Moyes has to go

Moyes out?

  • Knee jerk/I object to the term knee jerk because I told you he was going to be rubbish in 2003

    Votes: 296 80.4%
  • Head in sand/My name is Baghdad Bob and everything is going to be OK

    Votes: 72 19.6%

  • Total voters
    368
  • Poll closed .
For the prices paid, were these not excellent signings by Moyes?

Arteta - £2m

Pienaar - £2.5m

Jagielka - £4m

Cahill - £1.5m

Coleman - £60k

That's half of what would probably be - in fact, was - a top 6/7 Premiership side assembled for a little over £10m.

People will then say that it's his big money signings which were suspect. To which you might reply that he didn't make many of them:

Fellaini - £15m. Given his age at the time, and how well he generally did for Everton, that wasn't a bad signing.

Yakubu - £11m. Scored 21 goals in the first season at Everton, then got a bad Achilles injury that kept him out for about a year, and didn't seem to be the same player when he returned. But I think his first season form demonstrated that without the injury, he was very much a £10m striker.

Johnson - £8m. Didn't really set the world alight, scoring 20 odd goals in two seasons. But was then sold on for £10.5 (i.e. a profit).

Bilyaletdinov - £9m. Probably the only signing that you can say flopped. But there were strong rumours among Evertonians that Moyes had never really wanted him, and he was a 'gift' from the board, to appease the fans in the wake of the sale of Lescott. Came recommended by Guss Hiddink, but was never cut out for the Premiership, Sold on for about £6.

You then have players like Distin (£5m), Baines (£6m), and Howard (£3.5m) who've all gone to more than justify their fees.

Fact is, Moyes did build a very good Everton side for relative peanuts, and his scouting and judgement of a players ability shouldn't really be in question.
 
Just on that Newcastle quote. It's being made out like he said it before the game.

Didn't he merely say after the game that we tried to make it tough for them.
It's just after game chat, he'd have been disappointed is all.

It's not like before the game, he said, oooh Newcastle at home, we'll do our best to make it hard for them, but we might be out of luck or anything
 
Fact is, Moyes did build a very good Everton side for relative peanuts, and his scouting and judgement of a players ability shouldn't really be in question.
They're not, it's his apparent inability to set up his side in any other fashion than the current monstrosity that is questionable.
 
That's a sackable quote. A moment you just know he will never have the winning mentality needed.

He's been coming out with quotes like that all season, you could probably make a book of them by now.

I think he's actually managed to out Hodgson, Hodgson.
 
The issue I find hard to understand is why the club thought it appropriate to take such a gamble. Taking over from the greatest British manager of all time, after 26 years, was always going to carry the risk of being a bumpy ride, particularly when combined with the fact that Fergie left some holes in the squad. In such circumstances, you would think the logical response would be to minimise the risk. Instead, the club raised the stakes by adding additional risk by the appointment of a manager unproven at this level (very capable premier league manager though he is). Fergie the gambler once again?

Could it be that the Glazers are really that far removed from the football side of things? Since 2005, that side of the "franchise" has run itself with Fergie and Gill. Until now, they haven't really been asked to spend a great deal of money and I'm sure that's the way they like it. Fergie's opinion carries a great deal of weight so why wouldn't they trust it? For businessmen like them, it might have been counter-intuitive to hire a man with no record of success, but they were willing to delegate that decision. Who else, besides Fergie, Gill, and Charlton would they turn to for advice about picking a new manager?
 
Just on that Newcastle quote. It's being made out like he said it before the game.

Didn't he merely say after the game that we tried to make it tough for them.
It's just after game chat, he'd have been disappointed is all.

It's not like before the game, he said, oooh Newcastle at home, we'll do our best to make it hard for them, but we might be out of luck or anything

He said it before the game.

"Four straight wins is a great record to get... but obviously they are coming to Old Trafford and we are going to make it as hard for them as we possibly can," Moyes told a news conference on Friday'
 
Please please please please tell me he actually said that.

If he did, that's a Full Hodgson. You never go Full Hodgson.

