Moyes So Far!

[Revan]

It's not all his fault, and I thought he lost us two points today.

He did better with Naismith and Anicebe ffs. The players have to take some of the blame. I also think a new manager deserves a chance to shape his own squad, and as I pointed out earlier he inherited the worst CM in the top 4, an aging CB pairing and an unsettled Rooney. He deserves more than 8 games considering he is following the footsteps of our greatest ever manager.

Because those players are more suited to his style of play than players who are good technically.

I hope Moyes doesn't ever turn United into his shape. We will be better than shit, but we'll be lucky to get into top 4 if Moyes makes a team into his shape. I hoped that United will change Moyes, not the other way around.

 

[Cheesy]

I said at HT in the Sunderland game that keeping Januzaj was more important to me than a top 4 finish. We're light years from winning the CL, and making the numbers in the competition is pointless bar the fat bundle of cash. Missing out on that cash could force the Glazers to spend big to make sure it doesn't happen again.

A big name manager could well have targeted a top 4 finish at the expense of blooding in youngsters. I know what I prefer. I am still buzzing from Januzaj 5-year contract. If Moyes is blamed for the stuttering start he should also get at least some credit for securing the signature of a top talent who could have walked for free in a few months.

A big name manager would not have been targeted top 4. They would have been targeting a title win, and that should still be Moyes' aim. I really like Januzaj and I think he has the potential to be a top player, but some people are talking as if it's guaranteed he's going to go on to become world class now which is pretty much the definition of kneejerk. I'm glad we've signed him up again, but to excuse Moyes from not finishing top 4 because he's secured Januzaj to a new contract is just silly.

It's hardly some miraculous achievement either. He's simply convinced a young talent to stay at one of the world's biggest football clubs. It's a bit worrying if tying a youngster down to a new contract is seen at some major achievement. Big name managers would have done that as well if they'd seen his talent, which is more than likely considering the way some of our other wingers have been playing. It's good he's staying, but tying him down to a new contract isn't some sort of revolutionary achievement from Moyes.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Moyes reflects on MUFC draw: “The players have always been the people that have to turn out and do it on the pitch"

Way to alienate the team, blame them for this retarded start to the season.

Talk about selective quoting and lack of any context...jeez! I'm happy and supportive of criticism but FFS let's not stoop to just simply posting any old shit

Here's his post match comments make of what you will:

We’d done enough to get ourselves more than one goal, but we never really had enough control at times. I thought we had really good pockets of play at some points of the game, but not enough control," the manager told MUTV.
"It was great to get off to a good start with a goal early on. I was impressed by Adnan [Januzaj], and it ended up with Robin getting a goal. We had chances to make it two - we hit the bar, but I said to the players at half-time ‘this won’t be enough, we have to do more’, and that turned out to be the case.
"We’re aware of what we have to do [to bounce back]. We’ll get ready to go again, starting with the next game against [Real] Sociedad.”
Moyes felt tiredness played a part as the game went on with those players involved with their countries in the last couple of weeks feeling the effects of the games and travel.
"The boys who had been on international duty looked tired, and it was on my mind, but I didn’t want to make too many changes before we got the game out of sight," explained Moyes. "As it was, we didn’t, and conceding in the last minute was a real sickener."
The performance of Adnan Januzaj was one of the big positives of the afternoon, particularly after the news earlier in the day that he had put pen to paper on a new five-year deal.
"He is a really talented player, it’s great that we’ve got him signed up, and he’s only 18," said the boss. "We’ll try to use him at the right moments as the season goes on, but the way he’s been playing he’s worthy of being in the side."

MUFC official

 

[The Neviller]

If it's exciting football you want, I think Moyes already gave the answer in his first press conference. I remember he was asked about the style and talked about how the important part was winning games. So it's clearly going to be substance over style. We're not quite getting the substance thing right yet.

He's not even doing that bit right. If we were uninspiring but effective and efficient, he'd be getting much more of a bye ball. Getting results is the important part, so he's right on that. Performances can come later, but at this point our football is only being beaten in the shitness stakes by our results.

Dire all round.

 

[Sphaero]

I was only responding to the post that suggested they were not. If next summer Barcelona or Madrid went for him, I believe he would go.

I don't know about us, but I would like think very few realistic managers would turn down that opportunity.

Anyway I don't want him, I want Moyes to stay and improve. That is all I care about right now.

Funny that you mention them, because according to multiple papers in both Germany and Spain Klopp was the top candidate to succeed Mourinho at Real. He was also heavily linked to Chelsea as successor of Di Matteo and later before the Mourinho deal was fix. He himself confirmed to had multiple offers this summer from all over Europe, including the Premier League and the Primera Division. So for all we know Klopp was maybe even a topic for United at one point. He declined every offer and said time and time again that he won´t leave Dortmund until at least 2016.

