Aubameyang has always been a bit of an ill-disciplined idiot. I don't think it's fair to hold his current form against Arsenal, since I doubt he would have been able to find the same motivation there, regardless of how well Arteta handled the situation.
Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch
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Aubameyang has always been a bit of an ill-disciplined idiot. I don't think it's fair to hold his current form against Arsenal, since I doubt he would have been able to find the same motivation there, regardless of how well Arteta handled the situation.
Maybe he had no long term future at Arsenal. If so, he could have been managed out at the end of the season. Tolerate the Ill-discipline for now, keep him in the squad to give you options and sell him in the summer (and get a replacement on board for next season) Even if he didn’t hit the same form we’re seeing now he would still have scored goals. And a lack of goals has been Arsenal’s biggest problem all season.
Instead Arteta chose to pick a fight with him and escalate it to the point of no return before the season was half way through. Meaning Arsenal finish the season without their most natural goal-scorer, with no replacement and no transfer fee. Scapegoating him has fuelled the “cultural reboot” crap we fell for with Ole but has also weakened their squad in a season when they’ll never get a better shot at CL football, with predictable results.
I don't know what the end goal is with Arteta. Me, I want my team to improve season on season, to look at least as if they are building towards something. What that something is I don't know, because let's be honest, when you are competing with City's money & Pep, with a Klopp inspired Liverpool, & with Chelsea with Tuchel & a billion pound squad, its going to be difficult to overtake them.
You are right, perhaps unexpectedly this would be our best chance of top 4, because of the situations at Utd & Spurs. But let's be honest, in terms of quality & depth, this isn't a top 4 squad.
The attack certainly shouldn't be a top 4 attack, & that's the area of the first XI that needs most improvement. But due to shedding of a lot of players that weren't seen as the future, we also lack depth. I realise that, I can accept that, as long as we make improvements in transfer windows going forward.
However, i suspect ultimately, given the quality of the teams (& coaches) we are competing with, Arteta might not get us to where we want to be. However as we have seen with football, lots can change. Conte can quickly be out of Spurs as quick as he was installed, managers don't seem to last long at Chelsea, Pep & Klopp might be coming towards the end of their cycle. Everything might go up in the air again, & that's the great thing about football.
Yeah his whole demeanor is ridiculous. He acts and talks like he knows it all. Like he can do no wrong, and anything that goes wrong is always someone else’s fault. Even Pep who is a passive aggressive fecker at times is nowhere near this arrogant.
And who's to say we would have went in the run we did to put is into position for top 4 if Aubameyang stayed? Because we certainly weren't really looking like it when he was part of the team first half of the season.
There’s a narrative built around how taking Aubameyang out of the team is why Arsenal had a good run but that could be confusing correlation and causation. From the outside looking in the biggest improvement has been due to Partey and Odegard finding their feet and Xhaka having one of his intermittent runs of good form. You can be certain Aubameyang would be a lot more prolific in front of that midfield than he was in the first half of the season.
But an unhappy Aubameyang is not something that you can just tolerate away, it's disruptive to the entire team. And while I'm no expert on Arsenal, a goal tally of four and a stark under performance of xG suggest to me that Auba wasn't showing the kind of performances that would have merited keeping him around either.
You'd probably be writing the same about Pogba, if United had cashed in on him in the Winter. But sometimes players are just done at a club.
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That’s assuming Aubamayang is getting into positions, hasn’t downed tools etc…
It’s obviously impossible for us to know how much of a negative effect he was having in the dressing room. For all we know the reasons Odegaard/Partey may have kicked on could be related to him. He may have set a standard whereby he wasn’t giving it his all so they slacked somewhat and without that influence they kicked on.
Obviously it’s conjecture, but saying it’s directly related or isn’t with any kind of certainty is exactly the same, as nothing is happening in a vacuum.
I see Pogue’s point. There was no way the likes of Smith Rowe and Martinelli would either continue their purple patches in front of goal or massively add G/As to their game. Since the turn of the year, both have a combined 2 goals in 11 PL matches. Which is to be expected, they’re far too green to rely upon in that manner.
Add in Lacathreat up-top, and Odegaard who is actually doing okay numbers-wise this season, but is almost like a reverse Fernandes in the no.10 spot (decent overall performances but without many goals), and you can see why Arsenal have scored the fewest goals in the top 6 (7?).