:lol::lol:

"Four straight wins is a great record to get... but obviously they are coming to Old Trafford and we are going to make it as hard for them as we possibly can," Moyes told a news conference on Friday.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/12/06/uk-soccer-england-united-idUKBRE9B50L620131206



Play after 55 secs.

Just on that Newcastle quote. It's being made out like he said it before the game.

Didn't he merely say after the game that we tried to make it tough for them.
It's just after game chat, he'd have been disappointed is all.

It's not like before the game, he said, oooh Newcastle at home, we'll do our best to make it hard for them, but we might be out of luck or anything

:nono: Pre game presser twas.
 
Just on that Newcastle quote. It's being made out like he said it before the game.

Didn't he merely say after the game that we tried to make it tough for them.
It's just after game chat, he'd have been disappointed is all.

It's not like before the game, he said, oooh Newcastle at home, we'll do our best to make it hard for them, but we might be out of luck or anything
If I remember correctly he said in the press conference before the match.
 
Please please please please tell me he actually said that.

If he did, that's a Full Hodgson. You never go Full Hodgson.

He did say that...

When asked why United are worse off this year, his reply was "Well I'm not worse off"

On the Dubai trip "It's the first time I've really had a chance to be with the lads"

It's insane
 
Fact is, Moyes did build a very good Everton side for relative peanuts, and his scouting and judgement of a players ability shouldn't really be in question.

Indeed. Hence the argument that this man "needs" up to £200 million to spend on top of what is an already hugely talented squad is utter nonsense, and only believed by the morally-bound justifiers.
 
Does it matter? It was a relatively simple point.

If you have a point to make then make it rather than playing some kind of semantic game show.

It matters if you actually had a point. My point is helping you to clarify yours!

You said "relatively entertaining football", and I asked in what context you meant that.

Relative to other global elite clubs? Relative to other teams in the Top 4? Relative to the other teams trying to get into the Top 4? Relative to who?

There's a dramatic difference in the quality of football throughout even the PL. All I was interested in is what you meant because without it it's unclear what point you were making and what level of football you view as acceptable for our club!
 
The whole thing with Moyes has just been utterly weird for me. We're not exactly the first club in the world or England to take a manager who has done well at a good club and ask him to take a leap into the highest level of football. Forget the Ferguson factor for a moment. Some of the comments Moyes has made even into the season made him sound like someone who barely knows the players, while I've never seen a situation when a manager simply seems unable to pinpoint transfer targets other than ones he knows well because they have played for him or in England, which is what happened for a large part of last summer. I know we haven't had a new manager for ages, but that was just... Yeah, I'll use that word again - weird. Mind boggling, really. And at the end of the day, pretty pathetic.

Last summer was a bit of a mess, but I think we all know why we only targeted specific players in the summer. Everyone knew at the time that he wanted to give chances to all our players and that he didn't want to take any gambles off the bat in his first window. It's a fair enough approach which, in hindsight, hasn't worked out.

Still, that statement isn't entirely true, as we targeted the likes of Herrera, Coentrao and apparently De Rossi. None of which have played in England or for Everton.
 
Looking at what the vast majority of Europe's top clubs do would concern the owners. Most make short term appointments and managers move on every three or so years. That means potentially backing a new manager with a transfer budget and having to sell of expensive players whose faces no longer fit.

Moyes represents a different option, someone who has shown loyalty and patience learning the job and who might have the ability to step up a level.

That's just looking at it the wrong way. Obviously we want some stability, but it doesn't mean we have to limit ourselves so much when looking at the possibie quality of manager we bring. We can still do things differently. In most cases it's the clubs who get rid of the manager, even when they do well. Would we have gotten rid of Mourinho or Ancelotti like Roman did? Del Bosque like Real did? Heynckes like Bayern did? No. So there's no point to the comparison.

Everyone realizes we're not going to have another 26-year manager. But it doesn't mean we can't bring in a top quality one for quite a few years and have to settle for someone totally unproven at these levels. And who so far hasn't shown signs of progress.
 
