We're just venting our frustration in here.
Moyes has to go
- Thread starter Orton
- Start date
We're just venting our frustration in here.
Shut the feck up?
I'm not asking you to shut the feck up, I was just answering the question
I think you blokes are ok, you come and have a moan once in a while, but there are some non stop moaners though. We haven't played a game close to a week with no news on any of the players, yet the threads just keep growing at the same pace
If the moaners are moaning, the Moyes defenders are equally tiring, finding faults with good players to support their agenda. There's something wrong with the squad, our team and our manager. Even Stevie Wonder can see that though, the moaners want Moyes to go, the defenders keep finding non existing counter arguments to defend Moyes, it's all a bit nauseating. To be fair, I had right old moan in the Rafael thread too
A lot of people blame Fergie for choosing Moyes which I really don't think is fair. Moyes was actually a really good candidate, he brought a hell of a lot of stability to Everton, cared about the academy and bringing through youth. He was praised at Everton for years. Fergie and a lot of us thought those qualities combined with more money would be a good choice for United. European experience would come with time. At the moment, its looking like he isn't the right guy for the job because although the team has it's faults, he isn't getting enough out of the players we have. We have world class strikers and attacking players and even after signing Mata, they haven't been used well.
Fergie should take some blame for giving Moyes a team with a lot of cracks in and so should Gill for leaving Woodward in such a crucial time in terms of having to buy so many key players.
Personally I will be behind Moyes at all of the games and I will support him like the rest of the team. That doesn't mean i'll be disappointed in the morning if I wake up and see he's been sacked.
I don't things will get worse than they are now and I do think Moyes will improve us with another summer transfer window. I just don't think he will ever be able to take us to the heights than Manchester United deserve.
Fergie should take some blame for giving Moyes a team with a lot of cracks in and so should Gill for leaving Woodward in such a crucial time in terms of having to buy so many key players.
Personally I will be behind Moyes at all of the games and I will support him like the rest of the team. That doesn't mean i'll be disappointed in the morning if I wake up and see he's been sacked.
I don't things will get worse than they are now and I do think Moyes will improve us with another summer transfer window. I just don't think he will ever be able to take us to the heights than Manchester United deserve.
The way I see it now, the United board aren't going to properly assess him until next season. I don't agree with that, but that's just the way it is.
Moyes was never going to get sacked in his first season, no matter where we finished. After SAF's speech and the club coming out with all of this 'United way' rubbish, it was just never going to happen. He's been given the chance to get on with things this season without any real pressure and although it's cost the club, it's not going to kill us. Next season is when he'll be properly judged IMO and if he ends up doing nearly as badly as he has this season, he'll be sacked.
Moyes was never going to get sacked in his first season, no matter where we finished. After SAF's speech and the club coming out with all of this 'United way' rubbish, it was just never going to happen. He's been given the chance to get on with things this season without any real pressure and although it's cost the club, it's not going to kill us. Next season is when he'll be properly judged IMO and if he ends up doing nearly as badly as he has this season, he'll be sacked.
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I cant take one more season of hoofing and crossing, while he freezes out more talented players.
Even though Fergie made his speech, I expect he thought a difficult season would involve struggling to compete for the title and maybe only sneaking into the top 4. While he continues to stand by Moyes, I doubt even he realised how poorly the side would do this season.
Next season may be when the board will be willing to judge him. Doesn't make it right.
If you want things to change, the worst thing people can do is think that their voice doesn't matter or that there is no point in voicing their disagreement. As long as the complaints are legit (I don't think people are crying about what color car he drives or anything like that), then they should be voiced loud and often. That's how a groundswell of opinion eventually grows.
Ian Ladyman's piece in the Mail today had a little excerpt saying "privately, Moyes has bemoaned the fact that the core of the United squad is just not as good as he thought it was when he arrived from Everton to replace Sir Alex Ferguson."
What perhaps irritates me more than our results, horrendous style of football and this man's incessant grin, is that I genuinely do get the impression he sits there watching these players, with the utmost belief that he is completely correct in what he is doing, absolving himself of all the blame.
