Moyes has to go

[rcoobc]

The infuriating thing is there are players who could improve our midfield, who play for Manchester United. Like Fletcher and Fellaini for example, who have both played next to Carrick and looked obviously better than him, this season, multiple times...without a single occasion where the opposite has been true.

Has fletcher really improved our midfield when he had played? I mean I love the guy, but I'm not sure of that myself.

 

[Seveneric]

These players have contributed more to United's success than Moyes ever will.

8 months of bad coaching, motivating, tactics and instructions is enough to destroy any player. It's why there's quite a big emphasis on the importance of managers in football, it's their job to get the best out their players.

This would be true if a lot of the players weren't already looking bad by around Oct/Nov, just barely 4 months into Moyes' tenure

Carrick refusing to say the players had let themselves down.

Now maybe I'm saying 1+1=3 but his reply really looked like he wants to absolve the players of blame and say a lot more.

He should either speak up or shut up. I think it'd be pathetic of him personally. I'm not a Moyes supporter by any means, but Moyes can simply just not be responsible for everything happening right now. Tactical cluelessness doesn't make you as bad as Carrick(and some of he others) have been this season, even with Moyes' ineptitude, the players should still be able to do the most basic of things right, which some of them can't seem to now. Idk, maybe the players don't want to play for him or something, but whatever it is, it's not all his fault.

 

[Adzzz]

Remember when we all laughed at the idea he'd be our next manager.

 

[Mickeza]

Get Di Matteo in for the rest of the season.

 

[MikeUpNorth]

Nah we were right to give him this much time at least.

As it turned out we were just giving him enough rope to hang himself with. Still, at least it's now clear to everyone that he's failing.

I don't agree that he should have got this much time. Any idiot can wait until the point of no return to make a decision. The skill is in identifying the problem early and trying to rectify it. Replacing him at the start of January would still have given us a chance to save the season.

 

[Dominos]

He won't be sacked at this point. It is not an irretrievable deficit. Even when we inevitably crash out after the second leg I don't believe he will get the boot. A rinsing by the scousers might be the catalyst, but I wouldn't bank on it.

We can only hope he does the decent thing.

This sounds a bit like the excuse I and many others gave for not wanting him sacked after the Everton and Newcastle defeats.

Honestly, if anyone truly believe he's going to turn the club's fortunes around, either in the long term or short term, they're in for a huge disappointment. You can't go from this out of your depth to roaring success, you just can't.

 

[Kingcon]

1. We've already spent 64M on players, has Moyes proven he's trust worthy to spend more on? I'd rather pay the 30M to buy out his contract and cut our losses.
2. How can it get any worse? What, like finishing 7th instead of 5th? He has failed miserably in his first year and has given me zero reasons to trust any chance of stability a future with him might bring.

The club made a mistake, time to suck it up and move on.

 

[Chorley1974]

You aren't looking hard enough. It's like saying you can't see a player who could improve our midfield; there are dozens.

Obviously not.

 

[Kevin]

I almost hope he does stay for another ten years... that'll teach the few supporters he still has. Let them look back on this period of time i their lives and realize their cocknosery.

Remember when we all laughed at the idea he'd be our next manager.

No, some have always seen him as our general. Posters like Mozza were delighted with him.

 

[Gladiator]

Just look at that backroom staff.. Just look at it. He should never have sacked Ferguson's team. Add to it by all means but there is no way Phil Neville should be a significant part of United's staff in his first coaching role, particularly with a new manager getting to grips with the job.

werent you one of those saying he had every right in sacking ferguson's team?

 

[Sarni]

He's managed to turn a team with an ageing defence, crap midfield and reliant on Rooney and Van Persie into a team with an ageing defence, crap midfield and reliant on Rooney, Van Persie and Januzaj.

Indeed. There's no difference between our level last season and this one.

 

[rcoobc]

It's still possible to have the best of both worlds.

We can come 5th, sack Moyes and then UEFA will reinstate us for Cities financial irregularities.

#believe

 

[Mister Ed]

This would be true if a lot of the players weren't already looking bad by around Oct/Nov, just barely 4 months into Moyes' tenure


He should either speak up or shut up. I think it'd be pathetic of him personally. I'm not a Moyes supporter by any means, but Moyes can simply just not be responsible for everything happening right now. Tactical cluelessness doesn't make you as bad as Carrick(and some of he others) have been this season, even with Moyes' ineptitude, the players should still be able to do the most basic of things right, which some of them can't seem to now. Idk, maybe the players don't want to play for him or something, but whatever it is, it's not all his fault.

