Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch

[Ludens the Red]

Eh?? Ask that question before the start of the season and nobody would have agreed. Nobody rated Ramsdale, White, Tavares etc etc as signings..

Find this take pretty silly really. United and Spurs both have more experienced managers and better squads..

Arteta has got us playing decent football, good shape, completely rebuilt the squad, and in the race for top 4.

Anyone who wants to discredit him is just doing it because they are stubborn imo.

myth. Most arsenal fans I spoke to start of the season, most on social media platforms were adamant their squad was better than spurs and they’d be right to think that. The fact spurs sometimes line up with a midfield of skipp and winks says it all really. Also nobody rated Emerson Royal or Bryan Gil. Your greatest ever player came out last week and said you should be finishing 4th in these circumstances. I agree on the United squad being better but as routinely mentioned, theyve been such a bunch of feck ups that the opportunity is there for someone to take 4th and if Arteta can’t get it done this year, you’d seriously have to question his credentials having previously finished 8th twice.

As @PoTMS said above he’s getting the same helping hand that Ole got last season, with two of their closest rivals having such poor seasons they had to sack their manager. With an added bonus of no other competitions to play in (apparently they’ll only play just over 40 matches this season!) Ole rode that wave all the way to second place. Let’s see if Arteta can do the same (spoiler: he can’t)

Yup, circumstances through a season can change expectancy. We came 2nd and a good half if not more of this forum weren’t particularly enamoured by Ole even then. Had Ole been 2nd currently in touching distance for city the outlook on him would be very different to how it was finishing 2nd last season.

 

[Nish115]

myth. Most arsenal fans I spoke to start of the season, most on social media platforms were adamant their squad was better than spurs and they’d be right to think that. The fact spurs sometimes line up with a midfield of skipp and winks says it all really. Also nobody rated Emerson Royal or Bryan Gil. Your greatest ever player came out last week and said you should be finishing 4th in these circumstances. I agree on the United squad being better but as routinely mentioned, theyve been such a bunch of feck ups that the opportunity is there for someone to take 4th and if Arteta can’t get it done this year, you’d seriously have to question his credentials having previously finished 8th twice.

Yup, circumstances through a season can change expectancy. We came 2nd and a good half if not more of this forum weren’t particularly enamoured by Ole even then. Had Ole been 2nd currently in touching distance for city the outlook on him would be very different to how it was finishing 2nd last season.

Also find this a bit rubbish. I'm on many forums, of which 95% said Spurs had a better squad at the start of the season and they'd finish above us. And.. what? Most people rated both those Spurs signings quite a lot.. especially more than our signings.

You seriously don't remember people mocking about how we got Spurs 2nd choice RB target in Tomiyasu??

 

[tenpoless]

He is going to stay long enough to become a Wenger isnt he?

 

[SER19]

Yeah, I keep reading Man Utd is a victim of the high spending of Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool and soon Newcastle too. It must be hard for Man Utd playing catch up in transfer fee and wages with these clubs.

Well that's a bizarre detour from what you were actually saying in the first place schoolboy arguing

 

[ForeverRed1]

credit to them for sticking to the manager even when it’s been really really tough at times, looks like the vision they had for him is starting to come through. They could of easily sacked him and got a conte.

 

[romufc]

No argument here. If he can do that he will be tier 1 manager/head coach in line with Klopp with the resource Arsenal has compared with Man City, United and Chelsea.

I love this narrative that Arsenal fans build in their heads that they do not spend.

Last 3 years net spend, United are about £294m, Arsenal are £281m. I guess if if Arsenal had the extra £12m to spend over 3 years, they'd be competing with City/ Chelsea.

 

[Nish115]

I love this narrative that Arsenal fans build in their heads that they do not spend.

Last 3 years net spend, United are about £294m, Arsenal are £281m. I guess if if Arsenal had the extra £12m to spend over 3 years, they'd be competing with City/ Chelsea.

