Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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While no-one can't argue that Moyes has been better (more succesful) manager than both of them, on the other side both Laudrup and Martinez are attacking-minded managers which I think is a pre-requisite if a team aspires to win a title.
They did have some impressive performances against us at home and got some very good results too, but one thing Moyes' team became infamous for was it's inability to ever win away against the traditional big 4. And I mean ever. In the PL, he had 43 games against the big 4 (loose term I know) and he never won against any of them. You wouldn't expect them to win week in, week out, but not one victory away in 43 for a side who consistently finished from 5th-8th in his later days and finished 4th once is quite telling.
There not Scottish for a start, I watched MUTV earlier with Mandy Henry, Gordon McQueen and Lou Macari, all Scottish. I will watch Paddy Crerand on Tuesday, another Scot. They are taking over.
One time they were the best; Busby,Shankly,Stein..legends
Agent Neville
He'd never admit it but I bet you, at the back of Phil's mind, he was secretly pleased with that own goal.
Funny that Whelan always said that Martinez should have waited for Utd and not Everton....not so funny now
I just think he peaked at Everton. He had them hovering around the same place for over 5 years. He did fantastic to turn them into what they became, but I think he just didn't have enough scope for improvement to turn them into champions league contenders. His style that he had Everton playing could only get them so far. We're seeing now with Martinez how much better they're looking. Not saying there will be an instant improvement, but his style has the potential to be better and get them further up the table then Moyes' style had.
He'd never admit it but I bet you, at the back of Phil's mind, he was secretly pleased with that own goal.
It was fecking Chicharitoesque
Also the Hungary national team, some times ago were great. Let's sign Tamas Priskin.
Why?
A couple of quality players would fix it. Moyes was given the financial backing to do just that. He didn't think Thiago, pursued in the past, was 'right' at £15m; backed away from spending more than £30m on a perfect player for us - Cesc Fabregas; showed the white feather on Herrera; then put the cherry on top of the shitcake by spending £27.5m on Fellaini.
We can see the effect this masterful performance in the market has had on our midfield. It's his responsibility.
With all due respect to young Welbeck, and I love to see local lads making it, Januzaj is on a different level. I'm not saying Ozil wouldn't contribute to United but a manager needs to weigh the top priorities given a budget (which we do not know) and young players coming through.
And Fergie has signed worse than Fellaini.
Are you sure about that?
I doub Thiago (or his agent) considered going anywhere other than Bayern, and we know little about the Fabregas chase other that he (probably) did not rule out a move. Haven't seen Herrera, so I'm not sure i have an opinion on that one. Sticking with Anderson and Cleverley for 6 and 3 years suggests that finding available quality CM isn't trivial. Or else, it may indicate that the previous manager didn't even think it was a priority. Moyes inherited a CM mess.
It wasn't the owners' fault we threw away 30 mil on Fellaini, when we could have dramatically improved out midfield by going after other players. Who knows how much more he had to spend, but 30 mil would probably have been enough to at least fix our starting 11 problems.
There's an argument that Kagawa lost out the most with RvP's signing. He might have been earmarked to play behind Rooney but then RvP's signing pushed him out of that role. Not sure I necessarily believe that, but if it was true it would show SAF was fairly ruthless if the chance to sign proven quality presented itself.
He did sign worse players than Fellaini but even still, I don't think he'd have gone for Fellaini. Baines, yes. Fellaini, no.
Well its the midfield he inherited with one addition, maybe two if you take Janujaz into account. I think Moyes decision to bring in Fellaini will flop but were no worse off squad wise than under Ferguson but Ferguson knew how to get the best from his players, Moyes has all of that to learn. Fabregas would have been perfect but Moyes at that point had no idea of his squads needs, perhaps it wise to have a season before throwing 40-45 million around, I am suitably pissed off with the 27 it took to bring Fellaini in mind you.
We won't know, will we? Fergie has had his howlers, nad so will Moyes. We're still 8 games into the season ffs and people here talk of sacking him.
Expecting Moyes to walk into the job and carry on from where Fergie left of is underestimating the greatness of SAF. It was always going to take time to find out how good Moyes was, and I seriously worry our own fans will undermine him.
The clues were there in pre season. He was talking about needing 2 years to be assessed - you can roughly translate that into "top 4 is the aim this season".
Look, he's a negative manager and he will not change. That's my problem. Too any Utd fans in this day age are spoilt, trophy addicted morons who haven't known the club to be unsuccessful. Well, some of us have seen those days. At least in the 80s we played some decent stuff without winning anything. If Moyes needs time then I'm looking for him to be progressive about the way we play. If not, I'd rather see someone else - but not for reasons like trophies. Let's see some decent attacking football!
Look, he's a negative manager and he will not change. That's my problem. Too any Utd fans in this day age are spoilt, trophy addicted morons who haven't known the club to be unsuccessful. Well, some of us have seen those days. At least in the 80s we played some decent stuff without winning anything. If Moyes needs time then I'm looking for him to be progressive about the way we play. If not, I'd rather see someone else - but not for reasons like trophies. Let's see some decent attacking football!