Well Moyes is a specialist in destroying players confidence. He managed to destroy the confidence of a team heralded for its confidence and winning mentality in just a few weeks. Hope is proud of that.

 

[Dominos]

This would be true if a lot of the players weren't already looking bad by around Oct/Nov, just barely 4 months into Moyes' tenure


He should either speak up or shut up. I think it'd be pathetic of him personally. I'm not a Moyes supporter by any means, but Moyes can simply just not be responsible for everything happening right now. Tactical cluelessness doesn't make you as bad as Carrick(and some of he others) have been this season, even with Moyes' ineptitude, the players should still be able to do the most basic of things right, which some of them can't seem to now. Idk, maybe the players don't want to play for him or something, but whatever it is, it's not all his fault.

4 months then.

The idea that what we perceived to be 25 hugely competitive and driven professionals, now can't be arsed trying, is not one I subscribe to. It's them who are going to suffer the lack of trophies, lack of medals, lack of CL football. They're not going to be shit on purpose.

 

[Adzzz]

I almost hope he does stay for another ten years... that'll teach the few supporters he still has. Let them look back on this period of time i their lives and realize their cocknosery.


No, some have always seen him as our general. Posters like Mozza were delighted with him.

I remember the majority being like 'Moyes, yeah, pull the other leg.' People will always be wrong about things.

 

[arthurka]

1. We've already spent 64M on players, has Moyes proven he's trust worthy to spend more on? I'd rather pay the 30M to buy out his contract and cut our losses.
2. How can it get any worse? What, like finishing 7th instead of 5th? He has failed miserably in his first year and has given me zero reasons to trust any chance of stability a future with him might bring.

The club made a mistake, time to suck it up and move on.

Agree...
Write this season off and start from scratch. Stop him before he does more damage.

 

[Revan]

I wrote a thing on Moyes a few weeks ago, and tonight pretty much summed up certain parts of it:

http://newdless.wordpress.com/2014/02/11/moyes/

I even missed out his baffling and deliberate reliance on his worst performing players, but basically yeah, I'm now quite scared of the idea of more responsibility being entrusted to him.

He sees his team play badly and doesn't understand or notice the obvious things they're doing wrong. He sees them play well and then seems to almost alter everything about the team that worked. This isn't about the players or needing time. It's just generally being clueless.

Tonight was a perfect example. Team played well at the weekend...so he takes out his best performing midfielder, plays Young and Valencia so he changes not only the personel but the system, leaves Januzaj at home. The only part of the midfield he left alone was Michael Carrick, who was the only part of the midfield on Sunday that looked shite. All he needed to do was replace Mata with Kagawa. IF there was any other part of the midfield that needed changing, it was Michael Carrick, who's been a pathetic liability every time he's played since the Norwich game.

He played the same two centrebacks despite them being awful against Palace, and generally all season. He could have had Smalling there and moved someone else to feck around at badly pretending to be a fullback. He didn't though, and he wont, because he doesn't even understand that Vidic is doing anything wrong. He's like one of the deluded fanboys on here.

Generally the only bits of the team he leaves alone are the ones that didn't perform nearly well enough in the previous game. It is almost as if he's deliberately trying to be shit.

This is fantastic noodle. I especially loved this part:

Despite this however, there will still be some constants. For example, Moyes will generally select a back four, a midfield four, and two strikers. One of Young or Valencia will be selected to play out wide (whichever one didn’t play in the last game), while the other wing will generally be used to play someone who isn’t a winger out of position. The main purpose of this is to allow them to be subbed off for Hernandez. Both strikers will push up past each other, while the two midfielders will drop back as far as possible. This allows for the team to play slow, ineffective long balls out wide.

The bolded line is genius.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

This sounds a bit like the excuse I and many others gave for not wanting him sacked after the Everton and Newcastle defeats.

Honestly, if anyone truly believe he's going to turn the club's fortunes around, either in the long term or short term, they're in for a huge disappointment. You can't go from this out of your depth to roaring success, you just can't.

I was referring to the two legged tie. We could turn it around at Old Trafford.

 

[Pexbo]

Remember when we all laughed at the idea he'd be our next manager.

