Mourinho | New old Chelsea manager

phelans shorts said:
Exactly my point, these people would love him if he was with us, I see no way in which a neutral would see him as a bigger cnut than either Fergie or Clough.

So yeah, let's never have a cnut in charge at United. Only bad can come of it. :wenger:
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I got a lot of friends who support Bayern, Inter, Barca, Juve, AC, NY RedBulls etc, etc. Fergie is viewed as a mythical figure. Mourinho is viewed as a tiring complaining old woman, even by the Inter fan.
 
I think their failure in the competition this year may make him more determined to stay at Real Madrid with them for one more year and win the Champions League with them before he makes his next career move.
 
Thought I'd post in this thread for the first time.

Apart from SAF, who works on different circumstances, Mourinho is the best manager in the world.

We'll see what Guardiola makes in the future. No one else seems to come near.
 
Mockney said:
The Real squad is quite average for a top one. Probably why he didn't really change the side during this glut of important games.
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For feck sake :lol:. Real Madrid have an average squad now?

Mourinho apologists just can’t accept any sort of criticism about him. Mockney saying a few pages ago that it’s the critics of Mourinho who suffer from ‘fanboyism’ is a bit of a joke, it’s evidently those who see him as some sort of footballing god when in reality there are plenty criticisms that can be levelled at him.

Anyway, regarding the transfers,

Young €20m
De Gea €25m
Jones €20m
Smalling €15m
Hernandez €8m
Bebe €8m
Lindegaard €5m

Callejon 5 million
Varane 10 million
Coentrao 30 million
Di Maria 30 million
Altintop free
Carvalho 8 million
Sahin 10 million
Ozil 15 million
Kheidera 13 million


Comparing the spending of Mourinho to Ferguson in the last two years is pointless on it’s own, as Madrid were starting from a far higher level than United. Suedesi is spot on in asking why only the last two years is relevant. Mourinho walked into a team with Benzema, Higuain, Ronaldo, Alonso, Diarra, Marcelo, Kaka, Ramos and Casillas... then spent €120m (yet he has an average squad. Okay.). United were not in the same position. Our biggest outlay was on a keeper for feck sake, because we didn’t have a first choice one. It was a purchase of necessity and did not improve us from the year before, it actually made us weaker if you consider VDS to be better than De Gea. How can that be compared to an already brilliant team making additions to their squad?

Also, he was fortunate that the transfers he made coincided with favourable contractual situations which allowed him to buy the players cheap. He might have spent €120m but the value of the assets he bought were far higher than that. Before anyone jumps in and says that it was some sort of brilliant scouting by Mourinho to find these players and take advantage of their contracts, Ozil and the like were wanted by every club in Europe. Madrid could pay the best wages and are obviously a great club, so that’s where he went, but it had nothing to do with Mourinho spotting a hidden talent etc.

I’d say the true asset value of a few players was,

Ozil €15 million – €30 million, one of the players of the tournament in the world cup. Only had one year left on his contract.
Sahin €10 million – €22 million, Player of the season in the Bundelisga. Release clause in his contract allowed him to go for cheap.
Kheidera €13 million – €22 million, played well in the world cup. Only one year left on contract.
 
I don't really understand the point you're trying to make about Madrid's squad. Are you saying they have underachieved this season?
 
I'm saying their squad is far from average, as some have claimed. And that your comparisons of Madrid and United's spending doesn't mean a thing.
 
Their squad is very good, but their defensive options are average.
 
As are Barcelona's, Bayern's, City's for example, but people aren't making excuses for Guardiola or Mancini based on having a poor back line.

If it's so bad then he should have addressed it, he's spent enough money elsewhere.
 
I'm not 'making excuses'. Excuses for what? They've had a very good season.
 
Theon said:
I'm saying their squad is far from average, as some have claimed. And that your comparisons of Madrid and United's spending doesn't mean a thing.
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I think their squad is rather average for a top side. You take away Ronaldo, and they have just OK players with a few quality. I'd say the same thing about our squad to be fair and Chelsea's.
 
MikeUpNorth said:
I'm not 'making excuses'. Excuses for what? They've had a very good season.
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Why mention it then? What's your point?

Losing and getting outplayed in both semi final games. It was an awful, defensive performance despite playing at home.

