Moyes: "January not an easy month to purchase in. We have a good squad."

Kid Cunto said:
Is January really a bad time to do business in, do we think? There's been some great January signings in the past, although not all were immediate impacts. From memory I can think of Ivanovic, Vidic, Evra, Mascherano, Sturridge and Suarez...
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I'm not 100% convinced that it is as difficult as made out. I think it's based primarily on that big transfer aren't conducted in Jan but that's because sensible clubs do their business in the summer and it's almost unheard of, of a Madrid, Barca, Bayern etc being so off the pace and in danger of not qualifying for the CL as we are. If Madrid were 7th half-way through the season and were desperate for reinforcements, I'd wager they wouldn't have trouble in getting good players in January.

Clubs would be more reluctant to sell and may need slightly more financial compensation but how is it any different to buy Fellaini with 1 minute to go to the transfer deadline - Everton couldn't reinvest and were short, so we paid over the odds to get him.
 
Kid Cunto said:
Is January really a bad time to do business in, do we think? There's been some great January signings in the past, although not all were immediate impacts. From memory I can think of Ivanovic, Vidic, Evra, Mascherano, Sturridge and Suarez...
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The only argument I can make to counteract the impact Coutinho and Sturridge made to Liverpool last year is that we're shopping at a different end of the market to them, both those players were bit part players at their previous clubs but came to Liverpool and became automatic starters; not sure how much use reserve team players from Inter or Chelsea will be to us.... though I guess there is Mata ;)
 
datura said:
No one knows what would happen with a different manager, anyone else might have struggled as much if not more.
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More? I'm not even sure it's possible. We're a mid-table side right now after winning the league with a big gap last season. I cannot see how you could call this season anything but a massive disappointment.
 
^^^ I honestly fail to envision anyone making as big a balls up in the transfer market over the summer as Moyes did, the problem started there
 
AlwaysRedwood said:
Delusion.
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Hmmm. You weren't so dismissive about our players in May.

Erentz said:
I think they would, he needs to be challenging for a title, he's not got a rebuilding job to do ffs, he's got to hit the ground running, and that means challenging on all fronts while playing attacking football. If he doesn't do that the supporters will quite rightly be on his back.

This isn't remotely like when Busby left, or when Fergie first took over. Moyes is inheriting a well run machine, there's no excuses if he can't keep it running. It'll be out you go sunshine, don't let the door hit you in the arse on the way out.
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storey's reply:

peterstorey said:
He's got plenty to do:

- Evra, Carrick, Vidic, Ferdinand and Giggs are on the way out
- CM still needs attention
- Young and Valencia were piss-poor all season
- van Persie will get crocked
- Rooney wants out
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And then you:

AlwaysRedwood said:
- Evra, Carrick, Vidic, Ferdinand and Giggs are on the way out

Fabio
Carrick's got some time in him.
Vidic has some time in him.
Ferdinand. Really? You haven't noticed United grooming CM's? At all?
Giggs - We haven't relied on Giggs in a couple of years the way this implies.

- CM still needs attention

Obvious

- Young and Valencia were piss-poor all season

Young's just a squad player. Valencia showed signs of gettng back to form late.

- van Persie will get crocked

I heard that when we bought him How'd that work out?

- Rooney wants out


Bye
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Delusion, eh? You challenged storey's points - which he made in response to a suggestion that Moyes should be challenging for the title. A view that, apparently, wasn't as delusional back then. You've just suddenly decided at one point since then that our squad is shit. Pogue and many other top reds had similar, baffling turnarounds in the name of "backing our manager".

Y'know, at least Twiggy is consistent.
 
You would think a manager that went 10 years with no money would want to splurge like a muppet on speed the second he got his hands on the transfer kitty

Or did we hire a manager who was especially good at working within a budget?? hmmm...
 
If he honestly believes we have a really good squad that doesn't need a couple of instant fixes, then he must also believe he's doing a terrible job
 
There's an excuse for failure at every turn:

- Summer '13 - Moyes only just started
- Jan '14 - it's a tough time to do business
- Forthcoming Summer - tough to get players in because of the World Cup

It's a fecking miracle we've ever signed anyone with all these impediments.
 
Feed Me said:
There's an excuse for failure at every turn:

- Summer '13 - Moyes only just started
- Jan '14 - it's a tough time to do business
- Forthcoming Summer - tough to get players in because of the World Cup

It's a fecking miracle we've ever signed anyone with all these impediments.
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Oh christ that's so going to happen isn't it :(
 
Feed Me said:
There's an excuse for failure at every turn:

- Summer '13 - Moyes only just started
- Jan '14 - it's a tough time to do business
- Forthcoming Summer - tough to get players in because of the World Cup plus no Champions League football to offer.