Nobody said we don't spend. It's how we're spending so not sure what narrative you're saying. This window gone we spent a lot of money on players who in reality won't peak for a few years with the aim of them developing at Arsenal. Nobody expected instant success.

Besides, there's many factors to spend. Look at the Varane vs White debate. Varane costs £110m over his contract with barely any resale value. White costs £75m over his contract, with a high resale value potential. Yet your net spend will only look at White cost more than Varane.

Looking at net spend alone is pretty daft really. Not to mention we just haven't had any real assets to sell.

 

[romufc]

Nobody said we don't spend. It's how we're spending so not sure what narrative you're saying. This window gone we spent a lot of money on players who in reality won't peak for a few years with the aim of them developing at Arsenal. Nobody expected instant success.

Besides, there's many factors to spend. Look at the Varane vs White debate. Varane costs £110m over his contract with barely any resale value. White costs £75m over his contract, with a high resale value potential. Yet your net spend will only look at White cost more than Varane.

Looking at net spend alone is pretty daft really. Not to mention we just haven't had any real assets to sell.

Oh you want to look at resale value? There is no re-sale value if you take it on history where Arsenal players run their contracts down.

Also, Varane is a bigger commercial player than Ben White, if you want to look into that detail.

I was just referring to the poster who stated that If Arsenal had same resources.

I mean if Arsenal don't have ability to generate sales, they shouldn't look at other clubs like Chelsea saying they have more resources. Chelsea had a net spend of 0 last summer because they sold players and then they can spend £100m on a player.

 

[Nish115]

Not entirely against you on that, we need to get much better at selling players, we seem to be piss poor at it.

You can look at the contract running down theme but seems to just be a theme across every side now and will probably only get worse.

It's silly to say we haven't had resources, so anyone who said that I agree is a bit wrong. But, equally people who just say on Arsenal spent loads of money in the summer they should be in the top 4, that's pretty daft too. We spent money on trying to build the squad for the future, not really right now.

 

[GoonerBear]

Oh you want to look at resale value? There is no re-sale value if you take it on history where Arsenal players run their contracts down.

Also, Varane is a bigger commercial player than Ben White, if you want to look into that detail.

I was just referring to the poster who stated that If Arsenal had same resources.

I mean if Arsenal don't have ability to generate sales, they shouldn't look at other clubs like Chelsea saying they have more resources. Chelsea had a net spend of 0 last summer because they sold players and then they can spend £100m on a player.

Arsenal fans are saying we've spent a fair bit, but have spent it poorly previous years.

We are also saying that we have changed strategy, to buy younger hungrier players who have still to reach their peak, as the strategy of buying older players for big money on big contracts evidently wasn't working, either in terms of product on the pitch and also to try and run a self sustaining model as we end up hoarding players with no resale value.

Don't think anyone is disagreeing with your points but at least on the face of it we are actively trying to do something about it.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

It was only arguably “unimaginable“ because of their shit record in recent seasons under, checks notes, Mikel Arteta…

Arsenal have been in the mix for the top 4 under every manager ever and Arteta has spent more money than any Arseanal manager in Premier Lesgue history. By a huge margin. Unimaginable. Christ.

It also wasn't "unimaginable" at all. Many pointed out that being out of Europe and having a lot more time for coaching and less games would help them and it wouldn't be unrealistic for them to challenge for top 4, on top of being the biggest spenders of the summer. It's ridiculous what people make up to suit their agenda.

 

[romufc]

Arsenal fans are saying we've spent a fair bit, but have spent it poorly previous years.

We are also saying that we have changed strategy, to buy younger hungrier players who have still to reach their peak, as the strategy of buying older players for big money on big contracts evidently wasn't working, either in terms of product on the pitch and also to try and run a self sustaining model as we end up hoarding players with no resale value.

Don't think anyone is disagreeing with your points but at least on the face of it we are actively trying to do something about it.

