I find it odd there's this perception of an infatuation or fanboyism surrounding Mourinho coming here. As if people's personal or emotional subjectivity towards him is biassing their judgement. He's on the road to being the best manager around, and there are some who think he already is, at 49. If he wins one more European Cup (which I'm sure he will do, either soon or eventually) he'll be in a club of only 2 with Paisley, and the only one to do it with 3 different clubs. He could very feasibly be considered the greatest of all time by the time he finishes. Objectively he's the perfect choice. Anyone who doesn't want him is the one with a personal or emotional bias.
Mourinho | New old Chelsea manager
- Thread starter Suedesi
- Start date
No - I'm saying the exact opposite.
Don't even bother, they're just referring to Canales and will not be persuaded that he is a fantastic manager.
Hmm.....I find a lot of people, incorrectly mind you, claim he's better. Pep while doing a wonderful job, has had it fecking easy. He's basically working for a company that loves him, and managing a squad that mostly adored him.
btw, not me saying anyone can in and do a job in those circumstances(Shearer etc didn't do better than predecessors really), but it's a great foundation to start with.
btw, not me saying anyone can in and do a job in those circumstances(Shearer etc didn't do better than predecessors really), but it's a great foundation to start with.
Or - goes to a side with less top quality players and doesn't do that well?
I like Guardiola, seems like a nice guy and clearly a talented manager. But he's very fortunate to be in charge of a side with some of the worlds best players, all playing at their peak.
He's had the benefit of a great youth system producing players to play the same way from an early age, and while he's undoubtedly put his stamp on Barca, he's continuned a job started by Cruyff anddevloped by Rijkaard.
Given their performcance in the league this season, seemingly trying to "crow bar" players into a side when it really didn't need changing perhaps its fair to say he's still a little naive? Would be interesting to see how he'd do at another club where he had to pick and buy the talent in himself.
I think Pep's very good manager and has definitely improved Barca from what they were in Rijkaard's last year to what they've become. That said, it would be interesting to see how he fares at a club that doesn't have three of the world's top five footballers in it when he arrives.
My only real issue with him is longevity, and how we probably couldn't offer it. I want a manager who will not look upon this as a challenge, but a commitment.
How realistic that is, balanced against the quality of the managers available, might make that too hard.
How realistic that is, balanced against the quality of the managers available, might make that too hard.
We have to get out of the SAF mentality. Managers across Europe cycle for about 4-5 years. SAF is just a freak the way he's had continued success for 25. Even Wenger long as his rein has been has struggled to build a 2nd successful team.
That said I'm still not sure about Mourinho. He's unquestionably a great manager but I hate his antics. SAF loves playing the us vs them attitude but Mourinho really takes it to the limits. Comes across as an absolute bellend.
ATM I think there's one really outstanding candidate for the United job. That is Pep Guardiola. I don't think he'd be interested though.
I'd take Pep over Mourinho all day long, I reckon he's more interested too.
I just don't want to see him here because he's a classless prick - simple as that.
He doesn't though. Probably not to the majority of pundits and certainly not to the fans of his teams, who adore him. And Fergie is hated as a grumpy, aggressive old battle-axe by everyone bar us. It's an odd mentality to dismiss Maureen because of his antics, or because you think he's a bell. Roy Keane was a bell. Cantona was a bit of a bell. Ronaldo too. Whether you think he comes across as a prat is irrelevant. He's a great, great manager, with the ability and mentality to take on the job undaunted.
There's nothing to argue regarding him coming here that doesn't come down to simply not quite liking him enough. No ones ever had that problem with SAF.
The "youth" argument is the only one that holds water. But I see that as as much of a consequence of his career so far as it is with a Moyes or O Neil playing ugly football to limited success because "they haven't had the funds" The difference being Maureen is a proven, and undoubted great, top tier manager. The "he can't play good football" has thankfully been put to bed as the rubbish it always was, and I'm sure the "he can't develop youth" one would be too if he arrived at a club that had an ingrained mentality to do so. He's even been on record before as saying he's aware of this legacy. There's nothing to suggest he wouldn't want or try to honour it.
