Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch

Vaultech said:
I think they are undervalued by most fans. Pep's deep understanding and obsession with tactics allowed him to dominate leagues.
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This is kind of what I mean.

There are plenty of managers who seemingly have a "deep understanding" and "obsession with" tactics and they don't win anything. Guardiola's current assistant is a good example of that.

What allows Guardiola to dominate leagues is his ability to implement tactics and football concepts, not his knowledge of them.
 
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Iker Quesadillas said:
This is kind of what I mean.

There are plenty of managers who seemingly have a "deep understanding" and "obsession with" tactics and they don't win anything. Guardiola's current assistant is a good example of that.

What allows Guardiola to dominate leagues is his ability to implement tactics and football concepts, not his knowledge of them.
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It is an important quality. There are managers in non-league football who have studied the greats and have a clear idea of how they want to play, but the ability (and credibility) needed to implement these styles is a massive hurdle, and that's ignoring the context of the kind of players they possess and the league they are in.

I think it was Nagelsmann who when asked about his own approach stated that "thirty per cent of coaching is tactics, 70 per cent social competence".
 
It could be argued Arsenal have benefited from ourselves and Spurs having turbulent seasons with both clubs sacking their managers and bringing new coaches to start new eras, or in our case a caretaker until the actual coach is appointed.

But then Arsenal seem to have been savvy recently bringing in players under the radar and developing a promising young team free.

I guess next season will tell a wider picture for all three clubs.
 
padzilla said:
It could be argued Arsenal have benefited from ourselves and Spurs having turbulent seasons with both clubs sacking their managers and bringing new coaches to start new eras, or in our case a caretaker until the actual coach is appointed.

But then Arsenal seem to have been savvy recently bringing in players under the radar and developing a promising young team free.

I guess next season will tell a wider picture for all three clubs.
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I don't understand this logic at all really.

We aren't benefiting from anything. We're on course for 70 points, which is a very typical top 4 point total.

If 4th place got 60-65 points, then yes, but what you're saying is irrelevant to how we're doing.

For what it's worth, Spurs are currently in the exact same position they were in last year point wise, except last year they were 3 points off top 4.

United are 7 points worse off, but were 2nd this time last year.

Arsenal are 14 points better than last year..
 
Cascarino said:
It is an important quality. There are managers in non-league football who have studied the greats and have a clear idea of how they want to play, but the ability (and credibility) needed to implement these styles is a massive hurdle, and that's ignoring the context of the kind of players they possess and the league they are in.

I think it was Nagelsmann who when asked about his own approach stated that "thirty per cent of coaching is tactics, 70 per cent social competence".
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And Nagelsmann is also somebody who has worked within very strong organizations where there were other competent people tasked with buying and selling players and with maintaining winning organizational culture. If you are in a situation where that doesn't really exist, as was the case for Arteta when he arrived at Arsenal, then that becomes a big part of succeeding in the job too, making the portion allotted to tactics even smaller than 30%.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
This is kind of what I mean.

There are plenty of managers who seemingly have a "deep understanding" and "obsession with" tactics and they don't win anything. Guardiola's current assistant is a good example of that.

What allows Guardiola to dominate leagues is his ability to implement tactics and football concepts, not his knowledge of them.
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And my point is managers that don't show a deep appreciation of tactics usually don't end up being title winning managers either, especially in more modern era.

Mourinho upended the PL when he first arrived was because he paid a far greater emphasis on tactics than what the league used to. Some managed to adapt, while others (like Wenger) start finding themselves left behind overtime.
 
Nish115 said:
I don't understand this logic at all really.
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The logic is simple. Arsenal didn't progress or improve and Arteta is shit. Arsenal has more points this season than last because Man Utd and Spurs changed manager in mid season. Nothing to do with Arsenal consistently got 3 points against teams outside of top 6. Next season Man Utd and Spurs will be back to their normal selves and Arsenal will be back to 8th place. Arteta is still shit. It is quite easy to understand.
 
They matched us without threatening Alisson's goal much until that Odegaard chance (which came from a Thiago back pass gone wrong). They were very well organized until we scored the two goals though. I think they might end up doing it but it depends what United do between now and the end of the season as well. Arsenal look like a more settled side than United do.
 
Arteta probably loves the smell of his own farts.
 
