Moyes has to go

Moyes out?

  • Knee jerk/I object to the term knee jerk because I told you he was going to be rubbish in 2003

    Votes: 296 80.4%

  • Head in sand/My name is Baghdad Bob and everything is going to be OK

    Votes: 72 19.6%
  • Total voters
    368
  • Poll closed .
"We came into the game in good form and a good mindset but it just didn't show."


Just seen this from Moyes.

Is he fecking mental? How can he say that winning 3 of our last 9 is good form? 2 Draws and 4 losses.

If he's talking about the Crystal Palace game, he replaced one of our best performers in Fellaini with a completely different player in Cleverley (a player that has been terrible all season) and the reason we were so good was because we had a dynamic front 4 and while he had to take one of them out replacing both of the wide men with two completely different and inferior players and he expected to get the same results? He replaced the two most important positions in his system with inferior players.


The man is a fecking retard.
 
Dominos said:
From everything we've heard, it looks like the board have already settled on letting him rebuild the squad in the summer. Presumably that will involve him getting rid of any players that aren't too fond of him.

He's going to do untold damage to this football club before he leaves, I dread to think the state we'll be in when it finally dawns on the people in charge that he's not good enough.
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He is not going to do untold damage ffs. Get a fecking grip.

I was on the fence before, but I think the drama queens are pushing me back towards the #supportmoyes camp
 
17 Van Der Gouw said:
What a bunch of spoilt, dribbling, glory hunting spastics you are. 3 years it took for Fergie to come good, you haven't even given Moyes a season and you're throwing your toys out of the pram. Most of you are armchair fans who have never been to a match, and sadly the Caf has in recent times become more and more the domain of muppets who'd rather we became a City style mercenary dream team with a soul-less big name manager at the top who would walk after 2 seasons.

I'm genuinely sick of RedCafe, the attitudes of those at the games are polls apart from the stagnant horseshit I read in here - and I can say that firsthand. United has a fantastic group of domestic supporters, but globally a bunch of angry glory demanding know-nothings who think throwing a glamorous big name manager at the club will solve the problem.

...and to those of you who level the term 'top.red' at me; why not go to an actual game and gauge the reaction from fans there, your constant anti Moyes droning will be in the minority. While you're at it, why not check out a game being played by your local team: I'm sure Delhi FC, LA Galaxy and Molde can all play some entertaining football.

Goodbye Caf. It was sound here until SAF left.
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Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
 
adexkola said:
He is not going to do untold damage ffs. Get a fecking grip.

I was on the fence before, but I think the drama queens are pushing me back towards the #supportmoyes camp
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He already has, truth be told. Give it another year and we'll have fallen further in the league standings, I'd put money on it.
 
This spoiled, non-match going, fair weather supporter, woke up, grasping for my phone to check for the news that either Moyes or United (or both) had decided to part ways.

Zero, zilch, nada, not one bit of progress from game to game. We see it in one and then regress even more than we gained the previous match. It's been that way all season. He just can't get the squad to play for him the way he should be able to.
 
I think we called his bluff. He was clearly expecting a cavalcade of "ah, perspective"'s and "good post"'s.
 
Crashoutcassius said:
he did a fanastic job at Everton for 11 years while being the only club in the league to make a transfer profit. He made 4th once, and when the billionaire clubs started to take of kept them around 5-6-7th. That's a good achievement. Logic says that he should do better with more money, without his best players being sold from under him every season, and with the allure to bring in better players. That's some logic for why I think he CAN do well.

I think the squad needs improving and needs to be geared towards how he wants to play. There's not a united fan alive who would claim we have good depth in defence or a centre midfield worthy of the top 4. That's the reason that I think it will improve.

We're adults here who can form our own opinions, but thinking that your opinion is more likely to be correct than SAFs is pretty dumb. I'm talking in probabilities here, not certainties - he's right more than you are about football more times out of 100
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Much better post then the other guy above :lol:..

