Moyes has to go

Moyes out?

  • Knee jerk/I object to the term knee jerk because I told you he was going to be rubbish in 2003

    Votes: 296 80.4%
  • Head in sand/My name is Baghdad Bob and everything is going to be OK

    Votes: 72 19.6%

  • Total voters
    368
  • Poll closed .
I instantly despise anyone who posts a 'heat map'. It's right, you watch a game and assess it accordingly. You can see if a side has played well or if someone had a good game or if they were slacking. You don't need heat maps or Opta stats or anything else to tell you. It takes the fun out of analysing a game too as an opinion is considered invalid by some if you say "Smith was cack tonight" and some oik posts some stat about how he covered more of the pitch than anyone else and had more shots on goal than anyone.

I've never posted one, but I actually like heat maps. :o

Surely they tell you something about a team's style of play? Perhaps nothing that you can't see for yourself, but a seasonal heat map, for instance, can be informative for those of us who haven't got great memories for where everybody was playing all the time.
 
What's the point though? We were one dimensional against Fulham and diabolical against Olympiakos. Does anyone here really need forensic amateur analysis on YouTube to realise this?

I also think it reinforces this pervasive misconception that footballers are like icons in a computer game, remote controlled by their manager.

Anyone who's played football knows that when you've lost your confidence, nobody in you team is on their game and the opposition have their tails up you're far more likely to punt hopeful balls upfield than try anything more ambitious and risk losing possession in a dangerous area.

By the time Kagawa came on against Olympiakos (hour mark) we were 2-0 down and I, personally, was ranting about the tactics, getting increasingly frustrated, and generally losing my cool. I don't have the ability to watch a game in that state, in real time and mentally tally every possible pass that's on for a specific player. You might do, but I don't.

The video doesn't highlight that our "confidence wasn't up", in fact, most of the highlights come from our most attacking phase in the game, if I remember correctly.

I don't know about the computer game thing - I'm a bloke in my mid 30's.
 
The video further highlights the system Moyes is implementing. He holds no value for centrally based attacking phases of play, which is a major concern. Especially in games like Fulham and Olympiakos in which our obvious over emphasis and reliance on width doesn't work.
 
Correct me if am mistaken but i took your remark about confidence as an excuse for Moyes.

Yeah, you're mistaken.

@FineYoungCasual

Another good example of fans analysing every pass and coming to the wrong conclusion was the last few moments of the Arsenal game. Cleverley took the wind out of an attacking move from us by playing safe with a backwards pass. This immediately prompted gif from someone using it as hard evidence of moyes bottling it and getting his team to play for a draw.

It was only much later that evening when someone pointed out that the BT Sports coverage had a camera on Moyes at that exact moment, absolutely furious about the lack of ambition being shown.
 
Saw this open letter to David Moyes. Can't say I disagree with any of what's said there:

http://www.101greatgoals.com/blog/manchester-united-fan-writes-open-letter-to-david-moyes/

David Moyes,

I write you this letter on behalf of the 659 million United fans worldwide who are at a loss to explain how the champions of England have descended into mediocrity overnight, and I have a strong suspicion that you haven’t got the faintest idea either. I will proceed to spell it out for you:

Coaching Staff

It is widely accepted that your first and possibly biggest error of judgement was relieving three hugely influential members of our esteemed coaching staff, namely Mike Phelen, Rene Meulensteen and Eric Steele, of their duties. The players trusted and respected these individuals, Fergie’s right hand men, who knew the club inside out and who could have passed on invaluable insight from the great man himself. However, for reasons I cannot fathom you decided their knowledge and experience were surplus to requirements, and instead replaced them with Steve Round, Jimmy Lumsden and Chris Woods.

You know these guys better than any of the rest of us, so I would kindly urge you outline their credentials for replacing Mike Phelen, Rene Meulensteen and Eric Steel at the worlds greatest football club. I am personally of the opinion that assembling the senior coaching staff with individuals who have won precisely nothing, to lead players who have won everything there is to win in the domestic game, was a grave error on your part.

Transfer Window

Whilst I accept that this was always going be tricky situation with David Gill also leaving, you certainly did not cover yourself in glory. Firstly, that farcical pursuit of Cesc Fabregas. You and Mr Woodward must be the only two individuals on the planet who thought it possible that he would give up on his childhood club (and the best club team in the world) that he fought so hard to leave Arsenal for in favour of a move to United. And then to heap further embarrassment on the club you submitted bids left right and centre for seemingly every half decent midfielder in Europe. But alas you got your man… Marouane Fellaini.