I criticise Moyes enough and I've tried to stay away lately, but this article has annoyed me. It's written as if Moyes is genuinely frustrated that one of the best players in the world just isn't performing like he wants him to, and that it is all, infact, the fault of Van Persie's. You can question the likes of Nani, Kagawa, Hernandez, Young et al. but there isn't any questioning Van Persie's ability to perform. He really is bona fide elite quality.
What perhaps irritates me more than our results, horrendous style of football and this man's incessant grin, is that I genuinely do get the impression he sits there watching these players, with the utmost belief that he is completely correct in what he is doing, absolving himself of all the blame.
I criticise Moyes enough and I've tried to stay away lately, but this article has annoyed me. It's written as if Moyes is genuinely frustrated that one of the best players in the world just isn't performing like he wants him to, and that it is all, infact, the fault of Van Persie's. You can question the likes of Nani, Kagawa, Hernandez, Young et al. but there isn't any questioning Van Persie's ability to perform. He really is bona fide elite quality.
He's out again tonight, watching France v Holland
Your summary there pretty much sums up how most matchgoing fans that I know feel, and how I feel myself.
I guess where we differ is in that last paragraph. If he's the wrong man for the job (and he certainly hasn't shown that he's the right one) then his hand on the controls as we do probably the biggest, most expensive squad change we have ever attempted could leave things worse - in the sense that the next manager will have less freedom to spend, and fewer ways to sell off highly paid misfits.
We're talking about one of the biggest and most expensive squad changes ever seen at a top club. It's comparable with Real Madrid in the summer of 2009, when they bought 7 players and sold/gave away more, with a net spend of £150m. It took them more than two seasons (with very good managers) and another £100m before they recovered from it and started to really look like a team again, and even then they fell short of the best.
Of course it doesn't, but it's the only explanation I've got at this stage.
Who knows what SAF thought. For all we know, he could have seen this coming. There's probably a few things that genuinely surprised him, such as the sacking of his backroom staff and the disaster that was Moyes' first transfer window at United. However, he might well of believed that his stepping down would have a much bigger impact that some fans thought and are still thinking. Add the fact that Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra and Carrick have been the core of this United side for so long time, including last season, but none of them have performed to their standard on a consistent basis this season and there were always going to be problems. Then you have younger players like of Rafael, RVP, Cleverly and Hernandez also performing to a significantly lower standard or have gotten injured constantly.
It's easy to blame it all on Moyes and I have done so at times of frustration this season, we all probably have. If you step back though, there's also a lot issues that Moyes simply can't be blamed for.
We should just make him scout and get a better manager.
To be fair the core of the United squad probably thought they were getting Mourinho and that Moyes is just not as good as they hoped he was when he arrived from Everton to replace Sir Alex Ferguson.
Can you link to the piece?
I think that would work. I can see him some kind of scouting database admin role as well.
Just as long as he's not responsible for other people's performances.
In all honesty, and this may sound bad - if I was a multiple title winning/CL winning footballer who had just the won the title under Sir Alex Ferguson, and I aspired to play better football and keep winning trophies through my career, and then he retired and was replaced the following season by David Moyes or a manager of similar standing (Pardew, for example), I'd give him one season, at most to show what he could do, and if there were few positives I'd be fecking out of there.
courtesy @DeclanGallen/ boards.ie
I am loath to back him individually but as part of the team (only), there is no alternative. This mirrors the views of most supporters I know. I want him sacked, desperately, but when the team's out there it is impossible to want anything other than a win. I cannot comprehend why anyone would not be cheering United on to win no matter how much they want Moyes sacked. I will be intensely wound up with every shit fecking Moyes song from the look-at-me Tier 2 brigade though.
He is going to sell Hernandez, RvP, Nani, Rafael and offer Young, Valencia and Cleverly new contracts.
The silk curtains to the Moyes Era can be raised. Let us welcome misery and despair (and hope we can offload some gloryhunters who post bad things about United on an internet forum).
The silk curtains to the Moyes Era can be raised. Let us welcome misery and despair (and hope we can offload some gloryhunters who post bad things about United on an internet forum).
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Yep, of the dyb dyb dyb dob dob dob variety.
