Yep, I think it was around 80% keep him and then in the next poll which has theree alternatives (sack, keep or decide on summer) still only a small minority voted for sack (although together with decide in summer was more than keep him).
Moyes has to go
- Thread starter Orton
- Start date
Sure but how often have we had a squad full of players who were United class?
And what exactly has he done to be given more time? It's a question that's gone unanswered on here time and time again. This season has been a disaster, no one would have imagined it being this bad.
I've been looking hard for any glimmer of hope, I don't want to see Moyes sacked, he seems like a nice fella and he's obviously trying very hard to succeed here, however he seems so out of his depth I'm starting to feel sorry for him, he's manager of a Manchester United and I'm feeling sorry for him.
It would be best for both parties if he quit, never going to happen though.
What does he have to do?
It was evident from the fact that he was given such a long contract that he would be given time to get to grips with what he had to so. A number of last years key players contracts had beenn allowed to run down, presumably so the new manager could asses what he wanted to do. he was also advised he had substantial funds to bring in a number of players.
Moyes has not achieved what he should have with this squad - and I'm sure that he would be the first to admit it. What is a fact is that he has had a lot to deal with this year - huge pressure and a squad which contains a number of regular players who the club seem to deem surplus to requirements and players who clearly arent up to the task. In my opinion any manager without experience at the very top level would take time to adjust, so I think he deserves that opportnity.
Some fans need to reflect on the success that we've had and be glad for it. This shows why its not easy to get to and stay at the top.
Last years title win papered over the cracks. Where we are now has been building for years - and a large part of it is down to losing very good players and not repalcing them with players of a similar standard, whilst other teams went out and aquired quality to close the gap. My view, you cant stay still in football because youre actucally going backwards.
What people want here is a Messiah who's going to come in and make it all alright. To do that they'll need to do what Moyes needs to do and bring in a few quality players in anyt event.
Any manager may well need a few signings if we want to get back to that level currently occupied by the likes of Bayern and Real. It's certainly not happening with this squad. However, this squad should still be doing so much more. If Moyes had done his homework better, we may well have already had a vastly different team. It hasn't happened and I think we should consider this year a lucky escape that allows us to get another manager without, hopefully, too much damage being done.
Above everything, I saw Fergie's retirement as sad but also an opportunity. Our football needs to evolve and Fergie just wasn't going to do that. He was stuck a little behind the times. But nothing Moyes has shown hints that he's the man to move us on to a different brand of football. Does he even have the courage to do that?
Above everything, I saw Fergie's retirement as sad but also an opportunity. Our football needs to evolve and Fergie just wasn't going to do that. He was stuck a little behind the times. But nothing Moyes has shown hints that he's the man to move us on to a different brand of football. Does he even have the courage to do that?
....
It’s not a trick question, nor am I trying to be pedantic, it just I can’t think of anything. Yes there is the Rooney contract, Januzaj and Mata, but on the pitch we are showing absolutely nothing, even with those players. In fact even with one of the best attacks in the Premier League, if not Europe, we are still looking weak in that area, we have forgotten how to defend and our wingers cant cross. Our players lack confidence and our style of play is so predictable and easy to play against. We currently sit 7th in the league out of the FA cup and most likely out of Europe, not only this year but next as well at the very least.
Our team lacks direction, lack drive and I feel we are currently leaderless. I fear he has lost the dressing room and it’s hard to come back from that. At the start of the season the minimum goals amongst the fans was 4th place, has that changed, why has that changed? Fergie himself said he left the club in a great place so what’s went terribly wrong?
You say Moyes would be the first to admit that it’s been a bad season, publicly yes, privately though I fear he is blaming everybody but himself.
I don’t expect anyone to have the answer as I don’t think there is one, but again, what has he done this season that makes you feel he deserves another season?
I’d love to fully back Moyes again, I just cant.
You still haven’t answered the question. What has he done this season that means he should be given more time?
It’s not a trick question, nor am I trying to be pedantic, it just I can’t think of anything. Yes there is the Rooney contract, Januzaj and Mata, but on the pitch we are showing absolutely nothing, even with those players. In fact even with one of the best attacks in the Premier League, if not Europe, we are still looking weak in that area, we have forgotten how to defend and our wingers cant cross. Our players lack confidence and our style of play is so predictable and easy to play against. We currently sit 7th in the league out of the FA cup and most likely out of Europe, not only this year but next as well at the very least.