It worries me that you thought this guy was good enough to play for Manchester United, whilst overlooking young Ross Barkley who will undoubtedly turn out to be England’s star player of his generation. A truly world-class prospect ignored by a truly inept manager.

Now, I understand the transfer market is a very precarious and complex world, far beyond my expertise, so if you feel I’ve missed the mark with any of the above please feel free to explain yourself.

Interviews

Before a ball was even kicked alarm bells were ringing. In your first interview (or one of) and many since you have claimed that ‘it will take time to get things the way I want them’. This implies you were looking to make changes from day one. Whilst this seems to be a stock phrase for new managers coming in, we must remember that they do so usually when a club is in turmoil. However, in your case the complete opposite was true, and in fact you should have tried to seamlessly fit in with a club that has had unprecedented success over the last 25 years. Nothing needed to change… continuity was the key. You needed to fit into the club, not the other way around!

Your post match interviews are infuriating. Your excuses are boring and inaccurate. And your lack of charisma is laid bare. And please please please wipe that stupid dumbfounded grin off your face during post-match interviews following a bad result. I understand that you are not necessarily finding anything amusing, but it drives me absolutely fecking mad, and I have come close to smashing my TV monitor to pieces, and would likely have done so had I not recently invested in a new (and rather expensive) 50″ 3D set.

Training Methods

As a mere fan I am not privy to the goings-on at Carrington, but it is plainly obvious that something is not right. I’m sure I can safely assume that you have subjected the champions of England to near enough the exact same training regime you used at Everton, and it is clearly working because you are achieving near identical results.

At United, the players have been lavished with world class training, delivered by highly skilled coaches such as Carlos Queiroz, and most recently, Rene Meulensteen. Can you imagine the shock to the system when focus was abruptly diverted from innovation, skill and technique to accommodate your, what I believe, are out-dated and old fashioned methods.

From what I can see on the pitch, the players look drained, overworked, lethargic and the technical element of their game has noticeably regressed. I have no other option but to conclude that the work being done on the training ground is not up to the standard that Manchester United Football Club require.

Tactics and Team Selections

If I were to go through every specific error in your team selections and tactics I would be here forever, so I will stick, in part, to your most recent disaster.

It is easy to be clever after the event, however following the announcement of your team selection for the Champions League first leg against Olympiacos, I knew we were in big trouble (and I have the text messages to prove it). What on earth were you thinking employing a basic 4-4-2 line-up away in Europe?

Especially when our wingers, namely Ashley Young and Antonio Valencia are bloody useless, not to mention the ineffective and most pointless footballer, Tom Cleverley. These three players have not managed to hold down regular spots in our team of late, however for some inexplicable reason you felt it right to give them all the nod. That decision can either be put down to a gross misjudgement by yourself, or a complete lack of respect to Olympiacos on your part. Either way it is totally unacceptable and you should come out and explain yourself.

Furthermore, rumours are circulating that Adnan Januzaj and Darren Fletcher were rested for this match, however I refuse to believe that this is true. I may not be your biggest fan but surely surely you are not stupid enough to leave them out of the squad to give them a ‘rest’ when we do not have another match for 11 days. Please can you clarify this situation?

I would also urge you to remember that you are NOT still the manager of Everton FC, but now have some truly gifted and world-class players at your disposal. Please start using them accordingly. If you are unsure how exactly to go about doing this, I suggest you seek the advice of Mike Phelan and Rene Meulensteen….oh no wait….you sacked them!

Conclusion

I don’t think any genuine United fan had serious aspirations of a trophy laden season, as the departure of Sir Alex Furguson was always going to leave a huge void. However, we won the the championship at a canter last season and despite everyone claiming we won it by default, although almost achieving a record number of points, it is unimaginable that we sit so many points adrift of a Champions League spot. In fact it is a disgrace!

Unfortunately, I lay the blame almost single-handedly at your door. The truth of the matter is I cannot think of one positive thing that you have done during your reign, not one. You have not even managed to pick the right team or employ the right tactics for a single match. I would suggest that this is the minimum to be expected from a manager at any level.

No doubt that Manchester United Football Club will stick to their principles and give you time. However, by then I fear you would have led us into the mid-table abyss. So I write this letter to appeal to your better nature. As a life-long United fan, and I feel I say this on behalf of millions of us around the world, we do not want to watch Everton FC playing in red shirts. And I am certain that you know no other way.

Due to the reasons outlined above (and many more that I overlooked) I feel that there is no other option other than to hand in your resignation, and I suggest that you do so with immediate effect.

