So surely, if United have rotten apples and Arsenal quality players, then they should easily finish above United this season?
The squad Ole built in 2 years got 2nd and El final, 2 years later Arteta got 5th? Night and day, you are right.
Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch
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So surely, if United have rotten apples and Arsenal quality players, then they should easily finish above United this season?
The squad Ole built in 2 years got 2nd and El final, 2 years later Arteta got 5th? Night and day, you are right.
As somebody who was a regularly reader of Redcafe for the entirety of the Ole reign I'm surprised that there are posters on here that are asking for evidence of the bad signings that he made, you must have read one of the million posts about to them in the past 6/8 months?
Also.. got Europa League Final.. after getting knocked out of the Champions League right? Embarrassingly so if I remember correctly? Wasn't that the one where RB Leipzig ripped the back 5 apart in the opening 3 minutes? And the one that they lost to a breakaway from their own corner in Istanbul? And then losing said Final? That's praiseworthy?
Also.. got Europa League Final.. after getting knocked out of the Champions League right? Embarrassingly so if I remember correctly? Wasn't that the one where RB Leipzig ripped the back 5 apart in the opening 3 minutes? And the one that they lost to a breakaway from their own corner in Istanbul? And then losing said Final? That's praiseworthy?
Wait is that a serious question? Can you name the ones he signed that wasn’t one?
I asked you first, don't deflect
Arsenal fans come across as more deluded then us (well the twitter ones), we finished below them rightly so last year we were awful it felt more like attitude then our players just not being very good.
When i watched them at the Emirates against us 3-1 they flattered to deceive, realistically i'd put Arsenal 7th/8th unless some major signings are brought in (Jesus isn't one)
I'd expect us on paper to walk all over them this year, but as in football who knows!
enjoyed that one, can't only be me looking at the arsenal squad thinking
When i watched them at the Emirates against us 3-1 they flattered to deceive, realistically i'd put Arsenal 7th/8th unless some major signings are brought in (Jesus isn't one)
I'd expect us on paper to walk all over them this year, but as in football who knows!
enjoyed that one, can't only be me looking at the arsenal squad thinking
Arsenal fans come across as more deluded then us (well the twitter ones), we finished below them rightly so last year we were awful it felt more like attitude then our players just not being very good.
When i watched them at the Emirates against us 3-1 they flattered to deceive, realistically i'd put Arsenal 7th/8th unless some major signings are brought in (Jesus isn't one)
I'd expect us on paper to walk all over them this year, but as in football who knows!
enjoyed that one, can't only be me looking at the arsenal squad thinking
The hilarious thing is those same players will be thrown under the bus to protect Arteta once results go south.
Also how fitting that user has Kaa as his profile picture given Arteta has a similar ability in convincing people to trust him despite all the evidence on the contrary.
Re Raphinha Don't tell me Arsenal fans counted their chickens before they hatched? They've never done that before
All Arsenal fans are Ty, there's just various degrees how far their delusion goes
Show me a level headed reasonable sane Arsenal fan and I bet they're actually a closet Spurs fan just in disguise
Saw something today saying if Arsenal get their targets this summer Arteta will have spent 320 million in the last 2 years
This can't be true surely?
Willian + Ramsey on a free, the PL won't see it coming
Willian was an awful signing but I have to give him huge credit for agreeing to terminate the massive contract we had given him rather than sit around doing nothing and being paid. Very rare to see that in football these days.
The sort of stuff Arteta gets credit for
If I'm not wrong, he is giving credit for Willian, not Arteta.
The sort of stuff Arteta gets credit for
Why on earth would Arteta get credit for that?
To be fair, because of nutters like ballague following him around and describing him like a modern day Jesus, it's easy to assume that rubs off on the fans a bit
One thing about this Arsenal revolution is that they are spending a lot of money, like, a massive amount of money, but they aren’t bringing in anyone guaranteed to be absolutely top quality.
Obviously the young players could grow into that (Saka almost definitely will), and Odegaard is a great signing, but, for me, the jury is still out on Ramsdale, White, Vieira, Lokonga, even Jesus (who I still think is an upgrade) etc…
Very little proven quality for the amount of money they are spending. It’s a massive risk.