On the Everton point I agree he did a very good job. However, he got them to 4th once and since then never improved at all. He didn't look to change the style of play, make it more exciting, attacking, and he never won any cups. That's what my problem with him was from the very start. He did do a good job at Everton, but it was through tactics that we'd all hate to see at united. He never showed he's a progressive, modern thinking manager who will get us playing exciting football. The trophies thing isn't really that important, but being at Everton for 10 years you surely would expect him to get something.

I agree that the squad needs improving, but our defence is definitely top 4, and our attack has the potential to be one of the best in the world. It's only the 2 midfielder positions that isn't very good, and moyes has spent 68m and still hasn't strengthened that properly.

Sir Alex picking him had a lot more to do with moyes being at Everton for 10 years, him being Scottish and sir Alex's friend. Nothing to prove the latter two, I just think there would be absolutely no chance moyes would be our manager if he was English even, or any other nationality. Sir Alex wanted to give him his break, unfortunately, and we all know how stubborn he is and he'll give him every chance to prove him right.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Yeah, I'd always been willing to let results slide this season. Even performances. Take a long term view and all that. Assumed the board would do the same.

I could never have imagined things would be this bad, though, in terms of results and performances. With each passing week we seem to plumb new depths. Which makes it very hard to stick to my guns. I'm sure there are members of the board going through a similar process. Just depends how many really.
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I hear ya - it's not easy being upbeat at the moment. But let's say certain players simply aren't pulling their weight, not a proper go-slow but a case of not being behind the man at all - I don't even want to speculate as to who the main culprits would be, but let's assume these are senior players on whom Moyes still relies, players that he can't just bench on principle for lack of alternatives, not least because it's not a matter of open mutiny.

Now, if he can get rid of these players come the end of the season - and get in some proper top class players, well...I think he deserves a chance. I think many severely underestimate how bloody difficult his job actually is. Turning things around will be doubly difficult if he has to rely on players who don't give 100% for him on the pitch.

It's still unclear to me what is what here. He isn't a terrible manager. We know this already. Is he, however, too small time to be a Manchester United manager - and is that the core of the problem? Perhaps. But this hasn't been proven yet as far as I'm concerned. The holes in our current squad aren't illusions. It's not an awful squad (and as far as I know there is no "brigade" who claim this) but it's definitely a flawed one. It needs some sorting out regardless of Moyes.

And losing certain "senior" players isn't proof that he's incompetent. Getting rid of such players can be vital for anyone who takes over a team managed by the same genius for 27 years.
 
Pexbo said:
"We came into the game in good form and a good mindset but it just didn't show."


Just seen this from Moyes.

Is he fecking mental? How can he say that winning 3 of our last 9 is good form? 2 Draws and 4 losses.

If he's talking about the Crystal Palace game, he replaced one of our best performers in Fellaini with a completely different player in Cleverley (a player that has been terrible all season) and the reason we were so good was because we had a dynamic front 4 and while he had to take one of them out replacing both of the wide men with two completely different and inferior players and he expected to get the same results? He replaced the two most important positions in his system with inferior players.


The man is a fecking retard.
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You're being a drama queen now. The last two games were reason enough to talk about good form and mindset. Clear signs of improvement. Back to square one now, obviously, but getting worked up about those comments is just being melodramatic.
 
I'm not sure why yesterday in particular did much to sway the public opinion? Even proven pro-Moyes supporters like @Pogue Mahone have seemingly started to wander over to the "sack him"-camp, but why? It was just another poor result, another uninspiring performance, in a season of those. That's our level and there's been hardly anything to suggest Moyes will ever learn before last night.

So why did people change their opinions because of one first leg defeat in a competition we'll never win either way? What was different with yesterday? Genuine question, not wumming.

My point is I guess is that while I'm starting to be convinced that Moyes will never be a United level manager, I'm slightly surprised that yesterday was the tipping point for so many, seemingly.
 
17 Van Der Gouw said:
What a bunch of spoilt, dribbling, glory hunting spastics you are. 3 years it took for Fergie to come good, you haven't even given Moyes a season and you're throwing your toys out of the pram. Most of you are armchair fans who have never been to a match, and sadly the Caf has in recent times become more and more the domain of muppets who'd rather we became a City style mercenary dream team with a soul-less big name manager at the top who would walk after 2 seasons.

