Moyes has to go

[FineYoungCasual]

For Moyes to be the next target, it has to be THE criteria. As they are so different in many other ways.

Anyhow, if only I thought we really really made our choice that way. For some reason I think it was done far more simplistic.

I think it was the main criteria. We saw in recent(ish) transfers Fergie started to rely increasingly heavily on PL proven players, sometimes at the expense of true quality.

Moyes might be seen as comparable to a 'safe' Fergie transfer such as Young, Owen or Valencia.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

or Rafa Benitez...

Ugh.

 

[MoBeats]

Rumours growing about Hernadez and RVP leaving in the Summer... Hernadez looks inevitable now having said "they don't take me much into account".

So we can add strikeforce to the list that needs rebuilding.

its ok, we'll get Andy Carroll in the summer.

 

[Sassy Colin]

Benitez
Redknapp
Mancini
Ancelotti

I presume you mean Jamie?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

its ok, we'll get Andy Carroll in the summer.

LOLZ!!! ROFLMAO!! This place is so full of great jokes these days!!

 

[Getsme]

Why is it so important that a manager has PL or UCL experience? If they are good enough they will adapt.

 

[Keenst]

I would take neither Redknapp nor Benitez. At least Moyes isn't a dickhead.

 

[Bross]

Juan Mata is a player with outstanding individual skills and will probably win you points because of that but I have a hard time believing that he will archive his top level in your current set up.

Thats exactly what he will do

Yes I know it was a typo

 

[Kaos]

Jonathan Wilson was talking about this on Football Weekly. The way he broke it down was quite simple.

The club has two options, go for a manager with a proven track record of success in the CL or in the PL. Once Mourinho's ruled out (for whatever reason) that leaves nobody which ticks both boxes.

If they decide that PL experience is the more important of the two, then it's really not hard to see why Moyes was very near the top of the list.

'PL experience' is hardly an outstanding trait to have though is it? Sam Allardyce has Premier League experience, as do the likes of Pardew, Redknapp and Mark Hughes. Would you have any of them as United manager?

 

[Getsme]

'PL experience' is hardly an outstanding trait to have though is it? Sam Allardyce has Premier League experience, as do the likes of Pardew, Redknapp and Mark Hughes. Would you have any of them as United manager?

Correct. It's a pointless argument really.

 

[Bross]

CL experience isnt really an outstanding trait either though tbf. We wouldnt appoint Solbakken just because he managed in the CL a few seasons.

A more realistic target would be "someone who has managed a club in one of the 5 major leagues and has experience playing in European competitions". I dont think that we had a list of criteria to be honest. Im pretty sure it was just SAF saying "Moyes is my man". I cant see what kind of reasonable list that would have Moyes be the first and best fit..

 

[Rozay]

Jonathan Wilson was talking about this on Football Weekly. The way he broke it down was quite simple.

The club has two options, go for a manager with a proven track record of success in the CL or in the PL. Once Mourinho's ruled out (for whatever reason) that leaves nobody which ticks both boxes.

If they decide that PL experience is the more important of the two, then it's really not hard to see why Moyes was very near the top of the list.

Then you get Ancelotti who has actually won both.

 

[Adebesi]

I think PL experience is a valid thing to require. It is one of those things, having it shouldnt qualify you, but not having it might be a better reason to disqualify you. Abramovich has certainly found quite a few experienced managers have struggled with the demands of the PL, just as players have. I wouldnt say it is an absolute deal breaker but its important.

 

[gulli_G]

if he goes, Klopp, or the Argie at Athletico (beckham's mate)

 

[Kaos]

I think PL experience is a valid thing to require. It is one of those things, having it shouldnt qualify you, but not having it might be a better reason to disqualify you. Abramovich has certainly found quite a few experienced managers have struggled with the demands of the PL, just as players have. I wouldnt say it is an absolute deal breaker but its important.

Mourinho and Ancelotti were brought into the PL by Abramovich. Neither have previously managed in the league yet both had managed to win it in their first season of managing Chelsea. A top tier manager with a winning history and mentality will tend to seamlessly adapt to another top team in another league, regardless how much prior experience they have in it.

 

[Rozay]

To be honest, I just want this season to end. Disaster it's been. The entire enegry around the club is all negtive. Every day I look on news now or twitter and there's another article or someone else has something to say about how terrible we are nd how the world is falling down around us.

We need to just make it to the summer and click F5 on everything.

 

[Adebesi]

There are examples of those that did, like the two you mention, and those that didnt like Scolari and AVB. Even Benitez. So yes, as I said I wouldnt say it is a deal breaker but I would say it is nice to have. I dont know much about Klopp other than what I read on here but Id be happy to give him a go for example.