Obviously the young players could grow into that (Saka almost definitely will), and Odegaard is a great signing, but, for me, the jury is still out on Ramsdale, White, Vieira, Lokonga, even Jesus (who I still think is an upgrade) etc…
Very little proven quality for the amount of money they are spending. It’s a massive risk.
Everything is a risk. You spent big money on very proven quality and they made you worse. If these don't work out they can be shipped out because they're young and not on comical wages.
White and Ramsdale had a good start to the season before our defence started to suffer without Partey and Tierney. Vieira is a gamble at 35M: young, looks a bit fragile, and not supposed to be starting. Lokonga was so cheap, whatever he becomes will be fine. And Jesus should be fine for 45M, every other striker were quoted between 60 and 100M. At least we know what we're buying here.
To be fair, because of nutters like ballague following him around and describing him like a modern day Jesus, it's easy to assume that rubs off on the fans a bit
I don’t know why any Arsenal fan would trust Ballbag over what they can see with their own eyes. Never mind the results which would ordinarily get an Arsenal manager sacked the quality of football has been mediocre at best and utterly awful at its worst. Arteta has it all to prove.
There are no guarantees on transfers ... just look at Eden Hazard, Coutinho, etc. Even if Arteta was fired, the new manager would be left with a very 'moldable' squad. Its no different to what United are doing now - Timber/Malacia/Antony are no guarantees.
I will put it another way. If you look at their first eleven, including the players they are linked to, is it any better than a Leicester or West Ham, really? Probably slightly, which is great.
But spending the money they are to get there is the problem. If they really do break the 250 million barrier, surely you have to qualify for top 4? Is their team a top 4 team? I don’t think it is.
United have quality players, the problem was they had a poor coach. A lot of these players, like Varane, Bruno, Sancho, and even Fred will prove themselves in a proper system with organized direction.
I just don’t think Arsenal have the winners or proven quality in their squad. 6th is fine, but if you spend almost £300 million to have the 6th-7th best squad in the league, something is wrong.
This is a fair point. Though, I would say looking at the first eleven can be deceiving. United 20/21 transfer window is once again an interesting case study:
Ronaldo
Varane
Sancho
The team that finished second place the season prior look to have levelled up significantly. The talent of all three of those players is not in doubt, but they actually took the team backwards.
On the other hand:
Henderson
Fabinho
Wijnaldum
Were the linchpins of a midfield that literally one it all. It is not difficult to think of superior midfield trios, but they perfectly suited Klopp’s tactics.
I quite like the transfer business they are doing under him TBF.
I think the problem is people are looking at Arsenal spending £300M in isolation, but if the teams above you are spending £300M, or just under it, and are strengthing from a higher base level, then its still difficult to catch up and overhaul.
Look at Chelsea, finished 3rd. They are on course for another £200M+ spend this summer, their 2nd in 3 years. Richarlison & Sterling will be £100M+, Ake will be £40M+, another defender say De Ligt could be £60m or more, and they probably still need strengthening at full back and even a midfielder.
Spurs spent similar to Arsenal if you count the 2 loan players that will be purchased, and have drew down an extra £150M for this summers spend and have been very active already.
The top 6 is very competitive, and now you can add Newcastle in the mix as well. They could spend £200M every season and still find a bit of a glass ceiling unless they find the consistency needed to overhaul Tuchel's & Conte's teams, never mind compete with Peps & Klopps teams.
The PL is the most competitive league in the world. Realistically you have Liverpool & City who have hit the jackpot with the managers they hired and are 2 out of the top-4. The remaining 2 spots are fought between Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal, United and usually 1 dark horse (West Ham, Everton (old), Leicester). That's 5 teams for 2 spots. Just the level of competition means that missing out on a top-4 requires more context than net spend. With a little bit of luck Arsenal would have replaced Spurs last season.
I disagree ... United do have quality but its no better than who they're up against for the remaining 2 spots. Each of the 4 above mentioned teams are within the range of each other. Each of them are capable of coming 3rd to 6th.