Yeah ofcourse, its the same as United of a few years when we had a gungo ho approach on players, paying stupid amounts on fees and wages.

At the moment, I do not think anyone will reach City / Liverpool levels because the gap between the coaches is too much. I don't think there is a manager out there that is even close to their ability.

 

[ThierryFabregas]

As @PoTMS said above he’s getting the same helping hand that Ole got last season, with two of their closest rivals having such poor seasons they had to sack their manager. With an added bonus of no other competitions to play in (apparently they’ll only play just over 40 matches this season!) Ole rode that wave all the way to second place. Let’s see if Arteta can do the same (spoiler: he can’t)

I was Arteta out for a long time but I'm now fully onboard the Arteta train. There's a big differences between Arteta and Ole's management. Ole was really good at the man management of the dressing room but he didn't instill a style of play. Arteta has Arsenal playing as a unit in and out of possession. Defensively we've become hard to score against. Our pressing has seen us control games in the early play. We create far more now. As a group of individuals we don't have anyone who can produce magic like a Pogba or Ronaldo or Martial or maybe Greenwood. We don't even have a proper striker. Arteta is also creating a club culture that does not accept low standards. He's basically done a Fergie/Guardiola and booted out anyone who's a trouble maker. The only people left are those with the highest standards and are playing for the manager. The club culture at Arsenal has been soft for a long time and in Wenger's later years it was described as a 'holiday camp'. United have had the same problem, just recently your players leaking that they don't like the training. At the moment it feels like the players will run through walls through the manager.

Also bare in mind the mess Arteta took over. The club was mid-table when he took over and was conceeding 30 shots per game against the likes of Watford. The squad he took over was dire and full of flops and ageing strikers who would be well past their best by the time his first full season started. That's currently still the case and if he makes top 4 without a decent striker that's testiment to his methods working.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I was Arteta out for a long time but I'm now fully onboard the Arteta train. There's a big differences between Arteta and Ole's management. Ole was really good at the man management of the dressing room but he didn't instill a style of play. Arteta has Arsenal playing as a unit in and out of possession. Defensively we've become hard to score against. Our pressing has seen us control games in the early play. We create far more now. As a group of individuals we don't have anyone who can produce magic like a Pogba or Ronaldo or Martial or maybe Greenwood. We don't even have a proper striker. Arteta is also creating a club culture that does not accept low standards. He's basically done a Fergie/Guardiola and booted out anyone who's a trouble maker. The only people left are those with the highest standards and are playing for the manager. The club culture at Arsenal has been soft for a long time and in Wenger's later years it was described as a 'holiday camp'. United have had the same problem, just recently your players leaking that they don't like the training. At the moment it feels like the players will run through walls through the manager.

Also bare in mind the mess Arteta took over. The club was mid-table when he took over and was conceeding 30 shots per game against the likes of Watford. The squad he took over was dire and full of flops and ageing strikers who would be well past their best by the time his first full season started. That's currently still the case and if he makes top 4 without a decent striker that's testiment to his methods working.

That bit in bold is spectacularly wrong. Arteta has been fortunate enough to inherit Saka and ESR, who are comfortably as good as Rashford/Greenwood and neither of whom seem intent on wasting their talent with a lack of application, or being a vile human being.

Odegaard is clearly a far better player than Martial and as for “not even having a proper striker” the striker that Arteta drove out of your club would be an instant upgrade on our geriatric pair, as we can see from his immediate impact at Barca. Lacazette would also improve us a lot, even though he’s not scoring many goals.

As for Pogba, I don’t know how you can hang out on this website and not be aware what a poisoned chalice he’s been for every United manager he’s worked with.

I agree that Arsenal have a recognisable style of play under Arteta but I’m not buying into this “cultural reboot” crap any more than I did when people said the same thing about Ole. Arsenal have a better squad now than they did before, which is to be expected after a MASSIVE spending spree. Arteta has to crack top four this season with this squad of players, no European football to think about and with your rivals all in the shit. He won’t get a better chance again. The fact he isn’t already comfortably ahead speaks volumes.