Klopper76 said:
They matched us without threatening Alisson's goal much until that Odegaard chance (which came from a Thiago back pass gone wrong). They were very well organized until we scored the two goals though. I think they might end up doing it but it depends what United do between now and the end of the season as well. Arsenal look like a more settled side than United do.
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True. What Arsenal lacked tonight was what your team had...quality finishers. From a neutral I think the game was even up until you all scored, additionally, Arsenal technically played with zero strikers as every time they progressed in the wide areas, Lacazette was nowhere to be found.

PS. You need to ask Trent what he did to Martinelli. He's gonna have nightmares.
 
Il Prete Rosso said:
True. What Arsenal lacked tonight was what your team had...quality finishers. From a neutral I think the game was even up until you all scored, additionally, Arsenal technically played with zero strikers as every time they progressed in the wide areas, Lacazette was nowhere to be found.

PS. You need to ask Trent what he did to Martinelli. He's gonna have nightmares.
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Who is? Martinelli was all over Trent until Klopp made sure to double/triple team him.
 
Abhinav said:
Its hard to judge if Arteta is shaping Arsenal into anything special or is it just a build-up to nothing. After all, Ole also got us to a top 4 finish in 2019/20 when we were seriously lacking quality. Opinions change from match to match but given what we have seen from him earlier, its difficult to heap any disproportionate praise on him. Not to further downplay his achievements this season, the fact is that he is competing against 2 clubs who have both changed their managers mid season.
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You're clearly not watching them enough. You can clearly see a plan on positional play, pressing, defending and overall improvement in this Arsenal team. They're lacking key players like a top striker and maybe a more attacking version of Xhaka but what he's done with the team and their trajectory can be clearly seen.
 
Nish115 said:
Who is? Martinelli was all over Trent until Klopp made sure to double/triple team him.
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Yeah agreed, Martinelli had Trent on skates the whole game, he was unlucky and deserved at least a goal. He should've scored from his chance near the end though.
 
The fact they lost their first 3 games and are woeful against top sides yet they still get 4th says everything about the PL. 2 elite sides and 1 very good side the rest are average
 
432JuanMata said:
The fact they lost their first 3 games and are woeful against top sides yet they still get 4th says everything about the PL. 2 elite sides and 1 very good side the rest are average
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If you think our games against City and Liverpool tonight were woeful, you need to learn some new words.

The finishing was the difference in both games sadly, but we held our own for most of it.
 
Good game. Not surprised by the result. The team tried their best and I can't fault their effort.
 
Very happy with the progress, we need to improve on Cedric, Xhaka and Laca to improve this team. They had Firminho and Salah coming from the bench and we had zero options up front. Good to see that we didn't roll over which was the case since last 5-6 season's.
 
Nish115 said:
If you think our games against City and Liverpool tonight were woeful, you need to learn some new words.

The finishing was the difference in both games sadly, but we held our own for most of it.
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That is the caf on a grumpy day. Every loss is woeful, rivals are lucky and nothing special. Everything is shit basically and no one deserves credit.
 
A striker who can actually score goals might have made the difference for us last night. I understand that moving Auba on has probably helped improve dressing room unity and that is coming through in our recent performances but Laca cant score goals and is at best a poundland Firmino. If we don’t secure 4th this season I’m sure this will be a key factor.
 
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Nish115 said:
If you think our games against City and Liverpool tonight were woeful, you need to learn some new words.

The finishing was the difference in both games sadly, but we held our own for most of it.
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City for sure. Liverpool yesterday I think u were compact but wasn’t very good. Didn't really create many clear cut chances when Liverpool first half were quite poor (and still could have gone in 1-0 up)

Overall though you have improved, still the record vs the top sides in the league this season is indeed woeful.

Still think you are the best team outside the top 3 though
 
The first half was pretty impressive, a clear plan to attack wide and isolate Martinelli vs TAA and it worked well. Martinelli was terrorizing that flank, the nutmeg on Henderson was a nice bonus.
Problem might be that you don't get enough bodies in the box once the wide player manages to get through, this might be connected to the fact both Xhaka and Partey aren't prone to attacking the box? Of course that might also be due to the opponent you played and the need to contain them.
 
