The past is the past. I don't want to talk about it now, because everybody will be a genius in retrospect.
What we should worry about now is the future, and I think it would be best for us if Moyes didn't feature in it.
Moyes has to go
- Thread starter Orton
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What we should worry about now is the future, and I think it would be best for us if Moyes didn't feature in it.
Would that it was just the one awful result, or two or three for that matter.
One aspect which that piece does acknowledge, are the dangers inherent of a great many changes to a squad. If Dave is incapable of coaching these players to their potential then one must ask why he'll be any better with others.
Who would you like me to use?
Juventus? Conte, Delneri, Ranieri
Inter? Gasperini, Leonardo, Mazzarri
Milan? Seedorf, Leonardo, Allegri
Sometimes you can make a case that they were an ex-player but even so, there are too many time. These are all recent enough too, not like I had to search through years and years and pull our a few names. Not that them being an ex player changes things all that much most of the time.
What has their end result got to do with them getting the chance in the first place??!!
How many times do I have to say, I'm not excusing Moyes or saying it was the right decision. I'm simply against the notion that it was ridiculous to hire a manager who had won nothing of note previously when all the big teams have done it more than once.
Except that this is all conjecture and actually we know feck all about whether Mourinho actually wanted the job or why he didn't get it.
...or 4, or 5, or 6, or... ah I can't be fukked. Just sack him.
Moyes had sat at a mid-table PL club for 12 years though, Alock. 12 years. Won nothing, developed no brand of top level worthy football.
That's why SO MANY fans predicted exactly what would happen here.
None of the examples you've given above are comparable to hiring Moyes.
Your argument, and your examples would hold ground if we'd hired a Martinez, or a Pochettino and were waiting for them to begin showing what we'd seen elsewhere.
Moyes is showing what we'd seen elsewhere - we're basically Everton, but without the grafters to pull it off.
What are you talking about, some of the managers hired by other teams hadn't managed a club even mid-table in a top league. Seedorf hasn't managed anywhere, and I'm pretty sure Conte made the jump from Serie B to Juventus manager (I appreciate he won Serie B). Bullshit. Many of the managers had won feck all, and had achieved much less than David Moyes had.
Everton were generally finishing 5th or 6th under Moyes so I'm not sure that mid-table does that justice.
Not many people managed to constantly be rebuilding a team and keep it doing well for a long period of time. Isn't that what we all thought was (one of) Fergie's greatest strengths and what made him such a great manager?
They played the most suitable football they could to match the budget, personnel, league. I don't believe that Moyes could have played better football and managed to have them finish so high each season. You can argue that they maybe should have won a cup or two in that time, but does winning a cup or two really mean they are more suitable to managing Manchester United? I'm not so sure that winning the League Cup or FA Cup really mark a great manager if I'm honest. Should he have won the league with Everton in that time? I can't believe anybody thinks he should have. And I can't believe that people think he should have finished higher than he did in the majority of seasons he was there.
I had my concerns about Moyes too and I have talked about them. I was hoping for a Mourinho, Klopp etc. like most of us. But I still appreciate the reasons why we hired him, and can understand the faith shown in him and I don't think that hiring a manager who hadn't won anything is out of the ordinary at all for a big club. Infact, it most definitely isn't out of the ordinary.
Everton were generally finishing 5th or 6th under Moyes so I'm not sure that mid-table does that justice.
Not many people managed to constantly be rebuilding a team and keep it doing well for a long period of time. Isn't that what we all thought was (one of) Fergie's greatest strengths and what made him such a great manager?
They played the most suitable football they could to match the budget, personnel, league. I don't believe that Moyes could have played better football and managed to have them finish so high each season. You can argue that they maybe should have won a cup or two in that time, but does winning a cup or two really mean they are more suitable to managing Manchester United? I'm not so sure that winning the League Cup or FA Cup really mark a great manager if I'm honest. Should he have won the league with Everton in that time? I can't believe anybody thinks he should have. And I can't believe that people think he should have finished higher than he did in the majority of seasons he was there.
I had my concerns about Moyes too and I have talked about them. I was hoping for a Mourinho, Klopp etc. like most of us. But I still appreciate the reasons why we hired him, and can understand the faith shown in him and I don't think that hiring a manager who hadn't won anything is out of the ordinary at all for a big club. Infact, it most definitely isn't out of the ordinary.
Does anyone recognise the name?