Maybe that is part of the problem, you bring in an experienced successful manager or you mentor someone within to take over when you go. I don't like to say this, the Liverpool boot room way.
It isn't the idea of not winning stuff that bothers me. It is the style of play, if we are not going to win, there has to be the compensation of watching attractive football.
We can't always win trophies...Things like other teams improving, re building etc can disrupt challenges for trophies...
However, I want to see United play exciting and adventurous football...One that makes you get out of your seat and shit your pants...Not this cack we're playing now..And I'm sorry to be critical but thats come from Moyes and his novice coaches like Neville and Giggs.
Course it's always disappointing not winning the league but it comes in cycles. What got me into United was the style of play from Cantona, Giggs and Kan Kan...Not this turgid shit we appear to be playing at the moment
However, I want to see United play exciting and adventurous football...One that makes you get out of your seat and shit your pants...Not this cack we're playing now..And I'm sorry to be critical but thats come from Moyes and his novice coaches like Neville and Giggs.
Course it's always disappointing not winning the league but it comes in cycles. What got me into United was the style of play from Cantona, Giggs and Kan Kan...Not this turgid shit we appear to be playing at the moment
Moyes reflects on MUFC draw: “The players have always been the people that have to turn out and do it on the pitch"
Way to alienate the team, blame them for this retarded start to the season.
Way to alienate the team, blame them for this retarded start to the season.
Is this something you can learn though? I was always of the opinion that charismatic managers can inspire teams, and make the players want do their best for you, and that is how you get the best out of them. It's not a matter of tactics or being nice to them, or fitting them all in together. Sir Alex said one of the most important things was to have the players respect you so you know that they will give their all for you. I think that's just something a manager either has, or he doesn't.
Who ever replaced SAF was going to find it difficult, if not impossible, when Moyes was appointed it did not excite me, but i saw it as a safe pair of hands, that would enable us to carry on competing, so far it hasn't worked like that, but its far too early yet to write Moyes off.
I am old enough to remember Busby retiring, and the current scenario reminds me of Wilf McGuiness and then Frank O Farrel, good people who demonstrated they should have a chance, but for whatever reason were unable to make it work'
Time will tell, people forget that SAF was not a hit overnight, and was close to losing his job at United, however the United that Moyes has taken over is a million miles from the United that SAF inherited, so it is only reasonable to have much higher expectations now.
Moyes makes decisions and substitutes that I dont understand, but then so did SAF, the difference was that like many others, I regarded SAF as knowing more than I ever will, yet I cant seem to give Moyes the same credit, maybe inside I dont think he has earnt that right yet.
Nothing would give me greater pleasure than looking back and saying Moyes was a great replacement, so far its not looking good, but its early days yet, we have been spoilt for a long time, Moyes could still be the man, I hope he proves it soon.
I am old enough to remember Busby retiring, and the current scenario reminds me of Wilf McGuiness and then Frank O Farrel, good people who demonstrated they should have a chance, but for whatever reason were unable to make it work'
Time will tell, people forget that SAF was not a hit overnight, and was close to losing his job at United, however the United that Moyes has taken over is a million miles from the United that SAF inherited, so it is only reasonable to have much higher expectations now.
Moyes makes decisions and substitutes that I dont understand, but then so did SAF, the difference was that like many others, I regarded SAF as knowing more than I ever will, yet I cant seem to give Moyes the same credit, maybe inside I dont think he has earnt that right yet.
Nothing would give me greater pleasure than looking back and saying Moyes was a great replacement, so far its not looking good, but its early days yet, we have been spoilt for a long time, Moyes could still be the man, I hope he proves it soon.
Moyes has already come out and said we lack the world class players to win the European Cup, this latest statement is fully in that mode. Is it any wonder the squad don't believe if their manager keeps insinuating he doesn't believe in them (and showing clearly by the players he prefers that he isn't sold on at least half of them).
So back to my own thoughts before we took Moyes. Most shot any idea of something like that down at the time, I personally felt that we'd definitely look at and consider him. But when Sir Alex announced he was leaving, to me it was too early for Moyes. So from being positive on the option that he could one day be our next manager, I was certainly negative about the appointment this summer. Just how I evaluated it.
So far there's so little to cling to as some proof that we're on the right track somewhere. The transfer window was diabolical, the results the same. And Moyes has fueled a lot of the naysayers opinions with his own personnel selections. Even the windup merchants from the summer have been given lots of fuel, peterstory's comments have been true to this point.
On the pitch the only real change we've seen is that after 90 minutes we usually have a point or less. Off the pitch he's uninspiring. And are there any players he's truly getting the best out of? Yeah Rooney has been our best player this season but even before his recent run of average or worse form, I didn't feel like we were getting the best of him just because he was scoring goals.
Come on Moyes, some signs of life would be welcome right about now...
So far there's so little to cling to as some proof that we're on the right track somewhere. The transfer window was diabolical, the results the same. And Moyes has fueled a lot of the naysayers opinions with his own personnel selections. Even the windup merchants from the summer have been given lots of fuel, peterstory's comments have been true to this point.
