I swear Ole had his wicked way with their spouses, the way they go on about him. Weird isn't even the word.
Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch
- Thread starter Samid
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Should have be sacked after that result. But they are not big club anymore. Just like us. (SPURS game)
I take it back. They're not even well organised. Embarrassing that we lost to them
What a bs by saying objectives are not the same. The excuses arteta gets is amusing. So emery and wenger were lambasted for finishing 5th but for arteta it is fine even if he finishes 8th. Yeah he won fa cup but so did wenger. Arteta here has been termed an elite manager, a top 6.PL manager and yet apart from organizing the defense he hasn't done much. His team plays a paint dry football. Atleast Ole and Lampard's team play football pleasing to the eyes.
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Their xG is woeful. No creativity in that midfield and if they don't score first they will struggle. Partey is a decent signing mind.
I know we're United so clickbait but journalism (lol) nowadays is wank. Create an angle, stick United in there and go.
Before the Everton game, there were three stories about Ole/United on BBC (and loads around SkY, papers, websites) .... one game from the sack, can't cope, Poch ready to take over...
Yes, there are issues. Yes, we were poor v Istanbul. Yes, we're inconsistent.
But City and Arsenal aren't that far away and their managers get fawned over (especially by that jug eared, useless, grinning wanker) as the greatest of all time and the next great thing respectively.
The agenda/bias is pathetic. We've seen this stat about Ole Vs Arteta.. short space of time yes, but there's the one I posted about Oles first 100 games Vs Klopps and Ole is better in that too.
I'd love to see a journalist write a decent, balanced piece (pros and cons).
And I'd love to win the lottery.
- Less than 12 months into his management career
- Already won a trophy (beat 3 of last season’s best sides to achieve it)
- Better win %
- Doesn’t have the same resources as Ole (free transfers and 1 in, 1 out deals)
- Tasked with turning around one of biggest clubs in the country who are in even worse shape than United (16 years without a title)
- Was able to marginalise Özil (their Alexis Sánchez) without losing the dressing
room - Has successfully changed the culture and playing style quickly
- I feel that he can evolve the team if given time
- Arsenal’s squad is inferior
- They need consistent top 4 finishes before a title challenge is realistic
- Still only 4 points off 4th after playing Liverpool, City and Leicester already
Unlike those two, Ole has been managing for over 12 years and coaching even longer. Almost 2 years at United. Good resources. Strong squad. Hasn’t been able to evolve beyond counter attacking football. Suits away games. OT a big concern.
I rate Arteta higher than both. I don’t think people realise how big of a task he has on his hands. Especially with such an emotional online fanbase who still think it’s 2004. They have a long way to go before they can compete for titles again. I doubt he will get the time to evolve his current style before they turn on him. Such is the current climate.
LvG showed how hard it is to change the culture of a club. United fans wanted the “United way”, so he was on a slippery slope to begin with.
Arteta’s 9 PL defeats as Arsenal manager came against City x2, Villa x2, Chelsea Leicester, Liverpool, Spurs and Brighton. Maybe Villa are their bogey team now.
Of those 9 defeats, 4 were bad results (tonight, Chelsea, Brighton and Spurs). Let leads slip late against both Chelsea and Spurs.
He’s beaten United x2, Chelsea, City, Leicester, Liverpool and Wolves. And also drawn against Liverpool (won on penalties) Chelsea and Leicester.
He’s doing a better job than most are giving him credit for. If he’s poor, then Ole is atrocious.
No doubt about it though, he will need to adapt his tactics for certain games moving forward. 2021 will be a big year for Arteta and Arsenal. The wheels will either fall off or he‘ll find a driver with some flair and panache to get them over the line. Needs to find their Bruno in January. A creative CM/AM who can help them against a low block. Another CB wouldn’t hurt either. Gabriel has potential. And we‘ve yet to see Saliba due to personal issues. A CB to replace Mustafi and Sokratis who will both likely leave the club soon.
FK Sloboda played against Spurs?
If they were (well organized) Martinez wouldn't have been able to play himself into a big money transfer with just over one months worth of games.
Arsenal seem to have our number for a while now. Palace also.
We need a sack watch thread for this fraud.
And I’m interested to know whether you think this dude is getting a job when he’s getting sacked.
And I’m interested to know whether you think this dude is getting a job when he’s getting sacked.
Stopped reading at "excelled at counter attacking only".
Seriously. mate, you really think that's how we play? You have the same agendas as pundits on TV against United.
Sit deep and hit them on the counter. sigh.
We have more joy on the counter attack than we do when dominating possession.
We simply struggle to create enough chances consistently against a low block. That is a fact. If you deny us space, we don’t create as many chances as we do when a game is stretched.
It’s Ole’s biggest flaw. We try to play other ways, but have very little success with it.
Glad to hear that TV pundits are on his case, as he had a free ride from many of his former teammates e.g. Keane, Rio, Neville, Scholes, Evra.
ehm, isn’t this applicable on every team?
Of course you are not going to create as many chances
It's not strictly counter attacking football. It's direct attacking approach. Which I really like better than possession football. There are games we won not just with "counter attacking" football.
The narrative is like that, everytime we win, it's counter attacking football. It's a false notion, really.
I thought we overreacted
I can guarantee that Arteta will never guide Arsenal to 3rd place, which Ole has done. Ole isn’t the best but he deserves some credit and has done some very good things as United manager.
What culture has he changed at Arsenal? They look the same to me, well apart from the playing style is worse.
As a seasoned admirer of AFTV I can agree wholeheartedly with this notion that he is 'potential for greatness'. Along with the 'criminally underrated' Moyes, he's one of the most entertaining coaches in the business.
We scored 3 goals against Everton. The opening 2 wasn’t counter attack and we had Everton pinned in their own half most of the half.