At least one journo can't claim to be unaware of wider fan opinion.
Wow...good job the Moyes poll on here was sabotaged eh?
You misunderstood my point. I'm not arguing that this Liverpool team could thrash us. I just think the one in 2009 was better personally.
I wouldn't say Liverpool got lucky with Coutinho nor Sturridge, you're using this 'luck' to attempt to back up your argument. They're both players who would have enough quality to improve our team. The one player you totally forget to mention is the best player in the Premier League currently, Suarez. He was a big name and went for alot of money, they were able to attract and have also kept hold of him during a spell of no Champions League football.
Just because Soldado and Lemela are not performing how they should, doesn't change the fact that they were attracted to Tottenham FC. This is the whole point of our discussion, not their seasons performance. Other players who Tottenham have who would walk into our squad and who they purchased are: Sandro, Eriksen, Paulinho, Vertonghen, Lloris (no as good as De Gea, but they still managed to attract the French captain). That's a lot of players who I would take in our playing squad.
I wouldn't say there are 'only a few who bring us back to the top'. That would imply 3/4 players in world football. There are 50+ players who would improve us, clearly.
Prety sure it's down to money with those players.
I think some fans are forgetting just how big a club Manchester United is. We'll attract the best players, stop whining, we're not going to be scrapping for the 'left overs'. 1 bad season and you think we're midtable quality.
Agreed.
Was thinking the same thing yesterday.
With Moyes in charge, us finishing the season 6th-8th, and no champions league football next season, it will take an extremely delusional fan to think that we would be able to compete with Chelsea and City for world class players in the Summer.
If we sack Moyes, we'd still have a chance.
I'm arguin that Champions League football is not needed to attract the top players, not the fact Moyes is our manager or not. I personally don't want him to be, but I still don't see us having a problem improving the team in the summer, with or without Moyes.
I agree that maybe we'd attract a different type of player should we opt for a more glamorous forgeign manager though.
What players we have is irrelevant with David Moyes in charge. We could have Bayerns squad and he wouldn't have us in the top four.
He doesn't have the guts, mentality or ability to manage a successful united team so what's the point in letting him try to create one? we'll just be left picking up the pieces further down the road.
I'm not letting him do anything, it's not my fault we're shit.
My point is that we're still going to attract the best players. Whether they perform or not is not my job, it's the incompetant manager we currently are employing. If it was up to me I wouldn't let him spend another penny, but instead be shown the door come the end of the season.
Everything factors in. Club stature, winning chances, champions league football, quality of the squad, and the manager all have an effect on players' choices.
We are a big club. We have a very good squad. But with no champions league football, no real chance of winning a major trophy and with Moyes in charge, those two positives are extremely outweighed by the negatives.
Replacing Moyes will give more hope to the newcomers that a- we (might) have a competent manager whom they can trust. b- we can contend again for trophies under the new manager. Those two things (together with our stature as a big club) can convince some world class players to come to us, even if clubs like Chelsea and City show interest, and even with no champions league football for us.
This may be true for some players, but the further away we get from the champions league, like the longer we go without it, the worse off the quality of players we'll be able to bring in. If players see us bring in another world class player or 2 this summer, along with Mata and then having Rooney and RVP, and we still struggle to get top 4 yet Moyes is no closer to the exit door, why would they come? Sure we can offer big wages but right now its not a big problem because its all still short term and there is hope that Moyes will leave relatively soon. The longer he stays though, the further away we get from coming back and that is when we might start having problems with getting back into Europe and attracting the top players.
Some players just care about money to be fair, these are not the players I'd want at our club, but it's the truth. Throw enough money at them and they'll come, it's human nature to be attracted to money IMO.
I do hope we replace him with the correct person, whether that happens or not depends largely on the fans I believe. I don't think the board are going to sack him if the fans are not showing any detest against Moyes. As soon as we actively show our destest of him, the board will begin to listen. At the end of the day, fans make a football club, so we could break it as well.
I dont even think we need to be buying world class players..
I don't think we should get more mediocre players either but why world class?
Matic or Fernandinho would have been good enough. Are they world class? Rakitic, Bender - these players would improve us and be good enough for a top team.
Obviously I want the best possible but if we miss out on the very best then I don't believe its a disaster at all.
I don't think we should get more mediocre players either but why world class?
Matic or Fernandinho would have been good enough. Are they world class? Rakitic, Bender - these players would improve us and be good enough for a top team.
