He was also willing to break our club record fee for both Hazard and Lucas Moura, but both deals never happened for differing reasons.
Moyes has to go
- Thread starter Orton
- Start date
Nothing to do with the current discussion but I heard somewhere that Moyes, Round and Lumsden have not moved to Greater Manchester. Only Phil Neville lives in Cheshire because he never moved to Merseyside when he played there. Just wondered if the reason was something to do with not feeling secure enough in their jobs yet.
Probably nothing to it. Moyes is definitely settled living where he is, he's been there years.
They probably thought there's no need to move what with Manchester not being far from Liverpool rather than anything to do with not feeling secure in their jobs.
This video should have it's own thread, seriously - and anytime anyone suggests that Moyes needs to 'make the team his own', 'gut our squad', or that 'it's the players not the tactics' they should be referred to this and told to shut up.
Out of all the hundreds of thousands of posts on the Moyes regime, this video is the single most valuable.
The slow mo parts sound like the predator
All I can do is laugh, incredibly frustrating.
HE IS LOOKING ONLY THE BALL!
Boom to the side, I feel this should become a new RedCafe meme.
That video is great, not only for the broken English but it displays the teams mentality and Moyes' lack of trust in attacking down the middle.
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/5live/williams/williams_20140227-1550a.mp3
9m 30s onwards - Five contributors and it is the fans alone who raise direct concerns about the situation, only then to be dismissed or flicked away like a piece of dirt upon one's clothing.
David Meek: "The fans are in cloud cuckoo land."
9m 30s onwards - Five contributors and it is the fans alone who raise direct concerns about the situation, only then to be dismissed or flicked away like a piece of dirt upon one's clothing.
David Meek: "The fans are in cloud cuckoo land."
The media on Moyes have been increasingly odd - it clearly goes beyond them wanting to support a British manager. It almost seems like certain channels are contractually bound not to criticise him or something.
Here's Savage on the BBC stating that if Pellegrini manages to win a domestic double but fails to win the PL in his first season "questions need to be asked of him as a manager" - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26281883 - 2.30
You have to laugh...
That video is shocking. To paraphrase George Orwell in 1984, if you want a picture of the future [under Moyes], imagine a picture of Ashley Young's boot crossing without looking up - forever.
I guess I'm the only one who can't stand this trend for backseat managers to post photos and videos full of arrows and circles showing exactly where they would pass the ball in a game of FIFA 2014. It's incredibly tedious and tells us nothing. We played like shite. Bereft of confidence and constantly taking the easy option. You just need to watch the game to understand that. No need for a tedious deconstruction of every fecking pass.
I often wonder (well this season anyway) if SAF chose not to spend big and spend the bare minimum to remain successful because he was hoping the next manager would use the funds to build a new team. After 2010 we hardly made any major signings (RvP aside) and i feel SAF just thought hes closer to the end of his spell and didnt want to leave the next manager a squad with no funds, not because players didnt want to play under him. I mean if the rumours are true and we have £200m to spend then thats some war chest.
Moyes will find it hard to attract players because A) team is doing bad under him and B) who would want to play under him?
I will give him 12 years before I judge him, IMO it's pointless judging a manager before he's had a dozen years with the club.
What you have to laugh at is certain fans not actually understanding that just because they think Moyes is an obvious flop that not everybody agrees with them.
That it must be some conspiracy to protect Moyes. SAF and the club obviously just don't want to look stupid by sacking Moyes this early so they will keep him until they don't look quite so silly . .
Yes, that's it . . There is absolutely no chance that fans simply don't have any knowledge on what is required to run a club, manage a squad or when exactly it is worth persisting with a manager under these kind of circumstances. Its all one big conspiracy to fool the angry United fans who know better . .
sometimes people have to see it like that just to drive the point home. Plus it's a bit rich to assume that's how they would pass the ball in a game of FIFA. dont think it's become that dim haha
Almost as though the media have this crazy idea that replacing Sir Alex Ferguson is a uniquely difficult job.
Mental really... What are they smoking?
I often wonder if its the media trying to be responsible and ensure one of the countries top footballing sides has a British manager at the helm, its similar with Brendon Rogers...
Then again they could all be loving it!