 

[cesc's_mullet]

That bit in bold is spectacularly wrong. Arteta has been fortunate enough to inherit Saka and ESR, who are comfortably as good as Rashford/Greenwood and neither of whom seem intent on wasting their talent with a lack of application, or being a vile human being.

Odegaard is clearly a far better player than Martial and as for “not even having a proper striker” the striker that Arteta drove out of your club would be an instant upgrade on our geriatric pair, as we can see from his immediate impact at Barca. Lacazette would also improve us a lot, even though he’s not scoring many goals.

As for Pogba, I don’t know how you can hang out on this website and not be aware what a poisoned chalice he’s been for every United manager he’s worked with.

I agree that Arsenal have a recognisable style of play under Arteta but I’m not buying into this “cultural reboot” crap any more than I did when people said the same thing about Ole. Arsenal have a better squad now than they did before, which is to be expected after a MASSIVE spending spree. Arteta has to crack top four this season with this squad of players and with your rivals all in the shit. The fact he isn’t already comfortably ahead speaks volumes.

I'm not Arteta's biggest fan, and I wanted him binned after last season (in fact by Christmas).

I think Ole and Arteta are quite the opposite when it comes to their "cultural reset."

Ole seemingly wanted to be everyone's friend, and it could come across as being weak at times. Whereas Arteta is (too) ruthless. It's either his way or you're out, no questions asked. This can come across as him being a kn*b - especially when you've proven absolutely nothing as a manager as yet.

I wish Arteta was a mix of the two, as we have lost two players in particular due to his hard-headedness that would be really helpful for this top four push - both PEA and Guendouzi. Admittedly PEA wasn't playing well, but when your other options are Laca and Eddie then it's surely a no-brainer keeping PEA for the rest of the season? Even as a back-up.

It's 2022 and we still have El-Neny at the club AND he's essentially 4th choice at the moment. That is unbelievable. Guendouzi is so much more talented and could play multiple midfield roles.

I fear we may lose Saliba too due to Arteta being a totalitarian. This kid looks like a star CB in the making and he may leave without ever being given a chance at the club.

If only Arteta would not be so hard headed and work with those last three, then we would be in a better place in the immediate future, and a much better place in the long-term future.

 

[cesc's_mullet]

Arsenal will struggle next year when they have to play in Europe. They may scrape by into top 4 this year by virtue of having no european football and a favourable schedule. Next year the wheels will come off.

Our squad is way too thin.

Players you'd want to carry into next season:

CF - None
LW/RW - Saka, ESR, Martinelli, Pepe
AM - Ødegaard
CM - Partey, Lokonga + maybe Xhaka
LB - Tierney, Tavares
RB - Tomiyasu
CB - Gabriel, White, Saliba (hopefully) + maybe Holding
GK - Ramsdale

We still need:
- two forwards
- at least one starting quality CM
- a backup RB
- another CB if the relationship with Saliba is ruined
- a backup GK if that random American lad isn't ready

Maybe AMN and Guendouzi return from loan, though I think their papers are stamped. And will hopefully see Patino (CM), Omari Hutchinson (wing) and Balogun (CF) get some time in the senior side.

But really there is still a lot more work to be done with the squad. Especially if we are playing in Europe.

 

[Nish115]

Our squad is way too thin.

Players you'd want to carry into next season:

CF - None
LW/RW - Saka, ESR, Martinelli, Pepe
AM - Ødegaard
CM - Partey, Lokonga + maybe Xhaka
LB - Tierney, Tavares
RB - Tomiyasu
CB - Gabriel, White, Saliba (hopefully) + maybe Holding
GK - Ramsdale

We still need:
- two forwards
- at least one starting quality CM
- a backup RB
- another CB if the relationship with Saliba is ruined
- a backup GK if that random American lad isn't ready

Maybe AMN and Guendouzi return from loan, though I think their papers are stamped. And will hopefully see Patino (CM), Omari Hutchinson (wing) and Balogun (CF) get some time in the senior side.