This may be world shattering for some on here who believe that United would just need to snap with their fingers and Klopp would come swimming through the English canal , but maybe he had no desire to build upon SAF´s legacy and rather continue to build his own.

What he has already done, turning a midtable club into a two times national champion and CL finalist with little ressources, is already special and gave him a huge reputation. Dortmund may not be an European elite club right now, but despite losing several key players over the years he managed to make the team stronger every year. The club itself is also growing at an astounding rate (they were pracitcally bancrupt in 2005) and reached the 300 Mil. € mark in terms of annual revenue last season. There is not much, which speaks against them turning into a second German giant, being already heads and shoulders above any other team bar Bayern Munich. The Bundesliga surely has enough potential to have two European elite clubs.

Becoming the man, who significantly helped building a European giant without a sugar daddy, is a chance only a handful of people have in World football. This may outweigh even the chance to become manager at the holy Manchester United.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

A big name manager would not have been targeted top 4. They would have been targeting a title win, and that should still be Moyes' aim. I really like Januzaj and I think he has the potential to be a top player, but some people are talking as if it's guaranteed he's going to go on to become world class now which is pretty much the definition of kneejerk. I'm glad we've signed him up again, but to excuse Moyes from not finishing top 4 because he's secured Januzaj to a new contract is just silly.

It's hardly some miraculous achievement either. He's simply convinced a young talent to stay at one of the world's biggest football clubs. It's a bit worrying if tying a youngster down to a new contract is seen at some major achievement. Big name managers would have done that as well if they'd seen his talent, which is more than likely considering the way some of our other wingers have been playing. It's good he's staying, but tying him down to a new contract isn't some sort of revolutionary achievement from Moyes.

Crap! SAF failed with his fair share of top youngsters, and no one suggested it was revloutionary..only you. It was a concern as the ball was always in Januzaj's court that's all

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

He is too cagey with his subtitutions

 

[Inigo Montoya]

He is too cagey with his subtitutions

There is a fear factor at the moment, it's plain to see

 

[holyland red]

A big name manager would not have been targeted top 4. They would have been targeting a title win, and that should still be Moyes' aim. I really like Januzaj and I think he has the potential to be a top player, but some people are talking as if it's guaranteed he's going to go on to become world class now which is pretty much the definition of kneejerk. I'm glad we've signed him up again, but to excuse Moyes from not finishing top 4 because he's secured Januzaj to a new contract is just silly.

It's hardly some miraculous achievement either. He's simply convinced a young talent to stay at one of the world's biggest football clubs. It's a bit worrying if tying a youngster down to a new contract is seen at some major achievement. Big name managers would have done that as well if they'd seen his talent, which is more than likely considering the way some of our other wingers have been playing. It's good he's staying, but tying him down to a new contract isn't some sort of revolutionary achievement from Moyes.

Neither is defending a lead something he invented. Half of Noodle's threads have started with rants about switiching off after taking the lead.

On a more serious note, a top 4 finish means shit. It's a business achievement more than a football one. Moyes inherited a squad with evident weaknesses, and unfortunately the magician just retired. What needs to be done now is a rebuilding job and I can't see a better candidate given the challenge ahead. Players are not blind to the challenge, and when a bright prospect like Januzaj commits to a post-Fergie United it's a much needed vote of confidence. He's shown some rare qualities in the little time he's played for the first team, and is the most exciting player to come through the ranks for ages. I have no idea where we'll end up- I predicted 3rd before the season started, and to be honest with you it wouldn't thrill me more than finishing 5th or 6th. i'll excuse Moyes anything other than relegation. He deserves at least 2 seasons regardless.

 

[Cheesy]

Crap! SAF failed with his fair share of top youngsters, and no one suggested it was revloutionary..only you. It was a concern as the ball was always in Januzaj's court that's all

Yeah, he failed sometimes but it's not as if tying a youngster down to a new contract was some sort of new thing. I'd say it would've been more worrying if we hadn't managed to do it.

And he didn't exactly say "revolutionary", but it's clear that he overrates how big doing such a thing is when he considers it better than getting top 4, which I think is ridiculous.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Folks IMO need to calm down a bit. The league is a marathon and not a sprint. 8 points behind at this point in a season isn't curtains. Be thankful it wasn't a loss.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Yeah, he failed sometimes but it's not as if tying a youngster down to a new contract was some sort of new thing. I'd say it would've been more worrying if we hadn't managed to do it.

And he didn't exactly say "revolutionary", but it's clear that he overrates how big doing such a thing is when he considers it better than getting top 4, which I think is ridiculous.