Last summer was a bit of a mess, but I think we all know why we only targeted specific players in the summer. Everyone knew at the time that he wanted to give chances to all our players and that he didn't want to take any gambles off the bat in his first window. It's a fair enough approach which, in hindsight, hasn't worked out.

Still, that statement isn't entirely true, as we targeted the likes of Herrera, Coentrao and apparently De Rossi. None of which have played in England or for Everton.

Yeah, but we got to all three late in the summer. By then it was too late or whatever other reason for none of the deals actually going through. For most of the summer, it was the Everton/PL targets.

Moyes wanted to give chances to our players, but he also clearly wanted two midfielders and a left back. Struggling to identify targets meant we ended up with just one of the three. And that's Fellaini.
 
Im behind Moyes.

My head is in no sand and a believe he will get things right very soon. It seems that the rotten luck we endured at the begining of the season has manifested into severe lack of confidence for everyone from players to backroom staff.

It seems that Moyes is carrying the whole world on his shoulders and it doesn't help that our own fans are turning on him. He knows that whatever decision he makes will be greeted by moans and groans and will lead to numerous pathetic threads being created on forums.

He was not the fashionable appointment everyone wanted (Moureen, Klopp, Guardiola) but he was THE appointment. Which means that the people who know more about the game than anyone reading and posting on redcafe. The people who know more about the club than Clifford (Executive seats every game since 2008) Jonny (Season ticket holder since when we wasnt very good, who incedently was calling for Fergie's head at one point) and Yeng (Never been to Manchester but has all the shirts bla bla bla)

Its not as if Moyes' name was picked out of a hat. He was selected because in the long term, he is the best man for the job.
 
Looking at what the vast majority of Europe's top clubs do would concern the owners. Most make short term appointments and managers move on every three or so years. That means potentially backing a new manager with a transfer budget and having to sell of expensive players whose faces no longer fit.

Moyes represents a different option, someone who has shown loyalty and patience learning the job and who might have the ability to step up a level.

The club being listed probably influenced this. Investors like certainty, and continuous turnover of staff can cost a fortune - unlike in other businesses.

Possibly that was the reason, although with hindsight we have a huge amount of uncertainty now, almost certainly more than had we hired a more established name.

As for Moriarty's point, I imagine the Glazers did largely delegate the decision given they had not had any reason to question Fergie's judgement before. Maybe Gill would have sought to influence the appointment process more had he not been stepping down - his previously stated criteria for Fergie's successor seemed largely to be ignored.

The other possibility is that all the main choices turned United down so they went for a respectable available candidate to avoid embarrassment. In such circumstances, the club would of course seek to maintain the position that Moyes had always been first choice.
 
Im behind Moyes.

My head is in no sand and a believe he will get things right very soon. It seems that the rotten luck we endured at the begining of the season has manifested into severe lack of confidence for everyone from players to backroom staff.

It seems that Moyes is carrying the whole world on his shoulders and it doesn't help that our own fans are turning on him. He knows that whatever decision he makes will be greeted by moans and groans and will lead to numerous pathetic threads being created on forums.

He was not the fashionable appointment everyone wanted (Moureen, Klopp, Guardiola) but he was THE appointment. Which means that the people who know more about the game than anyone reading and posting on redcafe. The people who know more about the club than Clifford (Executive seats every game since 2008) Jonny (Season ticket holder since when we wasnt very good, who incedently was calling for Fergie's head at one point) and Yeng (Never been to Manchester but has all the shirts bla bla bla)

Its not as if Moyes' name was picked out of a hat. He was selected because in the long term, he is the best man for the job.
You've absolutely noway of knowing that.
 
It seems that Moyes is carrying the whole world on his shoulders and it doesn't help that our own fans are turning on him. He knows that whatever decision he makes will be greeted by moans and groans and will lead to numerous pathetic threads being created on forums.

Well, all I can tell him is - welcome to big time club football. Deal with it.

Its not as if Moyes' name was picked out of a hat. He was selected because in the long term, he is the best man for the job.

