It's the same buyer regardless of manager at city - Begiristain
Mourinho : "Transfer spend is not enough"
- Thread starter Maradona10
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It's the same buyer regardless of manager at city - Begiristain
I don't mind giving credit where it is due - But Mourinho is venturing into Moyes territory here. Getting his excuses in.
Mourinho didn’t sign Shaw.
And pretty sure he rejected the chance to sign Shaw due to the high fee and wages at Chelsea.
And you're proud of that ?
You really think United is made to overpay more than the bottomless well of money that is Man City?
Yeah, as the seasons without winning have gone on and we've gotten more desperate. I don't think it's the be all and end all and I'm sure City overpay to an extent, too.
Wonder what you think of some of Klopps comments this year?
Whatever Jose says these days is jumped upon and regarded as an excuse.
United’s market is different from Liverpool’s market - every man & his dog knows this. If United had gone for Salah last season, his parent club would have asked for £60m. The selling clubs know United have a bottomless pocket and they always try to make United pay a premium price even for average players.
We're third in goals scored, comfortably ahead of Spurs, Arsenal and Chelsea, which is a far better measurement on how many goals we can score.
Blagging - He does that a lot.
Fair enough. Still comes out weird when his own club is spending striker amounts on fullbacks too.
More like Shaw rejected Mourinho for United at the time.
@FultonRed
Good post. Even though we aren't a million miles away, getting 2 full backs, a midfielder (I highly doubt Ander will improve massively), a right winger and another striker, all of the desired quality is probably somewhere between 200-250m, unless they are out of contract or have a year left making them slightly cheaper.
What is the combined value we can accrue from selling Darmian, one of Smalling/Rojo/Jones and Mkhi? Blind and Fellaini are out of contract in summer, so no cash there. I could imagine we might get 12-15m for Darmian, 15m for one of the defenders, maybe 20m for Mkhi, and we might get 15-20m for Zaha, if Palace sell him. All in all, maybe 60-70m.
If Jose doesn't get the backing he needs, we either need to accept that this is a long-term project with the accompanying and continuing barren spell, or in the least dignified manner crowdfund from the supposedly enormous fanbase to create a transfer kitty
Good post. Even though we aren't a million miles away, getting 2 full backs, a midfielder (I highly doubt Ander will improve massively), a right winger and another striker, all of the desired quality is probably somewhere between 200-250m, unless they are out of contract or have a year left making them slightly cheaper.
What is the combined value we can accrue from selling Darmian, one of Smalling/Rojo/Jones and Mkhi? Blind and Fellaini are out of contract in summer, so no cash there. I could imagine we might get 12-15m for Darmian, 15m for one of the defenders, maybe 20m for Mkhi, and we might get 15-20m for Zaha, if Palace sell him. All in all, maybe 60-70m.
If Jose doesn't get the backing he needs, we either need to accept that this is a long-term project with the accompanying and continuing barren spell, or in the least dignified manner crowdfund from the supposedly enormous fanbase to create a transfer kitty
Net spend is a fecking joke. We could sell players we bought pre Jose for half of the fee we paid for and that horrendous piece of business would show up as a positive in our favour.
Pep sells Mangala for 15m in Jan making it a 35m (?) loss...look at the great work they're doing...those artificially set goalposts that logs horrendous losses as positives sure does tell us something.
Pep sells Mangala for 15m in Jan making it a 35m (?) loss...look at the great work they're doing...those artificially set goalposts that logs horrendous losses as positives sure does tell us something.
Chelsea were his boyhood team and they were above us at the time. We just had a calamitous season under Moyes and no champions league football.
Chelsea refused to pay the wages or fee we were offering. The only reason Shaw joined was due to the money.
Shaw was £28m. All the full backs at City cost about £50m each and they bought 4 in one transfer window. That’s more than half of what Jose has spent since arriving at United.
Only Pep can buy Nolito and then sell him a season later. He bought Bravo and he’s condemned him to the bench eternally. Pep’s transfers haven’t been excellent as well - the advantage is he inherited several quality players. Only DDG was quality when Jose arrived.
Peps expenditure is £365.85m in comparison with Mourinho’s expenditure of £291.3m. We are looking at £75mil here. That's a hell of a lot of money. If we had another world class midfielder or winger or another couple of top tier fullbacks do you not think that would significantly improve us?