 

[Kostur]

Benitez
Redknapp
Mancini
Ancelotti

I don't know why you'd put Ancelotti in the list of 'retards we don't want as our manager'. He's a sound lad.

 

[Getsme]

There are examples of those that did, like the two you mention, and those that didnt like Scolari and AVB. Even Benitez. So yes, as I said I wouldnt say it is a deal breaker but I would say it is nice to have. I dont know much about Klopp other than what I read on here but Id be happy to give him a go for example.

Scolari and AVB I agree with but Benitez?
Yes it's nice to have on your CV, but it should mean absolutely nothing if you are up against a candidate with a proven record of winning trophies. Moyes for example has many years experience in the Premier League yet has no experience in winning at the highest level.

 

[Adebesi]

Ancelotti has always stuck me as a good shout. I was quietly hoping for him before Moyes was confirmed. That's another advantage of waiting a few more months, surely Madrid will be finished with him soon.

 

[Adebesi]

Benitez had won some stuff with Valencia before he went to Liverpool hadnt he?

 

[Red Dreams]

Ancelotti has always stuck me as a good shout. I was quietly hoping for him before Moyes was confirmed. That's another advantage of waiting a few more months, surely Madrid will be finished with him soon.

top manager.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

The scouse's new banner.

 

[MoskvaRed]

Then you get Ancelotti who has actually won both.

Some players can't adapt to the PL but i think the difference between leagues is much less important at managerial level. Ancelotti won the league without any prior PL experience, while Wenger won it in his second season. In other words, there is less risk of an established club manager doing the equivalent of a "Veron". We"ll go overseas for the next manager - the only Brits in the top half are Rodgers (obviously unthinkable and still a bit unproven), Pardew (hopefully unthinkable for different reasons and, in any case, Sir Bobby wouldn't like the headbutting), Sherwood (rookie) and Big Sam (I won't make a snide remark as I think his work at Bolton was every bit as good as Moyes's at Everton).

 

[Pogue Mahone]

'PL experience' is hardly an outstanding trait to have though is it? Sam Allardyce has Premier League experience, as do the likes of Pardew, Redknapp and Mark Hughes. Would you have any of them as United manager?

What is it with people and not reading posts?

I said a "proven track record of success" in the PL. Moyes has taken a club from the relegation zone to operating consistently on he fringes of CL football, all on a shoe-string of a budget. Something that can't be said about any of those managers, most of whom have some fairly serious blots on their PL managerial CV.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

To be honest, I just want this season to end. Disaster it's been. The entire enegry around the club is all negtive. Every day I look on news now or twitter and there's another article or someone else has something to say about how terrible we are nd how the world is falling down around us.

We need to just make it to the summer and click F5 on everything.

Just as well we can rely on the solid citizens of redcafe to buck that trend, eh?

 

[yanuzay]

Federico Macheda: Sir Alex Ferguson believed in me but David Moyes doesn't. But I will get career back on track

Before reading this article, nearly every manager done the same thing. So you can't use that in your arguments against Moyes.

 

[Siorac]

What is it with people and not reading posts?

I said a "proven track record of success" in the PL. Moyes has taken a club from the relegation zone to operating consistently on he fringes of CL football, all on a shoe-string of a budget. Something that can't be said about any of those managers, most of whom have some fairly serious blots on their PL managerial CV.

Allardyce has a pretty good record in the top flight. The only "blot" on his CV is Newcastle - a club which finished 13th in the previous season and sacked him when they were 11th. His achievements with Bolton are certainly comparable to what Moyes did at Everton.

His football is painful and the man himself is unbearable but his record is not bad.

 

[Kaos]

What is it with people and not reading posts?

I said a "proven track record of success" in the PL. Moyes has taken a club from the relegation zone to operating consistently on he fringes of CL football, all on a shoe-string of a budget. Something that can't be said about any of those managers, most of whom have some fairly serious blots on their PL managerial CV.

Allardyce did the same thing with Bolton and they might still be up there had he not ditched them for the cursed Newcastle job.

As United are the most successful football club in English football with no less than 49 trophies being won by the last manager, you'd expect that 'proven track record of success' in a potential would include a few trophies. Moyes has zero trophies to his name.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Allardyce has a pretty good record in the top flight. The only "blot" on his CV is Newcastle - a club which finished 13th in the previous season and sacked him when they were 11th. His achievements with Bolton are certainly comparable to what Moyes did at Everton.

His football is painful and the man himself is unbearable but his record is not bad.