They've had a good season but no better than I'd expect a team of that quality to achieve. They lost their biggest game of the year by getting knocked out, and almost bottled the league as well. Winning La Liga has just as much to do with Barcelona losing it than Madrid winning it, Barca haven't been the same side this year.

Bayern were the first decent side Madrid faced in the Chapions League, beating CSKA and Apoel aren't that big of a challenge. He's done quite well, but not amazing, despite having what many consider the best squad in the world.
 
Theon said:
Why mention it then? What's your point?
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I was responding to the point that their squad is average. It isn't, only their defence. It's a discussion, why mention anything?

Theon said:
Losing and getting outplayed in both semi final games. It was an awful, defensive performance despite playing at home.

They've had a good season but no better than I'd expect a team of that quality to achieve. They lost their biggest game of the year by getting knocked out, and almost bottled the league as well. Winning La Liga has just as much to do with Barcelona losing it than Madrid winning it, Barca haven't been the same side this year.

Bayern were the first decent side Madrid faced in the Chapions League, beating CSKA and Apoel aren't that big of a challenge. He's done quite well, but not amazing, despite having what many consider the best squad in the world.
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I think he's done very well to turn around the circus that is Real Madrid, get them playing as a team and overhaul Barca in the process. He's done better than I expected, or at least quicker.
 
davisjw said:
I think their squad is rather average for a top side. You take away Ronaldo, and they have just OK players with a few quality. I'd say the same thing about our squad to be fair and Chelsea's.
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Who would you consider to have a better squad?

Take United, Vidic would get in for Pepe. But that's the only certainty for me. I think Rooney is better than Benzema, just, but Madrid fans I know don't think he is and it is definitely not a clear cut thing, especially given Benzema's form this year which I think has been better than Rooney's, although like I say I still think Rooney is slightly better.

Nani would be the only other one in for a shout, but whether he's better than Di Maria is pretty close. I'd possibly take him over Di Maria now, but at the start of the season before he got injured, Di Maria was outstanding and near enough their best player.

In 14 starts Di Maria has 5 goals and 14 assists.
In 23 starts Nani has 8 goals and 10 assists.

So it's doubtful whether Nani would get in. Who else is there? Welbeck has been one of our best players this year but he wouldn't get a look in.
 
Suedesi said:
I don't think so.

Par for the course.
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If winning the league and missing out on the Champions League final is par, what is considered good? They have to win everything?

Winning the league over this Barca side is a great achievement I reckon.
 
MikeUpNorth said:
Winning the league over this Barca side is a great achievement I reckon.
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You make it sound as if Madrid are a team of minnows and hugely worse than Barcelona. It just isn't true.

Why is beating 'this Barca' side such an achievement for 'this Madrid' team. Both are excellent. Also, I don't know how much of La Liga you watch but Barca haven't looked nearly as good as in previous seasons.
 
They needed to be knocked off their perch, so to speak.
 
People were talking about Barca as if they were the best team in the world etc. It is a great achievement to win the league with Madrid in the 2nd time of asking.

It's up there for me with when we win the league in 06/07 when Chelsea had won the league twice in a row with 90+ pts.
 
"I like the look of Mourinho, there's a bit of the young Brian Clough about him. For a start, he's a good-looking lad."

- Brian Clough
 
MikeUpNorth said:
If winning the league and missing out on the Champions League final is par, what is considered good? They have to win everything?

Winning the league over this Barca side is a great achievement I reckon.
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They will win the league largely because Barca under-performed against smaller teams.

They got knocked out in Copa early doors - by Barca

They had a lucky run into the CL semis and got comprehensively outplayed by the first decent team they met.
 
Theon said:
You make it sound as if Madrid are a team of minnows and hugely worse than Barcelona. It just isn't true.

Why is beating 'this Barca' side such an achievement for 'this Madrid' team. Both are excellent. Also, I don't know how much of La Liga you watch but Barca haven't looked nearly as good as in previous seasons.
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Of course not. Villa has been a huge loss for them, Abidal also.

Xavi / Iniesta have had largely average seasons, and Fabregas is having his annual drop in quality.

Not to mention that Pique has gone completely off the boil and Pedro hasn't played as much as previous seasons for whatever reason.