Our team lacks direction, lack drive and I feel we are currently leaderless. I fear he has lost the dressing room and it’s hard to come back from that. At the start of the season the minimum goals amongst the fans was 4th place, has that changed, why has that changed? Fergie himself said he left the club in a great place so what’s went terribly wrong?
You say Moyes would be the first to admit that it’s been a bad season, publicly yes, privately though I fear he is blaming everybody but himself.
I don’t expect anyone to have the answer as I don’t think there is one, but again, what has he done this season that makes you feel he deserves another season?
I’d love to fully back Moyes again, I just cant.
Honestly I just want to see us play good football again. I felt same way after Fergie retired. It's possible to make things alright even with this current squad but at some point, the right players would need to be brought in. I dont subscribe to the "just buy any quality player out there" view because even though they're quality, if they dont fit the overall system, you could get yourself into quite a headache trying to shoehorn them into the side properly.
I agree about losing good players and not replacing them adequately. I also agree that you cant stay still in football. That's why I was so furious when our only summer signing was Fellaini. I just knew we would pay the price for that while everyone else around us strengthened.
The fact this squad needs some injection of quality is irrelevant to Moyes still being here imo. The question is whether or not when the season ends, if the hierarchy still feel he's the man to steer the club forward.
Who are the football men at the club? Certainly not the Glazers or Woodward, the football men are SAF, Charlton, Gill.
So, say the Glazers go to the football men & say that we're doing no good, should we get rid of the manager, what are they going to say? Give him more time, give him more time!
There is not an 'over' SAF, because over SAF are not footballing men, they don't know.
The only way it's going to change is if things get so bad, i.e losing against Shitty, Scousepool & out of the CL (even losing at home), very bad home crowd reaction etc & the Glazers say they they don't care what SAF says, he's gone.
Or, SAF & Bobby change their minds & see what everyone else is seeing.
Edit: I refuse to accept the possibility of not getting a result against WBA
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@Colin129
While I don't disagree with a lot of what you said, you are assuming that only the "football men" make decision's regarding inner football matters, such as who the manager is, however we know for a fact with some clubs that hasn't always been the case, I hope it is here, but there will come a time unfortunately whereby the Glazers decide what is best..
While I don't disagree with a lot of what you said, you are assuming that only the "football men" make decision's regarding inner football matters, such as who the manager is, however we know for a fact with some clubs that hasn't always been the case, I hope it is here, but there will come a time unfortunately whereby the Glazers decide what is best..
Does Fergie know more than us? Why is he more relaxed (judging by his quotes) than when Moyes started?
Are we ALL just so out of our depth in analysing what is going on?
Are we ALL just so out of our depth in analysing what is going on?
The only United forums I know which are still pro-Moyes (although just) is the Reddit United subforum, although I've noticed a few regulars switch their stance after recent results.
SAF can't know "more" in this sense really as he'd have to predict the future, I assume he's calm as it's not his biggest priority, he isn't manager anymore. I just find it crazy that people want to give him time "because SAF choose him", SAF was a brilliant football manager, and a good man manager amongst other things..
Headhunter Recruitment? Doesn't seem to be his strength..
How can you say that about Fergie no caring about the situation we are in?
This guy has spent 26 years of his life non stop building this club! You can't just let go. He cares deeply about what us going, just as much as you or me, maybe more.
Fergie is not stupid, he knows more about goes on behind the scenes and talks to Moyes nearly after every game. He would know Moyes's vision for the club ( even if it doesn't look like he has one). Fergie has seen plenty of Managers come and go throughout his 26 years at the club and is as seen as the godfather where the managers will go to him for any help ot advice. He knows what makes a Manager successful. He thought Moyes was the best candidate and made his decision based upon Moyes's qualities rather than what he has won.
Fergie doesn't want to be wrong. His ego won't allow it. So if Moyes was rightfully sacked today, it would look bad on Fergie.
The reason I believe he deserves more time is because he hasnt had enough time to:
a) realise what this job is all about and learn to deal with the intense scrutiny; and
b) bring in the players he needs to make the squad his own, and replace a good number of those who are here already.