When did Moyes ever say that? Christ this thread gets more hysterical with every passing minute

 

[Bestie07]

Funny that you mention them, because according to multiple papers in both Germany and Spain Klopp was the top candidate to succeed Mourinho at Real. He was also heavily linked to Chelsea as successor of Di Matteo and later before the Mourinho deal was fix. He himself confirmed to had multiple offers this summer from all over Europe, including the Premier League and the Primera Division. So for all we know Klopp was maybe even a topic for United at one point. He declined every offer and said time and time again that he won´t leave Dortmund until at least 2016.

This may be world shattering for some on here who believe that United would just need to snap with their fingers and Klopp would come swimming through the English canal , but maybe he had no desire to build upon SAF´s legacy and rather continue to build his own.

What he has already done, turning a midtable club into a two times national champion and CL finalist with little ressources, is already special and gave him a huge reputation. Dortmund may not be an European elite club right now, but despite losing several key players over the years he managed to make the team stronger every year. The club itself is also growing at an astounding rate (they were pracitcally bancrupt in 2005) and reached the 300 Mil. € mark in terms of annual revenue last season. There is not much, which speaks against them turning into a second German giant, being already heads and shoulders above any other team bar Bayern Munich. The Bundesliga surely has enough potential to have two European elite clubs.

Becoming the man, who significantly helped building a European giant without a sugar daddy, is a chance only a handful of people have in World football. This may outweigh even the chance to become manager at the holy Manchester United.

Yup, the arrogance of quite a few people absolutely astounds me. Klopp is building his legacy at Dortmund, why would he leave it midway.

 

[Red Pavan]

It doesn't make pretty reading being 5 points away from 4th spot.

 

[Revan]

Funny that you mention them, because according to multiple papers in both Germany and Spain Klopp was the top candidate to succeed Mourinho at Real. He was also heavily linked to Chelsea as successor of Di Matteo and later before the Mourinho deal was fix. He himself confirmed to had multiple offers this summer from all over Europe, including the Premier League and the Primera Division. So for all we know Klopp was maybe even a topic for United at one point. He declined every offer and said time and time again that he won´t leave Dortmund until at least 2016.

This may be world shattering for some on here who believe that United would just need to snap with their fingers and Klopp would come swimming through the English canal , but maybe he had no desire to build upon SAF´s legacy and rather continue to build his own.

What he has already done, turning a midtable club into a two times national champion and CL finalist with little ressources, is already special and gave him a huge reputation. Dortmund may not be an European elite club right now, but despite losing several key players over the years he managed to make the team stronger every year. The club itself is also growing at an astounding rate (they were pracitcally bancrupt in 2005) and reached the 300 Mil. € mark in terms of annual revenue last season. There is not much, which speaks against them turning into a second German giant, being already heads and shoulders above any other team bar Bayern Munich. The Bundesliga surely has enough potential to have two European elite clubs.

Becoming the man, who significantly helped building a European giant without a sugar daddy, is a chance only a handful of people have in World football. This may outweigh even the chance to become manager at the holy Manchester United.

Nice reflection.

Have said time and time again, I think that Klopp will try to make a legacy if his own in football. I think that he is similar to Sir Alex in many ways. And I would love him here. But I don't think it will ever happen. My opinion is that he'll stay for a long long time (possibly even longer) in Dortmund and will take them to the next level. They are currently one of the best teams in Europe, but I think that this is only the beginning. By the time Klopp will leave them (possibly retire) they'll be one of the true giants of European football (similar to United/Bayern etc status now).

So if he won't come here, I really would love to see him make his own dynasty there.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Nice reflection.

Have said time and time again, I think that Klopp will try to make a legacy if his own in football. I think that he is similar to Sir Alex in many ways. And I would love him here. But I don't think it will ever happen. My opinion is that he'll stay for a long long time (possibly even longer) in Dortmund and will take them to the next level. They are currently one of the best teams in Europe, but I think that this is only the beginning. By the time Klopp will leave them (possibly retire) they'll be one of the true giants of European football (similar to United/Bayern etc status now).

So if he won't come here, I really would love to see him make his own dynasty there.

And neither should we speak about him as the only candidate to take charge of a club like Utd.That, I'm convinced, will come from someone with PL experience

 

[Cheesy]

Neither is defending a lead something he invented. Half of Noodle's threads have started with rants about switiching off after taking the lead.

On a more serious note, a top 4 finish means shit. It's a business achievement more than a football one. Moyes inherited a squad with evident weaknesses, and unfortunately the magician just retired. What needs to be done now is a rebuilding job and I can't see a better candidate given the challenge ahead. Players are not blind to the challenge, and when a bright prospect like Januzaj commits to a post-Fergie United it's a much needed vote of confidence. He's shown some rare qualities in the little time he's played for the first team, and is the most exciting player to come through the ranks for ages. I have no idea where we'll end up- I predicted 3rd before the season started, and to be honest with you it wouldn't thrill me more than finishing 5th or 6th. i'll excuse Moyes anything other than relegation. He deserves at least 2 seasons regardless.