I think some of you have warped expectations of managers and their commitment. To them it is a job, and they either move on or are moved on. Having SAF at the helm for 25 years is a freak, especially this day in age. To expect that off of someone else is just fantasy.
However, having said that, I do feel as though if Mourinho was to stay at a club for more than his usual 2-3 year stints, the perfect place would be United, and for several reasons.
Firstly, his love of the English game, media and general life here. And also, look at his previous clubs and why he left. Chelsea didn't work out due to the overbearing dominance of Abramovic. Something that wouldn't occur here.
Inter, I suppose, he felt that the club wasn't 'big' enough for him. And with Madrid, I doubt he enjoys the abuse and criticism from his own fans, and dealing with Perez. At United he wouldn't have to face any of these problems.
However, having said that, I do feel as though if Mourinho was to stay at a club for more than his usual 2-3 year stints, the perfect place would be United, and for several reasons.
Firstly, his love of the English game, media and general life here. And also, look at his previous clubs and why he left. Chelsea didn't work out due to the overbearing dominance of Abramovic. Something that wouldn't occur here.
Inter, I suppose, he felt that the club wasn't 'big' enough for him. And with Madrid, I doubt he enjoys the abuse and criticism from his own fans, and dealing with Perez. At United he wouldn't have to face any of these problems.
If "Yourtagname" wasn't our player, I can safely asume you'll put "yourtagname" on the list of classless prick players.
SAF didn't have anywhere near the sour reputation that Mourinho had when he came to us. He may be largely disliked by many people now but he's our prick and has been for 20+ years. Whereas Mourinho has been a complete cnut just about everywhere he has been. I'd support him if he came here but I'd rather us look elsewhere regardless of that having to mean we'd be going for someone with lower credentials than Mourinho.
The only way I see moyes sticking around for so long at everton is that he knows he don't have what it takes at the next level.
It's his comfort zone Everton, he won't be sacked, he's probably cruising his day job, doing enough to keep the fans happy (which is not much, probably just about everton's level)
Let's face it, no matter who comes in here, they'll probably in it for prestige, money and fame, and just because they want to stick around for decades doesn't mean Gill n co. will give him just that without winning things along.
SAF didn't plan to manage united for 25+ years, he sees it as a carreer jump, challenge, and it goes from there.
Ask him 25 years ago he'd probably laughing at the thought of managing United for 25 years.
Ideally we would like the likes of Ole, Keane, Giggs, Neviille or any other hardcore United players, but we can't have it all. It's one way or the other.
We're so spoiled by SAF we can sit here and put aside winning in favor of class, loyalty, beautiful football, youth development, united way etc. Ask liverpool, deep inside they'd throw that all for a league title.
Be careful what you wish for, the next 5 years after SAF is the defining period of the next 20 years to come, whether we'll fade away in obscenity ala liverpool or continue to be the powerhouse of world football is very much at stake.
It's his comfort zone Everton, he won't be sacked, he's probably cruising his day job, doing enough to keep the fans happy (which is not much, probably just about everton's level)
Let's face it, no matter who comes in here, they'll probably in it for prestige, money and fame, and just because they want to stick around for decades doesn't mean Gill n co. will give him just that without winning things along.
SAF didn't plan to manage united for 25+ years, he sees it as a carreer jump, challenge, and it goes from there.
Ask him 25 years ago he'd probably laughing at the thought of managing United for 25 years.
Ideally we would like the likes of Ole, Keane, Giggs, Neviille or any other hardcore United players, but we can't have it all. It's one way or the other.
We're so spoiled by SAF we can sit here and put aside winning in favor of class, loyalty, beautiful football, youth development, united way etc. Ask liverpool, deep inside they'd throw that all for a league title.
Be careful what you wish for, the next 5 years after SAF is the defining period of the next 20 years to come, whether we'll fade away in obscenity ala liverpool or continue to be the powerhouse of world football is very much at stake.