It's a fecking miracle we've ever signed anyone with all these impediments.
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Fixed.
 
I'm starting to think it's pretty fecking easy to get transfers done. I mean, you just pay what all parties concerned want and you sign the player.

I think we need to do this from now on.
 
Pexbo said:
I'm starting to think it's pretty fecking easy to get transfers done. I mean, you just pay what all parties concerned want and you sign the player.

I think we need to do this from now on.
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The annoying thing is we pretty much ended up doing that for our expensive signings in recent times - Fellaini, Young, Berbatov, etc. They just werent that good a signing.
 
Pexbo said:
I'm starting to think it's pretty fecking easy to get transfers done. I mean, you just pay what all parties concerned want and you sign the player.

I think we need to do this from now on.
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No, you scout over-extensively, consider a bid, dawdle, dawdle some more, lodge a derisory bid, see bid rejected, dawdle further, add a derisory sum to the derisory bid, watch player go to another club.
 
Feed Me said:
No, you scout over-extensively, consider a bid, dawdle, dawdle some more, lodge a derisory bid, see bid rejected, dawdle further, add a derisory sun to the derisory bid, watch player go to another club.
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I don't think that will work. That sounds like how not to sign players.
 
nahealai said:
feck me, some of you need to get laid, or something.

What's with all the negativity? We're not even three fecking days into the transfer window!
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I think it's a reaction to Moyes' comments in the thread title... which we've now heard for the past 5 years in one form or another.
 
Feed Me said:
I think it's a reaction to Moyes' comments in the thread title... which we've now heard for the past 5 years in one firm or another.
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Well can we not at least change our M.O, then? We respond to the comments exactly the same way every time: like spoilt bell-whiffs who are anxious at the idea that we can no longer just go ahead and outbid everyone for anyone. As you say, it's been like this for five years now. Do we need the hysterics and clichéd jokes every time?
 
nahealai said:
Well can we not at least change our M.O, then? We respond to the comments exactly the same way every time: like spoilt bell-whiffs who are anxious at the idea that we can no longer just go ahead and outbid everyone for anyone. As you say, it's been like this for five years now. Do we need the hysterics and clichéd jokes every time?
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Not sure how else you want us to react? Hearing the same nonsense from the club is hugely frustrating, not least because it's bollocks - plenty of clubs do good transfer business without breaking the bank. United just continually look for excuses for not getting the job done in the transfer market.
 
nahealai said:
Well can we not at least change our M.O, then? We respond to the comments exactly the same way every time: like spoilt bell-whiffs who are anxious at the idea that we can no longer just go ahead and outbid everyone for anyone. As you say, it's been like this for five years now. Do we need the hysterics and clichéd jokes every time?
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Some people accept nonsense and mediocrity. Those fans see their clubs go without a trophy for the best part of a decade before things start to turn around. Others arent interested in going down that path
 
We got fecked in the summer. We were never likely to find value in January if we couldn't in July, and the summer that follows is a World Cup year.

How did the transitional summer go so wrong, and where was the war chest? Not unreasonable to be asking this stuff.
 
NewDawnFades said:
We got fecked in the summer. We were never likely to find value in January if we couldn't in July, and the summer that follows is a World Cup year.

How did the transitional summer go so wrong, and where was the war chest? Not unreasonable to be asking this stuff.
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Pretty sure warchest was there. Most clubs in the league will have a warchest for a new manager. I am pretty sure a club as well run as United would have that in place and a substantial one -- if we are willing to pay over the odds for a player like the Afro Fellaini, we have the money. Crist, he is like out 3rd biggest buy in United's history. Money is there albeit wasted.

Woodie and Moyes just fecked it up by chasing the rainbow targets.
 
Siorac said:
Delusion, eh? You challenged storey's points - which he made in response to a suggestion that Moyes should be challenging for the title. A view that, apparently, wasn't as delusional back then. You've just suddenly decided at one point since then that our squad is shit. Pogue and many other top reds had similar, baffling turnarounds in the name of "backing our manager".

Y'know, at least Twiggy is consistent.
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Hilarious that you read into that what you wanted. I always feck with Storey. But let's go through it.


- Evra, Carrick, Vidic, Ferdinand and Giggs are on the way out

Fabio
Carrick's got some time in him.
Vidic has some time in him.
Ferdinand. Really? You haven't noticed United grooming CM's? At all?
Giggs - We haven't relied on Giggs in a couple of years the way this implies.
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Fabio. How wrong was I?
Carrick still has time in him. Right.
Vidic still has time in him - Right.
Ferdinand being replaced - Right.
Giggs isn't a player we've relied upon - Right.