Still doesn't explain the regression under Moyes. There's just too much noise, disgruntled players and rumours are not signs of a happy ship. We need everybody to pull in the same direction though.
Just to summarise here and to put everything into perspective here,
Negatives:
A laughable summer transfer window.
Spunking money on Fellaini at the last second even though he could have got him cheaper.
City steam rolling us with ease
Awful defeats at home to West Brom, Newcastle and Spurs
Conceding pathetic last minute goals that either defeated us or lost us 3 points.
"That" performance against Fulham
Awful tactics
Awful game plan
Awful set ups
Weird and strange team selections
Some God awful comments to the media
The "it's the first chance I've had to really get to know the players" quote on the Dubai trip
Knocked out of all domestic cup competitions by January
Possibly the worst performance from any team in the CL this year last Tuesday in Greece (I take Schalke last night on a par with it)
6th in the league (Soon to be 7th when games in hand are played)
The whole "well I'm not worse of from last year" press conference
No chance of the top 4
A good chance of no European football next year
The alienation of Hernandez, Kagawa, Zaha.
The bickering and snide remarks from Rio
An inside reporter saying all is not well with some players and management
And now the RVP thing is gaining some truth.
I'm not counting this Aaron Lennon rumour as even Moyes is not that desperate.
Positives:
He brought iPads and whiteboards to Carrington
Januzaj
I'd include the Rooney contract but people seem split on that
Admittedly, I don't want Moyes here and have no faith in him what so ever. I wouldn't trust him to make me a cup of tea without the tea been knocked out.......So, while I might be biased, these are facts and can't be disputed.
Negatives:
A laughable summer transfer window.
Spunking money on Fellaini at the last second even though he could have got him cheaper.
City steam rolling us with ease
Awful defeats at home to West Brom, Newcastle and Spurs
Conceding pathetic last minute goals that either defeated us or lost us 3 points.
"That" performance against Fulham
Awful tactics
Awful game plan
Awful set ups
Weird and strange team selections
Some God awful comments to the media
The "it's the first chance I've had to really get to know the players" quote on the Dubai trip
Knocked out of all domestic cup competitions by January
Possibly the worst performance from any team in the CL this year last Tuesday in Greece (I take Schalke last night on a par with it)
6th in the league (Soon to be 7th when games in hand are played)
The whole "well I'm not worse of from last year" press conference
No chance of the top 4
A good chance of no European football next year
The alienation of Hernandez, Kagawa, Zaha.
The bickering and snide remarks from Rio
An inside reporter saying all is not well with some players and management
And now the RVP thing is gaining some truth.
I'm not counting this Aaron Lennon rumour as even Moyes is not that desperate.
Positives:
He brought iPads and whiteboards to Carrington
Januzaj
I'd include the Rooney contract but people seem split on that
Admittedly, I don't want Moyes here and have no faith in him what so ever. I wouldn't trust him to make me a cup of tea without the tea been knocked out.......So, while I might be biased, these are facts and can't be disputed.
They say if you sit beside a stream long enough the bodies of all your enemies will eventually come floating past.
I remember the first poll, when only a few brave souls voted to rid the world of this monster - a mere 25% of the Cafe.
Now look at us! The lunatics have taken over the asylum.
Unfortunately there's no sign of Bobby or Fergie's bloated corpse yet. More sitting required.
I remember the first poll, when only a few brave souls voted to rid the world of this monster - a mere 25% of the Cafe.
Now look at us! The lunatics have taken over the asylum.
Unfortunately there's no sign of Bobby or Fergie's bloated corpse yet. More sitting required.
The fans are at least analysing the problems specific to Moyes rather than assuming that time will solve all ills, or throwing otherwise talented players under the bus to shield and under performing manager.
Why so? Should there not have been a modest degree of buoyancy following the Palace result, a quality that the manager looks to seize upon instead of spurning as we witnessed in Greece?
I actually think we're in a great day and age for people to expand their knowledge of the game via fan analysis, and I commend those that take the initiative to share their observations. It helps all of us to develop our knowledge of the game, if you're in a position to accept that you don't know everything about football already.
