Morgan Schneiderlin | BBC: Morgan Schneiderlin is currently having a medical at Manchester United.

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Invictus said:
Seen a few of comparisons with Carrick, and I just don't see it.

Carrick's biggest attribute (and the primary reason why he's sorely missed in the starting XI) is his ability to control the rhythm of the match - he has an innate clock which allowes him to retain the ball with consummate ease when we need to lower the tempo, or spread it efficiently to more attacking players when we need to go on the offensive. There are very few players who can do that on a consistent basis, and even fewer who offer a similar degree of defensive astuteness. He is essentially a #6 Xabi Alonso type of player whose forte is his excellent passing range from deeper areas, alongwith great positional awareness to shore up the defensive third of the pitch - which makes him an ideal 'defensive' midfielder for our system.

Schneiderlin on the other hand, is stylistically like Blaise Matuidi or even a watered down version of Vidal - a turbocharged, versatile, primarily box-to-box #8 midfielder who provides a bit of everything, has very few weaknesses to his game, but might not be able to influence the game in which Carrick can. So the thing is, even if we do sign him, Van Gaal will still need someone who can replace Carrick as the subsidiary playmaker of the team for the longer term. Essentially Schneiderlin is more like Van Gaal's alternate to Strootman, someone who could potentially dislodge Fellaini and maybe bring more defensive balance to the team - in the way Owen Hargreaves did for Fergie's European Cup winners. Infact Hargreaves might be the perfect stylistic and functional comparison for Schneiderlin, rather than Carrick.
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This. Good post.
 
Anyone else waiting for the 'senior sources at Man Utd deny any interest in Morgan Schneiderlin'?

I'm such a pessimistic transfer muppet!
 
Invictus said:
Seen a few of comparisons with Carrick, and I just don't see it.

Carrick's biggest attribute (and the primary reason why he's sorely missed in the starting XI) is his ability to control the rhythm of the match - he has an innate clock which allowes him to retain the ball with consummate ease when we need to lower the tempo, or spread it efficiently to more attacking players when we need to go on the offensive. There are very few players who can do that on a consistent basis, and even fewer who offer a similar degree of defensive astuteness. He is essentially a #6 Xabi Alonso type of player whose forte is his excellent passing range from deeper areas, alongwith great positional awareness to shore up the defensive third of the pitch - which makes him an ideal 'defensive' midfielder for our system.

Schneiderlin on the other hand, is stylistically like Blaise Matuidi or even a watered down version of Vidal - a turbocharged, versatile, primarily box-to-box #8 midfielder who provides a bit of everything, has very few weaknesses to his game, but might not be able to influence the game in which Carrick can. So the thing is, even if we do sign him, Van Gaal will still need someone who can replace Carrick as the subsidiary playmaker of the team for the longer term. Essentially Schneiderlin is more like Van Gaal's alternate to Strootman, someone who could potentially dislodge Fellaini and maybe bring more defensive balance to the team - in the way Owen Hargreaves did for Fergie's European Cup winners. Infact Hargreaves might be the perfect stylistic and functional comparison for Schneiderlin, rather than Carrick.
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Schneiderlin is to Carrick what Carrick was to Keane. Not like-for-like, but a very sensible replacement imo.
 
Invictus said:
Seen a few of comparisons with Carrick, and I just don't see it.

Carrick's biggest attribute (and the primary reason why he's sorely missed in the starting XI) is his ability to control the rhythm of the match - he has an innate clock which allowes him to retain the ball with consummate ease when we need to lower the tempo, or spread it efficiently to more attacking players when we need to go on the offensive. There are very few players who can do that on a consistent basis, and even fewer who offer a similar degree of defensive astuteness. He is essentially a #6 Xabi Alonso type of player whose forte is his excellent passing range from deeper areas, alongwith great positional awareness to shore up the defensive third of the pitch - which makes him an ideal 'defensive' midfielder for our system.