I'd break down and cry if the likes of Moyes or O'Neill got near our club.
I wouldn't say it's a given that Mourinho would leave after a few years, there's not much left for him to achieve, by the end of the season he'll have won his Trifecta, plus the Portuguese League, and he'll have won a European Cup with teams from at least two, possibly three different countries. It's possible he could move to Germany to try and add another League to his collection I suppose, but I'd expect that his next job will be one that he wants to remain in for the long haul. Assuming he's not in for the long haul at Madrid.
In any case, we're unlikely to get a manager whose tenure approaches Arsene Wenger's at Arsenal, let alone Ferguson's, if Mourinho came to us, won us a few League titles and a CL Title or two, then left for Germany after 3 years one could hardly say that is a bad outcome. If we went for a bargain bin manager like David Moyes then we could expect him to stay for as long as he's wanted, but that's only because no other top side would go for someone with only 3 LMA Manager of the Year awards and a Division Two Championship on their CV.
In any case, we're unlikely to get a manager whose tenure approaches Arsene Wenger's at Arsenal, let alone Ferguson's, if Mourinho came to us, won us a few League titles and a CL Title or two, then left for Germany after 3 years one could hardly say that is a bad outcome. If we went for a bargain bin manager like David Moyes then we could expect him to stay for as long as he's wanted, but that's only because no other top side would go for someone with only 3 LMA Manager of the Year awards and a Division Two Championship on their CV.
Just as many people love Jose as hate him. This "sour" reputation is only to those who don't like him. And only these people are being biased and emotional about his possible appointment. I don't get it personally. He's by far the most rational, sensible choice. He's also not that much of a cnut. He plays the game as well as SAF.
Well, that's a bit bonkers. If it were a case of there being many managers of such ilk and he was the only cnut, then fair enough. But as it stands he's not only one of the best candidates, he's one of the only candidates who is one of the best candidates.
Completely. The managerial equivalent of signing Charlie Adam.
What about a recent ex player like Giggs or Solskjaer?
Even worse. I reckon people who want someone like Giggs or Solskjaer to take over are mental. What possible right does Giggs have to manage a club like United? Maybe in the future if he proves himself as a manager, maybe then we can start to even consider it.
Although, just for your info, Giggs isn't an ex-player.
Apart from the eye gouge recently. I really don't think Mourinho did anything wrong. It could have been a mind game all along, part of the tactic to shield his player (which IMHO works brilliantly), or probably something to keep himself motivated, siege mentality, god knows what you call it. Sure it's controversial, but at least he delivers, rather than be a media friendly pussy of a manager, that wants to play mr. nice guy in front of every one.
When you can come into Inter, Chelsea, Madrid and stamp the circus of a player they have, you must have been doing the right thing.
PS: SAF kicks the boot at Beckham after all, fecks keano and stam off (right or wrong, he is a cnut in the eyes of many non united fans)
I also don't like the "ex player" thing because it's far more often likely to tar a great reputation than bolster it.
That, and well, none of our ex-managers so far have shown anything to suggest they are world class managers, at least not yet, certainly not worth taking a risk on. I very much doubt Giggs or Solskjaer is likely to change that in the next few years, well, Giggs obviously won't.
No I agree. I'd be worried about their reputations being ruined over a poor managerial spell. Although with Pep it has showed it can work (albeit it helps if you inherit the best squad in the world).
It's also never the average players that get brought up in such discussions. Why would Giggs or Scholes be any better at managing than John O Shea? It's an overly romantic notion.
Always thought that, not to mention O'Shea incidentally always came across as very intelligent. It's a dream really that is far more likely to end up as a nightmare. I'd like to see the threads on here when Keane decided to go into management, I can't remember them now.
Ole does have something special about him as a manager. But the United job will come up too soon for him. He'd need to be successful for a while before being considered.