Add in Lacathreat up-top, and Odegaard who is actually doing okay numbers-wise this season, but is almost like a reverse Fernandes in the no.10 spot (decent overall performances but without many goals), and you can see why Arsenal have scored the fewest goals in the top 6 (7?).
Aubameyang isnt the only case of really questionable man-management by Arteta. Lets not forget his similar treatment of Ozil. You then have players like Saliba who was bought for £27m only to be completely frozen out, whilst instead they complain about a lack of CBs and then go spunk £50m on Ben White, without having even given Saliba a chance.
There have been two games this season where for me, they have shown really questionable sportsmanship. One was the one against United, where I am convinced that Smith-Rowe saw that De Gea was down when he called for the ball and scored (a shot that DDG would have easily saved). Obviously a lot of blame there should be on DDG for being a pussy, but its still poor sportsmanship from the gooners.
Second, and more blatant one - also Smith-Rowe - was against Watford in November where Watford put the ball out of play due to injury. Arsenal shouldve returned it, instead they carried on and scored.
They are just an eminently dislikeable bunch, and Arteta personifies that.
There have been two games this season where for me, they have shown really questionable sportsmanship. One was the one against United, where I am convinced that Smith-Rowe saw that De Gea was down when he called for the ball and scored (a shot that DDG would have easily saved). Obviously a lot of blame there should be on DDG for being a pussy, but its still poor sportsmanship from the gooners.
Second, and more blatant one - also Smith-Rowe - was against Watford in November where Watford put the ball out of play due to injury. Arsenal shouldve returned it, instead they carried on and scored.
They are just an eminently dislikeable bunch, and Arteta personifies that.
Completely agree this.
Against wolves, white kicked someone deliberately and their fans celebrated that. Most of the times they won’t stop play for opposition injuries, Time wasting and players fall down for small touches and they does everything that burnley or atletico does. And their fans are horrible because they will freeze frame fouls and say they’ve been robbed. I mean this season every team was robbed so many times, united exited fa cup after a blatant hand ball denied and fouls by atletico players wasn’t given. Having said that I believe that Martinelli goal should stand, it was a tough call.
In terms of play, Arsenal has only one pattern to build their attack and that is through saka. If the opposition team shuts the door for saka runs, its over. Arsenal will play exactly like us that is passing between fullbacks and centre backs for sometime and hope someone from midfield come and pick it.
Arteta’s man management is okay not poor. But he should have strengthened the attack before releasing a striker. Overall, I want Arsenal to finish 4th or 5th this season so they will continue with Arteta for few more seasons. I don’t want to see Arsenal board making a good manager appointment and challenge top 4 because its already stacked for competition in this league.
Our attack is the weakest point in the team. Its the area of the team that Arteta has least invested in so far. Bar the signing of Odegaard, the rest are all legacy signings or youth players, so I think it's fair to say they'll target that area in the summer. The attack performed poor with Aubameyang in the squad, so im not sure how much difference he would have made with his previous form.
Ozil was done, anyone could see that, & the wages became a big burden. He's now having similar problems at Fenerbache.
Saliba was signed by the previous regime, was unfit when he came (he fully admitted that), & the management thought the best thing for his development was to go out and be first choice somewhere where he can play ever week in a slightly lesser environment. Considering how he has came on this season, it's hard to argue that was best for his development. As long as they integrate him into the first team squad this season I have no problems with that. Where I will have a problem is if they sell him without giving him a chance next season considering his promise.
But ultimately you have to compete for the top honors or finish in top 4 consistently, otherwise whats the point of backing him if the end goal is just to fight for 5th or 6th. Also, it's not like Arteta has not been backed by the board. Arsenal has spent the most money this season over £150m, and apart from that he has full backing to kick out players he doesn't want. That's not the case at Manchester United or at Chelsea or at Spurs.
I still the feel the backing and patience you have given/shown to him, if you had given that to Emery you would be in a better position. Or if you actually go and hire say someone like ETH or Poch or Enrique you would definitely be in a better position long term as well as short term.