Mastadon said:
A striker who can actually score goals might have made the difference for us last season. I understand that moving Auba on has probably helped improve dressing room unity and that is coming through in our recent performances but Laca cant score goals and is at best a poundland Firmino. If we don’t secure 4th this season I’m sure this will be a key factor.
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You literally became good after you fecked off Auba. It improved everything

You do need upgrades on Xhaka and Laca though, sure
 
B20 said:
That is the caf on a grumpy day. Every loss is woeful, rivals are lucky and nothing special. Everything is shit basically and no one deserves credit.
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Pretty long day that. I wish my days were that long, the stuff I'd be able to get done!
i.e. hundreds of thousands of internet posts instead of just thousands
 
Samid said:


No Europe. 3rd round cup exit. Moaning about congested fixtures.
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Their fixture list has plenty of banana skins to for such a small squad.
I dont think they’ll get top 4 because they’ll Arsenal it up somewhere.
 
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Hansi Fick said:
The first half was pretty impressive, a clear plan to attack wide and isolate Martinelli vs TAA and it worked well. Martinelli was terrorizing that flank, the nutmeg on Henderson was a nice bonus.
Problem might be that you don't get enough bodies in the box once the wide player manages to get through, this might be connected to the fact both Xhaka and Partey aren't prone to attacking the box? Of course that might also be due to the opponent you played and the need to contain them.
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Lacazette and Xhaka are pretty slow and not very mobile. It's frustrating watching them slowly amble towards the box every time we attack.

It definitely affects the way we press too
 
Nish115 said:
I don't understand this logic at all really.

We aren't benefiting from anything. We're on course for 70 points, which is a very typical top 4 point total.

If 4th place got 60-65 points, then yes, but what you're saying is irrelevant to how we're doing.

For what it's worth, Spurs are currently in the exact same position they were in last year point wise, except last year they were 3 points off top 4.

United are 7 points worse off, but were 2nd this time last year.

Arsenal are 14 points better than last year..
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Doesn't this suggest that United's drop in results, at least, and Arsenal's improvements from last year both have contributed to the league standings now?

Also Arsenal's three league games less than United, two after last night, meant the squad has been slightly fresher in terms of turnarounds between games too.
 
Hansi Fick said:
Pretty long day that. I wish my days were that long, the stuff I'd be able to get done!
i.e. hundreds of thousands of internet posts instead of just thousands
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On a good day, rivals are better because it elevates beating them and mctominay is better than Henderson.

It's been a long time since there's been a good day here really.
 
I was very much hoping that he would fail at Arsenal. But have to admit that he has done quite a reasonable job. Some very astute signings and getting rid of Aubamiang has definitely improved team spirit.
 
Hansi Fick said:
Pretty long day that. I wish my days were that long, the stuff I'd be able to get done!
i.e. hundreds of thousands of internet posts instead of just thousands
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All that time to make precious posts about Rangnick :drool:
 
Pretty interesting that we have so many rival fans on the forum here who feel comfortable enough to make snide remarks in the name of banter
 
Hansi Fick said:
The first half was pretty impressive, a clear plan to attack wide and isolate Martinelli vs TAA and it worked well. Martinelli was terrorizing that flank, the nutmeg on Henderson was a nice bonus.
Problem might be that you don't get enough bodies in the box once the wide player manages to get through, this might be connected to the fact both Xhaka and Partey aren't prone to attacking the box? Of course that might also be due to the opponent you played and the need to contain them.
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Agree with that. Martinelli is very promising but he is currently a head down and run type of player just a bit too often. However, what im not sure of is how much of that is down to the player or how much of that is down to the lack of support?

As others have said, the next evolution in improving the first XI is a more rounded striker and a midfielder to replace Xhaka. If Arteta does want to make the midfield more Pep like that player should be a bit more dynamic and offer more of a threat going forward.

Then, as plenty have mentioned, they need a few signings for depth if we make European football.
 
Buster15 said:
I was very much hoping that he would fail at Arsenal. But have to admit that he has done quite a reasonable job. Some very astute signings and getting rid of Aubamiang has definitely improved team spirit.
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Just like we would improve if we sold our cry babies.

Getting rid of toxic players solves half the problem is the easiest to do.
 
VidaRed said:
Just like we would improve if we sold our cry babies.

Getting rid of toxic players solves half the problem is the easiest to do.
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Definitely.
Care to mention who you would like to get rid of.
 
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