We still need to consider the level of players at the disposal of the managers when they both took over. We didnt have an Aguero, Sterling, De Bruyne, Silva level player already at the club. We had DDG and that's about it.
Taking into consideration the money received for selling players isn't really relevant here. Selling players doesn't improve a team, and by and large those players would not be good enough for the team anyway.
It's relevant in terms of actual spending power. Selling some of those players might have afforded you Perisic this summer.
Of course, it is not relevant to City's spending power. But it does show what it would have been if they were operating under such constraints.
@B20
I don't think it was down to a lack of funds though, it was down to us not valuing him at 50m plus Martial.
It looks like we're going to spend serious money in January which is the same financial year so having the money isn't the problem.
I don't think it was down to a lack of funds though, it was down to us not valuing him at 50m plus Martial.
It looks like we're going to spend serious money in January which is the same financial year so having the money isn't the problem.
The comparison of Pogba and Lukaku with De Bruyne, Sterling, Sane and Jesus is certainly food for thought.
Which is very true. Really, Mourinho would be doing himself a big favor if he just said this instead. There is a lot to rebuild. #MoyesWasRight #ButSaidItLikeALoser
Totally agree that when we are in for a player the price is inflated dramatically. Woodward is at fault for this, remember him bragging on TV in an interview that money was no issue for us and we could afford any fee or wages for any player.
But!!!
Jose has to take responsibility for inflation, 90mill plus addons for Pogba changed the market, wasting money on Lindelof and for me personally spending 50 mill to much on an athlete rather than a footballer.
After a few underwhelming signing for top money he has no right to complain.
Yes peanut head spent more or less the same, and yes he already had world class players in KDB, Silva and Augero but he didn’t let sentimental thoughts to Citeh get in the way of getting rid of deadwood and paying what he needed to get the players he needed.
Jose has no excuses, he is the man responsible.
But!!!
Jose has to take responsibility for inflation, 90mill plus addons for Pogba changed the market, wasting money on Lindelof and for me personally spending 50 mill to much on an athlete rather than a footballer.
After a few underwhelming signing for top money he has no right to complain.
Yes peanut head spent more or less the same, and yes he already had world class players in KDB, Silva and Augero but he didn’t let sentimental thoughts to Citeh get in the way of getting rid of deadwood and paying what he needed to get the players he needed.
Jose has no excuses, he is the man responsible.
I agree. I don't think Mourinho's great at building teams from the ground up though. He hasn't evolved enough in his footballing ethos either. I was reading an archived REAL Madrid forum from I think 2011 or 2012 and they had the same complaints of poor attacking football with a good team. Including pressuring CR7 to do more defensively.
La Real have exceeded what he accomplished in his time there the last few years with 3 CL titles and have not compromised their attacking ethos. I really don't think he's be doing as well WIT H city's side as Pep is doing. A larger issue is that he's getting out-coached.
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Fair analysis tbh.
Moan moan moan. He mentioned injuries again when he has said he doesn’t cry about them. Yes we have injuries, so do City. He has spent half of the total on two players, Pogba and Lukaku whereas City spend 50m max it would seem if the published figures are to be believed.
Jose and his agent are closely linked. I’m not saying anything untoward is going on, but does anyone know if we have signed players from a different agent?. Jose is still pissed off in not getting Perisic who was yet another player that used United to get himself a better deal at his club, the Ramos effect I call it. Griezman won’t come thankfully. Don’t know where it will all end. Sanchez will go on a free to City and £400k pw, Ozil will go abroad and we’ll end up paying over the odds for some panic buy in January.
Burnley did however play well in the first half. Media said they ‘defended manfully’ whereby if it was Utd in that situation it would have been ‘parked the bus’ ‘Panic defence ‘ bollocks.
Jose and his agent are closely linked. I’m not saying anything untoward is going on, but does anyone know if we have signed players from a different agent?. Jose is still pissed off in not getting Perisic who was yet another player that used United to get himself a better deal at his club, the Ramos effect I call it. Griezman won’t come thankfully. Don’t know where it will all end. Sanchez will go on a free to City and £400k pw, Ozil will go abroad and we’ll end up paying over the odds for some panic buy in January.
Burnley did however play well in the first half. Media said they ‘defended manfully’ whereby if it was Utd in that situation it would have been ‘parked the bus’ ‘Panic defence ‘ bollocks.