Chelsea seems like a bad example to me since they're not strengthening from a higher base level. They're needing to replace players who are leaving or who've flopped badly. The club hasn't been doing a good job.
Being backed in the transfer market, feel its a make or break season for him. Needs to deliver top 4 for them.
Quite a few people praising the work Arteta is doing but they still to address major issues with their squad. They need a CM as Partey and Xhaka have a poor injury record and behind them they only have Lokonga. Their number one priority should be Tielemans but seem to be stalling for some reason.
The fact they were after Rafinha does lead me to be believe that they will be switching to a 4-3-3 this season.
------------------------Jesus-------------------------
Martinelli----------------------------------Rafinha
-------------Saka------------------Odegaard-------
-------------------------Partey----------------------------
The fact they were after Rafinha does lead me to be believe that they will be switching to a 4-3-3 this season.
------------------------Jesus-------------------------
Martinelli----------------------------------Rafinha
-------------Saka------------------Odegaard-------
-------------------------Partey----------------------------
I don't think Arsenal has the quality of players United, Chelsea and Spurs do. I would place Chelsea slightly above United and Spurs on squad quality mainly because of the defenders they lost this summer (if not they would be far ahead). United & Spurs are more an equal footing for me, Superb attacking players at both teams when in form, average midfield, shitty defence (Although United's I think severely underperformed). Arsenal for me do not have the quality of players in attack all of this teams do, have just as average a midfield and no better defence.
Arsenal have a team with alot of potential, they're just probably not ready yet and need another couple of seasons. Saying that though for me Odegaard is the best number 10 in the league and he was experimented with last season as a 8 and played well. So they have quality in areas but are just waiting on the likes of Saka and Martinelli to mature and reach their peak.
Chelsea have alot of issues with their squad. They've just lost their best player in Rudiger, have an aging Kante who needs to be replaced and Thiago Silva is on his last legs. It's a big window for them as they need atleast one of De Ligt and Kounde if not both. For me Kovacic is their only world class CM, Jorginho is too hot and cold, they certainly need someone in there which is why they were in for Tchouameni. Up top they have no recognised striker and no world class wingers, Havertz is their 1 star player but he is yet to establish himself as a true 9 or 10.
I agree that Spurs are poor at the back but look to be getting Lenglet on loan, as LCB in a 3 he is a great buy. He and Romero at RCB could address alot of their issues back there. With Bissouma coming in, him and Bentancur in CM could be a quality midfield partnership, With a world class manager to go with it all they're probably this season's dark horses.
Their base level was higher because they are a top 3 club and recent European & World Champion. Those facts alone tell you their team and squad were better than Arsenal's.
Now, yeah they are replacing players, but so are we. I'm not judging how theyve been in the market, when we've not been great either. The point was about spending in relation to our rivals here. Everyone focuses on what Arsenal have spent & seem to discount other clubs, because the headline was Arsenal spent most in Europe...yeah for 1 window by about £10M or £15M. That also doesn't take into account wage bills & the like which affect the profile of player you can buy, and is a very simplistic view not taking account of how clubs actually ammorotize transfer fees and wages when someone like Ronaldo is costing £2M per month.
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I think the fact that you judge their base level to not be high, despite them being very recent European champions shows the strength of the league.
We have City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal, United and now Newcastle all vying for for just four spots. In addition, West Ham and Leicester are capable of gate crashing, though perhaps not consistently.
Everyone is spending money. Interestingly, the league seems to have wises up, as no one seems to be massively overpaying in this transfer window. Teams seems to be taking more of a measured approach where they target particular profiles of players for specific roles to raise the quality of their squad.
There have been no Ronaldo / Lukaku / Grealish type signing thus far. No teams have splashed huge money on a player simply because they are good and available.
Didn't realize they had signed this kid Marquinos. Supposed to be good?
Don't know much about him to be honest, just that Wolves thought they had agreed a deal for him on a pre contract and aren't very happy.
Thought even his YouTube were a bit underwhelming, think we are going to assess pre season but likely to go out on loan.