I'm genuinely sick of RedCafe, the attitudes of those at the games are polls apart from the stagnant horseshit I read in here - and I can say that firsthand. United has a fantastic group of domestic supporters, but globally a bunch of angry glory demanding know-nothings who think throwing a glamorous big name manager at the club will solve the problem.

...and to those of you who level the term 'top.red' at me; why not go to an actual game and gauge the reaction from fans there, your constant anti Moyes droning will be in the minority. While you're at it, why not check out a game being played by your local team: I'm sure Delhi FC, LA Galaxy and Molde can all play some entertaining football.

Goodbye Caf. It was sound here until SAF left.
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Good riddance. That has to be one of the most sanctimonious, arrogant splurges of bile I've had the misfortune to read in a while. Nobody informed me that I lost my right to an opinion the moment I moved too far away to be a regular match goer. Luckily, I still have the likes of you to show me how to be a proper fan.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
I hear ya - it's not easy being upbeat at the moment. But let's say certain players simply aren't pulling their weight, not a proper go-slow but a case of not being behind the man at all - I don't even want to speculate as to who the main culprits would be, but let's assume these are senior players on whom Moyes still relies, players that he can't just bench on principle for lack of alternatives, not least because it's not a matter of open mutiny.

Now, if he can get rid of these players come the end of the season - and get in some proper top class players, well...I think he deserves a chance. I think many severely underestimate how bloody difficult his job actually is. Turning things around will be doubly difficult if he has to rely on players who don't give 100% for him on the pitch.

It's still unclear to me what is what here. He isn't a terrible manager. We know this already. Is he, however, too small time to be a Manchester United manager - and is that the core of the problem? Perhaps. But this hasn't been proven yet as far as I'm concerned. The holes in our current squad aren't illusions. It's not an awful squad (and as far as I know there is no "brigade" who claim this) but it's definitely a flawed one. It needs some sorting out regardless of Moyes.

And losing certain "senior" players isn't proof that he's incompetent. Getting rid of such players can be vital for anyone who takes over a team managed by the same genius for 27 years.
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I think that is all fair. Once I've cooled off a bit I'll probably feel less negative and have a bit more perspective.
 
marjen said:
I'm not sure why yesterday in particular did much to sway the public opinion? Even proven pro-Moyes supporters like @Pogue Mahone have seemingly started to wander over to the "sack him"-camp, but why? It was just another poor result, another uninspiring performance, in a season of those. That's our level and there's been hardly anything to suggest Moyes will ever learn before last night.

So why did people change their opinions because of one first leg defeat in a competition we'll never win either way? What was different with yesterday? Genuine question, not wumming.

My point is I guess is that while I'm starting to be convinced that Moyes will never be a United level manager, I'm slightly surprised that yesterday was the tipping point for so many, seemingly.
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Because every time it looks like he might be learning something from what has gone before, it turns out he hasnt. Which makes you wonder, why would it be any different next season.

You are right in a way, but it is like Chinese water torture. Each blow is insignificant on its own but eventually the accumulated effect gets too much to bear.
 
marjen said:
I'm not sure why yesterday in particular did much to sway the public opinion? Even proven pro-Moyes supporters like @Pogue Mahone have seemingly started to wander over to the "sack him"-camp, but why? It was just another poor result, another uninspiring performance, in a season of those. That's our level and there's been hardly anything to suggest Moyes will ever learn before last night.

So why did people change their opinions because of one first leg defeat in a competition we'll never win either way? What was different with yesterday? Genuine question, not wumming.

My point is I guess is that while I'm starting to be convinced that Moyes will never be a United level manager, I'm slightly surprised that yesterday was the tipping point for so many, seemingly.
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One false dawn too many. It's the hope that hurts.
 
marjen said:
I'm not sure why yesterday in particular did much to sway the public opinion? Even proven pro-Moyes supporters like @Pogue Mahone have seemingly started to wander over to the "sack him"-camp, but why? It was just another poor result, another uninspiring performance, in a season of those. That's our level and there's been hardly anything to suggest Moyes will ever learn before last night.

So why did people change their opinions because of one first leg defeat in a competition we'll never win either way? What was different with yesterday? Genuine question, not wumming.