If you would like me to draft the resignation letter on your behalf I will gladly do so.

Yours Sincerely,

Andrew Christodoulou
Looks like a foreign name. He probably isn't a match goer so I'm going to go ahead and ignore his opinion.
 
Yeah, you're mistaken.

@FineYoungCasual

Another good example of fans analysing every pass and coming to the wrong conclusion was the last few moments of the Arsenal game. Cleverley took the wind out of an attacking move from us by playing safe with a backwards pass. This immediately prompted gif from someone using it as hard evidence of moyes bottling it and getting his team to play for a draw.

It was only much later that evening when someone pointed out that the BT Sports coverage had a camera on Moyes at that exact moment, absolutely furious about the lack of ambition being shown.

You can put that logic to anything in life though man. Happens all the time. People jump to conclusions.

I remember that night when I saw it first and I thought Moyes was going mad at us attacking. Only later did I see it differently.

What annoys me most is, we have another 9 days of this before we play again :(
 
Didn't Moyes maintain during his Everton days that the day he lost the fan's support would be the day he left the club, @SilentWitness?

A lot of them seem pretty happy that he's fecked off really. If you'd ask them if they'd have him back, I'd wager the overwhelming majority would say no (not just because he'd decided to leave).
 
Yeah, you're mistaken.

@FineYoungCasual

Another good example of fans analysing every pass and coming to the wrong conclusion was the last few moments of the Arsenal game. Cleverley took the wind out of an attacking move from us by playing safe with a backwards pass. This immediately prompted gif from someone using it as hard evidence of moyes bottling it and getting his team to play for a draw.

It was only much later that evening when someone pointed out that the BT Sports coverage had a camera on Moyes at that exact moment, absolutely furious about the lack of ambition being shown.

Weren't you bemoaning hashtags a mere few hours ago...?

The example you gave is actually a really great case for the benefits of having more information to analyse! Without the multiple camera angles/split screen shot and subsequent uploading onto the internet, someone could easily presume incorrectly as you pointed out.

Also, to be fair, that was one pass, as opposed to a video analysing countless attacks all showing the exact same pattern of play.
 
He also retired at the end of last season. I really wish people would stop with this sort of stuff, its nonsense, whether Moyes sits on the bench with his left leg over the right, or clenches a fist when we score a goal means nothing whatsoever.

There are plenty of valid complaints to have and plenty of sticks to beat him with. Constantly comparing with Fergie, down to how he reacts to the opposition scoring a goal is pointless. He isn't Fergie, and he never will be.

I'm not comparing...I'm talking about taking over a side that always had a very strong leader. A motivator...someone that actually, yes, scared players. You get used to that as a player surely, you end up wanting it...wanting to be motivated, wanting to be told you are the bloody best, they don't have that now and perhaps, yes, they have to get used to that and adapt and start taking more responsibility for their own careers and legacies. I just miss that rotweiller on the touchline that is all...sheesh!!
 
The problem with the internet is that every dick seems to think that their opinion is worthy of a blog or an open letter or whatever.
 
Weren't you bemoaning hashtags a mere few hours ago...?

The example you gave is actually a really great case for the benefits of having more information to analyse! Without the multiple camera angles/split screen shot and subsequent uploading onto the internet, someone could easily presume incorrectly as you pointed out.

Also, to be fair, that was one pass, as opposed to a video analysing countless attacks all showing the exact same pattern of play.

I hate hashtags. There's none in my post?

It's one pass but it's a good example of how a player/team take the safe option when they've lost their mojo, whether the manager wants it or not.
Or
 
If stats, heat maps and analysis videos/photos aren't for you, then it's quite simple, don't comment on them. It's not as though they're used as an alternative to watching games but rather to highlight or reaffirm opinions on the game that you had whilst you were watching it. Sometimes when you're not keen on a player you focus on every mistake they made (as is happening with a lot of people and Cleverley atm) and sometimes looking back at the stats helps you realise that actually they made more tackles/interceptions than you thought for example, or didn't lose the ball nearly as often as you thought they did it's just that you noticed it every time they did so it felt like it happened loads. They allow points to be made with an example of what you're talking about which can be difficult to explain in text sometimes. Stats and analysis aids are silly in isolation but can help a lot when when used correctly to make a point. If they rub you up the wrong way, simply move on. I don't understand the snobbery!
 