Schneiderlin on the other hand, is stylistically like Blaise Matuidi or even a watered down version of Vidal - a turbocharged, versatile, primarily box-to-box #8 midfielder who provides a bit of everything, has very few weaknesses to his game, but might not be able to influence the game in which Carrick can. So the thing is, even if we do sign him, Van Gaal will still need someone who can replace Carrick as the subsidiary playmaker of the team for the longer term. Essentially Schneiderlin is more like Van Gaal's alternate to Strootman, someone who could potentially dislodge Fellaini and maybe bring more defensive balance to the team - in the way Owen Hargreaves did for Fergie's European Cup winners. Infact Hargreaves might be the perfect stylistic and functional comparison for Schneiderlin, rather than Carrick.
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That's why the Gundogan rumours fit like a glove, perfect double pivot, if Gundogan can get back to his best form of course.
 
I'd be so happy if this goes through. Would take Fellaini's position in the first team I imagine, though play like more orthodox centre midfielder. Would make us more solid in the middle against the better sides when we have to defend and try and regain control over a game.
 
Invictus said:
Seen a few of comparisons with Carrick, and I just don't see it.

Carrick's biggest attribute (and the primary reason why he's sorely missed in the starting XI) is his ability to control the rhythm of the match - he has an innate clock which allowes him to retain the ball with consummate ease when we need to lower the tempo, or spread it efficiently to more attacking players when we need to go on the offensive. There are very few players who can do that on a consistent basis, and even fewer who offer a similar degree of defensive astuteness. He is essentially a #6 Xabi Alonso type of player whose forte is his excellent passing range from deeper areas, alongwith great positional awareness to shore up the defensive third of the pitch - which makes him an ideal 'defensive' midfielder for our system.

Schneiderlin on the other hand, is stylistically like Blaise Matuidi or even a watered down version of Vidal - a turbocharged, versatile, primarily box-to-box #8 midfielder who provides a bit of everything, has very few weaknesses to his game, but might not be able to influence the game in which Carrick can. So the thing is, even if we do sign him, Van Gaal will still need someone who can replace Carrick as the subsidiary playmaker of the team for the longer term. Essentially Schneiderlin is more like Van Gaal's alternate to Strootman, someone who could potentially dislodge Fellaini and maybe bring more defensive balance to the team - in the way Owen Hargreaves did for Fergie's European Cup winners. Infact Hargreaves might be the perfect stylistic and functional comparison for Schneiderlin, rather than Carrick.
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You make some good points but there is more than one way to play football, we don't have to find a Carrick clone, as long as there is balance in the team we can find stylistic alternatives.
 
Mystry said:
I'd be so happy if this goes through. Would take Fellaini's position in the first team I imagine, though play like more orthodox centre midfielder. Would make us more solid in the middle against the better sides when we have to defend and try and regain control over a game.
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Can't see him taking Fellaini's position as he is primarily right footed and you know how anal LVG is about right footed players playing on the left unless they are false wingers.
 
Just home from 5 aside and saw the rumours on twitter. 25mil is a steal. Fantastic player who'll add serious quality to an already decent midfield. Some are saying he's fit to replace Carrick, while others say he can't bring that assuredness and metronome-like control that Carrick brings.

I'm excited too, but for me he's a dynamic box to box midfielder who can defend pass and attack well, like Vidal as some have said but for me he won't be able to replace Carrick. not yet anyway
 
Very good signing, hope this is true. He will replace Carrick defensively, we'd still need someone like Gundogan to dictate from deep.
 
Sport Witness' take on it:

A bolt from the blue, or perhaps 'le bleu', came on Sunday when InfoSport in France tweeted 'INFO @infosportplus: Morgan #Schneiderlin (midfielder #Southampton ) very close to #ManUnited rather than #Arsenal.'

That immediately caused a storm which is currently building to armageddon levels, but we'll be honest... we didn't really know much about InfoSport, other than learning they are clearly big fans of hashtags.

Morgan #Schneiderlin has been repeatedly linked with a move to Arsenal for months, on more than one occasion it's been claimed as a done deal. British newspapers said French newspaper L'Equipe stated a deal had been agreed - but L'Equipe had never claimed such a thing. The Secret Footballer appeared to copy those L'Equipe claims and then everyone gave it more credit than if it had just been Dave Kitson saying it.

