Moyes has to go

[Varun]

I think these would definitely make the board/owners have a re-think. Once the crowd start walking out, voicing their disapproval or critically not even turning up, then your whole investment is slowly going down the drain. It's a business world which has changed over the last ten fifteen years. They can implode very quickly.

Oh don't worry if we play like we have been so far this season this is exactly what will happen.

I absolutely see it happening. And that might just be the start of the end for him because I dont see the home support sticking him with for long if that happens.

I don't mind Moyes spending the money as it seems we'll be going after top players (if they are willing to come here), but I just don't think we'll ever see the best of the team whilst Moyes is in charge.

Yep, agreed on both accounts. As I've said in the Kroos and Gundogan threads, they'd improve us individually but as a team, we wont get much better and then we'd have people here questioning how they're worth 35mil. How players are used is very important.

 

[Revan]

 

[SER19]

why cant it be both? why must people be on such extremes either side. clearly moyes has a problem and clearly theres far too many average players and players who have lost interest in the team. whether its the manager that has caused a loss of interest i dont care, the least you expect from players is the ball moving in a straight line and basic schoolboy defending standards being met. some are far too happy for moyes to take the blame while they take a free ride and if moyes goes, they should go with him. i for one, would have a hard time respecting some next season even with a new manager.

 

[Plugsy]

why cant it be both? why must people be on such extremes either side. clearly moyes has a problem and clearly theres far too many average players and players who have lost interest in the team. whether its the manager that has caused a loss of interest i dont care, the least you expect from players is the ball moving in a straight line and basic schoolboy defending standards being met. some are far too happy for moyes to take the blame while they take a free ride and if moyes goes, they should go with him. i for one, would have a hard time respecting some next season even with a new manager.

But on the subject of 'average players', I'm not suggesting it's wrong but how the hell does it explain the whole 'we only want to buy world class players' transfer ethos that means we're as picky in the market as a lactose and wheat intolerant vegan vegetarian on a special diet not to eat anything which name contains a vowel, attending a buffet. Surely the job you have as manager if you think players are average is to replace the with better ones ASAP, not keep going with what you have on the basis that nobody who is world class is available.

You don't have to wait for Iniesta to come onto the market to realise that Cleverley is probably a bit pants and that a significant upgrade on him probably isn't too difficult to obtain nor be that expensive either.

 

[OneUnited24]

Rooney is playing better than ever. Proof that Moyes is excellent.

I hope that's sarcasm. Rooney playing well is the only thing moyes has managed and even then how's that enough given how poor the rest of the teams been

 

[Revan]

I hope that's sarcasm. Rooney playing well is the only thing moyes has managed and even then how's that enough given how poor the rest of the teams been

What about Carrick? He didn't score any goal last season but this season he has scored one. In last game he made more passes than any EPL player this season. If this isn't enough proof to show that Moyes is excellent I don't know what it is.

 

[Melvyn]

For those saying we have average players: yes we don't have a CL winning squad, but this group of players should be more than good enough to beat Olympiakos. The same group of players drew with Madrid at the Bernabeu. There's a problem and it's Moyes' tactics and team selection.

 

[SER19]

But on the subject of 'average players', I'm not suggesting it's wrong but how the hell does it explain the whole 'we only want to buy world class players' transfer ethos that means we're as picky in the market as a lactose and wheat intolerant vegan vegetarian on a special diet not to eat anything which name contains a vowel, attending a buffet. Surely the job you have as manager if you think players are average is to replace the with better ones ASAP, not keep going with what you have on the basis that nobody who is world class is available.

You don't have to wait for Iniesta to come onto the market to realise that Cleverley is probably a bit pants and that a significant upgrade on him probably isn't too difficult to obtain nor be that expensive either.

i agree. moyes was to blame with others for such a poor transfer window last summer. what goes hand iin hand though is a number of players in our team not actually being poor players, but having an 8 month holiday while somebody else takes the blame. vidic, carrick, van persie, rafael have all had their worst seasons for united. add in the likes of cleverley, young and valencia who arent good enough, most of our team is just waiting to be beaten.