I came across an article written when he had just taken over at Everton which stated that one his strengths was his implacable belief in his own opinions. To me that is a weakness!
It does explain his press conferences...
I think you blokes are ok, you come and have a moan once in a while, but there are some non stop moaners though. We haven't played a game close to a week with no news on any of the players, yet the threads just keep growing at the same pace
To be fair, I had right old moan in the Rafael thread too
Because the dross is non stop every single fecking weeks.. Even if we win it's a flukey win unbecoming of manchester united.
It's not like we're nitpicking, everything has been atrocious we have to scrap for positives in rooney signing a new contract (300k per week for shrek), and januzaj playing.
We try to find things to credit him, but so far there's no straw to clutch
What a difference a year makes... United go from expecting to thump lower half opposition (matchday threads are usually predicting 3-0+ scorelines) to "maybe we'll edge it".
I think the reason people are "moaning" so to speak is that there is virtually zero positives out of this season other than Januzaj's emergence. I wouldn't even classify Rooney's contract as that huge of a positive, given how much we've paid to keep him, and Moyes still has no idea of how to integrate him and RVP into the team together (and he hasn't got the cojones to go the SAF way of dropping him deep or using him out of his preferred role).
Wow, a few months, how awesome of you.
There's a difference between faith and blind faith... He's done so badly it's hard to back him.
He hasnt done great but he also has walked in to a perfect storm of problems at the club, most of which he didnt create. There is quite a difference between blind faith an pragmatic understanding. I dont know if he is the right man for the job, I dont know if he can turn things around but the one thing I do know is so many of the arguments against him in here are based largely on emotion and assumption with little based on a thoughful, insightful analysis of the situation and sequence of events.
I don't see how. The only thing he had going for him he managed not to resign or get sacked from his previous club ergo there was a good chance he'd stay here for a while. Longevity was our priority when really it shouldn't have even been in the top 10 most important qualities we were looking for. Everton fans weren't even that fond of him and they certainly weren't impressed with his record with young players - in fact it was one of their major criticisms of him, he was very reluctant to give them a chance.
What we should've been asking for is someone with a history of attractive football, winning trophies, proven competence at a top club, European experience, knowledge of the top end of the European market.
Following our tragic performance on the outskirts of Athens earlier this week – the unravelling of what now looks like an almost hallucinogenic European dream – the tide seems to be well and truly turning against Moyes.
He’s odds on as the next Premier League manager to lose his job, and it’s hard to see how he could possibly turn things round after draining the life from our team in such profound style.
It’s a sign of the scale of his failure at United that the post-mortems are already well underway before he’s even left the club. The overwhelming majority of fans now agree that he’s not the right man for the job, and everyone has an opinion on exactly what he’s done wrong.
Clearly, our transfer strategy has been flawed, the tactics have been out-dated, and the players have simply not been inspired to play with the passion and commitment we need.
But for many fans, myself included, the decision to dismiss Phelan, Meulensteen and Steele, and replace them with Steve Round, Jimmy Lumsden, and Chris Woods looks like the biggest mistake Moyes has made; the moment it all went wrong.
In September, ex-United goalkeeper coach Eric Steele – the man who learned Spanish to help De Gea settle in – revealed how Moyes had ignored Fergie’s advice:
“You had the United perspective – the manager saying, ‘Keep what we’ve got, keep the continuity, work with them and they’ll guide you through. You’re taking on a massive machine here. You’ve gone from Marks and Spencer’s to Harrods.’”
And in January, our legendary former coach Eric Harrison – the man behind the Class of ’92 – made his feelings known:
“In hindsight it does look like a mistake, I don’t want to criticise anyone but I’ve got to be honest because if I’m thinking that why shouldn’t I say it, like most of the Man United supporters.”
“They certainly should have kept the staff that they had, they shouldn’t have brought so many in from Everton.”
I never imagined I could miss Mike Phelan as much as I do right now; that his shiny, stubbly, splendidly spherical head could be the object of such melancholy nostalgia. It’s hardly surprising how bitter he has sounded since he was kicked out of Old Trafford – he knows Moyes got it completely wrong from the start.