But really there is still a lot more work to be done with the squad. Especially if we are playing in Europe.

I mean he's the US number 1, i'm sure he's ready to be our backup or at least that's the aim.

We have RB in the academy who is impressing on loan, so we might wait on that one.

2xST and DM are main ones. I think Saliba will have a role next season.

 

[gajender]

I don't rate Arteta or the work he is doing with Arsenal it's eerily similar to what was Sold to United fans Under Solskjaer ,but if they get top 4 and also hit 70 points marks this season he would have done done fantastic job for this season without reading too much into it for their future prospects .

Ps I don't think they will make top 4 or hit 70 points and Arteta would be sacked around 12-15 games into next season.

 

[Il Prete Rosso]

They're performing well this season and deserve credit for it.

Next season will allow us to see if this is going somewhere.

He's managed to change the culture and he's very clear on what he wants on the pitch. I really think Vlahovic would have given that team a major boost. It's hard to find top strikers in the modern game anymore.

 

[Il Prete Rosso]

I don't rate Arteta or the work he is doing with Arsenal it's eerily similar to what was Sold to United fans Under Solskjaer ,but if they get top 4 and also hit 70 points marks this season he would have done done fantastic job for this season without reading too much into it for their future prospects .

Ps I don't think they will make top 4 or hit 70 points and Arteta would be sacked around 12-15 games into next season.

I strongly disagree. One of the things we all knew about Arsenal was the toxic culture around the club, it's staff, it's players and even the fans. He's managed to change that which in organizational transformation is the hardest thing to do...CULTURE CHANGE. After that, you can clearly see by the transfer window last summer that he wants a young squad and he got rid of many players who were obviously not performing over a period of time. If I were rating him thus far I would give him a 7/10 for that alone. The team is playing well, there's a togetherness in the squad that you weren't seeing for years and most importantly, he's willing to make the tough decisions for the good of the team. What I saw during yesterday's game was an Arsenal team I haven't seen in many years...conceded in a must win game early and basically applied pressure for the rest of the game and won it. These are things I usually saw in a Fergie's Man Utd team. They are definitely missing a top, clinical striker and it's clear they wanted to address that in January with their bid for Vlahovic. Who they get in the summer, I don't know but I think what Arteta managed to achieve and what Ole didn't was change the culture at the club.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I What I saw during yesterday's game was an Arsenal team I haven't seen in many years...conceded in a must win game early and basically applied pressure for the rest of the game and won it. These are things I usually saw in a Fergie's Man Utd team. They are definitely missing a top, clinical striker and it's clear they wanted to address that in January with their bid for Vlahovic. Who they get in the summer, I don't know but I think what Arteta managed to achieve and what Ole didn't was change the culture at the club.

This is a classic example of the knee-jerk plaudits Arteta gets every time they get a half-decent result. That was the one and only time this season they won after going behind. It’s far more typical of Arteta’s Arsenal to do the exact opposite. They’re an outlier in the wrong direction here. There are teams much further down the table with a better track record of responding well to adversity. Trying to portray last night as somehow typical of that team is fecking nuts.

The other classic knee-jerk is the “turning point” result. We saw the same bollox after they player well and lost to City (something Spurs have already surpassed since) which somehow got forgotten about when they promptly followed it up with a boring nil all against Burnley.

 

[Fridge chutney]

Our squad is way too thin.