No, he was selected because he was considered the best man for the job by one or two men who are football people, whose views were accepted by a bunch of people who don't know much about football. In other words, some people think he's the best man for the job. Which is quite different from actually being the best man for the job. Maybe he is. So far, he's about as far away as possible.
 
I just don't get the long term = guaranteed success analogy at all. It's like merely granting him time will solve all of the flaws. Am I stupid ? :confused:
 
Im behind Moyes.

My head is in no sand and a believe he will get things right very soon. It seems that the rotten luck we endured at the begining of the season has manifested into severe lack of confidence for everyone from players to backroom staff.

It seems that Moyes is carrying the whole world on his shoulders and it doesn't help that our own fans are turning on him. He knows that whatever decision he makes will be greeted by moans and groans and will lead to numerous pathetic threads being created on forums.

He was not the fashionable appointment everyone wanted (Moureen, Klopp, Guardiola) but he was THE appointment. Which means that the people who know more about the game than anyone reading and posting on redcafe. The people who know more about the club than Clifford (Executive seats every game since 2008) Jonny (Season ticket holder since when we wasnt very good, who incedently was calling for Fergie's head at one point) and Yeng (Never been to Manchester but has all the shirts bla bla bla)

Its not as if Moyes' name was picked out of a hat. He was selected because in the long term, he is the best man for the job.

a) What rotten luck?

b) That was a simple belief. There's plenty to suggest that it simply isn't true.
 
I just don't get the long term = guaranteed success analogy at all. It's like merely granting him time will solve all of the flaws. Am I stupid ? :confused:

Fergie did it, so it's true...

I don't understand why some people refuse to accept that sometimes you can suss a manager out after a year.
 
Im behind Moyes.

My head is in no sand and a believe he will get things right very soon. It seems that the rotten luck we endured at the begining of the season has manifested into severe lack of confidence for everyone from players to backroom staff.

It seems that Moyes is carrying the whole world on his shoulders and it doesn't help that our own fans are turning on him. He knows that whatever decision he makes will be greeted by moans and groans and will lead to numerous pathetic threads being created on forums.

He was not the fashionable appointment everyone wanted (Moureen, Klopp, Guardiola) but he was THE appointment. Which means that the people who know more about the game than anyone reading and posting on redcafe. The people who know more about the club than Clifford (Executive seats every game since 2008) Jonny (Season ticket holder since when we wasnt very good, who incedently was calling for Fergie's head at one point) and Yeng (Never been to Manchester but has all the shirts bla bla bla)

Its not as if Moyes' name was picked out of a hat. He was selected because in the long term, he is the best man for the job.

We've had some bad luck, but that doesn't excuse the terrible performances and awful play we've had. 80+ crosses with only two goals at home to Fulham isn't bad luck or a lack of confidence, it's just terrible football. Nor is signing Fellaini for £27m when he's not at all what we needed bad luck. It's just a bad transfer.

You talk about how Moyes is bound to turn it around, but then go on to say that he's carrying the world on the shoulders and that the fans are turning against him. Surely that's more evidence that it's just not working out for him, and isn't going to? There's a reason this is happening, you know.

We've been over the appointment bit before. Him being appointed by experienced men who know about the game doesn't guarantee anything. Fergie made some poor signing, so it's always possible he can make a poor managerial appointment. Not to mention this could apply to any club out there in the top level. With the amount of sackings in the league, it's clear plenty of them don't know what they're doing with managerial appointments. What makes us guaranteed to be different from them? It's arrogance to assume we can't fall into the same trap other clubs do. We're not above them or better than them.

What I don't like though is this assumption that anyone criticising Moyes and wanting him to go is either clueless or a gloryhunter and not a true fan when it's not true at all. It's just patronising and insulting when some of Moyes critics are coming up with the best arguments here.
 
Im behind Moyes.

My head is in no sand and a believe he will get things right very soon. It seems that the rotten luck we endured at the begining of the season has manifested into severe lack of confidence for everyone from players to backroom staff.