No, top 4 is massive. Do you have any idea how important it is to finish in the Champions League? If we fall out and struggle to get back in, do you think Wayne Rooney, Robin Van Persie and players of that ilk are going to hang around for long? There's a reason why the top players go to top teams. One of those is money, but we don't have the riches of Chelsea and Man City to convince them to stay. The other is for success, and if we're not offering that then what do we have to offer? History? That's the sort of thing people here laugh at Liverpool for.

Our first team needs improvement, yes, but where are people suddenly getting the idea from that it's this shit team incapable of getting top 4? It needs some major tweaks here and there, mainly in midfield, but it doesn't need to be rebuilt from scratch. Fergie was a great manager and it's largely down to him we won the league so comfortably last year, but he wasn't taking a CL contending team to the top. He had a team that was capable of winning titles, and he won titles with them. This side, despite it's weaknesses, is more than good enough to finish inside the top 4. Do Spurs or Liverpool have better squads than us, for example?

This idea that he deserves 2 seasons no matter what barring relegation is honestly laughable. It's absolute nonsense. If Moyes takes a title challenging team to 5th, he'll probably go. if Moyes took a title challenging side to any lower than 5th/6th, there is almost no chance he'd be here. Mid-table or lower? He'll be gone by January in that case. I want to give him time, but if he finished in the bottom half then he'd be responsible for destroying this sides chances of competing for the title in the future. It's not going to happen, but if we came 10th-15th, then our top players would leave and we'd have no chance of success in the future. To suggest he should stay unless we get relegated no matter what is beyond ridiculous.

 

[LonelyFire]

Very much how I feel. I wrote off winning anything this season, very few new managers come in and achieve immediate success at any club and there were clearly some issues with our squad despite our title win last season. I just want to see some positivity and a glimmer of promise and excitement. There's none of that, just the same boring predictably conservative and unimaginative stuff we saw Moyes conjure up in 10 years at Everton.

Totally agree - and it's for this reason I didn't want him.

Carragher nailed this in pre season and said that Moyes was too negative to be a Utd manager and that he would have to change.

I don't agree with giving him time if this is the way he wants to play. It's predictable, hoof it forward football. If he wants the fans onside, then he has to be bold and make some radical changes to how we are playing

 

[Cheesy]

When did Moyes ever say that? Christ this thread gets more hysterical with every passing minute

What? Moyes never said any of that. I'm talking about the poster who posted how it was some incredible achievement that Moyes convinced a Manchester United player to continue to play for Manchester United, and then proceeded to effectively say that if we came 17th then he'd give Moyes another season. Where you got the idea I said Moyes said that I don't know.

 

[Revan]

And neither should we speak about him as the only candidate to take charge of a club like Utd.That, I'm convinced, will come from someone with PL experience

Hopefully not again.

Take Wenger and Mourinho out of context, Klopp is better than the entire managers of EPL put together.

In the summer, with Pep out of reach he was by far the best option for us, but I think that neither us nor him were particularly interested on each other.

 

[LonelyFire]

Folks IMO need to calm down a bit. The league is a marathon and not a sprint. 8 points behind at this point in a season isn't curtains. Be thankful it wasn't a loss.

Not the points distance chief - it's the performances for me. We are predictable, slow tempo and starving our star CF of the ball.

October or not, signs aren't good. Id be happy with a trophy less season if we were progressive about our style

 

[gulli_G]

http://espnfc.com/news/story/_/id/1588405?cc=5739
Fergie: Any trophy an achievement
Sir Alex Ferguson believes it would be a “fantastic achievement” for his Manchester United successor David Moyes to win any trophy this season.

GettyImagesFerguson says Moyes has great support at Old Trafford.

Moyes has endured a rocky start to life at Old Trafford after taking over from Ferguson, and was frustrated again as Southampton scored a late equaliser to draw 1-1 at Old Trafford on Saturday.
It means United have won just three of their opening eight Premier League matches to fall eight points behind early leaders Arsenal -- but they have begun their Champions League campaign well and defeated Liverpool to advance in the Capital One Cup.

In an exclusive interview with MUTV, Ferguson said any kind of silverware should be regarded as a success this season.
“For David, winning a trophy would be a fantastic achievement no matter what it is -- the League Cup, FA Cup, European Cup or Premier League,” he said.
“We've always had priorities obviously, and David is aware of that, but I hope he achieves it.”

United, who have never finished lower than third in the Premier League era, are currently eighth in the table, but Ferguson stressed: “The key for David is not to look to do anything better or less but just to maintain what the club has been for 20-odd years and keep the success going.