For instance it'd be great if someone could post a video pointing out things Moyes is actually trying to implement that hadn't been noticed yet by the mass fanbase. Sadly, it seems that there really isn't anything tangible that he's trying to instil in our play
The video isn't so much demonstrating "where they would pass the ball", it's simply stopping the game and showing you the options that were in fact available, often simple passes. It's a very revealing video in terms of the space Kagawa can find but more-so it reveals how our players have been drilled tactically - they're constantly looking for the long ball, to the point of it being laughable.
I think videos like this, and the video that contained all 81 crosses against Fulham are great. I think the fact that people can watch this stuff, if they choose to, means it's less likely we'll accept these kind of performances for long. It draws attention to just how bad something is.
And Pogue is bitter.
Of course there should have been. Christ, what a daft question. Is there a United fan on the planet who didn't find our performance a crushing disappointment?
12 years!? Go and support City. FFS he's taking over from Fergie, it's a unique postition. He needs at least 18 years due to other teams probable future improvement.
He needs to make the entire club his own - I wanna see him gut our canteen and bring in his own dinner ladies before I judge him.
I instantly despise anyone who posts a 'heat map'. It's right, you watch a game and assess it accordingly. You can see if a side has played well or if someone had a good game or if they were slacking. You don't need heat maps or Opta stats or anything else to tell you. It takes the fun out of analysing a game too as an opinion is considered invalid by some if you say "Smith was cack tonight" and some oik posts some stat about how he covered more of the pitch than anyone else and had more shots on goal than anyone.
Sir Alex got nearly 27 years, so why stop at 18?
Correct me if am mistaken but i took your remark about confidence as an excuse for Moyes.
I feel your pain mate. I've had a shit couple of months and United has always been my escape, yet this dour, shit-on-a-stick shambles we're having to endure has taken the excitement out of watching United. I don't really blame Moyes that much since its not his fault he was hired, but I really do hope he crumbles and is fired/quits ASAP. What frustrates me more is how many fans/pundits are digging their head in the sand and are adamant we give him more time - no other club would accept such a dramatic regression, its bizarre.
Toward the right flank?
I actually think we're in a great day and age for people to expand their knowledge of the game via fan analysis, and I commend those that take the initiative to share their observations. It helps all of us to develop our knowledge of the game, if you're in a position to accept that you don't know everything about football already.
For instance it'd be great if someone could post a video pointing out things Moyes is actually trying to implement that hadn't been noticed yet by the mass fanbase. Sadly, it seems that there really isn't anything tangible that he's trying to instil in our play
The video isn't so much demonstrating "where they would pass the ball", it's simply stopping the game and showing you the options that were in fact available, often simple passes. It's a very revealing video in terms of the space Kagawa can find but more-so it reveals how our players have been drilled tactically - they're constantly looking for the long ball, to the point of it being laughable.
I think videos like this, and the video that contained all 81 crosses against Fulham are great. I think the fact that people can watch this stuff, if they choose to, means it's less likely we'll accept these kind of performances for long. It draws attention to just how bad something is.
What's the point though? We were one dimensional against Fulham and diabolical against Olympiakos. Does anyone here really need forensic amateur analysis on YouTube to realise this?
I also think it reinforces this pervasive misconception that footballers are like icons in a computer game, remote controlled by their manager.
Anyone who's played football knows that when you've lost your confidence, nobody in you team is on their game and the opposition have their tails up you're far more likely to punt hopeful balls upfield than try anything more ambitious and risk losing possession in a dangerous area.
I mean, come on. Does anyone seriously think Moyes told the players to play the way they did against Palace then took them to one side before the next game and said "right, lads, that's enough of that. Time to start hoofing..."
They say if you sit beside a stream long enough the bodies of all your enemies will eventually come floating past.
I remember the first poll, when only a few brave souls voted to rid the world of this monster - a mere 25% of the Cafe.
Now look at us! The lunatics have taken over the asylum.
Unfortunately there's no sign of Bobby or Fergie's bloated corpse yet. More sitting required.
Whoa.