-

- CM still needs attention

Obvious
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Obvious indeed.

-
- Young and Valencia were piss-poor all season

Young's just a squad player. Valencia showed signs of gettng back to form late.
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Wrong about Valencia.
Young is nothing more than a squad player.

-
- van Persie will get crocked

I heard that when we bought him How'd that work out?
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Boy was I wrong about that one. But I enjoy the shit out of poking Storey. And I said nothing about Rooney because I thought he'd be gone.

Now show me where I said we'd have Carrick and RVP out and still be "challenging" for the title. Actually, show me where I said we'd be challenging for the title at all. What you do see me doing is countering the one guy I consider to be the biggest troll on the Caf, while you use someone else's words in an attempt to show they were my argument.

Point remains. Delusional to think we'd challenge for the title with the squad in it's current form.

Lotta work you've done researching. Rather sad.
 
sglowrider said:
Pretty sure warchest was there. Most clubs in the league will have a warchest for a new manager. I am pretty sure a club as well run as United would have that in place and a substantial one -- if we are willing to pay over the odds for a player like the Afro Fellaini, we have the money. Crist, he is like out 3rd biggest buy in United's history. Money is there albeit wasted.

Woodie and Moyes just fecked it up by chasing the rainbow targets.
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There's been no evidence of a war chest for quite some time.
 
It's the best thing he could have said about the transfer window really.

His main priority now is to motivate the current players to play better. Until he actually signs new players, it makes no sense to belittle the current ones (although, he knows they are not in good form) by saying he is looking to replace them soon.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Yes. Our problem is we don't have a single creative central midfielder and the only one we have capable of doing the job even a bit is 40.
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To be fair, on top of that our entire midfield is fairly static, slow and incapable of shaping up to screen the back 4. Even with Carrick it's still painful to watch everyone stand perfectly still off the ball and expect things to occur in front of them.
 
Our squad is fine, our first team lacks quality. Simple really.

In most positions we have players who can be comfortably swapped in and out of the team without massively damaging our level of performance. Unfortunately we have a few positions where none of our interchangeable players are actually good enough to be starting regularly for an elite team anyway.

This is what Moyes meant when he said we needed players who'd go straight into the first team. We need to replace some of these so-so squad players with actual stand out quality.
 
Ryan's Beard said:
To be fair, on top of that our entire midfield is fairly static, slow and incapable of shaping up to screen the back 4. Even with Carrick it's still painful to watch everyone stand perfectly still off the ball and expect things to occur in front of them.
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I blame a refusal to employ pressing tactics. For the last few seasons United simply stand off the opponents who have the ball and hope falling back in numbers will miraculously induce mistakes in the opposition.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
I blame a refusal to employ pressing tactics. For the last few seasons United simply stand off the opponents who have the ball and hope falling back in numbers will miraculously induce mistakes in the opposition.
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This is true. We're not set up well to press either, to be honest. Carrick can't press, he'll end up out of position and God knows we need him in position. It falls to Carrick's partner (who usually can't tackle, to be fair, so him pressing is more of him running at a player then getting walked past), Rooney and potentially the wingers. The problem then is when we win the ball back, if our team has compacted during defending we don't have the composure to keep the ball in the crowded middle for any period of time so it has to be lumped forward or out wide hopefully. With a good old fix to (shock) the midfield we'd be much better placed to fecking do something off the ball. Anything, really, would be nice.
 