“It is not easy winning a trophy in our league because you could say there are six teams fighting for the league.”

He said he believed Moyes would be given the space and time to do the job, saying: “He has great support at the club. It is a fantastically-run football club.
“I remember saying to the board back in David [Gill]'s time that the manager is the most important person at the club.

“He always will be, whether it's Alex Ferguson, David Moyes or Matt Busby. The most important person in the club is the manager, and that must always be sacrosanct. In fairness, the club have always stuck by that rigid belief.”

He said he believed his ability to adapt had been crucial to his managerial success, explaining: “You must embrace the change.
“I've said it many times: The bus is leaving. If you're not on the bus you're left behind, and that applies to the manager as well.

“I think I did that very well, particularly in my last decade. You must have the humility to do that and not think the world should never change because you're stuck with your ideas and philosophies.”
But he said the Champions League defeat to Real Madrid in his final season at the helm had left him with a sense of frustration, adding: “I always felt our record in Europe should have been better. Last year sums it up.
“The Nani sending off was a kick in the teeth for me. From a winning position against Real, the game was taken away by a really, really ridiculous decision.

“I knew [it was my last chance of winning the Champions League]. I just couldn't go to the press conference. I was gutted for everyone.
“I loved the European final [when United beat Chelsea in 2008], I must admit, but it's not an easy tournament now because all the best teams are in there.”

End of Article

Interesting, a hint for Moyes i hope.

 

[ItsEssexRob]

He also inherited Phil Jones, Chris Smalling, and Jonny Evans, so the aging CB bit of the argument doesn't fly. Rooney might still leave, and who knows who else will be seeking employment elsewhere if we don't qualify for the CL.

Who are perhaps not, or not yet the required level for what United need. Smalling in particular looks weak this season.

 

[Revan]

No, top 4 is massive. Do you have any idea how important it is to finish in the Champions League? If we fall out and struggle to get back in, do you think Wayne Rooney, Robin Van Persie and players of that ilk are going to hang around for long? There's a reason why the top players go to top teams. One of those is money, but we don't have the riches of Chelsea and Man City to convince them to stay. The other is for success, and if we're not offering that then what do we have to offer? History? That's the sort of thing people here laugh at Liverpool for.

Our first team needs improvement, yes, but where are people suddenly getting the idea from that it's this shit team incapable of getting top 4? It needs some major tweaks here and there, mainly in midfield, but it doesn't need to be rebuilt from scratch. Fergie was a great manager and it's largely down to him we won the league so comfortably last year, but he wasn't taking a CL contending team to the top. He had a team that was capable of winning titles, and he won titles with them. This side, despite it's weaknesses, is more than good enough to finish inside the top 4. Do Spurs or Liverpool have better squads than us, for example?

This idea that he deserves 2 seasons no matter what barring relegation is honestly laughable. It's absolute nonsense. If Moyes takes a title challenging team to 5th, he'll probably go. if Moyes took a title challenging side to any lower than 5th/6th, there is almost no chance he'd be here. Mid-table or lower? He'll be gone by January in that case. I want to give him time, but if he finished in the bottom half then he'd be responsible for destroying this sides chances of competing for the title in the future. It's not going to happen, but if we came 10th-15th, then our top players would leave and we'd have no chance of success in the future. To suggest he should stay unless we get relegated no matter what is beyond ridiculous.

Great post.

The same people who say that Moyes needs to be given time even if we finish outside of top 4 (no UCL) are the same people who now are convinced that we have a shit team and we need some top signings in order to become again great. But will top players come to a side that has lost the best manager of all time and replace him with Moyes, is outside of UCL and cannot compete with wages/transfer funds against the likes of Barca/Madrid/Bayern/Chelsea/City/PSG/Monaco? Can someone of them tell how this will work? Why the hell a player (especially foreign ones) would want to come to us if we're outside of UCL, to play for a manager who loves hoof balling and doesn't like that much technical players if they have offers to play for better teams/better manager/better wages?

Does anyone think that RVP would have come here last season if Moyes was the manager instead of SAF? And what if Moyes was the manager and we were outside of UCL?

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Who are perhaps not, or not yet the required level for what United need. Smalling in particular looks weak this season.

They both need plenty of experience at CB, we've always bought an experienced defender and they don't have that luxury when Rio and Vidic are out. Smalling will be very good, no doubt but will have to go through a tough time first.

It wouldn't surprise me if Utd bought an experienced CB

 

[ItsEssexRob]

No, top 4 is massive. Do you have any idea how important it is to finish in the Champions League? If we fall out and struggle to get back in, do you think Wayne Rooney, Robin Van Persie and players of that ilk are going to hang around for long? There's a reason why the top players go to top teams. One of those is money, but we don't have the riches of Chelsea and Man City to convince them to stay. The other is for success, and if we're not offering that then what do we have to offer? History? That's the sort of thing people here laugh at Liverpool for.

