Moyes has to go

[datura]

Exactly.

I would have thought it mainly stemmed from lack of confidence and hence fear of making errors.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I would have thought it mainly stemmed from lack of confidence and hence fear of making errors.

I think it's a mixture of a lack of confidence, and a lack of quality coaching. In the end all of it is for mr. Moyes to sort out.

 

[kps88]

I would have thought it mainly stemmed from lack of confidence and hence fear of making errors.

But then you can say it's the job of the management to give them confidence and the ability to play without fear. Or you can say the senior players should just grow a pair and take responsibility. We can keep twisting this to suit whatever position we want. Reality is it's a bit of both.

 

[Gladiator]

Here are some of my thoughts I may blog about at a later time but I thought I'd post some of them here:

Currently on moyes i am split, i wouldn bat an eyelid if he was sacked but a part of me wants to see what he would do with our club if he stayed on. I think there are reasonable opinions on both sides of the aisle and we all want the same thing: United to get back to the top. I never had to deal with watching United be relegated or consistently midtable so this is a new experience for me.

It's been a very frustrating experience but thrilling at the same time. There are aspects of moyes' philosophy which I think are good but he's shown no consistency with instilling them. He's not all about traditional wingers (i.e. mirallas/pienaar) or incessant crossing but he just seems so lost out there. The picture with him slumped in the chair said it all for me. Like he has no idea what to do. I don't agree he's doing what he's doing because it's his only option. There are certainly some alternatives in the way we setup on the pitch (i.e. crystal palace).

He's walked into a very difficult situation but at the same time as the manager you are responsible for getting the team in a state to deliver results. Simply overhauling the squad doesn't necessarily work. We've seen with Madrid, City, Tottenham more recently the pros and cons of a spending spree.

No idea where we go from here but whatever we decide it needs to be soon, because as of right now, i only see it getting worse. I love this club. I love being a red and I love being on this forum. I hope you all have a phenomenal weekend & hopefully those at the top can make the right decisions to move this club forward! The blame does not lie with one person. It's just absolute chaos.

 

[Mauzindark]

No. He has good contacts to the biggest German press company ("Springer") and is fed infos from there, but overall the guy is around 90% of the time fishing in the dark. I don´t know a single halfway informed German football fan who really takes this pundit seriously and he is suppossed to be a Bundesliga "expert".

K thanks. One more thing ! Is there any mention of the Kroos-United link in the German media unlikely as it is to happen..

 

[Kaos]

Re training the only element we can see is in the warm up and it seems pretty much the same as under SAF - quick one/two touch games of squares etc.

Warm up =/= daily training.

 

[Gladiator]

Here are some of my thoughts I may blog about at a later time but I thought I'd post some of them here:

Currently on moyes i am split, i wouldn bat an eyelid if he was sacked but a part of me wants to see what he would do with our club if he stayed on. I think there are reasonable opinions on both sides of the aisle and we all want the same thing: United to get back to the top. I never had to deal with watching United be relegated or consistently midtable so this is a new experience for me.

It's been a very frustrating experience but thrilling at the same time. There are aspects of moyes' philosophy which I think are good but he's shown no consistency with instilling them. He's not all about traditional wingers (i.e. mirallas/pienaar) or incessant crossing but he just seems so lost out there. The picture with him slumped in the chair said it all for me. Like he has no idea what to do. I don't agree he's doing what he's doing because it's his only option. There are certainly some alternatives in the way we setup on the pitch.

He's walked into a very difficult situation but at the same time as the manager you are responsible for getting the team in a state to deliver results. Simply overhauling the squad doesn't necessarily work. We've seen with Madrid, City, Tottenham more recently the pros and cons of a spending spree.

No idea where we go from here but whatever we decide it needs to be soon, because as of right now, i only see it getting worse. I love this club. I love being a red and I love being on this forum. I hope you all have a phenomenal weekend & hopefully those at the top can make the right decisions to move this club forward! The blame does not lie with one person. It's just absolute chaos.