The Mascherano experiment at central defense has largely been a failure and Valdes continues to be an error prone keeper.

Barca's bright light has undoubtedly been Leo, but even he can't do everything by himself.
 
Despite considering him the best manager in the world, I didn't think he had a chance to win the league at Madrid. No amount of money can buy Barça's chemistry and Messi's brilliance.

What eventually happened, is that Barça lost consistency in the league, and he was there to capitalize on that.

2003-04 Champions League was weird and the semis had Chelsea, Mónaco, Coruña and Porto. Easy field? Yes, but he was the one that took advantage of that chance, unlike Ranieri or Deschamps. The previous year he did the same in the UEFA Cup.

Mourinho isn't the type to turn unthinkable odds on his favour (who is, in football?), he's the type to do the job, and nick any chance at winning. It looks easy, but looking at Chelsea and City's recent history, splashing money around isn't enough to build a winning team.

He's the most consistent manager in the world. He never fluked in the group stages of the Champions League. He was never embarrassed by a far inferior team. His most unbalanced aggregated defeat in the Champions League was a 2-0 loss to Manchester United in his first year at Inter.

We can all say that Madrid could do better (and they could) this year, but how long was it since they reached the semi-finals of the Champions League? With him they did it twice in a row.

Apart SAF, who works in a completely different way, in a very special club, Mourinho is by a large margin the best manager in the world. No one did so well in so little time.

He's given great tools to work, but he earned that right since his days at Leiria (a minnow club with less than 1000 supporters in their home games, but that amazingly was ahead of Porto in the table when we hired him).

It doesn't get any better than this.
 
For those of you pointing to Barca's lost of consistency as the reason for Madrid winning La Liga, I'd just like to point out Madrid are on course to break Barca's points record from the last few seasons.
 
FlawlessThaw said:
People were talking about Barca as if they were the best team in the world etc. It is a great achievement to win the league with Madrid in the 2nd time of asking.

It's up there for me with when we win the league in 06/07 when Chelsea had won the league twice in a row with 90+ pts.
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He does breed a ruthless efficiency with his teams doesn't he? madrid have been nothing short of brilliant in la liga this year. They managed to beat barcelona at the nou camp and thats not been done for quite a few years. They have also put an ass whooping to many a team in their league on a very consistent basis.

For me the most important thing Mourinho has accomplished is a gradual improvement in the team year on year. They went from clearly being worse than barcelona and getting beaten comprehensively by them in morale sapping losses, to where they are now. In short, he has done his version of Fergie vs. the dippers, knock barcelona off their perch. I know its only one season and its yet to be seen whether they can capitalise on their success this year but he certainly has them headed in the right direction.
 
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A question for the Mourinho fans: If Mourinho takes charge of Tottenham, where do you think they'll finish at the end of the season?
 
Danny1982 said:
A question for the Mourinho fans: If Mourinho takes charge of Tottenham, where do you think they'll finish at the end of the season?
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4th. You can't turn a side that barely makes top 4 into title challengers quickly unless you have the backing of hundreds of millions and top quality squad at his disposal.

Champions within three years with enough money, £30m+ a season.
 
Sarni said:
4th. You can't turn a side that barely makes top 4 into title challengers quickly unless you have the backing of hundreds of millions and top quality squad at his disposal.

Champions within three years with enough money, £30m+ a season.
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So he would do exactly what Mancini's done with City and Inter, or what Ancelotti's done with Chelsea and AC Milan...

Do you think if Mancini wins the league with Real Madrid (or Barcelona for that matter) next year, we should call him the best manager in the world?

The best job Mourinho has done is picking the right club at the right time.. Apart from that, he is a good manager, but never "the best by a mile" IMO.
 
Danny1982 said:
So he would do exactly what Mancini's done with City and Inter, or what Ancelotti's done with Chelsea and AC Milan...

Do you think if Mancini wins the league with Real Madrid (or Barcelona for that matter) next year, we should call him the best manager in the world?

The best job Mourinho has done is picking the right club at the right time.. Apart from that, he is a good manager, but never "the best by a mile" IMO.
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Pretty much, yeah. Although Ancelotti had a title winning core of that side at his dispisal and Mancini had £300m to spend on whoever he wished, Mourinho would have neither of that at Tottenham. His achievements at Chelsea were better than Mancini's at City because he took less time, but that's not a huge difference as he didn't have the same competition from United Mancini does.

