I didn't say we're at a disadvantage here, and it was not one of negative factors I mentioned in that respect. He merely mentioned money as some compensation we might be able to offer to cover for the other negatives, but I don't think that works with clubs like City and Chelsea who are not short of cash themselves.
Moyes has to go
- Thread starter Orton
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I remember an old SAF interview. Back then retirement wasn't on the cards but questions were asked when he was going to call it a day. After being asked that question, SAF confessed how difficult is for him to retire because so many people depended on him. Coaching staff, players etc may have to leave if a new manager comes in and that something that weighted heavily on his conscience.
That's when I felt that things are going to get sour when SAF was going to retire. With the former gaffer having so much strength within the club, the new manager would probably someone who comes from his own background, a person who will not shake the boat too much and will play according to SAF tunes. At first glance Moyes may not look like that sort of manager. He did fired SAF's coaching staff after all. However he was smart enough to promote various Fergie babes as coaches. Scholes, Giggs, Butt and Neville are legends in the club eyes but such 'experience' is redundant for a quality overseas manager who would probably see them as rookies in his own eyes.
So replacing Moyes wont be easy. First of all Moyes is probably paid very well and will demand a large severance pay. Secondly it would mean that SAF choice in promoting Moyes was bad. That would surely weaken his power at OT. Thirdly a new manager would probably want his own men which would mean sacking Moyes people (all on good salary) + sacking/weakening some of the former Fergie kids.
Its more likely that Moyes will either resign or being given a blank cheque to sort things out rather then be sacked. Things may change however if the fans decide to turn against him. Nothing is worse in business then having the majority of your customers raging insults towards an incompetent employee.
That's when I felt that things are going to get sour when SAF was going to retire. With the former gaffer having so much strength within the club, the new manager would probably someone who comes from his own background, a person who will not shake the boat too much and will play according to SAF tunes. At first glance Moyes may not look like that sort of manager. He did fired SAF's coaching staff after all. However he was smart enough to promote various Fergie babes as coaches. Scholes, Giggs, Butt and Neville are legends in the club eyes but such 'experience' is redundant for a quality overseas manager who would probably see them as rookies in his own eyes.
So replacing Moyes wont be easy. First of all Moyes is probably paid very well and will demand a large severance pay. Secondly it would mean that SAF choice in promoting Moyes was bad. That would surely weaken his power at OT. Thirdly a new manager would probably want his own men which would mean sacking Moyes people (all on good salary) + sacking/weakening some of the former Fergie kids.
Its more likely that Moyes will either resign or being given a blank cheque to sort things out rather then be sacked. Things may change however if the fans decide to turn against him. Nothing is worse in business then having the majority of your customers raging insults towards an incompetent employee.
honest question- do you not think that Fergie deliberately didn't want enter bidding wars?
I feel that he set a budget for each target and if deal exceed that he would have pulled out.
Just can't get my head around this modern system of scouting with HD screens and iPads and freaking supercomputers and satellites nonsense in Odgen's article. So you're telling me Moyes has overhauled the scouting system and discovered gems like "Porto defender Eliaquim Mangala, Borussia Dortmund’s holding midfielder Ilkay Gundogan, Bayern Munich midfielder Toni Kroos and Southampton full-back Luke Shaw are the priority targets, with Paris St-Germain forward Edinson Cavani and Atlético Madrid’s Diego Costa also being watched" ? When even a punter on the street could come up with those names in 5 minutes. Mind boggling stuff.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/02/26/article-2568743-1BD4371B00000578-93_634x445.jpg
this picture speaks volumes
this picture speaks volumes
Yes I'm afraid this one does...I said before this must have demoralising for the team if they saw it. Ok, so in his later years Fergie had hip problems so couldn't always jump up and down, but when the opposition scored he used to leap from his chair get straight onto the touchline and berate and yell at his team to get right to it and score a goal..heads up. He was always daring them to feel sorry for themselves for one second!!
All this garbage about IPads just strikes me as more excuses for not trusting Jim Lawlor on Thiago last summer. Not having it. Dithering Dave and Cowboy Woody seem to think dropping names agents have been pushing all season will convince us they are unearthing gems in the ICloud. Laughable.