It seems that Moyes is carrying the whole world on his shoulders and it doesn't help that our own fans are turning on him. He knows that whatever decision he makes will be greeted by moans and groans and will lead to numerous pathetic threads being created on forums.

He was not the fashionable appointment everyone wanted (Moureen, Klopp, Guardiola) but he was THE appointment. Which means that the people who know more about the game than anyone reading and posting on redcafe. The people who know more about the club than Clifford (Executive seats every game since 2008) Jonny (Season ticket holder since when we wasnt very good, who incedently was calling for Fergie's head at one point) and Yeng (Never been to Manchester but has all the shirts bla bla bla)

Its not as if Moyes' name was picked out of a hat. He was selected because in the long term, he is the best man for the job.

Well said. I think he'll turn it round too and I think it is within the clubs best interests that he does, which is as good a reason as any to continue to back him.

Regarding supporters and their opinions, they're pretty worthless either way in situations like these. Constant contradictions and often proven wrong. I mean, I remember a time not too long ago when the general consensus (probably everybody, infact) were saying that the Glazers should never make football decisions and that they hope Fergie is allowed to have a say when he retires. Months down the line and we've gone full circle. It's completely laughable.
 
Fergie did it, so it's true...

I don't understand why some people refuse to accept that sometimes you can suss a manager out after a year.

That's what baffles me to no end. There is absolutely no precedent at all, not even Fergie in the history of club football when a manager has taken over the reigning champions, dragged them down to 7th and turned it around in later years. Fergie didn't have to face those kind of odds. The argument holds zero credibility. Yet Fergie's name inevitably crops up when he was the sole example among thousands of other managerial duds in football for turning it around but he was an exception to the rule somewhat. It was a one off and nigh impossible to be repeated again. It's like buying a ticket with 1:100000 odds and betting your life savings on it. All this just so we can gain the moral high ground over Real and Chelsea. But is it worth risking the short/ medium term future of the club ? Give me a break.
 
Well said. I think he'll turn it round too and I think it is within the clubs best interests that he does, which is as good a reason as any to continue to back him.

Regarding supporters and their opinions, they're pretty worthless either way in situations like these. Constant contradictions and often proven wrong. I mean, I remember a time not too long ago when the general consensus (probably everybody, infact) were saying that the Glazers should never make football decisions and that they hope Fergie is allowed to have a say when he retires. Months down the line and we've gone full circle. It's completely laughable.
You are generalizing pocco and I don't think that Glazers not making football choices does neccesarily mean that Fergie had to chose the next manager. Many people (including me) wanted a full retirement of Fergie (when he decides to retire from the manager position) and I think that they still think the same. Basically everyone wanted Glazers to not make footballing decisions (which I think is right because I doubt that they know too much for football, probably the matches they have watched can be counted in one hand) but that doesn't mean that it was either them or Fergie making the decision. It should have been (IMO) a lenghty process of interviews, helped also by other actors and see how things go.
 
Its a sombering thought that the club picked David Moyes...ahead of Pep Guardiola, Jose Mourinho, and Carlo Ancelotti.

Sombering, and absolutely terrifying.
Pep wasn't available

Something tells me that he may well have been Fergies first choice. They had a meeting in NYC at Xmas 2012

I'm still pleased we didn't go for Jose. I don't like the man.
 
Well said. I think he'll turn it round too and I think it is within the clubs best interests that he does, which is as good a reason as any to continue to back him.

Regarding supporters and their opinions, they're pretty worthless either way in situations like these. Constant contradictions and often proven wrong. I mean, I remember a time not too long ago when the general consensus (probably everybody, infact) were saying that the Glazers should never make football decisions and that they hope Fergie is allowed to have a say when he retires. Months down the line and we've gone full circle. It's completely laughable.

It's also within the clubs best interests to ensure that they have the right man for the job and someone who's capable of getting us back into the top 4. If it's clear that Moyes isn't good enough for the job, I really don't see why he should be given more time and how it's in the clubs interests at all either.