I don't think Giggs is cut out for management. Maybe coaching but I think he will probably take over from Bobby Charlton as the face of the club after retirement.
Moyes and O'Neill would be crap choices. I think Moyes will be found out at a bigger club.
I don't think Giggs is cut out for management. Maybe coaching but I think he will probably take over from Bobby Charlton as the face of the club after retirement.
Moyes and O'Neill would be crap choices. I think Moyes will be found out at a bigger club.
Another point regarding youth development i would like to add:
SAF/Wenger have the luxury to blood the youngster, the academy, scouting network, phylosophy of football was instilled by them, they build the youth setup put it simply. Not because they emphasised on it, but they have been there long enough it goes naturally.
I don't think Moyes/O'neill etc have the guts to put their trust on the youngster knowing the pressure of succeeding SAF, the fans probably wouldn't be as lenient towards newcomer, and "it might / might not work out".
For the class of 92 to happen is a rare occassion in footballing history (much the same can be said about current Barca team), you just have to have the star lined up at the correct moment, having a youth biased manager doens't always guarantee anything.
At least with mourinho, his reputation alone enough to buy him a couple of barren years, giving him time to properly set up his foundation. As much as we hate the scouse, I bet when we're in their position, our fans won't be too far behind in bitterness level, and just looking at how they want KK out. Heck they can't even shake the ghost of the FSW, let alone the great SAF
SAF/Wenger have the luxury to blood the youngster, the academy, scouting network, phylosophy of football was instilled by them, they build the youth setup put it simply. Not because they emphasised on it, but they have been there long enough it goes naturally.
I don't think Moyes/O'neill etc have the guts to put their trust on the youngster knowing the pressure of succeeding SAF, the fans probably wouldn't be as lenient towards newcomer, and "it might / might not work out".
For the class of 92 to happen is a rare occassion in footballing history (much the same can be said about current Barca team), you just have to have the star lined up at the correct moment, having a youth biased manager doens't always guarantee anything.
At least with mourinho, his reputation alone enough to buy him a couple of barren years, giving him time to properly set up his foundation. As much as we hate the scouse, I bet when we're in their position, our fans won't be too far behind in bitterness level, and just looking at how they want KK out. Heck they can't even shake the ghost of the FSW, let alone the great SAF
Liam Miller will end up being the best manager out of players in the Fergie era. You ehard it hear first.
There's also the risk of a Dalglish situation, where things completely unrelated to management ability are used to argue in favour of keeping a manager on.
Cantona always gets brought up too. Madness. A year ago he was playing a gay assassin in a French comedy thriller. He'd have all the same problems as Keane and more. I'd much rather he stayed an enigmatic majesterial icon than the bloke who came back from acting and modelling in Kooples ads to be sacked after 6 months for fighting a linesman and calling the Referees Association a bunch of cock sucking elephant droppings.
Don't think anyone is serious when they mention Cantona. It's like the ideal situation, Cantona leading us to glory. But anyone thinking with their brain and not their heart realises what a catastrophe it would be!
Mourinho is the pragmatist's choice.
Much rather that than for leading us to mid table obscurity.
What about Rafa 
What about Rafa
Rafael is a bit young for a player manager role, and has shown no evidence of having the necessary tactical acumen.
Oh he'd do that too. He'd become furious that Ashley Young took more than 2 touches to control and release a ball in his own half away at Wigan, spit at him in the dressing room and demand we sign an avant garde french jazz poet instead, as he'd be "more in tune with his philosophy."
Bollocks. Maybe some let their personal opinion of his character cloud their judgement of him as a manager, maybe I'm one of them and just lack the self-awareness. But I'd also be willing to bet that what you argued against - others overlooking reality from being swept up in the myth of the man - is equally as true. What I will do is argue that there are valid reasons as to why he's not the right choice until I'm blue in the face.
It comes down to not believing Mourinho to be 'United material.' That's probably subjective bollocks which is difficult to argue one way or the other, but I believe there are footballing reasons to back it up.