He also retired at the end of last season. I really wish people would stop with this sort of stuff, its nonsense, whether Moyes sits on the bench with his left leg over the right, or clenches a fist when we score a goal means nothing whatsoever.
There are plenty of valid complaints to have and plenty of sticks to beat him with. Constantly comparing with Fergie, down to how he reacts to the opposition scoring a goal is pointless. He isn't Fergie, and he never will be.
I like that article. I hope it's true. I want a serious evaluation at the end of the season, before any money gets spent. Even if they conclude that Moyes should stay, I want to believe that they'll demand that the targets chosen aren't just a set of talented well-known names. I want them to be players that address the problems in our playing style as well as the weaknesses in the squad, and leaves no hiding place for further excuses.
If he can't make good use of the players he's got, he shouldn't be allowed to sack half the team.
I don't think the point is just comparing him to Fergie. I think he's referring to something we kind of miss in him. Motivating the players to give their all, and spurring them to get back in the game when we go behind. It's not like he's complaining about him not chewing gum during games like Fergie.
I do understand that some managers rely more on tactics than on motivating the players, but in Moyes' case, there is a legitimate reason why we'd like to see him try the motivation path.
The Independent article reads like the journalist has been briefed off record by the club. I take it as the first legitimate sign that Moyes is under pressure.
I get the feeling that Moyes has already written this season off in his mind and that he was waiting to cull the squad in the summer, to get rid of all his perceived deadwood.
It seems that the club are indicating that this season will not be accepted as a write off from here on out and rightly so.
I get the feeling that Moyes has already written this season off in his mind and that he was waiting to cull the squad in the summer, to get rid of all his perceived deadwood.
It seems that the club are indicating that this season will not be accepted as a write off from here on out and rightly so.
This. Just because Fergie didn't want to pay over what he thought were right valuations, doesn't mean that he had trouble attracting the best players. Certainly not in his last decade here.
Explain.
I've avoided the media these last couple of days. What's the news? Is he done?
From that Independent article is the following line:
That's a very good point. He's constantly been speaking about wanting to get players in firstly during the summer then the winter the the summer after but even when new (or returning) players arrives, nothing changes. I said a while back and I think it stands true - if you have someone who can't build a house they're not going to suddenly be able to do so if you buy them better quality bricks. It's stunning how you could take the team that struggled in the latter half of 2013, add Mata, Rooney, RVP and give him the option (although unselected) of £29m Fellaini and a talent like Januzaj - and still things don't improve. It must make the owners weary about this apparent £200m kitty in the summer.
Besides I thought one of the supporting ideas for his getting the job was his ability to build a team. If he's going to become one of those managers who needs near £300m investment to be successful we could have got a lot better elsewhere.
That's a very good point. He's constantly been speaking about wanting to get players in firstly during the summer then the winter the the summer after but even when new (or returning) players arrives, nothing changes. I said a while back and I think it stands true - if you have someone who can't build a house they're not going to suddenly be able to do so if you buy them better quality bricks. It's stunning how you could take the team that struggled in the latter half of 2013, add Mata, Rooney, RVP and give him the option (although unselected) of £29m Fellaini and a talent like Januzaj - and still things don't improve. It must make the owners weary about this apparent £200m kitty in the summer.
Besides I thought one of the supporting ideas for his getting the job was his ability to build a team. If he's going to become one of those managers who needs near £300m investment to be successful we could have got a lot better elsewhere.
They must be getting really desperate for news.
To be fair, if he couldn't conjure up decent performances with the squad of the reigning champions, what good would another square peg in a winger-shaped hole (Mata) do?
I suspect it'll be less if we lose our next two league games...
Absolutely. I thought that was a good point as well.
I pointed out a while back to absurdity of the situation that you allude to.
For years we derided opposition teams who 'bought success'
We moaned and groaned about the tight fisted Glazers
Now here the Glazer's and the United fans are, happily ready to splash as quarter of a billion just to get back into the top 4
All this is the name of having a suitably dour Scottish manager who meets the approval of Sir Alex
A top manager like Mou would have only needed to tweak the squad to continue with our success
It certainly is absurd.
Not exactly the media, but he's apparently the bookmakers favorite to be the next premier league manager to be sacked.