And some took some sort of meal high ground in choosing him over Mourinho.

 

[Revan]

It's still possible to have the best of both worlds.

We can come 5th, sack Moyes and then UEFA will reinstate us for Cities financial irregularities.

#believe

Alternately, God can act in a mysterious way and put us in the top of the table and retroactively change everyone's memories. Both scenarios have around the same probability to happen.

#believe

 

[Verminator]

Some may question the players, but it is the management team at fault.
If it were not, then why would their old team be performing so much better now they have gone? Brcause the players care more?
That would still fall at the coaching staff's feet.

 

[Red Stone]

I voted yes. I'm not going to spend any time elaborating, because anyone who's seen what he's done with us since he was appointed should understand why I've voted as I have.

 

[Someone]

No offense to moyes, somethings just don't work out, he's a good manager, but clearly it's not working for him here, forget shit tactics, he just can't get the players to be confident again, they're shattered, i've said it before, this isn't about our midfield or aging players, it's about players playing way below their standards, moyes is the kind of manager you'd want to succeed at the club, but it's not working at all.

 

[Red Shorts]

I'd rather Moyes stepped down than Kim Jong-Un.

At least with Kim, he would tell the Nation that United have scored 1000 points this season, more than humanly possible and can never be broken.

 

[rcoobc]

And some took some sort of meal high ground in choosing him over Mourinho.

Mou was never right for the club as along term manager. But...

 

[rcoobc]

No offense to moyes, somethings just don't work out, he's a good manager, but clearly it's not working for him here, forget shit tactics, he just can't get the players to be confident again, they're shattered, i've said it before, this isn't about our midfield or aging players, it's about players playing way below their standards, moyes is the kind of manager you'd want to succeed at the club, but it's not working at all.

Good post in my opinion.

 

[Dobba]

Some may question the players, but it is the management team at fault.
If it were not, then why would their old team be performing so much better now they have gone? Brcause the players care more?
That would still fall at the coaching staff's feet.

So presumably we dodged a bullet not hiring Jose or Jupp Heynckes?

 

[Theon]

werent you one of those saying he had every right in sacking ferguson's team?

No, but good job.

One of the biggest reasons I supported the Moyes appointment - though not the only one - was because I didn't think he would make significant changes.

I had a brief scan and this isn't the best example of my views at the time, but is good enough

I think in general the coaches will stay the same, we have one of the best set ups in the world and always manage to bring players on in their development. If anything Moyes will relish the chance to work with resources and staff we have at United, it will be so much larger than anything Everton have given our finances and size of Carrington.

No doubt he'll bring some of his own people though, I don't know who is first team coaches are but some of them might come in, maybe a chief scout as well for example. But in general there won't be much change IMO, would be daft to do so. If it ain't broke etc.

So no I didn't think he should sack the staff.

You used a very strange term there though - of course he has the 'right' to appoint whoever he wanted. Why wouldn't he? He is the manager.

Very strange.

 

[Seveneric]

4 months then.

The idea that what we perceived to be 25 hugely competitive and driven professionals, now can't be arsed trying, is not one I subscribe to. It's them who are going to suffer the lack of trophies, lack of medals, lack of CL football. They're not going to be shit on purpose.

I don't think United players are anymore professional or "better" than say for example Chelsea players and we all know how they were under a manager they didn't want to play for, of course difference was that they sacked him faster than Moyes will probably get sacked, so it didn't get this bad. Like I've said before, there's no doubt that Moyes has done a lot wrong, but no one has still managed to explain how he's been responsible for some of the basic errors by a lot of the players this season. Playing wrong tactics doesn't stop you from being able to do basic things right like string passes together or forget how to defend.

 

[Dominos]

I was referring to the two legged tie. We could turn it around at Old Trafford.

I know you were. I'm just saying, we can't keep delaying the inevitable on the idea it's not quite over yet. It will be. If not against Olympiakos, in the quarters.

We could still have salvaged our season if we'd gone with our gut back in December and just replaced him there and then. Maybe we wouldn't be looking at a season or more without European football.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

I never wanted him in the first place and was very vocal about it.

 

[holdsteady]

So come on Juergen Klopp
Please make this stop
We'll go wild wild wild

 

[Seveneric]

The fact Ferguson made the appointment and made a big thing about giving him time and supporting him no matter what, is the major stinker in all this. If he hadn't done that, the media would have been far worse for him and I guarantee you that he would have been firred already months ago.

