pass the ball like a top team at all.
Click to expand...


Are you kidding me? Early on, it was very targeted. We targeted getting the ball up to Valencia especially, as Clichy did nothing in the air. It was then zipped to the feet of RVP/Rooney.

Later on, we were defending for our lives, and any team just clears the ball upfield.

There was nothing wrong with the long balls played yesterday.
 
Dominos said:
Is that not a significant problem in itself though? The amount of hoofs up field yesterday was Stoke-like, we don't pass the ball like a top team at all.
Click to expand...

It was only in the second half and it was mainly because Cleverley was poor when he came on and Carrick was more or less a passenger once Jones wasn't next to him. I doubt it was a tactic (in fact Moyes hinted he was displeased by it) and it's not exactly something Moyes could do anything about. He had one effective player in the middle of the pitch and was forced to move him to centreback at half time.

The only other thing he could have done yesterday was move Smalling to centreback, keep Jones in midfield and move Valencia to fullback...but Valencia was vital in keeping Ozil out of the game and carrying the ball up the pitch, so that could have ended up being a big error.

What I see is a team that seems to be playing slightly differently and taking time to adjust, but who've improved a lot in recent weeks and are starting to look like a proper side again.

I don't think it's fair really to blame Moyes for a midfield problem everyone could see developing for years under Fergie, and which Fergie didn't go anywhere near to making a decent effort to sort out. We're going to have a big weakness in midfield still until at least next summer. It's unfair and massively unrealistic to expect Carrick to produce the same form he did last year and steer clear of injury all season. Just as it's unfair to have expected Moyes to fix a problem in one summer that had been left to get gradually more and more desperate over the course of about 5 bloody years.

In games like yesterday we're just going to have to find a way to win whilst working around it, and I thought we did that pretty well. If we hadn't have been forced to change at half time it might have been a lot better as well...theoretical obviously but Jones moving out of midfield made a very clear difference.

The other thing Moyes deserves some credit for is the form of players like Jones, Rooney and Valencia, which for me has been massively improved over last season. TO a large degree it's down to the players themselves, mind. I couldn't have seen Jones or Rooney putting in those performances last season though. I did see someone say Fergie would have played Cleverley instead of Jones, but not sure on that one...he would have at this time last year, but that's because Cleverley's form was a lot better than it is now while Jones's was a lot worse.

Pointlessly long irrelevant post.
 
Just watching the managers manager programme. My respect has gone up many more notches for these guys.
 
I think by the summer the midfield issue will feel less acute than it has, even if it is still the position we're weakest in. I feel quite optimistic about it to be honest.

Cleverley has room to improve and he can respond well to competition for his place. I can see Fellaini growing into his role as he settles. He is still settling, he has shown glimpses of being up to scratch even if he hasnt been consistently, he was far better for Everton than he has generally been for us and I see no reason why he cant rise to the challenge he has been set. And Jones is improving in midfield all the time. All three players should improve as the season progresses, which should compensate for the possibility/probability, as Noodle suggested, that Carrick will not replicate his consistency of last season.
 
It's time to give Moyes the credit's he deserves. He looked totally out of his depths under his first three month but finally I can see a future United manager in him. He still lack some self confidence and Fergie's exceptional winning attitude but for every game we win he's growing in self belief and confidence. Hopefully before the season ends he will realize that managing United is about going forward, not only to react whats in front of him.

As I see it he has a few important decisions to take before the seasons ends. We have senior players in our squad who needs to be replaced but at the same time he can't do everything at the same time so he need to address this problem carefully.

1. Nemanja Vidic. Patrice Evra and Michael Carrick. Stay or go? I think it's important that the club and the manager solve this problem as soon as possible. IMO I think we need all this player another season or two.

2. Wayne Rooney. Absolutely brilliant so far and I think he deserves a contract extension but it all depends on Moyes future plans. We are one of the few big clubs who still plays with two forwards and a two man midfield. IMO we should as an option look for a 433 set up when we meet the better teams and if so can Rooney occasionally accept to play wide left in this games?