Saw this open letter to David Moyes. Can't say I disagree with any of what's said there:
http://www.101greatgoals.com/blog/manchester-united-fan-writes-open-letter-to-david-moyes/
David Moyes,
I write you this letter on behalf of the 659 million United fans worldwide who are at a loss to explain how the champions of England have descended into mediocrity overnight, and I have a strong suspicion that you haven’t got the faintest idea either. I will proceed to spell it out for you:
Coaching Staff
It is widely accepted that your first and possibly biggest error of judgement was relieving three hugely influential members of our esteemed coaching staff, namely Mike Phelen, Rene Meulensteen and Eric Steele, of their duties. The players trusted and respected these individuals, Fergie’s right hand men, who knew the club inside out and who could have passed on invaluable insight from the great man himself. However, for reasons I cannot fathom you decided their knowledge and experience were surplus to requirements, and instead replaced them with Steve Round, Jimmy Lumsden and Chris Woods.
You know these guys better than any of the rest of us, so I would kindly urge you outline their credentials for replacing Mike Phelen, Rene Meulensteen and Eric Steel at the worlds greatest football club. I am personally of the opinion that assembling the senior coaching staff with individuals who have won precisely nothing, to lead players who have won everything there is to win in the domestic game, was a grave error on your part.
Transfer Window
Whilst I accept that this was always going be tricky situation with David Gill also leaving, you certainly did not cover yourself in glory. Firstly, that farcical pursuit of Cesc Fabregas. You and Mr Woodward must be the only two individuals on the planet who thought it possible that he would give up on his childhood club (and the best club team in the world) that he fought so hard to leave Arsenal for in favour of a move to United. And then to heap further embarrassment on the club you submitted bids left right and centre for seemingly every half decent midfielder in Europe. But alas you got your man… Marouane Fellaini.
It worries me that you thought this guy was good enough to play for Manchester United, whilst overlooking young Ross Barkley who will undoubtedly turn out to be England’s star player of his generation. A truly world-class prospect ignored by a truly inept manager.
Now, I understand the transfer market is a very precarious and complex world, far beyond my expertise, so if you feel I’ve missed the mark with any of the above please feel free to explain yourself.
Interviews
Before a ball was even kicked alarm bells were ringing. In your first interview (or one of) and many since you have claimed that ‘it will take time to get things the way I want them’. This implies you were looking to make changes from day one. Whilst this seems to be a stock phrase for new managers coming in, we must remember that they do so usually when a club is in turmoil. However, in your case the complete opposite was true, and in fact you should have tried to seamlessly fit in with a club that has had unprecedented success over the last 25 years. Nothing needed to change… continuity was the key. You needed to fit into the club, not the other way around!
Your post match interviews are infuriating. Your excuses are boring and inaccurate. And your lack of charisma is laid bare. And please please please wipe that stupid dumbfounded grin off your face during post-match interviews following a bad result. I understand that you are not necessarily finding anything amusing, but it drives me absolutely fecking mad, and I have come close to smashing my TV monitor to pieces, and would likely have done so had I not recently invested in a new (and rather expensive) 50″ 3D set.
Training Methods
As a mere fan I am not privy to the goings-on at Carrington, but it is plainly obvious that something is not right. I’m sure I can safely assume that you have subjected the champions of England to near enough the exact same training regime you used at Everton, and it is clearly working because you are achieving near identical results.
At United, the players have been lavished with world class training, delivered by highly skilled coaches such as Carlos Queiroz, and most recently, Rene Meulensteen. Can you imagine the shock to the system when focus was abruptly diverted from innovation, skill and technique to accommodate your, what I believe, are out-dated and old fashioned methods.
From what I can see on the pitch, the players look drained, overworked, lethargic and the technical element of their game has noticeably regressed. I have no other option but to conclude that the work being done on the training ground is not up to the standard that Manchester United Football Club require.
Tactics and Team Selections
If I were to go through every specific error in your team selections and tactics I would be here forever, so I will stick, in part, to your most recent disaster.
It is easy to be clever after the event, however following the announcement of your team selection for the Champions League first leg against Olympiacos, I knew we were in big trouble (and I have the text messages to prove it). What on earth were you thinking employing a basic 4-4-2 line-up away in Europe?
Especially when our wingers, namely Ashley Young and Antonio Valencia are bloody useless, not to mention the ineffective and most pointless footballer, Tom Cleverley. These three players have not managed to hold down regular spots in our team of late, however for some inexplicable reason you felt it right to give them all the nod. That decision can either be put down to a gross misjudgement by yourself, or a complete lack of respect to Olympiacos on your part. Either way it is totally unacceptable and you should come out and explain yourself.