I love Ferguson, but he messed up big time on this one, BIG TIME !

What does this even mean? That Ferguson shouldn't have backed him so that the media would have been able to tear into him and he'd have gotten fired, what?

 

[Sixpence]

91%. Ninety-fecking-one percent.

 

[The White Pele]

What I would like to know is who at the club would make the decision. Ultimately it has to be the Glazers but they seem to keep the footballing decisions at an arms length so as not to appear to be intefering. Ed Woodward is unlikely to make such a decision when he himself has had such a short tenure and that leaves Ferguson and Charlton who may be too sympathetic to Moyes' plight.

Maybe post-Fergie we need a different structure at the club with someone football minded but independent enough to do the cold hiring and firing. I'm not sure who you would trust in such a role though.

If Moyes goes we need fresh ideas top to bottom, a manager with some innovation to try and break the mould of this team.

 

[Bear Attack]

I'm not sure what his problem is. Is he a sleeper agent? The one game we start looking like a team and he tears down each successful component only to reinstate the tepid institutions we've seen too much of.

He honestly is clueless. There's no other explanation. He's just a big retard.

 

[Mozza]

No, some have always seen him as our general. Posters like Mozza were delighted with him.

I was never delighted to have him, just not a knee jerk hater because he wasn't a foreigner

 

[Dominos]

I don't think United players are anymore professional or "better" than say for example Chelsea players and we all know how they were under a manager they didn't want to play for, of course difference was that they sacked him faster than Moyes will probably get sacked, so it didn't get this bad. Like I've said before, there's no doubt that Moyes has done a lot wrong, but no one has still managed to explain how he's been responsible for some of the basic errors by a lot of the players this season. Playing wrong tactics doesn't stop you from being able to do basic things right like string passes together or forget how to defend.

All managers are helpless to their players making mistakes. Fergie had to endure it.

You're not going to persuade me by coincidence our players have been saving up their mistakes over the years and only now are they releasing them onto the field.

He's probably destroyed their confidence, not motivating them the right way or getting them in the right frame of mind, and combined with poor coaching, what we saw tonight is the result.

On the players trying or not - the fact is, if we can get a manager to come in and get them putting the effort in that won us trophies, that's a better solution than getting rid of 25 players to appease an incompetent manager.

 

[Ludens the Red]

I wrote a thing on Moyes a few weeks ago, and tonight pretty much summed up certain parts of it:
http://newdless.wordpress.com/2014/02/11/moyes/

I even missed out his baffling and deliberate reliance on his worst performing players, but basically yeah, I'm now quite scared of the idea of more responsibility being entrusted to him.

He sees his team play badly and doesn't understand or notice the obvious things they're doing wrong. He sees them play well and then seems to almost alter everything about the team that worked. This isn't about the players or needing time. It's just generally being clueless.

Tonight was a perfect example. Team played well at the weekend...so he takes out his best performing midfielder, plays Young and Valencia so he changes not only the personel but the system, leaves Januzaj at home. The only part of the midfield he left alone was Michael Carrick, who was the only part of the midfield on Sunday that looked shite. All he needed to do was replace Mata with Kagawa. IF there was any other part of the midfield that needed changing, it was Michael Carrick, who's been a pathetic liability every time he's played since the Norwich game.

He played the same two centrebacks despite them being awful against Palace, and generally all season. He could have had Smalling there and moved someone else to feck around at badly pretending to be a fullback. He didn't though, and he wont, because he doesn't even understand that Vidic is doing anything wrong. He's like one of the deluded fanboys on here.

Generally the only bits of the team he leaves alone are the ones that didn't perform nearly well enough in the previous game. It is almost as if he's deliberately trying to be shit.

The Hernandez wheel

 

[That'sHernandez]

Why merge the thread when my poll was better?

 

[Gladiator]

No, but good job.

One of the biggest reasons I supported the Moyes appointment - though not the only one - was because I didn't think he would make significant changes.

I had a brief scan and this isn't the best example of my views at the time, but is good enough



So no I didn't think he should sack the staff.

You used a very strange term there though - of course he has the 'right' to appoint whoever he wanted. Why wouldn't he? He is the manager.

Very strange.

was just clarifying the situation. i thought you were one of those who said it wasn a bad decision to sack fergie's coaching staff