Moyes, the trophyless newcomer taking his first tentative steps into a world of winners, inching onto the very biggest stage there is, cast a proven team aside and filled his backroom with his equally wide-eyed buddies.
One of the only things we’ve heard from Steve Round since he took the Assistant Manager position is how unprepared he was for the job: “From the outside you don’t really understand the enormity of the club,” – that was his comically frank assessment shortly after joining the club.
Of the men Moyes appointed, with the exception of Giggs, only Phil Neville truly understood what United is all about. But he’s hardly a United legend, and has no previous coaching experience. Can you really imagine Wayne Rooney or Juan Mata arriving at Carrington each day buoyed by the excitement of working with P Nevs?
As for Steve Round, Jimmy Lumsden and Chris Woods – do they deserve respect from the players? Have they achieved enough to be worthy of the roles they’ve found themselves in? Are they the source of some unbridled technical and tactical genius – the foundation for a new era of footballing brilliance at United?
I’m pretty sure the answer to all of those questions is ‘no’, but let’s take a closer look at Moyes’ band of backroom upstarts, just to make sure I’m not being unfair.
Steve Round
Round joined Derby County as a full-back in 1990, but only ever made 9 senior appearances in 5 years at the club, thanks to a knee injury that eventually saw him retire as a player aged 25.
He spent 6 years as a coach at Derby from 1995 to 2001, and was then appointed as coach by former team-mate Steve McClaren at Middlesborough. He continued in this role until 2007, citing a “difference in philosophy and ideas” with new manager Gareth Southgate as his reason for leaving.
So where did he think he would be a better fit? Sam Allardyce’s Newcastle United, of course! He joined them as first team coach but after a year in the North East, Moyes brought him in as his assistant at Everton. 5 years later, aged 43, he followed his boss to the greatest club in the world.
Rumour has it we paid Everton £1 million to bring Steve Round in, and 7 months later, I still don’t have a clue what he brings to the table.
Many Everton fans made their concerns clear when he was being linked with the manager’s job at Goodison in the summer, with some blaming him for DM’s overly-defensive approach. With the way United have been playing under the new regime, it seems like they were probably right.
Jimmy Lumsden
Glasgow-born Lumsden is the man who replaced Meulensteen as first team coach. He began his senior career as a midfielder at that club we all love, Leeds United, in 1966 – in 4 years at Elland Road, he made 4 appearances for the club.
After his unsuccessful stint at Leeds, Lumsden spent a year at Southend United, before spells with Morton, St Mirren, Cork Hibernians, Morton, Clydebank and, finally, Celtic, where he made a single senior appearance.
Although certainly not much of a goalscorer (12 goals in 176 games), former Cork teammate Dinny Allen casts him in an almost Scholes-esque light:
“He was super to play with. He used to play in midfield and he was kind of small but he was a real players’ player. He was very good at one-touch stuff, if the ball was coming towards him he’d have the next move planned in his head already.”
The main reason Billy McNeil brought him to Celtic in 1978 was to mentor the club’s next generation, and he was credited as a major influence on the development of a number of young players.
Lumsden was promoted to coach at Celtic, before returning to Leeds as assistant manager, then managing Bristol City and Rochdale, and coaching under David Moyes at Preston and Everton.
Now 66 years old, Lumsden seems to have plenty of experience, and it sounds like his footballing philosophy should be a good fit at United. He has also gone on record to say he’s never frightened of challenging Moyes when they don’t see eye to eye, which can only be a good thing. We do love a straight-talking Glaswegian at United, but I just wonder whether his appetite for an argument is the highlight of his CV.
Chris Woods
Chris Woods – our new goalkeeping coach – played for 9 clubs at senior level. After 3 years with no games at Nottingham Forest, he went on to establish himself in a 2 year spell at QPR, before making 216 appearances in 6 years as Norwich number 1. He went on to make 173 appearances for Rangers and 107 for Sheffield Wednesday, and the last couple of years of his career took him all the way from Colorado to Burnley. He also got 43 caps for England between 1985 and 1993, having deputised Peter Shilton during most of that period.
In 1998, he joined Walter Smith’s Everton as a coach, and has also been working as a coach for the US national team since 2011.