Oh come on. Wasn't 6th Bolton's best ever achievement under Allardyce? Apart from that one season he built his reputation at Bolton based on avoiding relegation (and kicking Arsenal players up in the air - and admirable quality, to be fair). Not remotely comparable to what Moyes achieved at Everton. Sacked by Newcastle and Blackburn since.

 

[Adebesi]

Everton are a much bigger club than Bolton though.

Now if a manager managed to get Bolton finishing around 6th for the best part of a decade, that really would be a manager in some demand.

 

[Getsme]

Comparing Moyes to Allardyce is like comparing Ferguson to Moyes.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Everton are a much bigger club than Bolton though.

Now if a manager managed to get Bolton finishing around 6th for the best part of a decade, that really would be a manager in some demand.

Historically, yes.

The net spend table here gives a more accurate indication of what their status should have been throughout most of Moyes' tenure.

 

[MoskvaRed]

Allardyce did the same thing with Bolton and they might still be up there had he not ditched them for the cursed Newcastle job.

As United are the most successful football club in English football with no less than 49 trophies being won by the last manager, you'd expect that 'proven track record of success' in a potential would include a few trophies. Moyes has zero trophies to his name.

Yes, it's a very generous interpretation of success in the context of United, particularly as he seemed

Oh come on. Wasn't 6th Bolton's best ever achievement under Allardyce? Apart from that one season he built his reputation at Bolton based on avoiding relegation (and kicking Arsenal players up in the air - and admirable quality, to be fair). Not remotely comparable to what Moyes achieved at Everton. Sacked by Newcastle and Blackburn since.

No way. He kept Bolton in the top flight for the longest spell since the fifties, and, once they consolidated, they were comfortably mid to upper-mid table. He also got them to a cup final and integrated some talented players, in addition to kicking Arsenal off the pitch. Relative to the size of the clubs, that is in my opinion a bigger achievement than what Moyes did at Everton (the equivalent would be Moyes doing that with Preston).

 

[Adebesi]

Historically, yes.

The net spend table here gives a more accurate indication of what their status should have been throughout most of Moyes' tenure.

What about wages? (Not being a smart arse, I assume Everton pay more but I dont know.)

 

[Pogue Mahone]

What about wages? (Not being a smart arse, I assume Everton pay more but I dont know.)

No idea. I also don't know what Bolton was spending on transfers under Big Sam.

Anyway, you can't look at his career at Bolton in isolation. Perhaps if Fergie quit in 06/07 then Allardyce would have been one of the candidates? He was very highly rated at the time. Didn't have the same long-term record of PL success that Moyes has now though.

 

[Adebesi]

Some days you spend your days speculating about whether Moyes should go and it is a bit depressing but at least the names being bandied around are Mourinho and Klopp. Then I feel grumpy because it strikes me as being unrealistic but at least if I suspend disbelief I can imagine a future with United getting back to winning things regularly and holding our heads up high.

But then there are days when there is still speculation about Moyes going but the names being bandied about are Martinez and Allardyce. That is depressing on a whole different level.

 

[Rozay]

Just as well we can rely on the solid citizens of redcafe to buck that trend, eh?

I'm not really bothered bout negativity within the caf as such, in fact find it annoying when people almost try to cleanse everyone's thoughts on here.

As much as I may have a go at various aspects of the club on here, you would never know it if you heard me speak to rival fans, or even United fans in reality. I almost see myself as an ambassador, and have defended people who I don't think deserve it more often than not. That said, I think amongst 'bretheren' on the caf, we should be able to speak our mind, united in what should be the knowledge that we all ultimately want the same thing.

I think it's like with a strong biological family, they can criticise internally but always look strong to those outside. Or parents not letting the kids see the strains in their relationship. Right now, the outside world think we are weak, and they are all having their say on it. I think deep down that's what is getting to me.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Some days you spend your days speculating about whether Moyes should go and it is a bit depressing but at least the names being bandied around are Mourinho and Klopp. Then I feel grumpy because it strikes me as being unrealistic but at least if I suspend disbelief I can imagine a future with United getting back to winning things regularly and holding our heads up high.

But then there are days when there is still speculation about Moyes going but the names being bandied about are Martinez and Allardyce. That is depressing on a whole different level.

Speculating about new managers for United fans is fundamentally bizarre because it's been so long since it was last an issue.

If you look at the managers we had at the club before Fergie than Moyes definitely fits the archetype much better than Mourniho or Klopp. Although that was so long ago (not to mention relatively unsuccessful!) it's probably crazy to even think we should have a certain type.

 

[Adebesi]

I agree, football has changed out of all recognition since we last went through this. There is no United way, there is just SAF's way and then us muddling through in the aftermath of that trying to find a new way.