My point is I guess is that while I'm starting to be convinced that Moyes will never be a United level manager, I'm slightly surprised that yesterday was the tipping point for so many, seemingly.
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Nah, Yesterday was a much, much worse performance than anything we've seen so far - and in fact, anything I've ever seen from a Manchester United side. It was well and truly awful in almost every single way.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
You're being a drama queen now. The last two games were reason enough to talk about good form and mindset. Clear signs of improvement. Back to square one now, obviously, but getting worked up about those comments is just being melodramatic.
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We attack down the wings, that's the only place we actually attack and instead of replacing like for like with Kagawa for Mata and setting up with the same tactics and team, he replaced both with completely different and hugely inferior players, switched back to a 4-4-2 and expected up to carry "good form" forward?

Give me a break.
 
I'll check in here as well. Yesterday was the tipping point for me too. Not that I don't see him stay possibly, but it would be wrong
 
Ixion said:
uhku.png
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:lol:
 
Pogue Mahone said:
One false dawn too many. It's the hope that hurts.
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I sort of understand that one. I guess I've been at this stage for quite a while, based on his previous learning curve at Everton.

For what it's worth I do agree with you that the biggest problem with our 2014 form is that the players clearly aren't buying whatever he's trying to sell them. They've seemingly got no heart.

But that begs the question - why should they, on the evidence of what's been on display?

After all they're all proven winners - it's the manager that's got the question marks hanging over his name, from their perspective and from the fans' perspective.
 
Pexbo said:
We attack down the wings, that's the only place we actually attack and instead of replacing like for like with Kagawa for Mata and setting up with the same tactics and team, he replaced both with completely different and hugely inferior players, switched back to a 4-4-2 and expected up to carry "good form" forward?

Give me a break.
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Er, what? Don't go noodle on me. He said we went into the game with good form and a good mindset. This is true of our last two performances (with different line-ups in each). Hence his comments were not unreasonable. Certainly not reason enough to call him a "fecking retard" for saying them.
 
marjen said:
I'm not sure why yesterday in particular did much to sway the public opinion? Even proven pro-Moyes supporters like @Pogue Mahone have seemingly started to wander over to the "sack him"-camp, but why? It was just another poor result, another uninspiring performance, in a season of those. That's our level and there's been hardly anything to suggest Moyes will ever learn before last night.

So why did people change their opinions because of one first leg defeat in a competition we'll never win either way? What was different with yesterday? Genuine question, not wumming.

My point is I guess is that while I'm starting to be convinced that Moyes will never be a United level manager, I'm slightly surprised that yesterday was the tipping point for so many, seemingly.
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I think it was because a lot of people had gotten their hopes up (following Palace/Arsenal). There was even a few people suggesting we could pull off an unlikely challenge for the CL. To then see such a limp and pathetic performance last night was just too much to take.
 
Crashoutcassius said:
lol at basically everyone in this thread. We lose away in europe and suddenly moyes is worse than trapatonni and laudrup
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So it's "lol" at 28 pages of posts because of two names mentioned in a list of 40? And one of those names, while way past his best, was at his peak a great name of European football - to paraphrase Mohammed Ali, if Moyes even dreams he is as good as Trap, he should wake up and apologise. As for Laudrup, he has at least won a trophy in England, defeating Chelsea en route - compare that to Everton's pathetic capitulation to Wigan last year or to King Kenny's woeful Liverpool the year before. Not that I want either of them - one thing we can agree.
 
Pexbo said:
"We came into the game in good form and a good mindset but it just didn't show."


Just seen this from Moyes.

Is he fecking mental? How can he say that winning 3 of our last 9 is good form? 2 Draws and 4 losses.

If he's talking about the Crystal Palace game, he replaced one of our best performers in Fellaini with a completely different player in Cleverley (a player that has been terrible all season) and the reason we were so good was because we had a dynamic front 4 and while he had to take one of them out replacing both of the wide men with two completely different and inferior players and he expected to get the same results? He replaced the two most important positions in his system with inferior players.