3. Will he sell Anderson and Young in the January window or will he wait? If he don't believe in his players I hope he sell them as soon as possible. We need midfielders and I think we can't wait too long.

4. Zaha. Time for answers?

All in all I feel confident with David Moyes in charge. If you had asked me a month ago I would hesitate and said that that this was a job he couldn't handle. I admit that I was negative but as all of us I care so much and we can't afford to end up outside top four this season.
 
http://therepublikofmancunia.com/jones-moyes-prepared-us-really-well-to-beat-arsenal/
Phil Jones has revealed that in the days leading up to the game that Moyes talked to all the players individually so they were clear on what job they had to do. Jones, a contender for man of the match, totally restricted Mesut Ozil over the 90 minutes, but wasn’t alone in putting in a great shift.

“The gaffer set us up in a certain shape all week,” said Jones. “He went round individual players and prepared us really well. It has shown that has worked. The game needed energy, especially in the middle of the park. We needed to close people down and make an effort to win the ball back. We made it really difficult for Arsenal to play, especially in the first-half. We limited them to very few chances and coped with it really well. It was one of those games where, no matter where you play, it was just great to be involved in. It was a fiesty affair and tackles were flying in. The crowd were up on their feet and when you get a win like that it just makes it ever so sweet. Robin does that in training every day. He’s a top player. It was a great ball by Wayne, who was terrific. His workrate was excellent. Those two are on fire at the moment.”
Click to expand...
 
7even said:
1. Nemanja Vidic. Patrice Evra and Michael Carrick. Stay or go? I think it's important that the club and the manager solve this problem as soon as possible. IMO I think we need all this player another season or two.

2. Wayne Rooney. Absolutely brilliant so far and I think he deserves a contract extension but it all depends on Moyes future plans. We are one of the few big clubs who still plays with two forwards and a two man midfield. IMO we should as an option look for a 433 set up when we meet the better teams and if so can Rooney occasionally accept to play wide left in this games?

3. Will he sell Anderson and Young in the January window or will he wait? If he don't believe in his players I hope he sell them as soon as possible. We need midfielders and I think we can't wait too long.

4. Zaha. Time for answers?
Click to expand...


1. vidic, carrick and evra all stay. a no brainer really. we need experience in the dressing room. this season is likely to be rio's final season with us. giggs could and should end up as the first team coach by next summer. vidic can still play for another 2 season at least. even if he is not capable of playing 2 or 3 games a week we got enough quality to rotate with evans, jones and smalling. but we need vidic. carrick is another must stay. we've got enough problem in CM and even if we sign a top class CM this summer we still need to retain carrick for another few seasons. the way he sets himself playing he still got 3 years at the top level left at the very least. evra is a huge personal in the team.

2. give rooney his contract. this is going to be his last big contract so he is most probably going to ask an increase in his pay. the way he is playing now, he deserves it. i think he is not the type of a player that want to go and test himself in spain or france so if he leaves he is going to one of our big domestic rivals.we cannot afford that to happen as well. i know he has been involve in a lot sagas but when he is fit and happy, he is world class.

3. anderson is almost certain to leave. moyes just did't rate him. better let him go and sign someone top class in CM. as for young i think we should be looking for an upgrade to begin with. bringing in someone like reus and releasing young would be a great move for a start.

4. he is not ready yet, in moyes eyes. he'll go on loan in january and we'll see what happened next. hopefully he will impress and get his chance next season if not now.
 
Agree on the above points. I think Moyes, following a shaky start, won't want to throw Zaha in just yet. He needs a good six month run with a decent Prem side. I'd say Ando and Ashley Young's days are numbered.
 
He is too reactive, he sets United up to counter the oppositions strengths more than concentrate on our own. Its why he has such a poor set of results against the top teams.

He has pinned his flag to Rooney mast. It will be 442 come what may.

the current set of results has improved but not the performances.

Fellaini looks lost.
 
I think Moyes subs will get better as he has more time.