If Mancini wins the CL with whoever and then repeats that feat with another side then yeah, he might have a shout. He's a good manager, that's for sure.
 
Danny1982 said:
So he would do exactly what Mancini's done with City and Inter, or what Ancelotti's done with Chelsea and AC Milan...

Do you think if Mancini wins the league with Real Madrid (or Barcelona for that matter) next year, we should call him the best manager in the world?

The best job Mourinho has done is picking the right club at the right time.. Apart from that, he is a good manager, but never "the best by a mile" IMO.
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Talking out of your arse.
I'm not on the Mourinho bandwagon but feck me, people got to appreciate what he has done.

The part about picking the right club only goes for Madrid and they badly wanted him. Porto or Inter were hardly the right clubs at the right time. He just did a fantastic jobs at both clubs.

He's not on Fergie's level, but he said that himself. Apart from him though he and Guardiola are the best that are out there.

BTW Mancini isnt a bad manager neither.
 
Godfather said:
Talking out of your arse.
I'm not on the Mourinho bandwagon but feck me, people got to appreciate what he has done.

The part about picking the right club only goes for Madrid and they badly wanted him. Porto or Inter were hardly the right clubs at the right time. He just did a fantastic jobs at both clubs.

He's not on Fergie's level, but he said that himself. Apart from him though he and Guardiola are the best that are out there.

BTW Mancini isnt a bad manager neither.
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Only Real Madrid?! Did you forget about Chelsea? Or the fact that Inter Milan were already the best team in Italy when he took over?!

If you tell me that if he manages Tottenham now he would still only finish fourth, then I'm not sure you have much of a proof that he is a mile better than Redknapp.. May be Redknapp can do the same if you give him the money Mourinho was handed! Ancelotti did it with Chelsea and AC Milan too, AND he won the CL as well (twice!). Let him manage Real Madrid, and he's probably bound to do the same.

It's not really a "miracle" what Mourinho did.. He is a very good coach (coach not manager), but I don't get the way people are trying to make him the "undisputed best on the planet", and the only one who can "guarantee" us success after SAF.

And you can't put Pep 1st/2nd best in the world either, that's equally stupid! He only managed for 4 years for God's sake! How old are you? Remember how Rijkaard was highly rated once?

And Mancini too?! I give up.
 
Danny1982 said:
A question for the Mourinho fans: If Mourinho takes charge of Tottenham, where do you think they'll finish at the end of the season?
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If he would take over and have a say in a few transfers they would be competing for the title. I'm not kidding.
 
Luminous Lizard said:
What managers do you rate then?
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There are many other good managers, Wenger is a very good manager. Capello is a very good manager. Hiddink is a very good coach. Del Bosque is a very good coach. Ancelotti is probably not the best manager but he still had very respectable successes...etc.

And by the way, I DO rate Mourinho highly.. I also think that Pep is a very good coach as well, but I'm not going to make a separate list for those two just because they had the chance to coach the best teams at their prime, with big amounts of money at their disposal for the most part of their career.

Let Pelligrini coach Real Madrid, and they will end up with 96 points at the end of the season.. Give Ancelotti and Mancini a chance and they can lead Chelsea and Inter to the league titles too. And, did you see Grant and Di Matteo take Chelsea to the CL final?
 
And yet, Mancini couldn't turn Inter into a side capable of European success, while Mourinho won the CL with them. I think he's brilliant at getting close to the maximum from his players, morphing footballers into teams.
 
Amir said:
And yet, Mancini couldn't turn Inter into a side capable of European success, while Mourinho won the CL with them. I think he's brilliant at getting close to the maximum from his players, morphing footballers into teams.
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Exactly, he's a master motivator with great tactical vision. He could manage any half decent team and make winners out of them, he's just ..erm... special.
 
Amir said:
And yet, Mancini couldn't turn Inter into a side capable of European success, while Mourinho won the CL with them.
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Avram Grant got further in Europe that Mourinho ever did with Chelsea. So is he a better manager than Mourinho?
 
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