Of course that would be the goal. Strategically, for me, I'd want to position ourselves in the next couple of years as the 'best of the rest' outside of City & Liverpool, so if there is any drop off after management changes at those clubs you'd be best placed to take advantage. Hence why I agree with the strategy of lowering the general age of the squad to allow the core to peak in 2 or 3 years.
However, I also know that that's no guarantee to work, for many reasons, players don't improve like you envisage, or get plucked by bigger richer clubs, or other clubs just improve more than we do.
Could another manager have done better? Possibly....maybe even probably. But I think if you choose to go with a novice manager, you appreciate that it's a long term project, & if he's hitting the targets set for him (which for this year is to get back into European football), you might as well continue to back him until that course is run. Targets & expectations change & evolve though, so what might be ok for him this season might not be after another round of investment next, & all the while the manager merry go round keeps spinning anyway.
I can see us going full David Brent now.
People laughing at us if we cant get 4th place? Jokes on them. We never wanted it anyway.
Next.
People laughing at us if we cant get 4th place? Jokes on them. We never wanted it anyway.
Next.
It just reflects the true level of the team for the whole season. The table won't lie. If Spurs finish 4th, it means they are a better team than Arsenal. It is what it is. There are still games left to play.
What surprises me of the former Guardiola's assistant known over here as Lego Pep is that I have never really watched an Arsenal game (Not that I have watched many) in which the style of play resembles Pep's style.
Please correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think Arsenal try to play like City/Barca or do they?
Please correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think Arsenal try to play like City/Barca or do they?
They did under Wenger but not Arteta.
Watched their recent few games and observed they usually play a 4231 and attack the wide areas and press as much as possible. So saka and martinelli are key and odegaard runs into dangerous spaces to receive those balls.
They are good against bottom half teams but they will lose shape when conceding first and vulnerable on counters.
But definitely not pep’s style!
Yeah I remember back in the good Barca days that we played them several times and they were always trying to beat us at our game but couldn't. Most likely because we had Messi and they didn't.
However, I expected Arteta to try to imitate Pep but the few games i've seen were disappointing. They looked like the usual counterattacking team. Not even a Lego Pep IMO.
Their former manager has just beaten Bayern to reach a CL semi.
Their former manager has just beaten Bayern to reach a CL semi.
Is anyone surprised, he has an excellent record in the European competitions, he even got Arsenal to a European final in his only season there. Its domestically he isn't great.
True. I'm still think it was a knee jerk reaction to get rid of him although at the time his league form wasn't that great.
We got rid because he lost the dressing room to the point where he became a joke figure in the media which filtered into the dressing room.
However, he was dealt a bad hand. He didn't get his own signings, he wanted Zaha & he got Pepe, wanted Partey & got Torriera. Plus, it took us a while to realise a proper clear out was needed which Arteta has been allowed to do, Emery never got that luxury..
He's going to throw it away isn't he?
Spend three years to build a side that can... Challenge for top four. And then a proper manager takes over a spurs side in total disarray and still pips them to it within six months of taking over.
Spend three years to build a side that can... Challenge for top four. And then a proper manager takes over a spurs side in total disarray and still pips them to it within six months of taking over.
If he doesn’t get them top 4 they should sack him in all honesty. A terrible season for united, spurs both sacking their managers, no stability at those clubs and yet he is about to bottle it.
If he takes almost 3 years to not even deliver top 4 then how long he’s gonna take them where they want to be ? But as it was with united fans, many of them are blinded by an ex player managing Arsenal atleast ours was a legend.
They should go all in for Enrique if he fancies it after the World Cup. If not then either Poch if possible or Potter. Atleast Arsenal would play entertaining football once again, Lego pep doesn’t even play that. Sheikh Eddie Howe of Georgie Arabia plays better football than him with inferior players.
Arsenal have no right finishing top 4 regardless of how bad a season others are having and regardless of how bad a season others are having if they do finish top 4 then they've massively overachieved
I think one of Emery's problems at Arsenal, and then also at PSG, was that he doesn't seem to be great at communicating in another language than Spanish.
Every year there's going to be 2 of the big 6 that don't finish in the top 4, maybe 3 if Newcastle emerge. Soon run out of managers if those that miss out are sacked every year.
If he doesn't get top 4 will he be sacked? Do Arsenal fans want that?