One thing I will say is the idea that Fergie did not make defensive subs if he felt it necessary is not true. I have seen 22 O'Shea come on for the last 15 minutes at the expense of an attacker plenty of times. Fergie would make positive changes when we were winning, sure, but it was not a stock tactic he always did. In the seasons when he had Carlos Queiroz as the assistant and we had four seasons of the best defence in the club's history he would often make defensive changes and not just in big games.

People complain about it now but that defence was the reason our European record suddenly improved hugely. It's the one thing we never had in Fergie's first 20 plus years and it was a team set up which contributed to how strong it was.
 
Commadus said:
He is too reactive, he sets United up to counter the oppositions strengths more than concentrate on our own. Its why he has such a poor set of results against the top teams.

He has pinned his flag to Rooney mast. It will be 442 come what may.

the current set of results has improved but not the performances.

Fellaini looks lost.
Click to expand...


I'd say that we've been doing that for odd few years now and I'm completly fine with such tactic. Performances have improved, we're still quite toothless in attack at times and still not creating enough chances but I'd say that once our defence got ( more or less ) sorted and the front four seems to be more stable now, we look far better.
 
Commadus said:
He is too reactive, he sets United up to counter the oppositions strengths more than concentrate on our own. Its why he has such a poor set of results against the top teams.

He has pinned his flag to Rooney mast. It will be 442 come what may.

the current set of results has improved but not the performances.

Fellaini looks lost.
Click to expand...
The first point you make is something he may be guilty of, but SAF also did this and it brought success.I understand what your saying though, and often it annoyed me when Sir Alex did this.

I'm glad he has Rooney playing and on fire and if he can get him to extend his contract then brilliant.I expect he'll work with different formations when he has had time to bring his own players.The results have improved, and the performances have also.Only slightly, but the signs are there that we have turned a corner, and the confidence is returning.

Fellaini does look lost but he'll be fine I believe.It's a big step up from Everton, but I'm sure Moysey has a plan for him and he'll find his feet and confidence soon enough! Panic buy maybe, but he is a better player than we've seen so far.He hasn't played anywhere near enough since he joined to judge him.
 
Zen86 said:
Moyes has been a bit unlucky with injuries lately, Vidic going off definitely upset our rhythm.
Click to expand...

Not that I am happy about Vidic being injured but if it means more game time for the younger players (jones, Cleverley and Fellaini (due to not having jones in midfield)) then that is a positive.
 
I think he is now beginning to settling in. He's learning how to rotate a big squad properly; he gave some of the more experienced players a go at the start (i.e. Young, Ferdinand) and they failed to deliver... he's now sticking with other players and it starts to pay off. He somehow got Valencia back on track again, Phil Jones is improving all the time, Rooney is playing out of his skin and we even looked quite comfortable without Michael Carrick in the middle of the park lately. Furthermore, certain player seem to be on their way out... Anderson & Fabio (unfortunately) are goners IMHO, Rio looks to be on his last legs too. I also like how he uses Adnan, gives him crucial game time, but takes him out of the spotlight too. There might be quite an overhaul next summer, but I'm confident we'll be getting through this phase without too much fuss. Giggs moving into management, Rio/Evra might move on; but Carrick, Vidic and even Rooney will stick around IMO, which will give us plenty of experience in the dressing room with new faces coming in.

Top of the Champions League Group, we're climbing the league table, unbeaten in nine, quarter finals of the Carling Cup... we could've asked for more flair in our play and a better points return in the league, but otherwise we seem to be on track and the players seem to be up playing for Moyes, which is the most important issue. He also got Adnan and Nani to sign new long-term contracts.... excellent in my book.
 
I think we have to stop with this tendency of saying "it was the same under fergie too!". I sure don't want him to have all ferries bad habits because he's sure as hell not going to have that many good ones.

As for his start, it's been slow and shakey but hopefully that last result is the boost he needed to do great thing at this club. Our football hasn't been good at all and he needs to keep working our the quality of our play and our solidarity at the back. The way he got our players working a specific system on Sunday so perfectly was very impressive for me. I just hope to see a similar urgency and intensity to our play from now on, and some sort of brand of football starting to appear.
 