Our first team needs improvement, yes, but where are people suddenly getting the idea from that it's this shit team incapable of getting top 4? It needs some major tweaks here and there, mainly in midfield, but it doesn't need to be rebuilt from scratch. Fergie was a great manager and it's largely down to him we won the league so comfortably last year, but he wasn't taking a CL contending team to the top. He had a team that was capable of winning titles, and he won titles with them. This side, despite it's weaknesses, is more than good enough to finish inside the top 4. Do Spurs or Liverpool have better squads than us, for example?

This idea that he deserves 2 seasons no matter what barring relegation is honestly laughable. It's absolute nonsense. If Moyes takes a title challenging team to 5th, he'll probably go. if Moyes took a title challenging side to any lower than 5th/6th, there is almost no chance he'd be here. Mid-table or lower? He'll be gone by January in that case. I want to give him time, but if he finished in the bottom half then he'd be responsible for destroying this sides chances of competing for the title in the future. It's not going to happen, but if we came 10th-15th, then our top players would leave and we'd have no chance of success in the future. To suggest he should stay unless we get relegated no matter what is beyond ridiculous.

Because Liverpool havent won a title in over 20 years and still hark on about the mid 80's. You last won a title a few months ago.

United would not suffer one season out of 4th spot. As long it was just a one off.

Im finding it a bit bemusing how a lot of you are suddenly ignoring your history as though you arent still a big club. Is this what happens when you are massively successful and then drop a bit,and will this turn into RAWK in 18 years time?

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Not the points distance chief - it's the performances for me. We are predictable, slow tempo and starving our star CF of the ball.

Remember 2005? We haven't become as bad as we were that season yet.

October or not, signs aren't good. Id be happy with a trophy less season if we were progressive about our style

Hopefully the style can improve. What bugs me is we are finding it hard to score from open play and the cagey substitutions.. Even if we weren't that good today. I feel looking back on the highlights (for I never caught the match) it looks like we should have scored more than once regardless, for we had enough chances to win. Yet it seems Moyes compounded our lack of taking chances by his weird substitutions.

 

[Cheesy]

Because Liverpool havent won a title in over 20 years and still hark on about the mid 80's. You last won a title a few months ago.

United would not suffer one season out of 4th spot. As long it was just a one off.

I'm not saying we'd never be able to challenge again, but if we finish 5th for two season in a row for example then are we really much more of an enticing prospect than someone like Liverpool? People are saying we need to rebuild and improve; that simply not going to happen if we can't actually keep our place in the top 4. People expect world class players to just flock here "because it's Manchester United", without considering anything else.

 

[Revan]

Remember 2005? We haven't become as bad as we were that season yet.

No chance in hell for this to be true. We have already reached Hodgson's Liverpool level.

 

[holyland red]

No, top 4 is massive. Do you have any idea how important it is to finish in the Champions League? If we fall out and struggle to get back in, do you think Wayne Rooney, Robin Van Persie and players of that ilk are going to hang around for long? There's a reason why the top players go to top teams. One of those is money, but we don't have the riches of Chelsea and Man City to convince them to stay. The other is for success, and if we're not offering that then what do we have to offer? History? That's the sort of thing people here laugh at Liverpool for.

Our first team needs improvement, yes, but where are people suddenly getting the idea from that it's this shit team incapable of getting top 4? It needs some major tweaks here and there, mainly in midfield, but it doesn't need to be rebuilt from scratch. Fergie was a great manager and it's largely down to him we won the league so comfortably last year, but he wasn't taking a CL contending team to the top. He had a team that was capable of winning titles, and he won titles with them. This side, despite it's weaknesses, is more than good enough to finish inside the top 4. Do Spurs or Liverpool have better squads than us, for example?

This idea that he deserves 2 seasons no matter what barring relegation is honestly laughable. It's absolute nonsense. If Moyes takes a title challenging team to 5th, he'll probably go. if Moyes took a title challenging side to any lower than 5th/6th, there is almost no chance he'd be here. Mid-table or lower? He'll be gone by January in that case. I want to give him time, but if he finished in the bottom half then he'd be responsible for destroying this sides chances of competing for the title in the future. It's not going to happen, but if we came 10th-15th, then our top players would leave and we'd have no chance of success in the future. To suggest he should stay unless we get relegated no matter what is beyond ridiculous.

As I said earlier, Bayern missed on the CL recently. I think they have dine well since.I have no idea how long Rooney is going to stick around, but I won't be losing sleep if he left.