There’s certainly nothing to suggest Woods isn’t a perfectly competent coach with solid experience at both club and international level, but is there really any justification for replacing Steele, the man who played such a big part in De Gea’s development at United?
Phil Neville
Neville doesn’t really need any introduction – we all knew him perfectly well as a player. But other than a bit of time spent with England’s under-21s last year, Neville has zero coaching experience, so he’s basically learning his trade at United. Giggs is doing the same, but he’s still playing the odd game too, and, well, he’s Giggs.
Neville has been open about his ambitions to progress into management – he’s sought advice from Mourinho in the past, and was interviewed for the Everton job before Martinez got the nod from Kenwright.
As Neville hasn’t replaced anyone as such, I don’t think there’s any problem with his appointment as a first team coach at United – he has always kept us close to his heart, and hopefully he can grow into a quality coach alongside the likes of Ryan.
Ultimately, I don’t think Moyes needed to replace any of Fergie’s coaching team. If he felt he needed to bring these guys in to make the club his own, surely that just suggests a lack of authority; a weakness of character.
Overhauling the squad should have been the top priority – why meddle with a coaching team that knew our players and our setup inside out? Moyes and his motley crew have definitely revolutionised the way we play, I’ll give ‘em that!
He’s odds on as the next Premier League manager to lose his job, and it’s hard to see how he could possibly turn things round after draining the life from our team in such profound style.
It’s a sign of the scale of his failure at United that the post-mortems are already well underway before he’s even left the club. The overwhelming majority of fans now agree that he’s not the right man for the job, and everyone has an opinion on exactly what he’s done wrong.
Clearly, our transfer strategy has been flawed, the tactics have been out-dated, and the players have simply not been inspired to play with the passion and commitment we need.
But for many fans, myself included, the decision to dismiss Phelan, Meulensteen and Steele, and replace them with Steve Round, Jimmy Lumsden, and Chris Woods looks like the biggest mistake Moyes has made; the moment it all went wrong.
In September, ex-United goalkeeper coach Eric Steele – the man who learned Spanish to help De Gea settle in – revealed how Moyes had ignored Fergie’s advice:
“You had the United perspective – the manager saying, ‘Keep what we’ve got, keep the continuity, work with them and they’ll guide you through. You’re taking on a massive machine here. You’ve gone from Marks and Spencer’s to Harrods.’”
And in January, our legendary former coach Eric Harrison – the man behind the Class of ’92 – made his feelings known:
“In hindsight it does look like a mistake, I don’t want to criticise anyone but I’ve got to be honest because if I’m thinking that why shouldn’t I say it, like most of the Man United supporters.”
“They certainly should have kept the staff that they had, they shouldn’t have brought so many in from Everton.”
I never imagined I could miss Mike Phelan as much as I do right now; that his shiny, stubbly, splendidly spherical head could be the object of such melancholy nostalgia. It’s hardly surprising how bitter he has sounded since he was kicked out of Old Trafford – he knows Moyes got it completely wrong from the start.
Moyes, the trophyless newcomer taking his first tentative steps into a world of winners, inching onto the very biggest stage there is, cast a proven team aside and filled his backroom with his equally wide-eyed buddies.
One of the only things we’ve heard from Steve Round since he took the Assistant Manager position is how unprepared he was for the job: “From the outside you don’t really understand the enormity of the club,” – that was his comically frank assessment shortly after joining the club.
Of the men Moyes appointed, with the exception of Giggs, only Phil Neville truly understood what United is all about. But he’s hardly a United legend, and has no previous coaching experience. Can you really imagine Wayne Rooney or Juan Mata arriving at Carrington each day buoyed by the excitement of working with P Nevs?
As for Steve Round, Jimmy Lumsden and Chris Woods – do they deserve respect from the players? Have they achieved enough to be worthy of the roles they’ve found themselves in? Are they the source of some unbridled technical and tactical genius – the foundation for a new era of footballing brilliance at United?
I’m pretty sure the answer to all of those questions is ‘no’, but let’s take a closer look at Moyes’ band of backroom upstarts, just to make sure I’m not being unfair.