No need for rose tinted spectacles - we did play a lot of dross under Fergie and at times it was pass it wide cross it in, rinse and repeat. What still concerns me is that we have played more long balls than any other side in the EPL.
 
It's either, it was the same under Fergie or, we are now the same as Everton :lol:
You can't win really, sure the team will play a lot like Fergusons, the players are the same but Moyes seems to have stabilised the defence after a rocky start (dropped Rio) and we look to be more attuned to contain teams when the need arises. I personally do feel it was the same under Fergie for the last couple of seasons and we all know its because the midfield issue was never corrected, I also feel we are short one man of real quality to link defence to attack and we really will become a threat to anyone in Europe.
Glad to see the talk of finishing outside the top four is diminished.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
I think we have to stop with this tendency of saying "it was the same under fergie too!". I sure don't want him to have all ferries bad habits because he's sure as hell not going to have that many good ones.

As for his start, it's been slow and shakey but hopefully that last result is the boost he needed to do great thing at this club. Our football hasn't been good at all and he needs to keep working our the quality of our play and our solidarity at the back. The way he got our players working a specific system on Sunday so perfectly was very impressive for me. I just hope to see a similar urgency and intensity to our play from now on, and some sort of brand of football starting to appear.
Click to expand...


Generally people only say 'It was the same under Fergie' when faced with other posters saying stupid things like we never sat back on a one goal lead.
 
I think Moyes is beginning to get the short term job right, namely getting results from what we have. The players look like they're working hard and playing for the manager, so signs within the squad are good. Hopefully we continue to grind out results and confidence continues to increase.

Improving the squad and improving our style of play are the long term concerns and it's far to early to judge him on that yet. Our style of play had been relatively poor for the last few seasons under SAF too, so it'd be fairly unfair to expect Moyes to improve it straight away. We won't play better football until we bring in better players, something Moyes will hopefully prove adept at. That kind of improvement takes time though. That said, Moyes is clearly a more conservative manager than SAF so we'll probably be disappointed if we're expecting football under Moyes to be as exciting as it was under SAF at his best. He can certainly get us playing better than we have been for the last few years though, even just by improving the quality of the team.
 
One thing that has improved the last couple of games is that we now play like a team. Our defense organization against Arsenal was spot on the first half. The obvious conclusion after the second half was that we need to work on our possession play. We're still are to static and our movement without the ball is often poor. This is something Moyes has to work with.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Irwhine said:
Generally people only say 'It was the same under Fergie' when faced with other posters saying stupid things like we never sat back on a one goal lead.
Click to expand...
Posters aren't saying that we never sat back on a one goal lead, they are saying that we are sitting back too often in the latter part of the match. You remember...the bit at the end where Fergie used to strive to make the team attack and where we quite often used to come back from a losing/drawing position and score. That's why "Fergie time" used to help us more than it helped the opposition. I for one now dread Fergie time because Fergie's never-say-die attitude pushed the team forward but the personalityless Moyes just shores up the defence and crosses his fingers, praying and hoping that fortune is on our side.
 
Red Defence said:
Posters aren't saying that we never sat back on a one goal lead, they are saying that we are sitting back too often in the latter part of the match. You remember...the bit at the end where Fergie used to strive to make the team attack and where we quite often used to come back from a losing/drawing position and score. That's why "Fergie time" used to help us more than it helped the opposition. I for one now dread Fergie time because Fergie's never-say-die attitude pushed the team forward but the personalityless Moyes just shores up the defence and crosses his fingers, praying and hoping that fortune is on our side.
Click to expand...


No, they are saying that we never sat back on a one goal lead which we absolutely did.

No-one could suggest that Fergie did anything other than always push the team on when we were losing or drawing until the final whistle.
 
Red Defence said:
Posters aren't saying that we never sat back on a one goal lead, they are saying that we are sitting back too often in the latter part of the match. You remember...the bit at the end where Fergie used to strive to make the team attack and where we quite often used to come back from a losing/drawing position and score. That's why "Fergie time" used to help us more than it helped the opposition. I for one now dread Fergie time because Fergie's never-say-die attitude pushed the team forward but the personalityless Moyes just shores up the defence and crosses his fingers, praying and hoping that fortune is on our side.
Click to expand...


