The reality is I've no feckin' idea what we're going to do from here 'til the end of the season. We could lose all twelve to be honest.
Moyes has to go
- Thread starter Orton
- Start date
Feckin' iPad man.
"And there's David Moyes in his research bunker, sleeping in an oxygen tent, which we believe gives him sexual powers"
I really can't begrudge the schadenfreude you scousers are enjoying but the reality is you are two big bids in the summer away from being a mid table club again. Liverpool dont have the tools to chase premier leagues and champions leagues every year so enjoy this season while you can.
The very first line of that video, when Fergie says the important part of management is making unpopular decisions but believing in yourself and knowing you are right, that's just something that Moyes doesn't do. First thing that pops in my head was when Moyes said he was planning to take off RVP after 60 minutes but then decided not to because the supporters would have been pissed off.
Then again though, he is sticking with Valencia and Young all the time which is more then unpopular..
"And there's David Moyes in his research bunker, sleeping in an oxygen tent, which we believe gives him sexual powers"
Christ.I know that feel. YAWN, mate.
I think this 6 second video sums it all up really
Moyes' bunker doesn't look very cosy:
Moyes' bunker doesn't look very cosy:
We couldn't afford a whiteboard after the Fellaini transfer.
I see the biggest problem in Moyes attracting ANY kind of star players. Mata was desperate to join us because he was in a messy situation. A player that is too good to be on the bench and went to the only club that wanted and could afford him. I mean the previous saga showed that it's not easy for us to land our targets. Even as the best adress in the EPL and with a legendary manager we got beaten again and again for the best signings. So Moyes could very well be used from all those top players who want to join us just to get better contracts elsewhere, or where they are.
We don't have CL football, a struggling manager and other clubs offer more money. It's sad but it's the way it is. What would we do if Moyes fails again in the summer? Wasting funds on players that are 2nd/3rd rate on his list, because he knows he needs them? I'm sorry but right now I simply don't see the logic behind a good player wanting to join us, if he has the same offer elsewhere.
We don't have CL football, a struggling manager and other clubs offer more money. It's sad but it's the way it is. What would we do if Moyes fails again in the summer? Wasting funds on players that are 2nd/3rd rate on his list, because he knows he needs them? I'm sorry but right now I simply don't see the logic behind a good player wanting to join us, if he has the same offer elsewhere.
Man City, Liverpool and Tottenham have managed to attract players that would walk into our first team currently when they didn't have Champions League football, stability, or a great manager at the helm.
Champions League is not the be all and end all on a players mind. Some players it is (Hazard), some players it is the money (all of City's squad) and some players are able to see a project being put together (Liverpool, Tottenham).
I don't understand the notion that without the Champions League we're going to having to be delving into the relegation fodder for players. We'll still attract the best, it's up to us to sell them the project and future.
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"Shattered Old Trafford empire" We're in deep shit but for feck sake...
So which players did Tottenham and Liverpool actually attract. Liverpool got lucky with Sturridge and Coutinho, other than that they bought mostly shit in the last few years. Tottenham bought some good players, but their record signings are failing quite badly. Loldado is making Fellaini looking like a good investment and Lamela can't mostly even get into the squad. They developed some world class players like Bale and Modric but they haven't bought one. The only one with genuine quality they wanted to buy ditched them for CL football in Willian.
We'll attract good players, no doubt about that. But for the first time in Club history we need ready world class players, to swiftly get us back where we belong. Tottenham is the perfect example. They spend 100m on players that many, myself included, thought that would be very good additions and make them a serious top4 candidate. The only 2 signings they got right were Paulinho and Eriksen, one they snatched very early and the other wasn't wanted by one of the big clubs in Europe. That's what happens when you need to pay over the odds for players that simply aren't THAT good. But they had the Bale fee so it won't hurt them much.
There are many players available that can improve us, but only a few that can bring us back to the top, the ones we need to target this summer. I'm more a believer of developing talent but this time we really need some serious quality, which means not good but really world class players.
We'll be getting City's Chelsea's and probably even Arsenal's left overs.
You're arguing for Tottenham and Liverpool? Willian and Salah couldn't run quick enough away from them when Chelsea opened their door..
That's because Chelsea offered them more money most likely and of course playing for Mourinho.
If we get a big name in to replace Moyes then we could attract players.
Times saying 5 more games for Moyes:
Ogden saying the same: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...-increasing-pressure-after-latest-defeat.html
Of course, which is why we must sack him before next Summer.
Yep. I said for a long time that I didn't think that we'd get rid of Moyes even if he failed to make the Champions League. But I think none of us expected it to be this bad, and we atleast hoped for some positives.
It's a weird one, because Ferguson is stubborn and has a massive ego and I felt it was a huge stumbling block for getting rid of Moyes.
However, he's gone back on his word a number of times. He told us he wouldn't sell to Madrid, he told us there was no chance of Veron leaving etc.
I can see it being 5 matches too.. West Brom, Liverpool, Olympiakos, West Ham, Manchester City. There's a strong possibility of us going out to Olympiakos even if we win that game, a defeat to either Liverpool or City could easily mean he goes.
I would be interested in seeing a poll or do we think he will be fired this season/end of, or if he has another year. It wasn't long ago that we all thought he'd get a 2nd year whatever, but I know that I'm starting to question that, and actually don't believe they will have the patience after all.
It's a weird one, because Ferguson is stubborn and has a massive ego and I felt it was a huge stumbling block for getting rid of Moyes.