He's barely been ripped into. It's quite alarming that he's still given a free ride with this whole sorry victim scenario.
He's so safe in his job right now.
If Moyes did that we'd have slews of people on here complaining and critcising him 'who does he think he is to be shouting at these players, whats he ever won?'......
Come on now, that's just bollox. Did you not see the back pages of all the tabloids over the last couple of days?
I wanted him to succeed but it's not going to happen...get rid
As well as load of comments about how incredibly fecking gormless Phelan is looking behind him. The same Phelan whose departure apparently crippled us.
I rank it up there with, "he only started on the 1st July."
Media are turning but the club aren't unfortunately. Doesn't make sense that he gets a completely free ride at one of the biggest clubs in the world where the stakes are so high. We're not just throwing away chance of future successes with Moyes in charge but millions of pounds as well.
Even then his phone and internet connection weren't working in his office, so take that into account
He's not a risk taker in any sense.
He doesn't go for players, he iClouds them for months, which ultimately fecked up our transfer window.
He doesn't pick teams to go for the jugular, he wants to keep things tight, defend well and nick a win.
His tactics aren't bold, brave or inventive, they're conventional and functional, playing the percentage game.
He'll always go for the "safe" solution, which means ultimately your team won't be the best - it never can be because you're not giving your top talent the platform to express themselves. You're in reality limiting your world class talent.
And, people who doesn't take risks doesn't tend to win. Not at this level.
He doesn't go for players, he iClouds them for months, which ultimately fecked up our transfer window.
He doesn't pick teams to go for the jugular, he wants to keep things tight, defend well and nick a win.
His tactics aren't bold, brave or inventive, they're conventional and functional, playing the percentage game.
He'll always go for the "safe" solution, which means ultimately your team won't be the best - it never can be because you're not giving your top talent the platform to express themselves. You're in reality limiting your world class talent.
And, people who doesn't take risks doesn't tend to win. Not at this level.
I should be screaming Moyes Out - but I have said before that he should be given at least until september/october this year. How absurd it may sound - I still think we are only 2-3 players away from being up there again, and he deserves the chance to find those players before we possibly let him go.
So I guess I have accept being called Bagdad Bob or worse....
So I guess I have accept being called Bagdad Bob or worse....
I have no confidence in us winning any game just now. Genuinely expect us to slide further down the table and get a heavy beating or two this month. Absolutely staggering how much the confidence has been drained out of the team and fans. I really think he needs to go, the sooner the better. He isn't a bad manager at all but seems completely incompatible as he just hasn't been able to get anything out of this team.
I really thought he would guide us to a top 3 finish and make us a solid team with lots of energy and pressing. As it stands the season had been a shambles and the team completely lack enthusiasm and determination. They need somebody who can get them believing in themselves and firing again and Moyes seems like he isn't that man.
I really thought he would guide us to a top 3 finish and make us a solid team with lots of energy and pressing. As it stands the season had been a shambles and the team completely lack enthusiasm and determination. They need somebody who can get them believing in themselves and firing again and Moyes seems like he isn't that man.
We were no players away from being up there when he took over. In fact, he's added to that pool of talent with £64 millions worth of talent, including our fecking club record signing.
Why should David Moyes, on the face of what we've seen so far, be the one who identifies those two or three players? What on earth has he done to earn that trust?
In fact, what on God's green earth did he do to earn this chance as United manager? You could pick 100 managers with a better CV than him.
I'd much rather see that than him slumping in his chair with his head in his hands.
They've been together on the pitch for a whole 90 minutes so far this season so that's one stick he really should not get beaten with.
He's still added to the squad that were reigning champions by a country mile.
It's his own fault he panicked into buying Fellaini instead of a proper midfielder. I doubt we would be much better off with him injury free this season, in fact the win against Palace was the first we've won in the league with him starting. Imagine that!
Now, my point being this: I wouldn't trust him with significant funds this summer, based on what he's shown himself to stand for as a manager.
Compared to the way they ripped into Hodgson, AVB and even Wenger to name a few the man is lucky to have just been regarded 'clueless' for the first after his 11th defeat of the season.
Not that I want to see him torn apart I'm just shocked at the lack of it because it's really not been that bad and it's taken 7 months for anything to be written.
Don't forget Januzaj.