We won’t hear about that though
Seems more inspired by his time with Moyes than Pep. And it's in Willian's contract he has to start every game? Or is Pepe that bad?
The anti Poch defence states that Arteta must be a top manager because he’s won a trophy
That is how this game works actually
That's how we got the better of Pep and PSG last year. If you defend well that results in great difficulty for the opposition to create many chances. I don't have the stats but a sizable chunk of goals are "created" on the transition. This so called "counter style" has been the bread and butter of United for decades.Lets be honest, whatever trophy a manager wins, it doesnt mean much nowadays unless its the PL or the CL.
My mates raving about Arteta because he won the FA cup in his first season. I would love a trophy but I still also want CL football, if he cannot deliver that, you know it will be difficult to deliver the PL.
But you can see what Arteta vision is and every player knows their job...a team on the up! Absolutely no chance they will finish behind United!
Exactly. If United are poor or spunk 70mil on a player who doesn't perform its hedladline news but if arsenal do it, nothing is said.
Way more pressure at United than arsenal.
I don't get why our fans keep this comparison alive - Arsenal are not a club we want to be at the level of. They're essentially us in 5 years if we don't sort things out and it'd be a miracle if they get top 4 whereas we should be getting top 4.
Ole's only real comparison this season should be Lampard - both have now spent a lot (Frank now caught up given the initial transfer ban) and I'd say we have the 3rd and 4th best squads in the league. If we want to do the whole direct comparison thing they are only two who are pretty equal and have similar levels of squad quality and depth. Arsenal are more around Wolves and Everton's level for me - they'll be top 8 and with a good season top 6.
Ole's only real comparison this season should be Lampard - both have now spent a lot (Frank now caught up given the initial transfer ban) and I'd say we have the 3rd and 4th best squads in the league. If we want to do the whole direct comparison thing they are only two who are pretty equal and have similar levels of squad quality and depth. Arsenal are more around Wolves and Everton's level for me - they'll be top 8 and with a good season top 6.
Manutd are a bigger club, its simple as.
If United lost 3-0 at home, the manager would be called into question, rightly so.
People need to understand Spending alot does not mean anything unless it is spent correctly.
Frank wanted players to create and score more goals - he got that
Frank wanted a new LB - got that
He got ALL positions fixed.
We wanted a CDM, RW, LCB instead we got a CAM and ST.
I don’t think he’s a bad manager, in fact I’d say he’s got potential to be a good manager.
One thing he absolutely does not do though is play good football. He is a very very pragmatic manager. The Pep comparisons are extremely lazy, he is more Simeone. Really struggles tactically when forced to dictate the game. Similarly to Ole.
One thing he absolutely does not do though is play good football. He is a very very pragmatic manager. The Pep comparisons are extremely lazy, he is more Simeone. Really struggles tactically when forced to dictate the game. Similarly to Ole.
This is a very good summary for me. Yesterday was terrible, from start to finish, there's no denying that. Worst result & performance by far that I've seen under Arteta, by far.
Totally agree about the system as well, it's set up to be more solid & difficult to beat, & it works to a certain extent away from home. But it still has flaws attacking wise, & that's our major weakness. It's not working at all when we have to take the game to teams at home.
Our attack just doesn't function. Lacazette is not good enough to be a modern number 9 now. He's not physical enough, you can't play off him, he struggles to hold it up, the ball constantly bounces off him. Now, he's also not dynamic enough either. Ollie Watkins showed him how to play that role perfectly yesterday. The likes of Calvert-Lewin play it well. In fact, I'd probably take at least half the leagues number 9's to play that type of role over him. Probably more.
This is then compounded, when you have little creativity & play your main goalscorer out wide. The short term answer is surely to drop him & get Auba through the middle. Try & get more creativity around him, change to a 433 / 4231 variation to allow that to happen.
Bottom line is likely to be though, until we get more players in that have the skill set to play like he wants, we'll continue to stutter. I'm sure he'd have loved £250m this summer to try & fix all our problems in 1 window, but unfortunately not everyone gets that.
He’s similar to Ole in that he’s actually quite pragmatic and defensive but fans want to believe he will play attractive attacking football.
Sorry but we have to be fair and also point out Ole got Maguire (80m), AWB (50m), Bruno (65m) & James (15m). In addition to Cavani & Donny we also signed Telles. (Not inc the young wingers although Diallo will be here in Jan)
No more weak excuses. That goes for Lampard as well if you're a Chelsea fan - both have spent heavily on players they wanted to supplement already strong teams. It's up to them and their coaching teams to bring the best out of what they've got and they both have no reason not to be in that top four battle.
I appreciate that, I am not saying Ole does not have to take more responsibility.
The players you mention, yes but if you are a manager that needs certain positions, and you get players in positions you have, it does not help does it?
Its like Pep wanting a striker and they buy him another CM instead.
Don't get the hype over him. Sean Dyche could set them up as equally defensive and achieve similar results.
Fernandes cost £47m, the add ons would have the potential to increase the fee to £67.7m.
Arteta is the modern day George Graham. There's nothing wrong with that in itself but he was been portrayed as some kind of coaching genius in recent months.
I haven’t seen anyone say Ole plays good football for a while. Even his biggest supporters concede that he’s a defensive coach.
Arteta & Nuno are the two I see people saying “play good football” when they really don’t.
I think there's a lot of assumptions made by us fans as to what actually happens in a transfer window. Who is to say that Judge didn't say to Ole that Ziyech was available at that price (given we have a good relationship with Ajax you'd think it highly likely we knew he was going to move) but Ole only had eyes for Sancho? I think every club wants players every window and we are far from being the worst at bringing good ones in.
Yh just general numbers, James also cost more than 15m but not the point. Point is big transfers.