It doesn't really matter at what angle Mourinho has come at this, it all points towards him being right. We don't have the players to compete with City right now. The investment required at United was bigger than at City, but they have still outspent us. At the moment we are the best of the rest.
Stopped paying attention when he thinks Joe Hart is a title winning player. Rashford is far from it also.
TBH, at this time we could consider Hart from this group.
In that case, you can also count Martial, Smalling and Shaw.
Is it unreasonable to expect a so-called top manager to be able to compete with what he has? If he really has to replace all 10 outfield players before he can begin work that would indicate he isn't the right man for the job.
Mourinho got the recruitment spot on in his first window. Last summer was far more chaotic and Matic is the only one I would consider a success so far.
Or because we are an inherently bigger club with a much better record of blooding young players. Evra was on the way out and it was the start of a re-build. Mourinho was very sour about it at the time.
He should have counted both Smalling and Young for us, and not count Rashford. Martial and Shaw, not really.
He is mentioning Hart, Yaya and Kompany though and they are all not a big part of Pep's team anymore. I also don't think anyone considered Fernandinho a world beater before that season and Pep improved more than 3 players. Silva struggled in the last 2 seasons, was considered past his best and is now in amazing form. De Bruyne was a great player, but he stepped it up another level this year. He pretty much improved every player he wanted to use and signed well. Jose on the other side improved Lingard, Young which are nice hard working players but no game-changers for what we want to achive. It would be much more worth if he could get the best out of Pogba or Miki or Lukaku or develope Martial or Rashford, the potential is there and it would improve us much more than getting decent performances out of Fellaini.
And of course Pep signed more players but don't forget that Jose only wanted 4 players each window and he got 7. He didn't thought a fullback was necessary or that we could do with a classic winger on the right and he had no plan B for Perisic. In the end he said it's not good to sign too much per window, which I can understand. But Pep didn't agree with him and it works for City. If Jose thought he need 10, 11 players he should have got them in as fast as possible. He didn't want too, but blaming our spending is not really the truth.
Who says he's not competing? He's second in the league despite a slew of injuries to key defenders and suspensions for Pogba and still in Europe.
This
I agree. Jose improves defenders generally. Not really attacking players. Especially those like De Bruyne or Mkhitaryan. Both young and Limgard are hard working players.
He is yet to provide a real title challenge in the league with us. Last year we were well off the pace and finished 6th. I realise City are a different animal this year but we have really fallen off the wagon since we played them. There's a good chance they'll be 15 points clear by tonight.
Blaming that gap on the funds available to each team is a really shallow excuse.
@FultonRed
Good post. Even though we aren't a million miles away, getting 2 full backs, a midfielder (I highly doubt Ander will improve massively), a right winger and another striker, all of the desired quality is probably somewhere between 200-250m, unless they are out of contract or have a year left making them slightly cheaper.
What is the combined value we can accrue from selling Darmian, one of Smalling/Rojo/Jones and Mkhi? Blind and Fellaini are out of contract in summer, so no cash there. I could imagine we might get 12-15m for Darmian, 15m for one of the defenders, maybe 20m for Mkhi, and we might get 15-20m for Zaha, if Palace sell him. All in all, maybe 60-70m.
If Jose doesn't get the backing he needs, we either need to accept that this is a long-term project with the accompanying and continuing barren spell, or in the least dignified manner crowdfund from the supposedly enormous fanbase to create a transfer kitty
Cheers mate.
Yea, it won't be easy, but we are about 3/4 of the way there. It will take a lot of money, especially with the big fees of the moment and the fact that we would be looking at real top players to provide the quality that we are missing. I too have doubts about Ander. Yea may be able to find some players who might be cheaper due to contract situations, that would be a bonus.
I agree, around 60-70 million sounds about right for maybe 3/4 of those players being sold. That itself is a damming indictment of some of the recent recruitment at the club.
He absolutely needs the backing, I doubt that we will go big for anyone in January but it would be reassuring to see the money made available so that if any situations arose we would be able to take advantage of them. This summer is where the pressure will be on in the transfer market, and with the World Cup we really need to get all business done ASAP. I could spare a £5
Ok what is the conclusion now? Is it a loud message to the board? why these words can not be kept in closing doors?