Id honestly prefer see the likes of powell and lingard brought in for the rest of the season. with fletcher,fellaini, januzaj, kagawa.

i was shocked at how carrick conducted himself last night. a senior player,usually sensible and likeable giving those pathetic interviews.

 

[Kevin]

i was shocked at how carrick conducted himself last night. a senior player,usually sensible and likeable giving those pathetic interviews.

I was delighted with Carrick. You know when you're a shit manager when even a nothing personality like Carrick is getting grumpy.

 

[RoadTrip]

I just think he has lost the dressing room. What do you expect when very single player in that dressing room has won more trophies than him (give or take 1 or 2).

 

[togg]

place in three weeks' time.
"I think there is undoubtedly talent at Manchester United but tonight we didn't show it," the United manager said.
"Me and the team we didn't show it together.
"It is something we will have to do. We will put it right. We are determined to put it right and will have opportunities to do that in the coming weeks.
"There is a second game to come and Old Trafford has seen some great night s in the past and I am looking forward to hopefully seeing another one."

How many times has he said this this season?? Weren't the 'coming weeks' the last there months?

 

[poisson]

I was delighted with Carrick. You know when you're a shit manager when even a nothing personality like Carrick is getting grumpy.

It was very depressing to see that interview. Usually after any defeat, the players, whilst disapointed, always try to be positive and look forward to the next game hoping to put things right. But this time, Carrick looked desolate - almost as if he knew nothing would change in the next game, just more disappointment.

 

[2 man midfield]

place in three weeks' time.
"I think there is undoubtedly talent at Manchester United but tonight we didn't show it," the United manager said.
"Me and the team we didn't show it together.
"It is something we will have to do. We will put it right. We are determined to put it right and will have opportunities to do that in the coming weeks.
"There is a second game to come and Old Trafford has seen some great night s in the past and I am looking forward to hopefully seeing another one."

How many times has he said this this season?? Weren't the 'coming weeks' the last there months?

Yep. It's getting quite tiresome now. We'd better enjoy the return leg, could well be the last Champions league night we see at Old Trafford for a while.

 

[Raees]

I just think he has lost the dressing room. What do you expect when very single player in that dressing room has won more trophies than him (give or take 1 or 2).

Trophies don't come into it, they just know he's a prehistoric manager with shite tactics. How can you have faith in your manager if he's picking the likes of Young and Valencia into the side.

We easily could've picked

Januzaj Carrick Fellaini Welbeck
Rooney RVP

Not a great team, but enough to beat yesterdays opponents, Moyes can't use the squad thing as an excuse.. he's failing to make the most out of the squad he does have.

 

[Rudie]

At the end of the day this team is capable of winning matches, we're only losing when we go down a goal, we can no longer turn around deficits, we're crumbling as opposed to not being capable of winning and to me that's where the manager makes a difference. Why can we no longer turn round 1-0 deficits?

 

[Ronnie O'Sullivan]

Yep. It's getting quite tiresome now. We'd better enjoy the return leg, could well be the last Champions league night we see at Old Trafford for a while.

Depressing fact.... sigh

 

[Empire]

What's the use of giving him until the end of the season and then sacking him though?What is even remotely likely to change between now and then?

Read my posts, it's all in there.

They're based on the assumption Woodward and the lawyers drawing up Moyes contract did their job. Moyes should have been expected to accomplish specific objectives such as finish in the top four, failure to do so would be grounds to terminate the contract. He has not yet technically failed to make top four so we would be better off sacking him when he has, avoiding a large payout.

You could never put a clause in asking Moyes to win the league as this could be deemed unfair in the court of law however a top four finish is more than reasonable. If he agreed to the terms of the contract in which the management service he offered the football club involved achieving at the least a top four finish then he is in breach of that contract, his service has not produced the results expected. This breach could lead to termination of the contract.

At least that's what happens in the business world I think but I don't know about the Football world.

 

[Rednails]

It was a dereliction of duty to leave our best player at home for such an important match. Rio should not be playing back to back matches. Fellani would have been better than Cleverley. Smalling will never be a fullback. Valencia and Young are not up to European standard. All those who still support Moyes must be blind. He makes mistake after mistake on team selection and tactics week after week. I have come to the conclusion that not only is he over cautious, uncharisimatic and negative, he lacks intelligence. Why does he keep playing these players and why does he keep saying he didn't expect such a performance?