Steve Round
Round joined Derby County as a full-back in 1990, but only ever made 9 senior appearances in 5 years at the club, thanks to a knee injury that eventually saw him retire as a player aged 25.
He spent 6 years as a coach at Derby from 1995 to 2001, and was then appointed as coach by former team-mate Steve McClaren at Middlesborough. He continued in this role until 2007, citing a “difference in philosophy and ideas” with new manager Gareth Southgate as his reason for leaving.
So where did he think he would be a better fit? Sam Allardyce’s Newcastle United, of course! He joined them as first team coach but after a year in the North East, Moyes brought him in as his assistant at Everton. 5 years later, aged 43, he followed his boss to the greatest club in the world.
Rumour has it we paid Everton £1 million to bring Steve Round in, and 7 months later, I still don’t have a clue what he brings to the table.
Many Everton fans made their concerns clear when he was being linked with the manager’s job at Goodison in the summer, with some blaming him for DM’s overly-defensive approach. With the way United have been playing under the new regime, it seems like they were probably right.
Jimmy Lumsden
Glasgow-born Lumsden is the man who replaced Meulensteen as first team coach. He began his senior career as a midfielder at that club we all love, Leeds United, in 1966 – in 4 years at Elland Road, he made 4 appearances for the club.
After his unsuccessful stint at Leeds, Lumsden spent a year at Southend United, before spells with Morton, St Mirren, Cork Hibernians, Morton, Clydebank and, finally, Celtic, where he made a single senior appearance.
Although certainly not much of a goalscorer (12 goals in 176 games), former Cork teammate Dinny Allen casts him in an almost Scholes-esque light:
“He was super to play with. He used to play in midfield and he was kind of small but he was a real players’ player. He was very good at one-touch stuff, if the ball was coming towards him he’d have the next move planned in his head already.”
The main reason Billy McNeil brought him to Celtic in 1978 was to mentor the club’s next generation, and he was credited as a major influence on the development of a number of young players.
Lumsden was promoted to coach at Celtic, before returning to Leeds as assistant manager, then managing Bristol City and Rochdale, and coaching under David Moyes at Preston and Everton.
Now 66 years old, Lumsden seems to have plenty of experience, and it sounds like his footballing philosophy should be a good fit at United. He has also gone on record to say he’s never frightened of challenging Moyes when they don’t see eye to eye, which can only be a good thing. We do love a straight-talking Glaswegian at United, but I just wonder whether his appetite for an argument is the highlight of his CV.
Chris Woods
Chris Woods – our new goalkeeping coach – played for 9 clubs at senior level. After 3 years with no games at Nottingham Forest, he went on to establish himself in a 2 year spell at QPR, before making 216 appearances in 6 years as Norwich number 1. He went on to make 173 appearances for Rangers and 107 for Sheffield Wednesday, and the last couple of years of his career took him all the way from Colorado to Burnley. He also got 43 caps for England between 1985 and 1993, having deputised Peter Shilton during most of that period.
In 1998, he joined Walter Smith’s Everton as a coach, and has also been working as a coach for the US national team since 2011.
There’s certainly nothing to suggest Woods isn’t a perfectly competent coach with solid experience at both club and international level, but is there really any justification for replacing Steele, the man who played such a big part in De Gea’s development at United?
Phil Neville
Neville doesn’t really need any introduction – we all knew him perfectly well as a player. But other than a bit of time spent with England’s under-21s last year, Neville has zero coaching experience, so he’s basically learning his trade at United. Giggs is doing the same, but he’s still playing the odd game too, and, well, he’s Giggs.
Neville has been open about his ambitions to progress into management – he’s sought advice from Mourinho in the past, and was interviewed for the Everton job before Martinez got the nod from Kenwright.
As Neville hasn’t replaced anyone as such, I don’t think there’s any problem with his appointment as a first team coach at United – he has always kept us close to his heart, and hopefully he can grow into a quality coach alongside the likes of Ryan.
Ultimately, I don’t think Moyes needed to replace any of Fergie’s coaching team. If he felt he needed to bring these guys in to make the club his own, surely that just suggests a lack of authority; a weakness of character.