Players you'd want to carry into next season:

CF - None
LW/RW - Saka, ESR, Martinelli, Pepe
AM - Ødegaard
CM - Partey, Lokonga + maybe Xhaka
LB - Tierney, Tavares
RB - Tomiyasu
CB - Gabriel, White, Saliba (hopefully) + maybe Holding
GK - Ramsdale

We still need:
- two forwards
- at least one starting quality CM
- a backup RB
- another CB if the relationship with Saliba is ruined
- a backup GK if that random American lad isn't ready

Maybe AMN and Guendouzi return from loan, though I think their papers are stamped. And will hopefully see Patino (CM), Omari Hutchinson (wing) and Balogun (CF) get some time in the senior side.

But really there is still a lot more work to be done with the squad. Especially if we are playing in Europe.

Agreed. Without heavy investment next year will be a challenge (for United and Arsenal both!)

 

[Powderfinger]

I mean he's the US number 1, i'm sure he's ready to be our backup or at least that's the aim.

We have RB in the academy who is impressing on loan, so we might wait on that one.

2xST and DM are main ones. I think Saliba will have a role next season.

Yeah, I agree with all this. We'll see how he does but the club clearly believes that they've sorted the backup GK position. I also doubt that backup RB is much of a priority. Cedric isn't ideal by any stretch but he's not awful and both White and Saliba could also do a job there.

I am pretty confident about Saliba returning. He has been saying the right things, he fits our system well, and he hasn't made any real money in his career yet so he has a big incentive to sign a new deal with a pay rise and lock in "take care of your family for life" money.

We are playing a tactic more like 4-3-3 recently so I think we need an all action 8 more than a DM to take Xhaka's starting place and push him to a backup role. Then I'd say one striker and one forward who can play across the front line and we are in good shape.

The wild cards would be selling either Xhaka or Pepe. I think there is some chance of them going (I wouldn't mind personally) and if we did that we'd need to replace like-for-like with a CM or a winger.

We will get some money from sales this summer as well. Torreira to Fiorentina seems all but guaranteed, we'll get the small amounts from Guendouzi and Mavropanos' loan-to-buy transfers, and it looks like Bellerin and Betis are a good marriage although I bet the fee is small. Somebody will buy Leno, although again probably for a small fee. No idea about AMN.

All in all the squad management has been really good. We'll have essentially turned the entire roster over in the span of 2-3 years and if we get the recruitment right this summer we'll have a young cohort of players that can stay together for an extended 3-5 year stretch and only needs a little tweak each summer to follow rather than major surgery.

 

[ThatsGreat]

I love this narrative that Arsenal fans build in their heads that they do not spend.

Last 3 years net spend, United are about £294m, Arsenal are £281m. I guess if if Arsenal had the extra £12m to spend over 3 years, they'd be competing with City/ Chelsea.

Yeah, don't agree with the Arsenal don't spend narrative. Last nights best players were a 50m Partey, 45m Laca and a 70m Pepe.

 

[Hansi Fick]

Yeah, don't agree with the Arsenal don't spend narrative. Last nights best players were a 50m Partey, 45m Laca and a 70m Pepe.

60m Aubameyang was pretty good again, too, last night.

 

[ThatsGreat]

60m Aubameyang was pretty good again, too, last night.

We didn't have room for 2 strikers and Laca is a better fit for an Arteta team.

 

[TwoSheds]

Yeah, I agree with all this. We'll see how he does but the club clearly believes that they've sorted the backup GK position. I also doubt that backup RB is much of a priority. Cedric isn't ideal by any stretch but he's not awful and both White and Saliba could also do a job there.

I am pretty confident about Saliba returning. He has been saying the right things, he fits our system well, and he hasn't made any real money in his career yet so he has a big incentive to sign a new deal with a pay rise and lock in "take care of your family for life" money.

We are playing a tactic more like 4-3-3 recently so I think we need an all action 8 more than a DM to take Xhaka's starting place and push him to a backup role. Then I'd say one striker and one forward who can play across the front line and we are in good shape.

The wild cards would be selling either Xhaka or Pepe. I think there is some chance of them going (I wouldn't mind personally) and if we did that we'd need to replace like-for-like with a CM or a winger.