The man is a fecking retard.
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I doubt he was talking about the form from the last nine games lol

I think the thinking with the lineup was obvious, or should be obvious- that was our best defensive side out there injuries aside. Most of those players did a good job against a far better away side in Arsenal. I think the idea of correct, just jesus a shocking performance - missed mata a lot trying to go forward
 
Keenst said:
I think it was because a lot of people had gotten their hopes up (following Palace). There was even a few people suggesting we could pull off an unlikely challenge for the CL. To then see such a limp and pathetic performance last night was just too much to take.
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I was at that stage when he spoke of his ambitions in the transfer market and of Fabregas, when he tried Nani and Kagawa for a couple of games, when we went on that run before christmas, and when Mata signed - only for my hopes to be crushed a game or two after.

I'm now at the stage whereby I'm just waiting it out. It's painful and I hope it happens quickly but he'll never get the players playing for him, and he lacks the nous, the ideas and the charisma to be United manager, sadly.
 
The path forward is to sack Moyes now and let Giggs be caretaker manager. Sack the rest of the coaching staff Moyes brought with except for the keeper coach and bring back Rene.

As for the summer, I have no idea who might be available but we should take a look at our options now rather than let Moyes get his hands on a massive warchest.

We cannot risk becoming the next Liverpool or Forest.
 
MoskvaRed said:
So it's "lol" at 28 pages of posts because of two names mentioned in a list of 40? And one of those names, while way past his best, was at his peak a great name of European football - to paraphrase Mohammed Ali, if Moyes even dreams he is as good as Trap, he should wake up and apologise. As for Laudrup, he has at least won a trophy in England, defeating Chelsea en route - compare that to Everton's pathetic capitulation to Wigan last year or to King Kenny's woeful Liverpool the year before. Not that I want either of them - one thing we can agree.
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I just picked out the 2 silliest name from the list - there are plenty of silly names on the list.

And yeah fair enough, I don't really mean everyone in the thread, just everyone recently posting 'oh yeah harry rednapp would be a great appointment...' because, no, he wouldn't be
 
Pogue Mahone said:
You're being a drama queen now. The last two games were reason enough to talk about good form and mindset. Clear signs of improvement. Back to square one now, obviously, but getting worked up about those comments is just being melodramatic.
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The last game was the only game that showed a change of plan, and I'm convinced that only happened because Moyes was resting his favorite players/tactics Valencia Young for the champions league game. We have become a laughing stock globally under Moyes, Olybiakos has to be one of the crappiest teams ever with players that wouldn't even make Fulham, they also lost their best 3 players before playing us and still made us look like amateurs. He has to go now not this summer.
 
Just watched the match again and believe me it's far worse second time round. We had no shape, none, the gap between the attack and midfield was enormous our defenders couldn't hold the line and our pressing play was non existent.
I still can't work out what our tactics were.
 
Crashoutcassius said:
I doubt he was talking about the form from the last nine games lol

I think the thinking with the lineup was obvious, or should be obvious- that was our best defensive side out there injuries aside. Most of those players did a good job against a far better away side in Arsenal. I think the idea of correct, just jesus a shocking performance - missed mata a lot trying to go forward
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Best defensive lineup. Away in Europe.

Does he not understand the importance of an away goal? a 4-3 loss is significantly better than a 2-1 loss. The fact we couldn't even get close to goal and it finished 2-0 says it all.
 
Gannicus said:
The path forward is to sack Moyes now and let Giggs be caretaker manager. Sack the rest of the coaching staff Moyes brought with except for the keeper coach and bring back Rene.

As for the summer, I have no idea who might be available but we should take a look at our options now rather than let Moyes get his hands on a massive warchest.

We cannot risk becoming the next Liverpool or Forest.
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what about how moyes has spent over his career makes you think he shouldn't be given money to spend?
 
Getsme said:
Just watched the match again and believe me it's far worse second time round. We had no shape, none, the gap between the attack and midfield was enormous our defenders couldn't hold the line and our pressing play was non existent.
I still can't work out what our tactics were.
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I'd imagine they were meant to be something like vs Arsenal, when we defended v v well. We still limited them to just shots from distance, but I agree, the gap was too big - not sure if it was on the mf end or the defensive end
 
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