Obviously I want the best possible but if we miss out on the very best then I don't believe its a disaster at all.
I agree, except I wouldn't even give him until the end of the season. The sooner we move on and put this all behind us the better, really.
Yeah, but the problem is, that doesn't give us an advantage when we go against City or Chelsea.
I agree about the second part. I don't think the club is planning on sacking him in the Summer. I think only the fans and the players can change that.
Fergie had a hard time attracting "top" players, so it's hard to see how Moyes can.
Mata was a wonderful buy but his was an unusual circumstance.
Mata was a wonderful buy but his was an unusual circumstance.
Correct.
I'm not interested in giving money to Moyes to spend on developing young players to sell for a profit.
The purpose of United's existence is to play exciting football and to fill trophy cabinets, not to be a midtable feeder club.
We can get top players. What we need is a top manager.
I think going out of the CL could be the final straw, so to speak. It may start the gears moving towards looking for a replacement. Whether that happens behind the scenes whilst Moyes is still in charge, I don't know.
Agreed, City or Chelsea do have the advantage in that regards, but that is only because under Sir Alex we refused to pay the going rate for the top top bracket players. That may change.
Unfortunately any manager that we need to replace this clown in the summer will not be available. Even Laurent Blanc is looking like a class above Moyes and he is not available anymore. I have a feeling that Carlos Queiroz will be back in the summer to work as a number 2 for clueless Moyes under the orders of Fergie. That could give Moyes a chance to rebuild the mess he has made. I just don't see any manager that would be available in the summer who could save us. None of Klopp, Mourinho, Pep, Ancelotti, Blanc etc will be available
The Independent saying he as twelve games to get his act together.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...-still-the-right-man-for-the-job-9155916.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...-still-the-right-man-for-the-job-9155916.html
You keep mentioning the Italian clubs while omitting the fact that
a) managers in Italy has very limited control compared to their British collegues. They dont decide which players to bring in, which positions need to be strengthened and in some cases their authority to choose the most appropriate formation is challenged.
b) The Italian clubs has run out of money.
Hiddink, Simeone, Bielsa are all better then the chosen one.
Bayern, Madrid and Barcelona too.
Hell, we should ask Rooney to get his old high school coach in who's also his Dads mate. No other club would have a trophyless David Moyes. But a star players Dad's mate? Works a treat.
I'm firmly in the Moyes Out camp but I'd love to see him stay and turn it out around purely to spite Daniel Taylor, the fecking prick.
He's been absolutely desperate for Moyes to flop all season, just because his darling Mourinho was overlooked.
I think Moyes would be farrrrr too stubborn to bring a coach in like Queiroz who he didn't personally ask for, (Not that I personally would be against the idea coming to fruition), think he's going to live an die surrounded by "his own people"
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We're just delaying the inevitable by refusing to pull the trigger and the longer he stays at the club the longer he'll hurt us. The Glazers are now bordering on neglegence.
Also, it's been quite ironic hearing Moyes bemoan his luck all season, when in reality he's one of the luckiest cnuts in football. Firstly, he landed one of the biggest jobs without really being qualified and secondly there's absolutely no chance he'd have survived this long at any other top club following this string of results and performances.
Also, it's been quite ironic hearing Moyes bemoan his luck all season, when in reality he's one of the luckiest cnuts in football. Firstly, he landed one of the biggest jobs without really being qualified and secondly there's absolutely no chance he'd have survived this long at any other top club following this string of results and performances.
I don't know, may be ask Alock1?
May be that's why Moyes is called "The Chosen One"?
However, I agree, Mourinho's statements about wanting to join United were too difficult to decipher. Too difficult, that the Guardian published this article after we appointed Moyes..
José Mourinho 'cried' after being overlooked for Manchester United job
Are you acting dumb on purpose?
I dont know alot about bayern so i wont comment about that. The spanish clubs however see their manager position as a role with limited power (the president is the person who make the shots like bringing the players he wants etc) and who can easily be replaced
That contrasts greatly with our mentality were the manager is the center of everything and endless patience is shown to him. Do you thing the chosen one would still be in his job if he brought real to a historical 7th place?
Rooney is on £300k, no? I doubt many players at Chelsea and City are on that kind of money.
United can compete with big wages, they have the means to and Rooney's new contract shows this. Having said that they would be much more diligent about it and I doubt they would pay overs just to bring someone in, which is exactly what the Oils do.