If stats, heat maps and analysis videos/photos aren't for you, then it's quite simple, don't comment on them. It's not as though they're used as an alternative to watching games but rather to highlight or reaffirm opinions on the game that you had whilst you were watching it. Sometimes when you're not keen on a player you focus on every mistake they made (as is happening with a lot of people and Cleverley atm) and sometimes looking back at the stats helps you realise that actually they made more tackles/interceptions than you thought for example, or didn't lose the ball nearly as often as you thought they did it's just that you noticed it every time they did so it felt like it happened loads. They allow points to be made with an example of what you're talking about which can be difficult to explain in text sometimes. Stats and analysis aids are silly in isolation but can help a lot when when used correctly to make a point. If they rub you up the wrong way, simply move on. I don't understand the snobbery!

Well..I leave the stats and analysis to the coaches and club statisticians. They don't really mean much to me. I just watch the game...rather like watching a movie. I watch moment by moment...what a player did ten minutes ago I'm not really interested in...it's what he does next. Buy hey...everyone to their own thing
 
Well..I leave the stats and analysis to the coaches and club statisticians. They don't really mean much to me. I just watch the game...rather like watching a movie. I watch moment by moment...what a player did ten minutes ago I'm not really interested in...it's what he does next. Buy hey...everyone to their own thing
Precisely.
 
I like stats. In context.

It's drawing shit on photos and videos that bothers me.

Each to their own, obviously. Just don't get precious if people criticise stuff you post. If that bothers anyone they probably shouldn't post stuff on a message board.

The irony in this post is staggering. Asking people not to get precious, but getting precious about drawing shit on photos.
 
I like stats. In context.

It's drawing shit on photos and videos that bothers me.

Each to their own, obviously. Just don't get precious if people criticise stuff you post. If that bothers anyone they probably shouldn't post stuff on a message board.

Some if might be wrong, some of it might be right. You shouldn't be bothered if someone explained, with video evidence, something that constructs a valid argument. Being bothered automatically is a problem. Now I know it might be annoying for you to see a few things in a row that are wrong in your opinion, but relax and explain why, or just ignore it.
 
I guess I'm the only one who can't stand this trend for backseat managers to post photos and videos full of arrows and circles showing exactly where they would pass the ball in a game of FIFA 2014. It's incredibly tedious and tells us nothing. We played like shite. Bereft of confidence and constantly taking the easy option. You just need to watch the game to understand that. No need for a tedious deconstruction of every fecking pass.

I think that video's really, really interesting personally. It's not exactly like it's an isolated occurrence is it?
 
Never mind the open letter from the Greek United fan. An open letter to Moyes from an Everton fan has come to light and it is extremely worrying. Leopards don't change their pots it seems.

wp.me/p2BzrZ-a7D #mufc

Sorry I can't copy and this link might not work but the Evertonian was complaining about Moyes turning strikers like Beattie, Johnson and Yakubu from top class strikers into ordinary players by asking them to play wide chasing hopeful long punts from the back. He went on to complain about strikers being near the corner flag instead of the penalty area and concluded 'it appears you have decided the Moyes way is the way Everton are going to play even though it's clearly not working, over half the season gone and not a single performance to get excited about'
 
I've watched Eriksen alot this season so my question is,

What is Moyes doing in that bunker of his? Why weren't we, at the very least, in for this guy??

Is this a joke? We have been interested in him and declined on him, as Fergie did not think he had the mental ability.
 
Is this a joke? We have been interested in him and declined on him, as Fergie did not think he had the mental ability.

Ha clearly it's not a joke if I'm asking the question :)
Clearly he does have the mental ability as he has pulled Spurs back into this game and others this season.

But I didn't know we were interested and declined on...Stupid thing to do imo
 
Ha clearly it's not a joke if I'm asking the question :)
Clearly he does have the mental ability as he has pulled Spurs back into this game and others this season.

But I didn't know we were interested and declined on...Stupid thing to do imo

We have/had players in his position and he goes missing in big matches, he's inconsistent when it matters.
 
I think that Pogue is displaying a lot of displaced anger here because Moyes keeps making him look like a right nincompoop.

It isn't the arrows on the video Pogue, it is David Moyes who is crushing your spirit. You are a victim too! Deep breaths, deep breaths.
 
I sort of admire the blind faith some of you have shown towards Moyes for almost half a season now.
 
I think that Pogue is displaying a lot of displaced anger here because Moyes keeps making him look like a right nincompoop.

It isn't the arrows on the video Pogue, it is David Moyes who is crushing your spirit. You are a victim too! Deep breaths, deep breaths.

Anger? As moses once said. Read that post back with the voice of Roger Moore. That's exactly how worked up I am.