Furthermore, rumours are circulating that Adnan Januzaj and Darren Fletcher were rested for this match, however I refuse to believe that this is true. I may not be your biggest fan but surely surely you are not stupid enough to leave them out of the squad to give them a ‘rest’ when we do not have another match for 11 days. Please can you clarify this situation?
I would also urge you to remember that you are NOT still the manager of Everton FC, but now have some truly gifted and world-class players at your disposal. Please start using them accordingly. If you are unsure how exactly to go about doing this, I suggest you seek the advice of Mike Phelan and Rene Meulensteen….oh no wait….you sacked them!
Conclusion
I don’t think any genuine United fan had serious aspirations of a trophy laden season, as the departure of Sir Alex Furguson was always going to leave a huge void. However, we won the the championship at a canter last season and despite everyone claiming we won it by default, although almost achieving a record number of points, it is unimaginable that we sit so many points adrift of a Champions League spot. In fact it is a disgrace!
Unfortunately, I lay the blame almost single-handedly at your door. The truth of the matter is I cannot think of one positive thing that you have done during your reign, not one. You have not even managed to pick the right team or employ the right tactics for a single match. I would suggest that this is the minimum to be expected from a manager at any level.
No doubt that Manchester United Football Club will stick to their principles and give you time. However, by then I fear you would have led us into the mid-table abyss. So I write this letter to appeal to your better nature. As a life-long United fan, and I feel I say this on behalf of millions of us around the world, we do not want to watch Everton FC playing in red shirts. And I am certain that you know no other way.
Due to the reasons outlined above (and many more that I overlooked) I feel that there is no other option other than to hand in your resignation, and I suggest that you do so with immediate effect.
If you would like me to draft the resignation letter on your behalf I will gladly do so.
Yours Sincerely,
Andrew Christodoulou
http://www.101greatgoals.com/blog/manchester-united-fan-writes-open-letter-to-david-moyes/
David Moyes,
I write you this letter on behalf of the 659 million United fans worldwide who are at a loss to explain how the champions of England have descended into mediocrity overnight, and I have a strong suspicion that you haven’t got the faintest idea either. I will proceed to spell it out for you:
Coaching Staff
It is widely accepted that your first and possibly biggest error of judgement was relieving three hugely influential members of our esteemed coaching staff, namely Mike Phelen, Rene Meulensteen and Eric Steele, of their duties. The players trusted and respected these individuals, Fergie’s right hand men, who knew the club inside out and who could have passed on invaluable insight from the great man himself. However, for reasons I cannot fathom you decided their knowledge and experience were surplus to requirements, and instead replaced them with Steve Round, Jimmy Lumsden and Chris Woods.
You know these guys better than any of the rest of us, so I would kindly urge you outline their credentials for replacing Mike Phelen, Rene Meulensteen and Eric Steel at the worlds greatest football club. I am personally of the opinion that assembling the senior coaching staff with individuals who have won precisely nothing, to lead players who have won everything there is to win in the domestic game, was a grave error on your part.
Transfer Window
Whilst I accept that this was always going be tricky situation with David Gill also leaving, you certainly did not cover yourself in glory. Firstly, that farcical pursuit of Cesc Fabregas. You and Mr Woodward must be the only two individuals on the planet who thought it possible that he would give up on his childhood club (and the best club team in the world) that he fought so hard to leave Arsenal for in favour of a move to United. And then to heap further embarrassment on the club you submitted bids left right and centre for seemingly every half decent midfielder in Europe. But alas you got your man… Marouane Fellaini.
It worries me that you thought this guy was good enough to play for Manchester United, whilst overlooking young Ross Barkley who will undoubtedly turn out to be England’s star player of his generation. A truly world-class prospect ignored by a truly inept manager.
Now, I understand the transfer market is a very precarious and complex world, far beyond my expertise, so if you feel I’ve missed the mark with any of the above please feel free to explain yourself.