As I said, in my opinion you dont bring in somebody with a significant job to do then sack them halfway through, before they've had the chance to do what they need to do.
I didnt answer your question because I dont look at it from that point of view. If he has to justify his position based on this season then you can apply that to the players - very few of whom should be at United on that basis either.
This is not about backing Moyes or otherwise. Its about being realistic about the size of the task of repalcing Alex Ferguson the man, in terms of the pressure on a successor, and in deciding how the club is going to go forward, and in bringing in the calibre of players the cluub needs to realistically compete with City and Chelsea.
I suspect a lot of people at the Club thought things would go differetly this year. Perhaps now they realise that while Moyes hasnt performed as expected - the issues with the squad and the impact of Fergie leaving was worse that first thought - hence the sudden keenness to spend big in the summer.
In terms of the dressing room he has the grim task of being the man showing to door to a number of players well liked at the club over the years. There are also a number of players probably well aware that if big names come in they will be surplus to requirements. This isnt his squad and a number may not like him, more than likely because they think their United careers may be on the line. He had no such issues at Everton where he built a strong team which overachieved, the basis of which Martiniz is now doing good things with.
For me this is a huge job. Moyes isnt the most expereinced nor most qualified candidate for the job and has made mistakes. Given that we've come this far and let him make those mistakes I think the club needs to stick by their decision in the short term.
The alternative is to join the "merry go round" of the usual big names who move on after a few years - planning for the short term, and changing the playing staff every few years because they dont suit a particular managers philosophy or style.
Fair enough if thats how you feel. I think its hard to judge any manager trying to develop a style with a different squad of players - some of whom will leave at the end of the year for certain and others who will likely be gone if he can improve the team.
He looks like trying to build the team around Rooney and probably Januzaj and signing Mata shows the level of quality we are hopefully looking at, and indicates to me where he hopes to see the team going in terms of direction. As far as "buying any quality player" I also dont agree - but why would any manager do that? He will have targets in mind whihc he evidently believes will help him to create the side he wants.
The performances recently have been woeful, but however the team is set up it doesnt excuse players inability to pass, move or trap a football. The players need to accept responsibility for this as well. To me a lot of them look unable to cope under this kind of pressure without Fergie there as a failsafe. That tells you a lot, in my opinion, about the character of some of them.
As it is Everton under Moyes were not Barcelona, but they played reltively entertaining football with a physical edge, not too different from what we have played under Fergie a lot of the time. A lot of these players are Fergie's players and did reasonably well. In my opinion a lot of that last season had to do with Fergie's innate ability to drag results from nowhere and the goals of a genuinely world class striker - which papered over a lot of cracks, especially in defence and midfield.
Relative to what?
I suggest re-reading my post, I never said SAF doesn't care about our situation.
I don't agree in the slightest, being a great manager, doesn't say "you know what's needed", what was clear however, was that SAF, doing it his way, did work, even if you applied how he did things to Moyes, it may not work, so it's not always a case of "knowing what makes a manger successful", and lets be quite honest, as much as we love SAF he's a stubborn old bastard to be honest and not that I think he is wrong, but I think if he doubted himself, all he has known is to come out fighting..
Golf.
Moyes needs to get his summer business done early, if not we will be left scrabbling about for the crumbs left over by the CL clubs. If they dither again we may be left buying players who will not get us back into the CL. That will be catastrophic. Are Moyes and Woodward capable of this?
We do need to change some of the players, but not all of them. Unfortunately Moyes has managed to make the whole team look incompetent.
Reddit is just a circlejerk of positivity no matter what subforum you read. Any negativity gets downvoted instantly. Reddit is probably the least representative forum out there.
His 9 previous seasons with Everton. So you just have to wait under a decade to get some decent football from Moyes. Yay!
Sorry Fergie, but the club is more important than having your ego tweeked a bit.
Sounds about rightRelative to other teams I suppose. You're looking for an awful lot of depth in a short sentence there. I thought it made perfect sense.
Stoke City.