We will get some money from sales this summer as well. Torreira to Fiorentina seems all but guaranteed, we'll get the small amounts from Guendouzi and Mavropanos' loan-to-buy transfers, and it looks like Bellerin and Betis are a good marriage although I bet the fee is small. Somebody will buy Leno, although again probably for a small fee. No idea about AMN.

All in all the squad management has been really good. We'll have essentially turned the entire roster over in the span of 2-3 years and if we get the recruitment right this summer we'll have a young cohort of players that can stay together for an extended 3-5 year stretch and only needs a little tweak each summer to follow rather than major surgery.

Do you really think the likes of Ramsdale and White are good enough for you to kick on and win things? I think most of your first XI are squad player material tbh. I like Smith-Rowe, Saka and Martinelli and Odegaard is starting to look pretty decent but I don't think there's anyone who looks likely to go on to be world class really.

 

[captaincantona]

Do you really think the likes of Ramsdale and White are good enough for you to kick on and win things? I think most of your first XI are squad player material tbh. I like Smith-Rowe, Saka and Martinelli and Odegaard is starting to look pretty decent but I don't think there's anyone who looks likely to go on to be world class really.

What on earth is wrong with Ramsdale?

 

[Nish115]

What on earth is wrong with Ramsdale?

This.

It's like people haven't learnt from Liverpool. People said the same thing about most their team.. yet.. look at them. Organised and all playing their roles perfectly.

People who slate White also have no clue at all and just go off hearsay. He's been our best defender this season imo. And this is a defense in which where he has played has been one of the best in the league. Yet apparently he isn't good enough. And honestly even if he isn't Saliba could be.

Ramsdale is a fantastic keeper, but time will tell if he keeps it up.

 

[ThierryFabregas]

That bit in bold is spectacularly wrong. Arteta has been fortunate enough to inherit Saka and ESR, who are comfortably as good as Rashford/Greenwood and neither of whom seem intent on wasting their talent with a lack of application, or being a vile human being.

Odegaard is clearly a far better player than Martial and as for “not even having a proper striker” the striker that Arteta drove out of your club would be an instant upgrade on our geriatric pair, as we can see from his immediate impact at Barca. Lacazette would also improve us a lot, even though he’s not scoring many goals.

As for Pogba, I don’t know how you can hang out on this website and not be aware what a poisoned chalice he’s been for every United manager he’s worked with.

I agree that Arsenal have a recognisable style of play under Arteta but I’m not buying into this “cultural reboot” crap any more than I did when people said the same thing about Ole. Arsenal have a better squad now than they did before, which is to be expected after a MASSIVE spending spree. Arteta has to crack top four this season with this squad of players, no European football to think about and with your rivals all in the shit. He won’t get a better chance again. The fact he isn’t already comfortably ahead speaks volumes.

Saka and ESR are good young talents that in my view are players good in a functioning system that great players in their own right. They had poor end product for a long time. I think if they went to a better team than us they'd flop. In the last 5 months they are seemingly improving on their end product but it's more team goals rather than winning a match on their own. I tend to think Bruno, Pogba, CR7 and to a lesser extent Greenwood/Rashford are better match winners who can make something out of nothing. Ofcourse you have the huge talent of Sancho too, who's had a difficult start.

I imagine Pogba is an Ozil type of player who needs licence to roam in a fairly free role and not have too many defensive responsibilities. I think he wants to drift into space, run past a player or 2 and pick a pass and hit and reset without messing about with midfield tracking back and building off passes from the centre back. I suspect part of United's problem is pairing Pogba with Bruno because neither does enough defensively. I think playing Pogba as a fixed 8 is part of your problems. I'd be curious if you think I'm right about this, or it's more nuanced than this.

As for Auba being a good striker. He hasn't been near that for the last 18 months which coincided with him signing a new contract. We also started playing far better after we dropped him because when he isn't scoring it's like playing with 10 players. It's possible Auba could be a good striker without the demands of defensive responsibility.