Overhauling the squad should have been the top priority – why meddle with a coaching team that knew our players and our setup inside out? Moyes and his motley crew have definitely revolutionised the way we play, I’ll give ‘em that!
Completely correct. Pure sense.
The problems are seriously overstated. There was the Rooney problem, and then a lack of a midfield, but the funds were there to replace the midfield, he just didn't know who he wanted so went after Fabregas when everybody in the world apart from him and Woodward knew there was no chance he was leaving. He walked into a team that walked the title, but had 1 glaring issue that he failed to address (or properly address, he waited until deadline day then panicked and brought in Fellaini just to get somebody in).
What I will say, is that he's in a unique situation right now. Has any manager ever had such a poor first season, with so many fans against him, and managed to come back from it? He would have been sacked by now at any other club in the world, big or small, so I don't think anyone has ever been in this situation. Personally, I think it's just a matter of time before he gets the boot, but we'll see.
See your impression of things that happened is quite different to mine.
Its weird.. we have to be losing time from other parts of our game and I doubt it's set-pieces or crossing, so you'd expect the technical side.
But then.. when Kagawa came he said that at Dortmund they did far more running and off the ball work compared to United. Even under Fergie, it didn't show though did it?
What do you mean it didn't show? From the looks of it, we do absolutely no off the ball running at united, been that way for 2 years now
I think Kagawa meant more running off the ball in attacking positions and stuff at Dortmund, not so much the running defensive off the ball running(like closing down space and what not) I'd assume moyes does.
What happened in your view then? Was our squad shit right when Fergie left and in need of a huge makeover then? It isn't now IMO, and the addition of 2 midfielders would put us up there with the best squad in the league again. Add in a defender and we've got best starting 11 too. Hardly a squad riddled with problems if 3 players can get you a team up there with any team around individual wise. It's just on the manager to get them to play together.
What do you mean it didn't show? From the looks of it, we do absolutely no off the ball running at united, been that way for 2 years now
I think Kagawa meant more running off the ball in attacking positions and stuff at Dortmund, not so much the running defensive off the ball running(like closing down space and what not) I'd assume moyes does.
I meant, it didn't show that we did more work on the ball sorry.
It definitely showed in terms of pressure yeah.
Is that so? I´m not a supporter of either United or another EPL club. I have sympathies for this club (like many other clubs), but not enough that losses fill me with rage or endless sadness/dissapointment. In short, I have no agenda or emotional connection that would make me see the current situation better or worse than I simply view it as a neutral bystander.
I think that Moyes is a good manager, but simply not cut out to work at top level and I´m certainly not alone with this opinion. Not a single person I know, who has a similar relationship to United, believes that Moyes can turn things around. Not a single one of them. The problems are just so obvious that it is hard to see it any different.
I already wrote two lenghty posts about this whole topic, so I will keep this one shorter:
Yes, your squad has some issues, but it is still easily a CL level squad and saying otherwise is selling the players way too short. Furthermore, Moyes now had two transfer windows and large financial backing to fix the problems. He has failed to do so. You still have no proper back ups for both your fullback positions, which should never happen for a 200+Mil. € squad in terms of wages. You brought in Fellaini, who is at the end of the day just another body for your midfield and can´t be expected to fill the creative void you have there. Juan Mata is a player with outstanding individual skills and will probably win you points because of that but I have a hard time believing that he will archive his top level in your current set up.
Speaking of set up: The approach both in terms of mentality and style can´t be explained by any problem you may have. Your players are capable of playing differently than "passing it on the wings, cross and hope for the best". Several have already proven that at former clubs or national teams. You have a major confidence problem, which comes down to the manager if it is collective as at United. Motivation of the players is just as much part of a managers job as tactics. You also lack movement and structure, which can be fixed by training as proven by several other coaches.
All in all, Moyes tenure at United is one huge underperformance and after eight months there are basically no signs of improvement or progress.
What objective argument speaks in favour of him right now? Please don´t bring up something along the lines of the "United way" or tradition. Just because it worked once before under very different circumstances, does mean that it is a formula for success. Otherwise it would imply that any other top club is doing it the wrong way. This reason is also just as subjective and emotional driven as many things brought up against him.