Ryan's Beard said:
This is true. We're not set up well to press either, to be honest. Carrick can't press, he'll end up out of position and God knows we need him in position. It falls to Carrick's partner (who usually can't tackle, to be fair, so him pressing is more of him running at a player then getting walked past), Rooney and potentially the wingers. The problem then is when we win the ball back, if our team has compacted during defending we don't have the composure to keep the ball in the crowded middle for any period of time so it has to be lumped forward or out wide hopefully. With a good old fix to (shock) the midfield we'd be much better placed to fecking do something off the ball. Anything, really, would be nice.
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Fair enough. Personally, I don't buy the 'Carrick can't press'' excuse. Busquets is just almost slow as him. Xavi is slower. Only Iniesta has reasonable speed yet Barca's boys used to press the living daylights out of all of Europe. Messi and co up front were just an added bonus helping out with it. I'm convinced pressing is a tactical thing rather than a personnel thing. I mean just watch a Southampton play. I wouldn't call the likes of Schneiderlin , Ward-Prowse or Cork superior on the ball or in tight spaces to Carrick. Yet they thrive on that style.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Yes. Our problem is we don't have a single creative central midfielder and the only one we have capable of doing the job even a bit is 40.
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I think the biggest problem with our squad is it is terribly balanced. Defenders are all either 3-4 years away from being potentially good enough to be starters at united, or past it and old and injury prone. Midfield there is nobody, wingers are all squad players at best with januzaj potentially world class and the up front we have 2 world class strikers, 1 fantastic impact sub who is never used anymore and then 1 potentially excellent forward, who should be getting more games in his position if he is to ever reach his potential.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Fair enough. Personally, I don't buy the 'Carrick can't press'' excuse. Busquets is just almost slow as him. Xavi is slower. Only Iniesta has reasonable speed yet Barca's boys used to press the living daylights out of all of Europe. Messi and co up front were just an added bonus helping out with it. I'm convinced pressing is a tactical thing rather than a personnel thing. I mean just watch a Southampton play. I wouldn't call the likes of Schneiderlin , Ward-Prowse or Cork superior on the ball or in tight spaces to Carrick. Yet they thrive on that style.
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The difference is that those teams and midfields all press as one. I think you're definitely right in saying Carrick's got the ability to thrive in such a system but I'm not sure we have the players to craft a system like that for him. Maybe if we played him with Ando and Cleverly we'd see something but those two just seem so defensively non-existent, certainly Cleverly recently. Perhaps we could get our current squad to do it but then you're maybe leaving out Rooney or RvP (not an issue if they're both crocked of course). I think we'd struggle just because the players we have don't play that system and never have. They'd need a whole new course of teaching and drilling to all press as one etc. Given that currently we don't move to receive throw ins, we're not likely to suddenly have the coordination to close an attacking team down. One or two sensible signings would allow us to play proper football I think. Moyes is going to have to be pretty brave though I think because it's going to be difficult to fit everyone into a system that plays football as opposed to a system that has Januzaj, Rooney and RvP playing football and everyone else trying desperately to hoof it at one of them.
 
It's over guys. The days of title challenges, cl finals and big money signings are gone. We are now midtable. Like Fergie said every team has a cycle. We are done. *cries all huddled up in a corner*
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Fair enough. Personally, I don't buy the 'Carrick can't press'' excuse. Busquets is just almost slow as him. Xavi is slower. Only Iniesta has reasonable speed yet Barca's boys used to press the living daylights out of all of Europe. Messi and co up front were just an added bonus helping out with it. I'm convinced pressing is a tactical thing rather than a personnel thing. I mean just watch a Southampton play. I wouldn't call the likes of Schneiderlin , Ward-Prowse or Cork superior on the ball or in tight spaces to Carrick. Yet they thrive on that style.
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Agreed. Carrick can press well. He is a good presser, not doubt about that, and Moyes has already tried to press opponents high. We don't do it for long periods of a game, but when we do press high up the field, we have looked decent at it. This is an example of it here (pressing after the ball has been lost):

 
bosnian_red said:
I think the biggest problem with our squad is it is terribly balanced. Defenders are all either 3-4 years away from being potentially good enough to be starters at united, or past it and old and injury prone. Midfield there is nobody, wingers are all squad players at best with januzaj potentially world class and the up front we have 2 world class strikers, 1 fantastic impact sub who is never used anymore and then 1 potentially excellent forward, who should be getting more games in his position if he is to ever reach his potential.
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Agree and this is compounded by the fact that we're playing shit football and that we spunked 30mil on Fellaini who doesn't come anywhere close to solving any of the problems...it's all very random and there doesn't seem to be any strategy in place for sorting it out.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Fair enough. Personally, I don't buy the 'Carrick can't press'' excuse. Busquets is just almost slow as him. Xavi is slower. Only Iniesta has reasonable speed yet Barca's boys used to press the living daylights out of all of Europe. Messi and co up front were just an added bonus helping out with it. I'm convinced pressing is a tactical thing rather than a personnel thing. I mean just watch a Southampton play. I wouldn't call the likes of Schneiderlin , Ward-Prowse or Cork superior on the ball or in tight spaces to Carrick. Yet they thrive on that style.
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Agree completely. When its done to us people get on Carrick's case about not doing well when being pressed but they never seem to acknowledge the fact that our system doesn't lend itself to deal with that. We play as wide as we can, will our players as spread out as they can be, that makes it so much harder to deal with teams that press. If someone is pressing Busquets he's got a number of short options that aren't backwards open, Carrick rarely would have this. Our failings with high pressing are mostly tactical I would say as well both when used against other teams and when used against us.
 
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