To try to clear the more personal/subjective reasons out the way first: Mourinho is the 'perfect choice', if all that matters is winning trophies. I think there's a decent argument to be made for him coming in for a couple of years immediately after Ferguson to steady the ship, but I'd be worried at what cost to the club that would be. Whether it is bollocks or not, I believe that this club has a unique identity. Mourinho acts the utter bastard but everyone forgives him because he's a winner, the biggest kind - a self-aggrandising one (I cannot believe that you are anyone else could type with a straight face: 'he's also not that much of a cnut'). I think he'd cause the club damage coming here. People always reply that Fergie is a bastard too but I see differences, though again you may well be right that this is personal bias. Just because you have a manager who is a bastard doesn't mean you should replace him with another though. Ferguson has only hurt this club through personal bollocks a couple of times, I'm thinking mainly the Rock of Gibraltar fiasco. He'd given enough to the club by that time to be forgiven (again about winning). All his other bastardry is done for the benefit of the club. Mourinho is exactly the same but ramped up even further. That in itself is not a bad thing, but I think Fergie gets away with it because of his position in the game. He is the godfather of English football, his relationship with those in the game, the press, allows him to take certain liberties. Mourinho doesn't have that. Maybe he could tone it down in the future to an acceptable level, but he's turned every club he's managed at into a circus. You look at public opinion when he poked Vilanova in the eye (can anyone give an example of Ferguson ever doing anything like that?) and pretty much no-one wanted him here. Now he's going to win the title, it's all changed. People forgive winners anything. I just don't think winning is enough at United.
You look at the clubs he has been at (I don't know enough about the position at Porto at the time): Chelsea, Inter, Madrid - all were desperate for success with a win-now mentality. Abramovich wanted instant glory, Inter needed to crack Europe with their one last shot, Madrid who are usually more like us needed an instant fix to break Barca's monopoly. I don't think he gets the Madrid job if Madrid had had a winning side the last few years.
I don't think this 'burnout' issue after he leaves is all rubbish. For sure it's used as a weak excuse by managers following him in who can't match his management. But it's also because Mourinho has always been about win-now. Sustained success is the hardest thing in football, just look out our title challengers or Barca now. Mourinho is unproven in this regard but that alone is not reason enough to give him the job. He also stays for short stints because he alienates pretty much everyone wherever he goes, except of course the club's supporters and players, because he delivers that instant success people crave. You might think what else matters, but if you're planning for long-term success, you don't want your manager pissing off just about everyone in positions of power within the club, within the game, the media. Would Mourinho have handled our ownership situation in the same way Fergie has? Could we be looking at a similar situation to Chelsea (or a lesser extent Inter) in terms of player power, after his time here? I feel we're already halfway there with our dealings with Mendes, but what effect would Mourinho have on our leadership structure? There's a very good chance that Madrid will have serious issues when Mourinho leaves and that will not just be down to the absence of his coaching. I don't think any one figure is worth the trouble he brings.
1. The title he won is no myth
2. What are your definition of United Materials? Does SAF possess them 25 years ago?
3. Call me glory hunter, we wouldn't be respected and held with respect and adoration without trophies. Yes, trophy does matter. Success is the thing that differentiates the best from the rest. Fans loyalty, culture, history... heck Millwall have them all as well.
4. The cost of having a souness far outweights having a few cnutish moment from Jose (which we probably enjoy when he's our cnut)
5. Would we forgive Rooney, Keane, Cantona, SAF if they're not our cnut?
6. Again SAF didn't have all that respect overnight. If you want to compare Jose with SAF, compare him to the young AF managing United coming from aberdeen
7. Those clubs you mentioned didn't have the luxury of having a born and bred winner in SAF. Not every club does.
8. Who is proven on the sustained success ground? those that probably were was almost as old as the man they replace
9. The aftermath of SAF retirement could have been the biggest cross to bear by whomever succeeds him, I don't know what the future holds, but Jose is my best bet. If he can't handle the changing room and the board, no one does.