People on here laugh at Liverpool for a variety of reasons, some of them are really daft to be honest. Mind you, one of those reasons is getting on their new managers' backs after a couple of uninspiring performances.

Fergie is no longer our manager, and we need to adapt. Our choice was among available managers, and a Fergie clone was never an alternative. After 26 years the next management was always a risk, and I wouldn't rule out the possibility that players we were after weren't too keen for exactly that reason. In the circumstances, showing faith in youth was a bold move from Moyes and it paid off. I wish Fergie could could have done the same with Pogba a couple of seasons back.

The relegation comment was tongue in cheek too, but a top 4 trophy is something people on here laugh at Arsene Wenger for.

 

[Revan]

As I said earlier, Bayern missed on the CL recently. I think they have dine well since.I have no idea how long Rooney is going to stick around, but I won't be losing sleep if he left.

They don't have to pay 50m on debt every year though. And for every Bayern case we have a Liverpool or Inter. They won the treble just 3 seasons ago. Now they can't get even in Europa League. And I don't know half of their players. Money, bloody hell.

 

[Cheesy]

As I said earlier, Bayern missed on the CL recently. I think they have dine well since.I have no idea how long Rooney is going to stick around, but I won't be losing sleep if he left.

People on here laugh at Liverpool for a variety of reasons, some of them are really daft to be honest. Mind you, one of those reasons is getting on their new managers' backs after a couple of uninspiring performances.

Fergie is no longer our manager, and we need to adapt. Our choice was among available managers, and a Fergie clone was never an alternative. After 26 years the next management was always a risk, and I wouldn't rule out the possibility that players we were after weren't too keen for exactly that reason. In the circumstances, showing faith in youth was a bold move from Moyes and it paid off. I wish Fergie could could have done the same with Pogba a couple of seasons back.

The relegation comment was tongue in cheek too, but a top 4 trophy is something people on here laugh at Arsene Wenger for.

Bayern did, but that's a one-off example. To say that we'd be fine and winning as they have within a couple of years is incredibly short sighted.

It's not just Rooney. It's Van Persie. De Gea. Players like that. If we can't get top 4 and a good club comes in for them then they'll leave. How do we 'rebuild' if the clubs best players want to leave? How do we replace world class players without incentive for world class players to come?

Sure, Fergie isn't our manager and we can't expect instant success, but there's a difference between not being successful instantly and taking a squad capable of challenging for the title to 5th place. One is disappointing but understandable, the other is pure and simple failure.

Again, Moyes gave Januzaj a chance, but it's not as if he's some bold manager promoting youth throughout the side in a way other managers aren't. He gave a talented youngster a chance due to how incredibly poor our other wingers were; you seem determined to see it as some sort of bold, revolutionary move. Where is Zaha then if he's so keen on youngsters? Giving someone who deserves to play for the team a few games doesn't make you some sort of genius with youth. Almost any other manager would have done the exact same thing.

Yeah, we laugh at Arsenal for a top 4 trophy, so what does that make us then if we're not even able to reach that standard a year after winning the title?

 

[holyland red]

They don't have to pay 50m on debt every year though. And for every Bayern case we have a Liverpool or Inter. They won the treble just 3 seasons ago. Now they can't get even in Europa League. And I don't know half of their players. Money, bloody hell.

With all due respect Liverpool lost ground for two decades starting just just before sky took over of the game. Again, Inter are lightyears behind United commercially. Mentioning Inter, Juve dropped to Seria B and came back pretty quickly. People are hysterical about not being in the CL as if it wasn't only two years ago that we embarrassed ourselves in the competition by not seeing off some no marks in the group stage.

 

[LonelyFire]

Remember 2005? We haven't become as bad as we were that season yet.
Hopefully the style can improve. What bugs me is we are finding it hard to score from open play and the cagey substitutions.. Even if we weren't that good today. I feel looking back on the highlights (for I never caught the match) it looks like we should have scored more than once regardless, for we had enough chances to win. Yet it seems Moyes compounded our lack of taking chances by his weird substitutions.

Agreed we aren't there yet.

Moyes made the most negative substitutions possible. But it was inaction that was the problem - he says he told the players at HT that 1 wasn't enough....then why didn't he change the shape of our play with Kagawa or Zaha with 20 mins left? He should have pushed for 2nd but he didn't. It's that default negative mindset that will be his downfall

 

[holyland red]

Bayern did, but that's a one-off example. To say that we'd be fine and winning as they have within a couple of years is incredibly short sighted.

It's not just Rooney. It's Van Persie. De Gea. Players like that. If we can't get top 4 and a good club comes in for them then they'll leave. How do we 'rebuild' if the clubs best players want to leave? How do we replace world class players without incentive for world class players to come?