 

[Kaos]

Here are some of my thoughts I may blog about at a later time but I thought I'd post some of them here:

Currently on moyes i am split, i wouldn bat an eyelid if he was sacked but a part of me wants to see what he would do with our club if he stayed on. I think there are reasonable opinions on both sides of the aisle and we all want the same thing: United to get back to the top. I never had to deal with watching United be relegated or consistently midtable so this is a new experience for me.

It's been a very frustrating experience but thrilling at the same time. There are aspects of moyes' philosophy which I think are good but he's shown no consistency with instilling them. He's not all about traditional wingers (i.e. mirallas/pienaar) or incessant crossing but he just seems so lost out there. The picture with him slumped in the chair said it all for me. Like he has no idea what to do. I don't agree he's doing what he's doing because it's his only option. There are certainly some alternatives in the way we setup on the pitch.

He's walked into a very difficult situation but at the same time as the manager you are responsible for getting the team in a state to deliver results. Simply overhauling the squad doesn't necessarily work. We've seen with Madrid, City, Tottenham more recently the pros and cons of a spending spree.

No idea where we go from here but whatever we decide it needs to be soon, because as of right now, i only see it getting worse. I love this club. I love being a red and I love being on this forum. I hope you all have a phenomenal weekend & hopefully those at the top can make the right decisions to move this club forward! The blame does not lie with one person. It's just absolute chaos.

Can you care to elaborate on what you think these are? I'm genuinely intrigued.

 

[datura]

But then you can say it's the job of the management to give them confidence and the ability to play without fear. Or you can say the senior players should just grow a pair and take responsibility. We can keep twisting this to suit whatever position we want. Reality is it's a bit of both.

I'm not trying to twist anything, it's a joint responsibility. A player doesn't just lose all ability via training. That's nonsense.

I'm as frustrated as anyone re Olympiakos, I thought the team changes unnecessary and difficult to understand why Januzaj and Fellaini in particular weren't starting. We needed to build on recent improvements and failed spectacularly.

From now on I want to see a consistent team selection and playing style.

 

[datura]

Warm up =/= daily training.

I have no idea what this is supposed to mean

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I'm not trying to twist anything, it's a joint responsibility. A player doesn't just lose all ability via training. That's nonsense.

I'm as frustrated as anyone re Olympiakos, I thought the team changes unnecessary and difficult to understand why Januzaj and Fellaini in particular weren't starting. We needed to build on recent improvements and failed spectacularly.

From now on I want to see a consistent team selection and playing style.

But he gains it? How have Liverpool collectively gotten so much more comfortable and classy on the ball? And it's not just the additions either. How do Everton look so good and intelligent on the ball after Martinez took over? How did Barcelona go from who had messi iniesta and xavi in both cases go from a hapless team that kept the ball and did little else and lost out two seasons in a row to a pretty ordinary madrid side, to a swashbuckling all conquering unit that made everyone else look laughably inferior?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Here are some of my thoughts I may blog about at a later time but I thought I'd post some of them here:

Currently on moyes i am split, i wouldn bat an eyelid if he was sacked but a part of me wants to see what he would do with our club if he stayed on. I think there are reasonable opinions on both sides of the aisle and we all want the same thing: United to get back to the top. I never had to deal with watching United be relegated or consistently midtable so this is a new experience for me.

It's been a very frustrating experience but thrilling at the same time. There are aspects of moyes' philosophy which I think are good but he's shown no consistency with instilling them. He's not all about traditional wingers (i.e. mirallas/pienaar) or incessant crossing but he just seems so lost out there. The picture with him slumped in the chair said it all for me. Like he has no idea what to do. I don't agree he's doing what he's doing because it's his only option. There are certainly some alternatives in the way we setup on the pitch.

He's walked into a very difficult situation but at the same time as the manager you are responsible for getting the team in a state to deliver results. Simply overhauling the squad doesn't necessarily work. We've seen with Madrid, City, Tottenham more recently the pros and cons of a spending spree.