Interviews
Before a ball was even kicked alarm bells were ringing. In your first interview (or one of) and many since you have claimed that ‘it will take time to get things the way I want them’. This implies you were looking to make changes from day one. Whilst this seems to be a stock phrase for new managers coming in, we must remember that they do so usually when a club is in turmoil. However, in your case the complete opposite was true, and in fact you should have tried to seamlessly fit in with a club that has had unprecedented success over the last 25 years. Nothing needed to change… continuity was the key. You needed to fit into the club, not the other way around!
Your post match interviews are infuriating. Your excuses are boring and inaccurate. And your lack of charisma is laid bare. And please please please wipe that stupid dumbfounded grin off your face during post-match interviews following a bad result. I understand that you are not necessarily finding anything amusing, but it drives me absolutely fecking mad, and I have come close to smashing my TV monitor to pieces, and would likely have done so had I not recently invested in a new (and rather expensive) 50″ 3D set.
Training Methods
As a mere fan I am not privy to the goings-on at Carrington, but it is plainly obvious that something is not right. I’m sure I can safely assume that you have subjected the champions of England to near enough the exact same training regime you used at Everton, and it is clearly working because you are achieving near identical results.
At United, the players have been lavished with world class training, delivered by highly skilled coaches such as Carlos Queiroz, and most recently, Rene Meulensteen. Can you imagine the shock to the system when focus was abruptly diverted from innovation, skill and technique to accommodate your, what I believe, are out-dated and old fashioned methods.
From what I can see on the pitch, the players look drained, overworked, lethargic and the technical element of their game has noticeably regressed. I have no other option but to conclude that the work being done on the training ground is not up to the standard that Manchester United Football Club require.
Tactics and Team Selections
If I were to go through every specific error in your team selections and tactics I would be here forever, so I will stick, in part, to your most recent disaster.
It is easy to be clever after the event, however following the announcement of your team selection for the Champions League first leg against Olympiacos, I knew we were in big trouble (and I have the text messages to prove it). What on earth were you thinking employing a basic 4-4-2 line-up away in Europe?
Especially when our wingers, namely Ashley Young and Antonio Valencia are bloody useless, not to mention the ineffective and most pointless footballer, Tom Cleverley. These three players have not managed to hold down regular spots in our team of late, however for some inexplicable reason you felt it right to give them all the nod. That decision can either be put down to a gross misjudgement by yourself, or a complete lack of respect to Olympiacos on your part. Either way it is totally unacceptable and you should come out and explain yourself.
Furthermore, rumours are circulating that Adnan Januzaj and Darren Fletcher were rested for this match, however I refuse to believe that this is true. I may not be your biggest fan but surely surely you are not stupid enough to leave them out of the squad to give them a ‘rest’ when we do not have another match for 11 days. Please can you clarify this situation?
I would also urge you to remember that you are NOT still the manager of Everton FC, but now have some truly gifted and world-class players at your disposal. Please start using them accordingly. If you are unsure how exactly to go about doing this, I suggest you seek the advice of Mike Phelan and Rene Meulensteen….oh no wait….you sacked them!
Conclusion
I don’t think any genuine United fan had serious aspirations of a trophy laden season, as the departure of Sir Alex Furguson was always going to leave a huge void. However, we won the the championship at a canter last season and despite everyone claiming we won it by default, although almost achieving a record number of points, it is unimaginable that we sit so many points adrift of a Champions League spot. In fact it is a disgrace!
Unfortunately, I lay the blame almost single-handedly at your door. The truth of the matter is I cannot think of one positive thing that you have done during your reign, not one. You have not even managed to pick the right team or employ the right tactics for a single match. I would suggest that this is the minimum to be expected from a manager at any level.
No doubt that Manchester United Football Club will stick to their principles and give you time. However, by then I fear you would have led us into the mid-table abyss. So I write this letter to appeal to your better nature. As a life-long United fan, and I feel I say this on behalf of millions of us around the world, we do not want to watch Everton FC playing in red shirts. And I am certain that you know no other way.
Due to the reasons outlined above (and many more that I overlooked) I feel that there is no other option other than to hand in your resignation, and I suggest that you do so with immediate effect.
If you would like me to draft the resignation letter on your behalf I will gladly do so.
Yours Sincerely,
Andrew Christodoulou
To be fair, he sounds like a dick. For every point, he starts with a 'Well, I can't be sure'. Well if you can't, just drop it.