I did want Fergie to have some sort of input, but I didn't want it to solely be his decision, and many did know there was the possibility of a post-Busby situation developing. Many trusted Fergie to make the right decision though, and I think we've been surprised by how off the mark it's looking like he's been unfortunately.
 
Following our tragic performance on the outskirts of Athens earlier this week – the unravelling of what now looks like an almost hallucinogenic European dream – the tide seems to be well and truly turning against Moyes.

He’s odds on as the next Premier League manager to lose his job, and it’s hard to see how he could possibly turn things round after draining the life from our team in such profound style.

It’s a sign of the scale of his failure at United that the post-mortems are already well underway before he’s even left the club. The overwhelming majority of fans now agree that he’s not the right man for the job, and everyone has an opinion on exactly what he’s done wrong.

Clearly, our transfer strategy has been flawed, the tactics have been out-dated, and the players have simply not been inspired to play with the passion and commitment we need.

But for many fans, myself included, the decision to dismiss Phelan, Meulensteen and Steele, and replace them with Steve Round, Jimmy Lumsden, and Chris Woods looks like the biggest mistake Moyes has made; the moment it all went wrong.

In September, ex-United goalkeeper coach Eric Steele – the man who learned Spanish to help De Gea settle in – revealed how Moyes had ignored Fergie’s advice:

“You had the United perspective – the manager saying, ‘Keep what we’ve got, keep the continuity, work with them and they’ll guide you through. You’re taking on a massive machine here. You’ve gone from Marks and Spencer’s to Harrods.’”

And in January, our legendary former coach Eric Harrison – the man behind the Class of ’92 – made his feelings known:

“In hindsight it does look like a mistake, I don’t want to criticise anyone but I’ve got to be honest because if I’m thinking that why shouldn’t I say it, like most of the Man United supporters.”

“They certainly should have kept the staff that they had, they shouldn’t have brought so many in from Everton.”

I never imagined I could miss Mike Phelan as much as I do right now; that his shiny, stubbly, splendidly spherical head could be the object of such melancholy nostalgia. It’s hardly surprising how bitter he has sounded since he was kicked out of Old Trafford – he knows Moyes got it completely wrong from the start.

Moyes, the trophyless newcomer taking his first tentative steps into a world of winners, inching onto the very biggest stage there is, cast a proven team aside and filled his backroom with his equally wide-eyed buddies.

One of the only things we’ve heard from Steve Round since he took the Assistant Manager position is how unprepared he was for the job: “From the outside you don’t really understand the enormity of the club,” – that was his comically frank assessment shortly after joining the club.

Of the men Moyes appointed, with the exception of Giggs, only Phil Neville truly understood what United is all about. But he’s hardly a United legend, and has no previous coaching experience. Can you really imagine Wayne Rooney or Juan Mata arriving at Carrington each day buoyed by the excitement of working with P Nevs?

As for Steve Round, Jimmy Lumsden and Chris Woods – do they deserve respect from the players? Have they achieved enough to be worthy of the roles they’ve found themselves in? Are they the source of some unbridled technical and tactical genius – the foundation for a new era of footballing brilliance at United?

I’m pretty sure the answer to all of those questions is ‘no’, but let’s take a closer look at Moyes’ band of backroom upstarts, just to make sure I’m not being unfair.

Steve Round

Round joined Derby County as a full-back in 1990, but only ever made 9 senior appearances in 5 years at the club, thanks to a knee injury that eventually saw him retire as a player aged 25.

He spent 6 years as a coach at Derby from 1995 to 2001, and was then appointed as coach by former team-mate Steve McClaren at Middlesborough. He continued in this role until 2007, citing a “difference in philosophy and ideas” with new manager Gareth Southgate as his reason for leaving.

So where did he think he would be a better fit? Sam Allardyce’s Newcastle United, of course! He joined them as first team coach but after a year in the North East, Moyes brought him in as his assistant at Everton. 5 years later, aged 43, he followed his boss to the greatest club in the world.

Rumour has it we paid Everton £1 million to bring Steve Round in, and 7 months later, I still don’t have a clue what he brings to the table.