No idea where we go from here but whatever we decide it needs to be soon, because as of right now, i only see it getting worse. I love this club. I love being a red and I love being on this forum. I hope you all have a phenomenal weekend & hopefully those at the top can make the right decisions to move this club forward! The blame does not lie with one person. It's just absolute chaos.

Huh? What about this has been thrilling for you exactly?

 

[SATA]

I just had a watch at Carrick's post Olympicos interview, kind of suggest all is indeed not right in the dressing room. That statement he said 'you are obviously looking on me to blame someone' was pretty damning and he isn't going to do it on national television

 

[iSparky]

Anything to these reports that Moyes has lost the entire dressing room? I would imagine that is a bit OTT, I mean why would Rooney sign on again if the whole dressing room is in tatters? If he has indeed lost the whole dressing room then it is time to get rid now more than ever before.

 

[Raoul]

Anything to these reports that Moyes has lost the entire dressing room? I would imagine that is a bit OTT, I mean why would Rooney sign on again if the whole dressing room is in tatters? If he has indeed lost the whole dressing room then it is time to get rid now more than ever before.

Time will tell. The squad definitely aren't playing as if they believe in Moyes or his tactics.

 

[datura]

But he gains it? How have Liverpool collectively gotten so much more comfortable and classy on the ball? And it's not just the additions either. How do Everton look so good and intelligent on the ball after Martinez took over? How did Barcelona go from who had messi iniesta and xavi in both cases go from a hapless team that kept the ball and did little else and lost out two seasons in a row to a pretty ordinary madrid side, to a swashbuckling all conquering unit that made everyone else look laughably inferior?

There's all sorts of factors - recruitment of players, tactics, confidence from results, belief in the manager, maturation of players etc. It's never one sole factor.

 

[StuCol]

Tim Howard has said that Roberto Martinez's approach is to focus on weaknesses of the opposition, regardless of who they are and that training in the days building up to a match are on how Everton are going to play. Rather than this is how they are going to hurt us, then focusing on how to counter act it. In turn creating a worry of what is looming in the next match.

Reminds me of when Moyes said "We will make it as hard for Newcastle as we can".

That was the statement that said it all for me. Wrong attitude.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

Anything to these reports that Moyes has lost the entire dressing room? I would imagine that is a bit OTT, I mean why would Rooney sign on again if the whole dressing room is in tatters? If he has indeed lost the whole dressing room then it is time to get rid now more than ever before.

I think they're playing like they hope he'll be sacked. Rooney is going to be here longer than Moyes will be.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

There's all sorts of factors - recruitment of players, tactics, confidence from results, belief in the manager, maturation of players etc. It's never one sole factor.

No one said it was one sole factor. Tactics and training are a huge factor though. And in the end it comes down to the manager.

 

[datura]

No one said it was one sole factor. Tactics and training are a huge factor though. And in the end it comes down to the manager.

It's a mixture of both players and manager. Apart from in your simplistic myopic world.

 

[Cal?]

Anything to these reports that Moyes has lost the entire dressing room? I would imagine that is a bit OTT, I mean why would Rooney sign on again if the whole dressing room is in tatters? If he has indeed lost the whole dressing room then it is time to get rid now more than ever before.

No one else in the world will pay him 300k a week?

 

[KiD MoYeS]

Rooney's on £250 grand a week, and Chelsea would.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

It's a mixture of both players and manager. Apart from in your simplistic myopic world.

Stop arguing like a child. I'm sure you're capable.

The buck stops with the managers even if the players are also at fault.

 

[Crackers]

What are the odds he's gone if we lose to City and Liverpool?

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

It's a mixture of both players and manager. Apart from in your simplistic myopic world.

The performance levels of the players have declined for differing reasons though, who do you have in mind in particular?

If you take our wingers for instance, it has been as much Moyes' folly to persist with them rather than implementing an effective alternative.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

What are the odds he's gone if we lose to City and Liverpool?