Despite the mess surrounding the rumours it all made sense and that was largely because Schneiderlin himself has flirted with a move to Arsenal. Indeed, it had been the Southampton player who started it in March 2014 when he told RTL, picked up by Foot Mercato, "Arsenal? I have three year contract, so it will not be easy. It is also my dream to one day play at a great club, so why not?"

Who better to ask about InfoSport than our French specialist Tom Coast, and he told us "They’re part of the Canal+ group. Big sports channel in France... basically Canal+’s idea of Sky Sports News."

There you have it, this one sounds like it's going to build.
 
Fully Fledged said:
Can't see him taking Fellaini's position as he is primarily right footed and you know how anal LVG is about right footed players playing on the left unless they are false wingers.
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Fellaini's right footed..
 
Fully Fledged said:
Can't see him taking Fellaini's position as he is primarily right footed and you know how anal LVG is about right footed players playing on the left unless they are false wingers.
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Fellaini is right footed.
 
Fact is we won't find a Carrick replacement in terms of attributes. That person doesn't exist. However, Schneirderlin would ultimately take his place within the 11 at the base of the midfield.
 
Fully Fledged said:
Yeah but he didn't buy him he is playing there because we don't have a left footed player who can play there. I don't think he will buy a right footed player to play that position.
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Who's left footed that we could play there?
 
The bitterness from some of the Arsenal fans online and on Twitter at the moment. "I'm glad he's going to United. He's not even that good". Lighten up, you muppets, your team's just won the FA Cup.
 
Isnt Schneiderlin more similar to Blind than he is with Carrick? I wouldnt say he is the ideal player to replace Carrick in term of player attributes. Schneiderlin is definetly much more defensive minded than Blind, but he will not add Carrick composure or passing attribute. Nevertheless, I feel Schneiderlin might be able to do a better job as he is much more aggressive and in the opponent face. Like Coquolin from Arsenal, who has improved their game much more than Arteta ever would.

pablotatt said:
Fact is we won't find a Carrick replacement in terms of attributes. That person doesn't exist. However, Schneirderlin would ultimately take his place within the 11 at the base of the midfield.
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Your last sentence echoed what I was thinking. However, their are a lot of players that shares Carrick attribute. William Carvalho, Javi Martinez, Sergio Busqet, Xabi Alonso, Mikel Arteta, and so on.
 
Finally linked to him. Would be a great signing IMO. Make it happen Woody!
 
ivaldo said:
You make some good points but there is more than one way to play football, we don't have to find a Carrick clone, as long as there is balance in the team we can find stylistic alternatives.
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Fair enough. Though I'm not talking about finding a Carrick clone per se. Very rarely do teams find a perfect holistic match for ageing greats, it might even next to impossible. But from an overall midfield setup, you'll then have two #8s (kinda) in Herrera and Schneiderlin, but no real long term plan for the director of play position - which is a highly important element in the Dutch 4-3-3 setup with very defined roles for each of the 3 midfield players.

One might argue that while Schneiderlin will provide great defensive workrate, he won't directly impact two of our biggest concerns in central midfield - the need for a creative attacking player who transitions into the final 3rd from central areas, and someone who can adequately replace Carrick's expansive passing range in the long term. And that gives me pause. That said, if Van Gaal can suitably tailor his approach to a slightly more counter-attacking style of football, maybe push Herrera further up the pitch as a pseudo #10, and make the system work, then there might not actually be any reason to complain. :)
 
Amadaeus said:
You echoed what I was thinking. However, their are a lot of players that shares Carrick attribute. William Carvalho, Javi Martinez, Sergio Busqet, Xabi Alonso, Mikel Arteta, and so on.
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Schneiderlin is a better passer than Carvarlho or Javi Martinez and they have nothing in common with Carrick.
 
Wow. Pleasant surprise, even just to be linked like this. Would love this move. The energy we'd have in that centre.:drool:
 
I'm interesting in knowing, how many here see him as a deep holding midfielder like Carrick, and how many see him as box to box who can defend very well. Ie he can play both, but what do people feel he's best at?
 