He has built a decent young squad that Arsenal haven't had for a whilst - do they want to let it grow or is it time to let someone manage this group?
Or is this squad built more from DOF/Edu than arteta?
He has built a decent young squad that Arsenal haven't had for a whilst - do they want to let it grow or is it time to let someone manage this group?
Or is this squad built more from DOF/Edu than arteta?
His target for the season was to get back in Europe & continue to strip out the squad. If he does that he won't be sacked.
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This is Arteta’s team. Bar a few players he has signed most of the first eleven. Ramsdale, Gabriel, Ben white, tomiyasu, Partey, odegaard. Also lokonga, Nuno and Cedric. Tierney and Martinelli were also new signings, signed only a few months back before Arteta and have been two of their best players. On top of that Saka and ESR have fallen in his lap and been a blessing for him. He has been given time he has been given money he has been given authority. He let go of whoever he wanted whoever he desired Aubameyamg, guendouzi, Saliba whether right or wrong I’m not arguing that but he’s been given that power to do so. He alienated AMN, now Pepe rarely starts under him. He does what he wants. That’s being backed. Good for him.
Now after all this if he doesn’t get top 4 especially because of the turmoil at united and spurs this season then it’s on him. I’m not talking about winning or challenging for the title, I’m talking about the 4th place. If we hadn’t gone bust then I might agree with you but the road was clear for him. Spurs and united having horrible seasons, sacking their managers, unstable and Arsenal having no European distraction, Arteta into his 3rd season with the stability, coaching the team and instilling his philosophy and being backed fully. There is no excuse.
Who should have taken advantage of this situation then getting the 4th spot ? Leicester ? No. West Ham ? No. Wolves ? No. It’s Arsenal. If you can’t get the 4th spot after 2 of the top 6 clubs fecking up their season themselves and you can’t take advantage of this extraordinary situation after being there for almost 3 yrs. then what hope you have in hell in normal circumstances? Conte would be at spurs next season and if united gets going under ETH then don’t you think it would be unfair on Arteta if he doesn’t get 4th again? Because well, if you didn’t think it was fair criticising Arteta a season back after being at arsenal for 3yrs when both united and spurs were in turmoil then how can you expect him after 4yrs to get 4th when both clubs have stabilised themselves. How can you make such a big jump in a season , No ? Especially if they have Europa league to contend with.
If you say their team is not good enough for top 4 then it’s on Arteta. If you say they have no right to be in the top 4 for whatever reasons then it on Arteta. You dissect it either way it’s on him. Whichever way you look at it.
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It's still possible they finish below us. If that happens it'll be genuinely hilarious.
Just because Arteta has signed a new XI doesn't mean that XI is good enough to finish top 4. When you're as far back as Arsenal have been you don't just buy an XI that's good enough for top 4 there's a process where you build year by year. With the XI Arteta has EL qualification should be their ceiling anything above that and they've over achieved
I just don't rate him as a manager. Average at best and I just think he is full of rubbish.
When he inevitably leaves Arsenal, he will probably be linked to clubs like Everton and I think he could very well get them relegated (If they stay up this year)........ Wonder what odds I could get to bet on Arteta getting Everton relegated as their manager?
When he inevitably leaves Arsenal, he will probably be linked to clubs like Everton and I think he could very well get them relegated (If they stay up this year)........ Wonder what odds I could get to bet on Arteta getting Everton relegated as their manager?
After 3 seasons I have no idea what his style of play is. Watching us try to score a goal is like what I would imagine peeing out a kidney stone feels like. Defence is solid enough though.
Building year by year sounds nice, but in reality if Arsenal aren't qualifying for the CL then their top players will simply demand to leave, and the club will be stuck in a perpetual 'rebuilding' stage, unable to progress further.
Maybe he's a very good assistant manager who through ego and opportunity got propelled to a main managerial role a bit too soon. He has to get at least EL and make this team offensively potent with whoever he buys this summer. How he, and the club, deal with Saliba's return will also play a part.
Arsenal have no top players
Another reason why top 4 this season is a major overachievement
They have some really good players in there. The trouble is that they are their younger players and they will eventually have ambitions of winning things. Sake and Martinelli are the two that really stand out.