It's only 3 non Arteta years though isn't it? Hasn't he been in charge for 3 of those 6 years?
Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch
- Thread starter Samid
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Aye wee are total shite, but wee had half our fans not even happy with 2nd place finishes, that the differences.
Good win today. Hope nketiah will stay next season.
2 and a half yeah, 2 Wenger & 1 Emery years I think.
We had fans wanting Wenger out after finishing 2nd in 2015/2016. Not done us any good either eh?
I’d actually apportion the responsibility equally. 2 years Wenger / 2 years Emery / 2 years Arteta.
Arteta took over in December with us sitting 11th. So us finishing 8th is more to do with Emery than Arteta.
Last season is all on him, though. Willian made 37 appearances for us. 37!!! I think if we had sacked him at the end of last season he couldn’t have had too many complaints. But our board think he has potential so backed him enormously. It seems to have paid off this season, but we need a top striker and there are very few around. This Summer is huge for us.
You've got a proper good chance vs Barca these days
Good win today but I am still not fan of his playing style. Playing against a 10 man leeds for over 70 minutes and leading by 2 goals and yet there were moments arsenal were being dominated by them. I can see them sitting back on most games next season.
No. We said that before Moyes
Wait... it was SAF
Wait... it was SAF
Arsenal were 10th and 2 points off 8th when Arteta took over mid season, with a team that had finished 5th the year before. Didn't you use some crap logic in your previous posts interacting with me to tell me that Conte didn't really have an excuse for being in a very similar situation this season?
Being dominated? Must have been watching a different game to me mate.
You had 10 men behind the ball for the last 15 minutes against 10 man Leeds.
They had 3 shots all game, not on target, total shots. 1 the goal from a corner, 1 another set piece in injury time. Ramsdale made 1 save. We had 19 shots.
Must have a different definition of domination from what I have.
To be honest I think there's a bitterness among a section of our fans towards Arteta and Arsenal that's just a bit strange. People unwilling to be flexible and move beyond their initial thinking that he's a crap manager or maybe just because they're going to get top 4. Which no, isn't a trophy but isn't a forgone conclusion to reach.
What he's done is arguably what we need to do. I am hoping ETH can do things a little more convincingly as he will have the funds and the stature of the club behind him. But in terms of getting players that actually want to fight, revamping the side, trusting young players, booting out the odd non performer that is disruptive - it's what you need to do when wholesale change is needed. Also he clearly is happy to work within an overall club strategy without griping and moaning. We need an actual strategy and a manager that gets behind it.
What he's done is arguably what we need to do. I am hoping ETH can do things a little more convincingly as he will have the funds and the stature of the club behind him. But in terms of getting players that actually want to fight, revamping the side, trusting young players, booting out the odd non performer that is disruptive - it's what you need to do when wholesale change is needed. Also he clearly is happy to work within an overall club strategy without griping and moaning. We need an actual strategy and a manager that gets behind it.
Hey Conor, nice to see you’re still so interested in Arsenal.
Arsenal were 11th and 2 points behind United in 8th when Arteta took charge of his first game.
The team had finished 5th the season before. Well remembered.
I’m not entirely sure what “crap logic” you’re referring to. To summarise my argument:
Conte started 10 games into the season 2 points behind Arsenal. 25 games later he is 4 points behind Arsenal. Despite there being 75 points up for grabs, Spurs are further from Arsenal than when he took over. Therefore he is not some sort of magical solution.
Arteta started 18 games into the 19/20 season in 11th. He finished in 8th. This indicates that the relative failure of an 8th place finish in his first season has more to do with Emery than him.
You seem to have confused my point entirely. I’m not saying Conte “doesn’t have an excuse” for how he’s performed. I’m saying no one has an excuse. That how teams perform in a league is primarily down to them. Arteta improved Arsenal slightly in his first season (and won a trophy). He then underperformed last season and could have been sacked. And now this season he’s done a pretty good job.