I'd say likely, his position will be untenable.

 

[Crackers]

I'd say likely, his position will be untenable.

I don't want us to lose, but if we do lose, I hope this makes it clear to the Glazers that he's not fit for the role..

 

[LonelyFire]

Huh? What about this has been thrilling for you exactly?

@Gladiator can correct me if im wrong but i think what he means is we no longer turn up to OT knowing we will win. The uncertainty around Utd does bring back an element to the atmosphere - will never forget Blackburn at OT in '07. Won 4-1 from 1-0 down. Atmosphere was electric

 

[KiD MoYeS]

@Gladiator can correct me if im wrong but i think what he means is we no longer turn up to OT knowing we will win. The uncertainty around Utd does bring back an element to the atmosphere - will never forget Blackburn at OT in '07. Won 4-1 from 1-0 down. Atmosphere was electric

The difference then being you still expected us to win when we went a goal down, not anymore.

 

[Keenst]

What are the odds he's gone if we lose to City and Liverpool?

Probably similar to the odds we'll beat both of them. In other words, bye bye David.

 

[Rowem]

I just can't see us getting rid of him before the end of the season.

We'll do it quietly and without fuss either this summer or next, IMO.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

I just can't see us getting rid of him before the end of the season.

We'll do it quietly and without fuss either this summer or next, IMO.

I dunno, if he loses another four or five, which is extremely likely in my opinion, he'll be gone. I see it getting to the stage his position becomes untenable.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

@Gladiator can correct me if im wrong but i think what he means is we no longer turn up to OT knowing we will win. The uncertainty around Utd does bring back an element to the atmosphere - will never forget Blackburn at OT in '07. Won 4-1 from 1-0 down. Atmosphere was electric

Yeah but that's also because of how great we played and the meaning in context of the title race. I can't see how this can be thrilling for any united supporter. It's shit football and shit results. As thrilling as a two day cramp in both calves.

 

[pablotatt]

Evra is apparently one of the unsettling factors. Mainly due to being painfully loyal to Fergie and the previous backroom staff. Same applies to Robin.

 

[Cal?]

I just can't see us getting rid of him before the end of the season.

We'll do it quietly and without fuss either this summer or next, IMO.

I just don't see any good reason to wait till the summer to sack him, the season is dead and we might as well give Giggsy a go at this management malarky.

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

What are the odds he's gone if we lose to City and Liverpool?

The Glazers will need a nudge as many of their advisers are impaired by a conflict of interest.

Up to this point much of the opposition to Moyes has been out of sight out of mind, the OT crowd need to shatter the illusion safety under which the club hierarchy appears to be operating. The supporters have been commendably stoic about events so any widespread discontent could carry an even greater impact.

 

[Buchan]

Evra is apparently one of the unsettling factors. Mainly due to being painfully loyal to Fergie and the previous backroom staff. Same applies to Robin.

No surprise there really. Moyes' pursuit of a left-back - however necessary it was - wasn't one bit subtle. The world and his dog knew Moyes was looking to replace Evra as soon as he took charge.

 

[Pexbo]

Despite being an "unsettling factor" I think Evra has worked his arse off for the team this season and is still a credit to this club.

 

[Crackers]

No surprise there really. Moyes' pursuit of a left-back - however necessary it was - wasn't one bit subtle. The world and his dog knew Moyes was looking to replace Evra as soon as he took charge.

Shows how loyal Evra is to the club.. Absolutely brilliant servant to the club, and whatever happens to him, I wish him well. Hoping he leaves long after Moyes. We could manage him like we did with Rio, and get a year or two more if we had a proper left back as a competitor.

 

[devil in me]

I just don't see any good reason to wait till the summer to sack him, the season is dead and we might as well give Giggsy a go at this management malarky.

Yep, and you never know, something like that might inspire a big result against Olypiakos (big night at OT, special atmosphere etc etc). At least there is a slim (very, very slim) chance of him doing a Di Matteo!