Many Everton fans made their concerns clear when he was being linked with the manager’s job at Goodison in the summer, with some blaming him for DM’s overly-defensive approach. With the way United have been playing under the new regime, it seems like they were probably right.

Jimmy Lumsden

Glasgow-born Lumsden is the man who replaced Meulensteen as first team coach. He began his senior career as a midfielder at that club we all love, Leeds United, in 1966 – in 4 years at Elland Road, he made 4 appearances for the club.

After his unsuccessful stint at Leeds, Lumsden spent a year at Southend United, before spells with Morton, St Mirren, Cork Hibernians, Morton, Clydebank and, finally, Celtic, where he made a single senior appearance.

Although certainly not much of a goalscorer (12 goals in 176 games), former Cork teammate Dinny Allen casts him in an almost Scholes-esque light:

“He was super to play with. He used to play in midfield and he was kind of small but he was a real players’ player. He was very good at one-touch stuff, if the ball was coming towards him he’d have the next move planned in his head already.”

The main reason Billy McNeil brought him to Celtic in 1978 was to mentor the club’s next generation, and he was credited as a major influence on the development of a number of young players.

Lumsden was promoted to coach at Celtic, before returning to Leeds as assistant manager, then managing Bristol City and Rochdale, and coaching under David Moyes at Preston and Everton.

Now 66 years old, Lumsden seems to have plenty of experience, and it sounds like his footballing philosophy should be a good fit at United. He has also gone on record to say he’s never frightened of challenging Moyes when they don’t see eye to eye, which can only be a good thing. We do love a straight-talking Glaswegian at United, but I just wonder whether his appetite for an argument is the highlight of his CV.

Chris Woods

Chris Woods – our new goalkeeping coach – played for 9 clubs at senior level. After 3 years with no games at Nottingham Forest, he went on to establish himself in a 2 year spell at QPR, before making 216 appearances in 6 years as Norwich number 1. He went on to make 173 appearances for Rangers and 107 for Sheffield Wednesday, and the last couple of years of his career took him all the way from Colorado to Burnley. He also got 43 caps for England between 1985 and 1993, having deputised Peter Shilton during most of that period.

In 1998, he joined Walter Smith’s Everton as a coach, and has also been working as a coach for the US national team since 2011.

There’s certainly nothing to suggest Woods isn’t a perfectly competent coach with solid experience at both club and international level, but is there really any justification for replacing Steele, the man who played such a big part in De Gea’s development at United?

Phil Neville

Neville doesn’t really need any introduction – we all knew him perfectly well as a player. But other than a bit of time spent with England’s under-21s last year, Neville has zero coaching experience, so he’s basically learning his trade at United. Giggs is doing the same, but he’s still playing the odd game too, and, well, he’s Giggs.

Neville has been open about his ambitions to progress into management – he’s sought advice from Mourinho in the past, and was interviewed for the Everton job before Martinez got the nod from Kenwright.

As Neville hasn’t replaced anyone as such, I don’t think there’s any problem with his appointment as a first team coach at United – he has always kept us close to his heart, and hopefully he can grow into a quality coach alongside the likes of Ryan.

Ultimately, I don’t think Moyes needed to replace any of Fergie’s coaching team. If he felt he needed to bring these guys in to make the club his own, surely that just suggests a lack of authority; a weakness of character.

Overhauling the squad should have been the top priority – why meddle with a coaching team that knew our players and our setup inside out? Moyes and his motley crew have definitely revolutionised the way we play, I’ll give ‘em that!
 
Possibly that was the reason, although with hindsight we have a huge amount of uncertainty now, almost certainly more than had we hired a more established name.

As for Moriarty's point, I imagine the Glazers did largely delegate the decision given they had not had any reason to question Fergie's judgement before. Maybe Gill would have sought to influence the appointment process more had he not been stepping down - his previously stated criteria for Fergie's successor seemed largely to be ignored.

The other possibility is that all the main choices turned United down so they went for a respectable available candidate to avoid embarrassment. In such circumstances, the club would of course seek to maintain the position that Moyes had always been first choice.