Amadaeus said:
:lol: he might be better at short intricate passes, but Carvalho and Martinez overall passing including short and range are greater.
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Fair enough, but they still have nothing in common with Carrick, who is a midfield organizer.
 
Invictus said:
Fair enough. Though I'm not talking about finding a Carrick clone per se. Very rarely do teams find a perfect holistic match for ageing greats, it might even next to impossible. But from an overall midfield setup, you'll then have two #8s (kinda) in Herrera and Schneiderlin, but no real long term plan for the director of play position - which is a highly important element in the Dutch 4-3-3 setup with very defined roles for each of the 3 midfield players.

One might argue that while Schneiderlin will provide great defensive workrate, he won't directly impact two of our biggest concerns in central midfield - the need for a creative attacking player who transitions into the final 3rd from central areas, and someone who can adequately replace Carrick's expansive passing range in the long term. And that gives me pause. That said, if Van Gaal can suitably tailor his approach to a slightly more counter-attacking style of football, maybe push Herrera further up the pitch as a pseudo #10, and make the system work, then there might not actually be any reason to complain. :)
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We already have that creative influence in midfield in Herrera, once we have more steel in midfield without having to rely on Fellaini then Herrera will play further forward.

Hopefully there is some substance in these Der Westen Gundogan rumours, he certainly has the ability to dictate play and has a wonderful passing range.
 
Walters_19_MuFc said:
From the way Van Gaal talks about a 'right footed holding midfielder, it suggest that he might go with two holders and an attacking midfielder next season. If this is the case, Carrick holding, whilst Schneiderlin plays box to box would be great, in my opinion. It would also mean Schneiderlin could play as a 6, with Herrera coming in as an 8, if/when Carrick is injured/rested.
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I agree with your first sentence but have a different expectation.

Van Gaal's love of balance and having left and right footed players complimenting each other makes me think Blind will be a part of our midfield next season. I think he wants a right footed midfielder to play alongside him because he cannot rely on Carrick due to age and injuries.

Imo our midfield next season will be Blind + a new signing (last week it looked like Gundogan, today it looks like Schneiderlin) and then Herrera ahead of them given license to push forward and press high up the pitch.

I don't expect people will like hearing this as Blind does not seem highly regarded on this forum but Van Gaal clearly rates him, last season he was given more minutes than all but four other players.
 
Amadaeus said:
:lol: he might be better at short intricate passes, but Carvalho and Martinez overall passing including short and range are greater. And they have more similar trait to Carrick than Schneilderlin does.
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Carvalho must have improved hugely since I saw him. His passing was nothing special at all. 'Range' certainly didnt come to mind.
 
Invictus said:
One might argue that while Schneiderlin will provide great defensive workrate, he won't directly impact two of our biggest concerns in central midfield - the need for a creative attacking player who transitions into the final 3rd from central areas, and someone who can adequately replace Carrick's expansive passing range in the long term. And that gives me pause. That said, if Van Gaal can suitably tailor his approach to a slightly more counter-attacking style of football, maybe push Herrera further up the pitch as a pseudo #10, and make the system work, then there might not actually be any reason to complain. :)
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Surely Di Maria is the answer to your first problem, and why could Schneiderlin not replace Carrick's passing in the long term? Schneiderlin's passing is already approaching Carrick's level, and our Michael didn't start dictating games with his passing until he was 29-30.
 
Glory Glory Denis Irwin said:
Surely Di Maria is the answer to your first problem, and why could Schneiderlin not replace Carrick's passing in the long term? Schneiderlin's passing is already approaching Carrick's level, and our Michael didn't start dictating games with his passing until he was 29-30.
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That's just not true.
 
Great set of posts @Invictus

Hargreaves is exactly the name that sprung to mind this end too. And what did Hargreaves arrival bring? The ability to defensively counteract a top heavy, high intensity 4-3-3 with an interchanging front 3 through great pressing, forcing errors and interceptions. Something Memphis' arrival may require the team to manage more effectively eventually should his promise be fulfilled and duties stay toward the final third a la Ronaldo. Not to mention a further marquee signing in the future.

Louis may tweak this into a 4-1-4-1 or 4-2-3-1 variant but it provides a platform for 4 attack minded players at least.
 
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