SAF wasn't very 'never say die' when we had a 1-0 lead and the other side were on top. Numerous times under SAF, at least in the latter years, we'd start off fast and score a couple then the 2nd half would be a case of conserving energy, and people on here often used to accuse us of 'not finishing teams off'. It just seems another stick to beat Moyes with for those who don't like him (as it's obvious you don't) despite being the case with the previous manager too.
 
datura said:
SAF wasn't very 'never say die' when we had a 1-0 lead and the other side were on top. Numerous times under SAF, at least in the latter years, we'd start off fast and score a couple then the 2nd half would be a case of conserving energy, and people on here often used to accuse us of 'not finishing teams off'. It just seems another stick to beat Moyes with for those who don't like him (as it's obvious you don't) despite being the case with the previous manager too.
Click to expand...


Yep. Even RD's post telling me I was wrong was dripping with a misunderstanding of both what we did under Fergie and what the defence of Moyes is based around.

One thing that crossed my mind in the past few days though was, do you think that the change from United's "do enough to get a result and no more" attitude under Fergie and how Moyes has the team now working harder now actually cost us in the run in. Fergie seemed to be at pains to rest players whilst still on the pitch in his last few seasons and maybe that was a concious effort at looking at the long season.
 
Irwhine said:
Yep. Even RD's post telling me I was wrong was dripping with a misunderstanding of both what we did under Fergie and what the defence of Moyes is based around.

One thing that crossed my mind in the past few days though was, do you think that the change from United's "do enough to get a result and no more" attitude under Fergie and how Moyes has the team now working harder now actually cost us in the run in. Fergie seemed to be at pains to rest players whilst still on the pitch in his last few seasons and maybe that was a concious effort at looking at the long season.
Click to expand...


He also seems to have forgotten that we lost a title on goal difference..

It's hard to tell with Moyes, he seems to have a rep for working his players hard, but he also has a far bigger squad to work with then he did at Everton so can freshen it up when he wants with, in theory, good players. Moyes had a harder starting run of games and so we were probably fitter at the start of the season then we had been previously, but unfortunately the results and performances didn't come.
 
I'm just worried that we could be knackered come the run in if we play a lot of games with the kind of work rate we did against Arsenal.
 
Irwhine said:
I'm just worried that we could be knackered come the run in if we play a lot of games with the kind of work rate we did against Arsenal.
Click to expand...


Most of the best teams seem to be playing a similar high tempo pressing game - Barcelona, Dortmund, Bayern - and been fine. I guess the Premiership is different and more physically demanding, but it's a case of wait and see rather then pre-empting possible future problems.
 
datura said:
Most of the best teams seem to be playing a similar high tempo pressing game - Barcelona, Dortmund, Bayern - and been fine. I guess the Premiership is different and more physically demanding, but it's a case of wait and see rather then pre-empting possible future problems.
Click to expand...


Of course. I'm a Moyes fan and I love to see us playing a harrying pressurising game so I'm certainly not complaining. Just a thought which crossed my mind.
 
I still don't think he was the right choice for the United. Still, its nice to see some belief instilled back into us.
 
Kaos said:
I still don't think he was the right choice for the United. Still, its nice to see some belief instilled back into us.
Click to expand...


I think for a lot of people like you it'll take winning the title or the CL to win you round, and that's completely understandable with the proviso that you don't continuously take every opportunity to undermine him before he gets there.

(not saying you are btw)
 
Irwhine said:
I think for a lot of people like you it'll take winning the title or the CL to win you round, and that's completely understandable with the proviso that you don't continuously take every opportunity to undermine him before he gets there.

(not saying you are btw)
Click to expand...


There's another feller commadus or something I have taken to not even reading his posts, the negativity is unbelievable, I was wondering if he was actually a scouse on the wum at one point.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.