For Gods sake get rid of him before he does any more damage to my beloved club. Get a caretaker in, give the reserves a chance, drop all the under performing payers. Be warned United, a lot of people will not be renewing season tickets next year if this crap continues.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I'm afraid you don't have a footballing brain, Varun. You don't appreciate the little nuances that make our style wonderful.

 

[KanieKaned]

Get rid, hes a clueless manager.

Id be calling Rene and Phelan to get a familiar coaching setup back into the club and then asking Giggs to take on the role of Interim Manager until someone more concrete is sounded out.

 

[Revan]

I'm afraid you don't have a footballing brain, Varun. You don't appreciate the little nuances that make our style wonderful.

Exactly. The solution of this mess is to buy footballing brains. Nothing is wrong with things, we are just unable to appreciate them.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

I feel the player's want him sacked but in all likelihood it is them who be shafted. Get used to it, lads. We've a drab couple of seasons to live with.

 

[LR7]

The sad truth is that usually you notice the changes in playing style if a good manager is taking over a team.

It never takes a team long to look like a Mourinho side. Pellegrini at City had his style stamped on the team after only a dozen of games. Bayern looked like a Guardiola side straight from the start even though a bit insecure in their new ways you could already see Guardiola's style imprinted in their football.

All of those manager who took over a team this summer like Moyes got their teams to play their football after only a few games so why are we still playing so dire? Which is really worrying because either Moyes can't translate his philosophy of football to the player or his philosophy just isn't working at the level of a top club like ours and both of these options would be devastating.

It might be that the team needs an extra ordinary amount of time of getting used to a new manager and his ways of playing football but Moyes time at Everton has done nothing to suggest he actually let's his team play great modern football.

Which is another problem for him he really has nothing of value to point out for him apart from doing a solid job at Everton. When Rodgers started poorly at Liverpool everybody at least knew that he could make his sides play good football that it just might take time and squad rebuilding to do it but Moyes doesn't have such promise to offer because his sides never played any outstanding football not even for the level of players they had.

I agree with most of your points but I don't see why the team needs an extraordinary amount of time to get used to a new manager. I know Fergie was here a long time but it's not like our players had never played under other managers in their careers before. Only a few had only played under Fergie alone. Moyes was at Everton for 11 years but it didn't take very long for Martinez to come in and imprint his style on that Everton team. We've seen nothing but getting to the byline and whipping in a hopeful cross to hint at how Moyes wants this team to play. Its been dreadful and directionless.

 

[Getsme]

I feel the player's want him sacked but in all likelihood it is them who be shafted. Get used to it, lads. We've a drab couple of seasons to live with.

Well aren't you just a bag full of fecking joy.
I agree

 

[Dirty Schwein]

There's only 3 options from here on in:

1. Sack Moyes and cost us 5 years in his wages
2. Sell the sack of shit players aka Ashley Young, Valencia, Cleverly etc (but who would want them?) and reinvest in top players (who wont want to come unless we get the mercenaries with promises of big wages)
3. Get on our knees and beg Man City for a loan to buy Zlatan

Either option will cost us a bomb

 

[NoLogo]

I agree with most of your points but I don't see why the team needs an extraordinary amount of time to get used to a new manager. I know Fergie was here a long time but it's not like our players had never played under other managers in their careers before. Only a few had only played under Fergie alone. Moyes was at Everton for 11 years but it didn't take very long for Martinez to come in and imprint his style on that Everton team. We've seen nothing but getting to the byline and whipping in a hopeful cross to hint at how Moyes wants this team to play. Its been dreadful and directionless.

Yeah like I said you "could" make the excuse that because of the long tenure of SAF it takes a while to adjust but it's a small and not very good excuse like you pointed out. I'm pretty sure Mourinho would haven't taken longer to get them to play his football then he did have with Chelsea.