What are the odds of that happening? Long, I suspect.
 
We've had some bad luck, but that doesn't excuse the terrible performances and awful play we've had. 80+ crosses with only two goals at home to Fulham isn't bad luck or a lack of confidence, it's just terrible football. Nor is signing Fellaini for £27m when he's not at all what we needed bad luck. It's just a bad transfer.

You talk about how Moyes is bound to turn it around, but then go on to say that he's carrying the world on the shoulders and that the fans are turning against him. Surely that's more evidence that it's just not working out for him, and isn't going to? There's a reason this is happening, you know.

We've been over the appointment bit before. Him being appointed by experienced men who know about the game doesn't guarantee anything. Fergie made some poor signing, so it's always possible he can make a poor managerial appointment. Not to mention this could apply to any club out there in the top level. With the amount of sackings in the league, it's clear plenty of them don't know what they're doing with managerial appointments. What makes us guaranteed to be different from them? It's arrogance to assume we can't fall into the same trap other clubs do. We're not above them or better than them.

What I don't like though is this assumption that anyone criticising Moyes and wanting him to go is either clueless or a gloryhunter and not a true fan when it's not true at all. It's just patronising and insulting when some of Moyes critics are coming up with the best arguments here.

I hope that this isnt in response to my post as the last thing i would want to do is insult anyone, i respect everyones right for their opinion and obviously with the current state of affairs it would be foolish of me to believe that everyone is happy with Moyes at the helm. If anyone was insulted (i don't believe i insinuated anyone was a gloryhunter' then please don't read out of context.

I think that the fact he hasnt been sacked yet AND that there are no signs that a sacking is on the agenda tells me that although those that run the club will be dissatisfied with our current performance, they understand the awkward situation of having our first managerial change in near on 30 years added to the fact that the spine of our team is either old and past it (Rio, Vida, maybe Carrick) or that potential replacements have not developed enough in their careers ( Jones, Smalling, Cleverley).

Add on the terrible luck with injuries to key men at key points of the season (Rooney, RVP, Carrick, Fellaini, Jones, Rafael, Nani).

I think when you take all the above into consideration then its wrong to assume that Moyes isn't good enough to be in control as he is yet to have a fair crack. Anything that he does for the rest of this season will be to little to late to convince anyone who currently doubts, but i would urge people to show some faith as I amongst a few others believe that next season will be such a contrast to this season. For sure.
 
Add on the terrible luck with injuries to key men at key points of the season (Rooney, RVP, Carrick, Fellaini, Jones, Rafael, Nani).
.

We've had terrible 'luck' with injuries for years now, Carrick and Fletcher at the back vs Fulham anyone?, and yet we've never slipped to 7th. Blaming injuries is a cop out imo.
 
We've failed to develop a game plan in over eight months.
This is my main reason why I find it so hard to have faith in the man. We've yet to see any kind of tangible game plan, that isn't a poor imitation of Fergie's Zombie football(sorry for the expression).
We've tried a slightly different approach from time to time, but there's never been anything substantial. He's not known to be an attacking style manager, and nothing will change that.
 
Add on the terrible luck with injuries to key men at key points of the season (Rooney, RVP, Carrick, Fellaini, Jones, Rafael, Nani).

Give it up with the injuries crap will you. We had all our players against the crappiest team ever Olybiakos which just so happened to play us without their three best players and they humiliated us, Moyes is fecking useless. Stop finding excuses for the inexcusable.
 
We've failed to develop a game plan in over eight months.

Yep, if there was any sign of a plan, or end goal, then I think we'd all be more willing to give the man time to impliment his ideas. But there isn't, its just a far inferior version of Fergie's team from the last few years (which were hardly eye catching). He's not doing anything that merits giving him time, or that shows that he has the capability to change things.
 
We've had terrible 'luck' with injuries for years now, Carrick and Fletcher at the back vs Fulham anyone?, and yet we've never slipped to 7th. Blaming injuries is a cop out imo.
It's just an excuse, there will be plenty more to come.