Sure, Fergie isn't our manager and we can't expect instant success, but there's a difference between not being successful instantly and taking a squad capable of challenging for the title to 5th place. One is disappointing but understandable, the other is pure and simple failure.

Again, Moyes gave Januzaj a chance, but it's not as if he's some bold manager promoting youth throughout the side in a way other managers aren't. He gave a talented youngster a chance due to how incredibly poor our other wingers were; you seem determined to see it as some sort of bold, revolutionary move. Where is Zaha then if he's so keen on youngsters? Giving someone who deserves to play for the team a few games doesn't make you some sort of genius with youth. Almost any other manager would have done the exact same thing.

Yeah, we laugh at Arsenal for a top 4 trophy, so what does that make us then if we're not even able to reach that standard a year after winning the title?

Well, Fergie didn't manage to keep Pogba, did he? Instead we're waiting for Anderson to finally fulfill his potential. Van Persie fianlly won the league after spending a good chunk of his career with a top manager elsewhere. I think he'll stick around, as he indicated lately. As for DDG, I never thought he's see out his career with us anyway, but we're deep into speculation here.

I understand the concern, but I can remember the days when I thought I'd never see us win the league. I just refuse to get hysterical because we might go through a transitinal period after having two decades of constant success.

 

[Revan]

With all due respect Liverpool lost ground for two decades starting just just before sky took over of the game. Again, Inter are lightyears behind United commercially. Mentioning Inter, Juve dropped to Seria B and came back pretty quickly. People are hysterical about not being in the CL as if it wasn't only two years ago that we embarrassed ourselves in the competition by not seeing off some no marks in the group stage.

Juve bounced back after 5 years, but that was partly because Milan and Inter became a bit shit. On EPL, we have two teams with unlimited money in City/Chelsea, a good team in Arsenal and two teams who are recently doing good on Spurs/LFC.

Even if we bounce back after 5 years, is it worth it though? Why lose 5 years because a manager who never played good football, likes defensive tactics, is negative and extremely cautiosu and is doing a shit job might somehow magically turn out to be good?

Moyes should be on stoppage time now, if United doesn't considerably improve by Christmass time he has to go IMO. Too many things are in stake, and we don't have the luxury of giving him 6 years because he might turn to be the next Fergie. He could easily turn out to be next Souness/Hodgson and until now the similiarities with their reigns have been very big.

Edit: Liverpool hasn't lost his name because of two decades without winning. They won UCL in 2005 which is a much bigger trophy for most of the players (especially foreign ones) than EPL. They were one of the best clubs in Europe on 2005-2009 (together with us and Milan). They become what they are because they had 2 incompetent managers replacing a decent (not great) one. And are still suffering from it. I am pretty sure that Liverpool fans in 2010 didn't expect than they won't qualify for UCL in next 3 years. Likely they won't qualify for much longer.

 

[Red Dreams]

ohhh please don't mention Souness....

 

[ItsEssexRob]

Juve bounced back after 5 years, but that was partly because Milan and Inter became a bit shit. On EPL, we have two teams with unlimited money in City/Chelsea, a good team in Arsenal and two teams who are recently doing good on Spurs/LFC.

Even if we bounce back after 5 years, is it worth it though? Why lose 5 years because a manager who never played good football, likes defensive tactics, is negative and extremely cautiosu and is doing a shit job might somehow magically turn out to be good?

Moyes should be on stoppage time now, if United doesn't considerably improve by Christmass time he has to go IMO. Too many things are in stake, and we don't have the luxury of giving him 6 years because he might turn to be the next Fergie. He could easily turn out to be next Souness/Hodgson and until now the similiarities with their reigns have been very big.

And who would you be getting in? Do you want to be setting the precedent that if the manager doesn't hit the ground running in filling the current biggest club job in the world football will be sacked before a single season?

 

[holyland red]

Juve bounced back after 5 years, but that was partly because Milan and Inter became a bit shit. On EPL, we have two teams with unlimited money in City/Chelsea, a good team in Arsenal and two teams who are recently doing good on Spurs/LFC.

Even if we bounce back after 5 years, is it worth it though? Why lose 5 years because a manager who never played good football, likes defensive tactics, is negative and extremely cautiosu and is doing a shit job might somehow magically turn out to be good?

Moyes should be on stoppage time now, if United doesn't considerably improve by Christmass time he has to go IMO. Too many things are in stake, and we don't have the luxury of giving him 6 years because he might turn to be the next Fergie. He could easily turn out to be next Souness/Hodgson and until now the similiarities with their reigns have been very big.

Juve were relegated after a bribe scandal and lost almost all their top players. We lost 3 games, including City and Liverpool FFS. We drew a football match this afternoon. Shock. Horror.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

......We have already reached Hodgson's Liverpool level.

Now that is pure bullshit