However, he's gone back on his word a number of times. He told us he wouldn't sell to Madrid, he told us there was no chance of Veron leaving etc.
I can see it being 5 matches too.. West Brom, Liverpool, Olympiakos, West Ham, Manchester City. There's a strong possibility of us going out to Olympiakos even if we win that game, a defeat to either Liverpool or City could easily mean he goes.
I would be interested in seeing a poll or do we think he will be fired this season/end of, or if he has another year. It wasn't long ago that we all thought he'd get a 2nd year whatever, but I know that I'm starting to question that, and actually don't believe they will have the patience after all.
I haven't been this furious at our club ever. EVERYONE in the world knew he was the wrong appointment. Manchester United... a WINNING MACHINE, hires someone who has won NOTHING.
Makes a lot of fuking sense.
Makes a lot of fuking sense.
I know Pellegrini technically has trophies.. but in terms of relative to United, you would probably still label that as nothing, right? If he had had his managerial career in England at a club like Everton, is there anything to suggest he would have won anything at all like Moyes, not really.
He seems to have been the right appointment for City though. And yes, I understand that they have a better squad and he's not following on from Ferguson, but the point remains.
Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich, AC Milan, Inter Milan, Juventus etc. - all the big teams in Europe have hired managers who have won nothing, or atleast nothing on a similar scale.
Are you serious? Pellegrini has tactical awareness. If Moyes managed City, he would manage to fuk them up as well. He's just not good. Pellegrini has managed a big team as well before city. Arguably the biggest club in the world.
Moyes? Moyes has managed a tiny club called Everton.
Ok.. so when 'arguably the biggest club in the world' hired Pellegrini - who had he managed? I tell you this, no team bigger than 'tiny' Everton.
I'm not saying it was the right decision, it clearly wasn't in hindsight (I know many had concerns at the start of course). I'm just saying, every big club in the world has hired managers who had won feck all (of note in comparison to us) previously.
Grant and De Matteo for Chelsea for starters.
Neither Grant nor Di Matteo were 'hired' in the traditional sense. They were both given the job while working at the club in a different role.
Grant and Di Matteo took over the ship. Bit like Neville or Round would if we sacked Moyes.
My biggest worry is that he'll get rid of players that can do a job for us. We look worse now than we did at the start of the season. SAF's style has slowly dissolved to be replaced by what? What is our style?
I have changed camp. I thought about giving a chance to build but I've lost all confidence in him now.
I have changed camp. I thought about giving a chance to build but I've lost all confidence in him now.
Ronaldo's Mum Eh is saying that somebody who hasn't won trophies is obviously unsuitable for the role of manager. I don't see how that changes whether they were hired from within or externally. Perhaps if it was a case of hiring some club legend who has played at the club for a long time or been in the backroom staff for a lengthy period - though I would only accept this in exceptional cases.
I'm not sure 6 months/1 year of working at the club suddenly change whether or not their lack of trophies makes them suitable.
You can keep trying to pick faults with particular examples, but there are loads of examples. In fact, all of them have hired a manager who haven't won anything (or atleast not at the top level) and then done it again, and perhaps again.
Grant did much better than Moyes. Wonder why he didn't need to "build his own team first". And Di Matteo was only a temp, and still did better than Moyes!
We're not discussing this one day after appointing Moyes. We're now almost through a whole season of disasters. Even the most creative excuse-finders are running out of excuses now.
Ok. So Pellegrini at Madrid? Or Quieroz? Or Luxembergo? Or Schuster.
Pretty sure there are more too..
I was responding to this notion that United were idiots for hiring a manager who hadn't won anything of note, or managed a big club, and that 'everybody' knew it was a mistake.
It's bollocks. Just because it hasn't worked out and he is clearly wrong for the job, that doesn't mean that it was some ridiculous thinking from United which no other club would have done.
Practically every other big club has done it and will continue to do it.
Madrid go through managers like toilet paper. Not the best example to use. Do you not find it a bit weird hiring a manager who has won nothing to steady an empire?
I think Neville and Round, well Round at least, would be out out too if we sacked Moyes. I'd hope that United would bring in a caretaker until the end of the season and spend the time from now until then reading CVs.
And they sack the winners as well. Now that is madness.
I think most people think it was the wrong decision because we did have a better/safer alternative in somebody who is already established as one of the best managers out there, who incidentally wanted to join us as well. However, we chose take a risk. We gambled.
And it didn't pay off.
They are absolutey brimming with confidence which you can't underestimate.
Neither Grant nor Di Matteo needed £100m+ to 'create their own squad', and both reached a CL final, with one winning it.
Moyes has had £70m injected into the squad, and he's had a crack at all 4 competitions - PL, FA, CoC and CL - and he's bombed out of each one spectacularly (CL tie is all but gone imo). On top of that, he's played absolutely awful, joyless football and shown a level of tactical capability far more suited to a mid-table PL team than an Elite club (which we are).
6 months to a year is certainly long enough to see whether a manager has brought some positive change to a club. It's certainly enough time to stand back and say, 'ok, what's their direction?'.
The excuses have all been trotted out, one by one, by the sorry pro-Moyes sect, and there's no doubt now - the emperor has no clothes on.
The only question now is shall we throw so much money at him that eventually he ends up buying some pants and managing to put them on...or should we wrap him up in a warm towel, send him home and hire a new emperor that's already dressed?
Who's this then?
I think we could definitely have got someone with a more impressive cv than Moyes, but the best out there have other commitments.