On the pitch the only real change we've seen is that after 90 minutes we usually have a point or less. Off the pitch he's uninspiring. And are there any players he's truly getting the best out of? Yeah Rooney has been our best player this season but even before his recent run of average or worse form, I didn't feel like we were getting the best of him just because he was scoring goals.
Come on Moyes, some signs of life would be welcome right about now...
You have to learn your players strengths and even how to motivate each individual, it takes time for any manager in any field to settle into a new managerial role. It's as much about the team as it is about the leader.
Respect is earned and again will take a little time, Moyes does look to have the dressing room though so I am fairly confident things will turn out for the best.
I said at HT in the Sunderland game that keeping Januzaj was more important to me than a top 4 finish. We're light years from winning the CL, and making the numbers in the competition is pointless bar the fat bundle of cash. Missing out on that cash could force the Glazers to spend big to make sure it doesn't happen again.
A big name manager could well have targeted a top 4 finish at the expense of blooding in youngsters. I know what I prefer. I am still buzzing from Januzaj 5-year contract. If Moyes is blamed for the stuttering start he should also get at least some credit for securing the signature of a top talent who could have walked for free in a few months.
More Hodgson than Roy.
I've been more disappointed in our team than I have been in David Moyes. Too many players are playing way below the level we all know they are capable of way too often. We have more than enough quality on the pitch to win a game like today, and I dont see how we can focus all the fault at Moyes. Its as though they have gone into collective mourning when on the pitch and thats simply not good enough for top professionals.
Very much how I feel. I wrote off winning anything this season, very few new managers come in and achieve immediate success at any club and there were clearly some issues with our squad despite our title win last season. I just want to see some positivity and a glimmer of promise and excitement. There's none of that, just the same boring predictably conservative and unimaginative stuff we saw Moyes conjure up in 10 years at Everton.
Its part of his job to motivate these people. And if the ones usually selected arent playing in a motivated fashion, we have enough in the squad for him to play someone who is... Thats if anyone at all is motivated. And if they arent, then the problem is with Moyes
Agree, talk of firing Moyes this early is madness. Still, no point in pretending Moyes hasn't made things more difficult for himself either. Moyes wouldn't have been my choice for the job but even I'm shocked at how poor we've been so far. I thought Moyes would certainly do better than this, which makes me suspect things will indeed improve significantly as the season goes on. Whether they improve enough remains to be seen.
Agreed. I said it before, but I'd be fine with a few Arsenal-esque years where we play good attacking football, but don't really challenge for the title. I'm not expecting us to so soon after Sir Alex leaving. The thing I can't accept though is how poor our play has been. I want to enjoy watching United, I want to see exciting games. What I don't want is us to be grinding our occasional results and squeeze into the Champions league by playing the type of football we are right now. I'm sure most on here would agree with me on that.
The thing that is the worst this season, is that there is no real direction that the club is heading in, other then downwards. We don't have some set style you can see us trying to play. We aren't playing quick football, we aren't trying to be a great counter attacking team, we aren't even doing slow but built up possession play. What we are doing is sitting deep, letting the opposition have it and then when we get it, we just have the same old zombie static passing, leading to nothing in particular until it gets to the feet of one of our more creative players. Then we just hope they think of something to do. If they don't, we just lump it into the box hoping for the best.
It's not all his fault, and I thought he lost us two points today.
He did better with Naismith and Anicebe ffs. The players have to take some of the blame. I also think a new manager deserves a chance to shape his own squad, and as I pointed out earlier he inherited the worst CM in the top 4, an aging CB pairing and an unsettled Rooney. He deserves more than 8 games considering he is following the footsteps of our greatest ever manager.
If it's exciting football you want, I think Moyes already gave the answer in his first press conference. I remember he was asked about the style and talked about how the important part was winning games. So it's clearly going to be substance over style. We're not quite getting the substance thing right yet.
Which is utterly depressing.
He also inherited Phil Jones, Chris Smalling, and Jonny Evans, so the aging CB bit of the argument doesn't fly. Rooney might still leave, and who knows who else will be seeking employment elsewhere if we don't qualify for the CL.
Every manager deserves more than 8 games, if we fired Moyes now we'd be the fickle gloryhunters rival fans always claimed we were. It's absolute nonsense. Agree that the squad has glaring weaknesses too but even still, we should be good enough to at least be competing for the title. Anyway, it's clearly going to improve so a bit of patience is in order.
I'm just shocked at the position we're in. I knew it wouldn't be plain sailing with a new manager but the problems Moyes is suffering has been much more than I expected.
I am finding it more difficult to blame the players too. Yes they are not on form but they just wouldn't be playing this badly this under Fergie. So I have to question whether Moyes is capable of organising and utilising them correctly.
I don't want him gone but I hope he figures out how to fix things quickly. We are really in a bit of trouble now.
I am finding it more difficult to blame the players too. Yes they are not on form but they just wouldn't be playing this badly this under Fergie. So I have to question whether Moyes is capable of organising and utilising them correctly.
I don't want him gone but I hope he figures out how to fix things quickly. We are really in a bit of trouble now.
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