But there is another problem that we might actually already be seeing the brand of football we could expect under Moyes which is quite damning if that really is the case.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

Well aren't you just a bag full of fecking joy.
I agree

Just a realist, mate.

 

[Varun]

I'm afraid you don't have a footballing brain, Varun. You don't appreciate the little nuances that make our style wonderful.

Yeah, that's for those who actually understand football. Poor me

 

[KiD MoYeS]

There's only 3 options from here on in:

1. Sack Moyes and cost us 5 years in his wages
2. Sell the sack of shit players aka Ashley Young, Valencia, Cleverly etc (but who would want them?) and reinvest in top players (who wont want to come unless we get the mercenaries with promises of big wages)
3. Get on our knees and beg Man City for a loan to buy Zlatan

Either option will cost us a bomb

I'm not so sure we can spend our way out of trouble with Moyes at the helm to be honest. We could bring in two top class midfield players and still persist with his drab philosophy centered around not losing rather than actually winning.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I just think he has lost the dressing room. What do you expect when very single player in that dressing room has won more trophies than him (give or take 1 or 2).

He's also basically said he doesn't rate half of them by saying he want to bring all these world class players in. Not great for team harmony.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Yeah like I said you "could" make the excuse that because of the long tenure of SAF it takes a while to adjust but it's a small and not very good excuse like you pointed out. I'm pretty sure Mourinho would haven't taken longer to get them to play his football then he did have with Chelsea.

But there is another problem that we might actually already be seeing the brand of football we could expect under Moyes which is quite damning if that really is the case.

That is the scary part. Is he going to go for top players, then ruin them in his shit system, or buy shit players to fit into his shit system.

 

[Amir]

"There is a second game to come and Old Trafford has seen some great night s in the past and I am looking forward to hopefully seeing another one."

How many times has he said this this season?? Weren't the 'coming weeks' the last there months?

place in three weeks' time.
"I think there is undoubtedly talent at Manchester United but tonight we didn't show it," the United manager said.
"Me and the team we didn't show it together.
"It is something we will have to do. We will put it right. We are determined to put it right and will have opportunities to do that in the coming weeks.
"There is a second game to come and Old Trafford has seen some great night s in the past and I am looking forward to hopefully seeing another one."

How many times has he said this this season?? Weren't the 'coming weeks' the last there months?

For me, this is a big issue. He keeps on talking about what the club has done in the past, as if he expects that past to see us through or something. Our history won't help him and us now. It's up to him to get it right in the present and the future.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

Hopefully we make it difficult for Olympiakos in the second leg.

 

[Getsme]

Just a realist, mate.

I know mate I agree.
He isn't getting sacked anytime soon, in fact id go as far as saying he’s probably one of a few managers in the league whose job is 100% secure

 

[smallred]

for those asking for the likes of Valencia, young Welbeck and Cleverly to be sold, last night shows it is these players that will be the ones kept....

Moyes is alienating the likes of Kagawa, Hernandez and dare i say it others such as RVP, Evra, Nani and a few more and its more likely that these will leave, before the players that really should do.

we are stuck with moyes and it looks like we are stuck with the poorest players also.

 

[Amir]

I feel the player's want him sacked but in all likelihood it is them who be shafted. Get used to it, lads. We've a drab couple of seasons to live with.

It will definitely happen if supporters continue to support him.... It has to end before he causes long term damage.

 

[Amir]

You'd be wrong then. Just because Fergie was allowed to pick his successor does in no way mean Glazers won't shy from sacking him. They aren't half as sentimental as you are making them out to be.

It's not about sentimentality, it's about realizing they are not football people and leaving that to others. Them keeping out of Gill and Fergie's way in recent years was our greatest strength. Now it could be our biggest downfall.

Incredibly, the Glazers are now our biggest hope because Fergie would probably back Moyes all the way to the conference.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

 

[Amir]

Moyes will have no trouble finding a new job. Muelensteen found two in the space of less than a year.

He won't leave on his own because he'll never get a job as big as this again. No matter how bad it gets, this is his one and only big chance.

 

[Amir]

Let's not forget the 'Ooh, we topped our CL group, Moyes has got this European football thing sussed!'.