The three obvious candidates to my mind were Ancelotti, Guardiola and Mourinho. It's quite possible the first two turned United down in favour of Real and Bayern, respectively, while who knows whether we rejected Mourinho or he chose Chelsea. But it is still a big step down from that CL-winning level to Moyes...maybe I am over-complicating and there is a much simpler answer - Fergie was looking out for his "protege" to give him his shot at the big time and the board believed Moyes was a Fergie-type who could keep the club competing against teams with bigger budgets.
Moyes has to go
- Thread starter Orton
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The three obvious candidates to my mind were Ancelotti, Guardiola and Mourinho. It's quite possible the first two turned United down in favour of Real and Bayern, respectively, while who knows whether we rejected Mourinho or he chose Chelsea. But it is still a big step down from that CL-winning level to Moyes...maybe I am over-complicating and there is a much simpler answer - Fergie was looking out for his "protege" to give him his shot at the big time and the board believed Moyes was a Fergie-type who could keep the club competing against teams with bigger budgets.
Are there any people here who still believe Moyes will implement a new style of football this year, despite not trying to this season?
I still struggle to accept the claim that a big part of our problem was replacing two coaches with Moyes's team. He was hands on with training at Everton, he seems to be hands on at United. So what happened at Everton for good or worse - and they did have a clear structure in their football and a solid defence - was his. And whatever has gone wrong at United is also his. I just don't see how keeping a coach from Fergie's days would have changed that. He's not suddenly lost his ability to coach.
Anyhow, so let's say the problem is with the coaching team. Does that mean that we just have to replace them this summer and everything will be fine? Sounds like another excuse to keep Moyes for another year.
Anyhow, so let's say the problem is with the coaching team. Does that mean that we just have to replace them this summer and everything will be fine? Sounds like another excuse to keep Moyes for another year.
I´m far from being his fan and based on what I have seen don´t believe that he is good enough for that job, but there are way better reasons to criticise Moyes than this quote. Infact I don´t see anything wrong with it.
Becoming as uncomfortable as possible to play against, forcing the opponent into a certain way to play and then exploiting that is a completely valid approach towards a game and can be very successful.
What makes the fire he gets for that even more ironic is, that this exact approach is the core idea behind the way of playing by Jürgen Klopp (he made that exact same quote dozens of times), whom a worrying amount of Cafe users have a serious mancrush on.
It is the execution, where Moyes failed at.
Guardiola signed for Bayern in mid January. Fergie only made his decision to retire late December and I think only told Gill and the Glazers around February-March. So if we wanted Pep, it was just too late. Anyhow, like you said, if you want one of those big coaches, you're next choice is not going to be Moyes.
That's the thing, if he hasn't attempted something different with everything going so horrifically wrong right now, why would it change in a couple of months? Can't teach an old dog new tricks, ties in again with Ferguson surrounding himself with modern footballing men.
One bad quote can happen, but Moyes has quite a few. Let's face it, he IS our Hodgson.
Oh he had. I simply disagree that this is a bad quote and I would bet quite a lot that the Cafe would not see it as one if it would come out of Klopp´s mouth.
He did say. Other classics "i dont know what we have to to do win a game"
I didnt realise I had to be so specific - but for clarity, not the most entertaining football in the league, nor the most boring.
Some fans seem keen to jump on the bandwagon and try to make out that Moyes is some sort of Allerdyce or Puils type, one dimensional manager and that his football is boring. At Everton he didnt get labelled with that. They played decent stuff at times with the likes of Arteta, Pienaar and Baines. That was the point I was making I suppose.
I don't think anyone at United, the board, Fergie, Charlon, the bleeding tea lady thought we would be in this position now, out of the cups..out of the hunt for the title...pretty much out of Europe for next season and pretty much being dumped in the CL. Whatever the reasons, something is wrong and maybe its just a combination of everything that has been discussed. It's isn't going to change within a few games. This is going to take some time...more time that most fans it appears (and I said most) are happy to give.
I'm not saying its right or woring, simply suggesting what the board and the owners may have thought when they were faced with Fergie's resignation. I've no idea if that is the reason they chose Moyes.
And its not just managers being sacked, but wanting to move on for more money, or to live in a nicer climate or take up a new challenge. The likes of Pep Guardiola or other young managers with the pick of Europe's clubs may not be overly keen to come and live in Manchester for 10 years when they can be in Madrid, Paris, Milan or even all of those places over the same period.
I recall reading a couple of years, i think it was Gill, who mentioned they had a file locked away in a drawer with the name(s) of the candidates who could potentially replace Fergie....Now we know it was bloody Moyes!!!
Can't see why he would suddenly do that. Not that he'd be capable anyway.
It was reported last June that Gill actually wanted Mourinho or basically a proven, big time manager. I wonder if he just didn't realize how big Fergie's recommendation would be for the Glazers. Heck, it almost seems as though they just rubberstamped Fergie's call.
A sensible process still has the risk of a poor outcome.
I don't blame the process or Ferguson's role. Moyes was a reasonable choice at the time. They had justifiable hopes that he would raise his game and compete with Mourinho et al.