I’m seriously perplexed why anyone would have such a big problem with the argument that a team’s final league position is first and foremost a reflection of how that team has played throughout the season. I honestly didn’t think I was saying anything controversial.
While I completely disagree with your argument, I certainly admire your commitment to the cause. Hats off to you, Sir.
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That got a Chuckle out of me, thank you.
I see Xhaka goal, won goal of the month on Match of the day 2.
Again, opposition gifted them goals and red cards. They are in a false dawn thinking they have made sustainable progress.
I think you could get into the Olympics with your talents in mental gymnastics! Also, from the official PL site, they were 10th after GW17, and Arteta took over before GW18, where they moved to 11th.
My favourite bit of his gymnastics is how it’s Emery’s fault that they finished 8th in Arteta’s first season, despite Arteta being in charge of over 50% of the games.
Vehemently arguing against a point, and then using that exact point he argued against to defend Arteta, all within a few pages
This really doesn’t matter, but Arteta’s first match in charge was against Bournemouth in GW19. You are correct in pointing out that Arsenal fell to 11th in GW18. Thanks for taking the time to look that up and confirm the accuracy of my statements.
Feel free to point out the “mental gymnastics” in what I’m saying. In fact, I’d settle for finding out what I’ve said that is even mildly controversial. I’m genuinely fascinated by your investment in this.
I’m starting to doubt the levels of comprehension in this thread.
Arteta takes over a team in 11th after 18 games. 20 games later they’ve gone up 3 positions and won a trophy.
Conte takes over a team 2 points behind Arsenal after 10 games. 25 games later they are 4 points behind Arsenal.
Arteta’s PPG in 19/20 would have landed us 5th over the full season. So yeah, crazily enough, I attribute the relative failure of our 8th place finish that season to Emery.
I also think 28 games is long enough for Conte to catch up 2 points this season. And he still may do it, in which case he should take the plaudits because he will have been responsible for achieving Spurs target this season.
None of those points are ground-breaking. I’m curious what part of that you actually disagree with.
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I mean you're wrong here (as is the PL site then). 'On 26 December 2019, Arteta took charge for the first time as an Arsenal manager for their Premier League match against Bournemouth which ended in a 1–1 draw, thanks to a second half equaliser from Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang.'
We were 11th on December 25th. So, he took over when we were 11th. He was in the stand for the game before that, but he wasn't in charge/managing.
Emerys PPG for that part of the season was 1.27. (18 games). (11th)
Artetas PPG for the rest of the season was 1.65 (20 games). (6th in this period).
Arteta also won the FA Cup. So, for me, his first season was a success relative to how he picked up the team.
P.S For the person who said Arteta was in charge for over 50% of the season, yes, it was about 52%, but I imagine you thought it was like 65% and you were trying to make a point which isn't true.
The whole point is that you cannot claim that Conte coming in mid season is not a big hindrance to Spurs' overall performance this season, and then 2 pages later absolve Arteta of an average finish in his first season, because he came in mid season. It makes no sense.
Arteta was appointed on December 20th 2019, according to wikipedia, a day before GW18. I'm sure he had absolutely nothing to do with the team selection or anything of the sort that weekend...
You're scraping the barrel here, which is a bit desperate. It's very clear his first game in charge was against Bournemouth. Just like how people will say Carrick was in charge when you beat us earlier this season, despite Ralf being around then.
I don't even know why you are arguing this, it's quite sad.
Guys, I don't think he's going to be their Ole.
Let’s be clear here. Ole managed a 3rd and a 2nd placed finish in his two full seasons at the club and a Europa final. His reign was bookended by crap form however.
Arsenal will have managed an 8th and a 4th/5th finish in his two full seasons. They would kill for a 3rd and a 2nd placed finish.
To be honest, what does being an Ole actually mean? Why is he singled out as the manager that people get compared to now, almost like its some sort of insult? Ole done a very decent job for a couple of years, there's been a lot bigger names in terms of managerial appointments done a worse job the past few years, even at Utd post Fergie.