When you bring in a new Manager in any field of work, yes you give them time to understand the job and make changes if necessary, but you also expect them to keep performance/production/service at normal levels in the transitional period. To appoint a man who is incapable of keeping the show on the road is bad enough, but to persevere with him and hope he finally gets to grips with the role and successfully implement change is absolute madness.
Moyes is inept, he has proved that already on so many fronts. I dont care what Fergie thinks, he has got to go.
Who?
Done a U-turn on Moyes after some thought and given the opportunity to calm down.
This has been a disasterous season and he has without question underperformed but I do think we should be giving him until at least the mid-way point of next season to give us an indication he's taking us in the right direction.
He's not become a poor manager overnight and I do think the squad he's been left has some pretty huge problems, coupled with the fact that a lot of players are underperforming.
I'm not saying he will turn it round or that I expect him to but given the circumstances of him taking over then I feel he should have a proper crack at the whip. I know it's not a popular opinion, it's not even one I held a few days ago, but that's where I am at the minute.
This has been a disasterous season and he has without question underperformed but I do think we should be giving him until at least the mid-way point of next season to give us an indication he's taking us in the right direction.
He's not become a poor manager overnight and I do think the squad he's been left has some pretty huge problems, coupled with the fact that a lot of players are underperforming.
I'm not saying he will turn it round or that I expect him to but given the circumstances of him taking over then I feel he should have a proper crack at the whip. I know it's not a popular opinion, it's not even one I held a few days ago, but that's where I am at the minute.
I suspect the fact that we haven't played in a while and thus you haven't had to watch any of the dreadful performances we have had of late probably influences that.
Things will change again post the next bad performance.
I don't think so. Or at least I'll try to curb it and try to see past the red-mist!
We always knew it would be tough post-Fergie and that it would be pretty much impossible to replace him. I'm prepared to ride it out for a little while longer yet in the hope Moyes sorts the squad out. Fellaini and Mata are a step in the right direction IMO, despite the opinion of Fellaini on here...
That's probably it yeah. Ignorance is bliss lately , unfortunately.
It's all debatable on Mata and Fellaini. I mean we still need two/three midfielders in the summer even though we just spent £27m on one in the summer doesn't quite fit in as of yet. On Mata, apparently the decison was made above Moyes' head and it kind of shows as he again doesn't quite fit in.
That's not even getting onto the tactics and the fact that the team has regressed as Moyes' tenure grows not improved. It seems as though the only solution Moyes has to any of our issues is to go out and buy more players which alone is a facile tactic. I like some of the players we are linked with but you want your manager to show more than just that.
I've not changed my mind on him but am beginning to feel that I better get used to him and find whatever little positives I can now and also lower my expectations in accordance with his abilities as a manager, because it looks like his position is under no threat whatsoever.
Indeed, the first year after Sir Alexs 27 year pillar of strength came down was always going to be monumentally difficult, it's been a horrendous season on just about every front but the issues that are glaringly obvious were there prior Moyes arrival, the shit football, the midfield quality, the reliance on aging centrebacks etc.
As you say Moyes hasn't become a shit manager overnight, it remains to be seen if hes a United quality manager but he deserves the summer and a 2nd crack at the whip, and if he's still failing badly after having recruited the Likes of Mata, Fellaini and others in the summer, then we get rid.
I sometimes feel the same, but I think that's mainly down to lack of a better option.
Like I said, I know he's been shit and has under performed. There's no denying it. I'm just in no rush to pull the trigger, that's all.
Signings have been good when Mata is included. Fellaini was a little pricey when you look at what he offers and what we needed but a good squad player who is far from as bad as people would have you believe on here.
The problem is that Moyes' tactics are neanderthal and his footballing approach is an abomination. I think the majority of his level-headed critics, myself included, would be more than willing to give him more time if he had the same position in league and cups, but had shown any signs of wanting to play attractive attacking football. His defensive mindset is what I dislike about him.
Defensive approach is acceptable if the results follow. When he plays overly cautiously and get shit results its impossible to defend him. SAF played some dire stuff in Europe aways, anyone who denies that is a history revisionist, but he got results so we learnt to live with it, and our home performances more than made up for it anyway. Moyes better bring his A-game in the coming matches agaisnt City, Liverpool and Olympiakos. But he will probably opt for cautious safe football and lose anyway.