Wind on 10 months and it is not working out like that so far.
All we really know is what we see on the pitch, and it is not good enough. Not the style, not the performances, not the results. It's up to the board to take a hard look at the state of the football side of the club and decide what to do next, and I'm sure they are.
I don't blame the process or Ferguson's role. Moyes was a reasonable choice at the time. They had justifiable hopes that he would raise his game and compete with Mourinho et al.
Wind on 10 months and it is not working out like that so far.
All we really know is what we see on the pitch, and it is not good enough. Not the style, not the performances, not the results. It's up to the board to take a hard look at the state of the football side of the club and decide what to do next, and I'm sure they are.
Moyes was NOT a reasonable choice. He has achieved nothing in terms of winning anything.
He will be relieved to hear that
This is the key point.
A strong argument can be made that Moyes was an accomplished manager of a midtable club with limited resources. But there was nothing -- NOTHING -- on resume that in any way suggested he was ready to manage a club with aspirations of prem and CL trophies every single season.
It was a shocking decision to go with Moyes. Although giving him the benefit of the doubt was the right and honorable thing to do, his behavior as manager from the first day in the big chair betrayed his lack of qualifications for this particular job.
I have no problem with giving a manager time, but Moyes has not implemented any progressive measure in his tenure. Promoting Januzaj, a player many United fans already knew was a prodigious talent, is hardly going to outweigh the negatives.
According to whom?
According to Moyes' resumé, I guess.
Ah, fair enough. I'm sure you've had a look at it.
He didn't need a resume. Fergie just told him he got the job on reason of being, you know, scottish. Still sounds so ridiculous.
I think it's a combined thing. The coaches he brought from Everton know moyes' way of coaching and doing things so they'll coach in te same way, compared to how our previous coaches would coach the way we've done things for the last decade probably. I understand moyes is more hands on but he's got to change his style of coaching and implement more on the ball training, because from everything we've heard, it's more running and physician stuff rather then training the technique of the players.
Do managers even keep a resume? It's not like they are filling out want ads. And even then his background/experience is there for everyone. Unless maybe he managed some massive club without anyone knowing it and only looking at his resume would be the way to know that.
Well I mean, the achievements and style of play of Premier League managers are there to see.
If you really think he was speaking about an actual resume then please exit this thread immediately...
Are you sure of this? What I have heard is that only the pre season is intensely physical. Not come across anything that said the regular training is physical too.
Just from what everyone has said about them doing a lot more running compared to when Sir Alex was here, and what all the players said during his Everton days. It's not exactly a stretch to imagine Moyes wouldn't change his training methods too much, is it? It's well known he likes hard working players more and to keep a rigid shape, along with a high energy game. Obviously we don't exactly play with a lot of energy, but we don't play like anything really these days and that stems from the training ground, so whatever he's doing clearly isn't working.
According to me, or at least anyone with a pair of working eyeballs.
Of course, I didn't mean "resume" in a literal sense. Although I'm sure professional club managers do keep paperwork that records their professional experience and achievements, that's clearly not what I was referring to.
What a normal pair of eyeballs can see is that Moyes had not accomplished enough in his career to justify putting him in this position, that of managing a club with the highest aspirations and reasonable expectations of winning every trophy it competes for.
Not sure if overreaching or not. Dont really have a conclusion on how entertaining they were last season but I've heard entertaining and also still inflicted with negativity and overly direct so I guess it depends who you talk and what you see as entertaining.
I think putting it all on van persie is a bit too much for me. ALthough he was a huge part of title surge last season, it does a disservice to the other players who contributed to our campaign. For this specific context I mean goals because it seems some people forgot Rvp's goal scoring drought. Other players picked up where he left and then he ended the season on a high note.
I agree that Moyes hasn't been able to get the best out of this bunch. The confidence of the team looks shot at the moment and he has to build that up from now till the end of the season, before we go out on a spending spree.
As for the players - A creative/dynamic CM, a new LB, a CB with Vidic leaving and Rio retiring, A new quality winger & a back up RB were always positions that we needed to strengthen, with or without Moyes. Don't understand why is he getting flak for wanting the same.
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He shouldn't. My patience is running thin.
If we strengthen that much we'd have to be favourites for the title. He gets flak because this team should be up there at the top end anyway.
I bet last season people would have named a number of positions where Chelsea needed strengthening, as well arsenal.
I agree. I used to chuckle everytime people mentioned his name as a united boss. It seemed like sort of sick joke about what was going to happen in he near future. I never really could take something that stupid so seriously.
I sure do now
The question is, what makes us think he'll do that? We're not talking about little changes to what he is used to doing, but almost a change of philosophy. Surely, you bring in a coach based on the way he does things, rather than just expect him to totally change just because he's joined you.
Another one of the great mysteries of this appointment.
This is true but managers are also like players. They learn as they go along. Clearly Fergie thinks Moyes will learn - let's not forget that Fergie himself was not the finished article when he came.
Whether we should have picked a manager who needs time to learn, or pick one who is largely ready-made is of course a whole new question lol.
Please don't.