I don't get it.
What ?! Ole's the worst football manager ever!!
Seriously, my comment was more in jest. I think Ole did a decent job with us too.
Sorry, I didn't mean to pick you out, but it's a phrase I've seen a lot, especially on here & especially by Utd fans which makes it seem even more weird.
I don't know if it's the ex player thing they are referring to, or the fact there's not a body of work at big clubs that they can reference, but I just find it strange.
Sure. And if that is what I said, you would have a point. But I didn’t say that. You’ve just made up a point to have an argument with for reasons I’m unsure of.
You argued that had Conte been Manager of Spurs for the entirety of this season then Arsenal would not be sitting in fourth. I responded that I think we most likely would based on the gap between the teams being the same (2 points) 24 games after his appointment.
You’ve been debating this so long that the gap has actually increased to 4 points.
I then argued that Arsenal finishing 8th in 19/20 is mostly due to the fact that Arteta took over a team in the bottom half of the table after 18 games rather than his performance over the remaining 20 games. As his PPG would have landed us in 5th over the course of the season, that is a pretty reasonable conclusion.
I’m genuinely curious, which parts of that do you disagree with?
I think the comparison comes less from a direct equivalence between tangible accomplishments and more about the narrative that surrounded the two situations. Things like coming into a dire situation and instilling a "cultural reset", a holistic approach to the project. Many of the things Arteta is being lauded for are also some of the things Ole was being praised for at the peak of his time there, having the players playing with determination and tenacity, with a young average age and a promising future. With the way the two managers were treated in a different manner by the media and supporters in general, there's been a long history in this thread of comparing the two. FrankDebin's comment was joking of course, but with Ole's time ending not the way it was hoped, the comment's of "he's their Ole" is basically a prediction that the optimism is misplaced, the progress is an illusion and things will end badly.
It's a lazy comparison without much substance, but we're football supporters. It's what we do.
Yep, I agree. He may well be “our Ole” in terms of not being able to take us to the next level. But the level of Managers is crazy next season:
1. Pep
2. Klopp
3. Tuchel
4. Arteta
5. Conte
6. ten Hag
We’re facing five clubs with vastly more experienced Managers working with stronger squads. Our recruitment, retention, coaching and in-game management will all have to be elite. Seeing as we can’t recruit a Pep, we’ll have to develop our own.
The odds are stacked against us, but I’m pleased that we’re at least trying. The alternative would be to hire an inferior version of the great Managers in this league. It’s a little bit like blooding youngsters into a team. You know you’ll pay with mistakes made and points dropped. But at least there is the chance, however small, that you may be into something.
Absolutely, I definitely think Arsenal supporters have good reason to be happy with the way things are going and how it's been done. The league is filled with great managers, and Pep and Klopp are basically unassailable to most of the sides within it. Arsenal have obviously settled on a way in which they think is the best approach to move forward and they've done so in a holistic manner. The summer window will be important but I think the last one was a good success and they'll be hoping to replicate it.
I've heard mixed things about how Chelsea plan to conduct their business but if the talk about a big window is true then it's going to be an interesting summer, with Manchester United planning to spend big under a new talented manager, if Conte stays at Spurs I imagine it'll be due to being promised funds to spend.
It's probably because of the pre-season predictions. It can't be easy to give credit to Arteta when people were predicting we'd finish mid table and United would be challenging for the title.
It's definitely odd though. There's valid criticisms of Arteta which I don't see mentioned all that often but you see way more clichés and lazy comparisons to Ole.
Three more games to play and we will see where we finish this season. It has been a good season regardless anyway.
Europa after this will feel like a genuine opportunity missed.
Artety's first real test when he needs to juggle 2 games a week. It'll be interesting to see how he adjusts to European tactics, of course I expect he'll be able to beat the minnows but can he deal with the likes of Ajax, Villareal etc? Then there's the big boys as well.