So you complained about someone making assumptions then do exactly that yourself while also ignoring what people who actually know Joyce and have worked with him on a daily basis say.
I didn't assume anything about Phelan. You are trying to hype Joyce based on some parents and players being happy with his ability to ground them and instill good habits, which I never disputed.
If Joyce had only ever worked with 18 year old apprentices you might have a point but he has worked with plenty of players who have been on big contracts and have been in or around the first team just as Gray is and most have given him a lot of credit for helping them develop and making them ready for first team football.
Right, but has he improved them technically or tactically? I haven't seen any evidence of players improving drastically in these areas. Maybe others weren't impressed with the likes of Weir and Willock at U18 level, but I personally was.
There's a big difference between being disciplined and learning how to actually make it as a professional player and Joyce does a good job of preparing players for what it takes to actually be a senior footballer.
What do you think he does with them that prepares them better than say an Arsenal, Liverpool or City coach?
I'm not painting them as naive it's a fact that many of the players who have come up from the under 18's are naive from both a tactical and mental standpoint with many having gotten that far mainly on talent and many thinking they've already made it or are guaranteed to be Premier League players because they play for United. I don't see how GCSE results have anything to do with what I said.
Well, footballers are cocky in general. One of the reasons why we attract young players is because they are told that while they might not necessarily make it here at United, we will do our best to get them to a level that's good enough for a career in the game. And we do it well.
It sounds like you are painting them as naive kids with little discipline or realistic goals, but that's incorrect because the attention to school education is teaching them knowledge outside of the game, so that they are well rounded young men. The parents play a part as well. If they set a bad example, the player will likely follow their lead. Some of them plan for life after United. Some have higher ambitions than others.
I never said he's irreplaceable but the idea that any half decent manager could do the job that he does shows a lack of knowledge of how much he actually does and how difficult the role can be at times.
Managing some of the most talented prospects in the country, with state of the art training facilities and equipment, as well as access to expert fitness coaches and sports scientists, is pretty easy compared to 90% of the other Reseve team manager positions. Do you think he's superior to those before him? It's a dream job for any enthusiastic coach who enjoys working with young people.
Think of the coaches at less glamorous clubs who are still expected to produce first team players. Crewe and Fulham, for example. At least our coaches rarely have to worry about players being poached from U18 level upwards.