As for the 'massive spending spree'. We replaced Luiz with White, upgraded our goalkeeper, made a loan deal permant, bought a right back many did not rate, but a young inexperienced left back. There is a load of money spent and the players look like decent buys but it's not really game changing transfers. We've not got anyone playing for us as good Alexis, Ozil, Cazorla

 

[ThierryFabregas]

Maybe AMN and Guendouzi return from loan, though I think their papers are stamped. And will hopefully see Patino (CM), Omari Hutchinson (wing) and Balogun (CF) get some time in the senior side.

Balogun had no goals in 8 games and Boro fans thinks he needs benching. Guen and AMN are pretty much guaranteed to be off

 

[Suedesi]

Arsenal are the most annoying fanbase ever

 

[noodlehair]

I'd make them just about favourites for 4th now, which you have to give Arteta some credit for as I don't think they have a great team and I'd have out them as mid table if anything. He's used the younger players well without drowning them, at least made a decisive move with offloading the problem causer, and has them looking more solid than they have in any other recent season.

At the same time it just as much reflects badly on United and Spurs as I don't think Arsenal have particularly overachieved or played spectacularly well either. In fact they've been shite in quite a lot of games and resort to reducer/time wasting tactics sometimes with literally half the game to go.

Also slight favourites is on the basis they're Arsenal and I actually still expect them to feck it up. It's just that I also expect United to feck it up and Spurs to stay in some kind of weird semi freefall where they put everything on Kane despite him only showing up half the time. West Ham just aren't quite good enough and Wolves don't score enough goals.

 

[noodlehair]

Arsenal are the most annoying fanbase ever

Spurs fans are extremely irritating although it might just be the ones I know. At least Arsenal fans arrogance is based on them actually being relevant at some point over the last 30 years.

 

[Powderfinger]

Do you really think the likes of Ramsdale and White are good enough for you to kick on and win things? I think most of your first XI are squad player material tbh. I like Smith-Rowe, Saka and Martinelli and Odegaard is starting to look pretty decent but I don't think there's anyone who looks likely to go on to be world class really.

If we're talking about winning the league, then its always going to be a huge long shot for a team in Arsenal's financial position. We would realistically need a bunch of these players to all kick up a level together. In the 17 years since Roman arrived at Chelsea, the three wealthiest clubs have won 15 titles. And soon we'll have Newcastle in the mix. For a club like Arsenal you basically need the perfect storm of absolutely everything going right to even think about challenging a side on City's current level.

But I think squad player material is far too harsh. All the guys you mention have been good this season and are in the part of their careers where you expect them to improve over the next couple years. If we get the recruitment right this summer at the very least Arsenal should have a team for a 4-5 year period that is very competitive for top four, competitive for the domestic cups, and sometimes crazy things happen in the European competitions too.

 

[TwoSheds]

If we're talking about winning the league, then its always going to be a huge long shot for a team in Arsenal's financial position. We would realistically need a bunch of these players to all kick up a level together. In the 17 years since Roman arrived at Chelsea, the three wealthiest clubs have won 15 titles. And soon we'll have Newcastle in the mix. For a club like Arsenal you basically need the perfect storm of absolutely everything going right to even think about challenging a side on City's current level.

But I think squad player material is far too harsh. All the guys you mention have been good this season and are in the part of their careers where you expect them to improve over the next couple years. If we get the recruitment right this summer at the very least Arsenal should have a team for a 4-5 year period that is very competitive for top four, competitive for the domestic cups, and sometimes crazy things happen in the European competitions too.

But you've had money. If you used these young lads as a base and added 2 or 3 top players around them then I don't see why you couldn't challenge. The problem is so far Arteta has fallen out with, benched or ruined most of your big name signings so he needs to find some superstars he can work with or eventually I think your young lads will get fed up and move on like Fabregas, Van Persie etc did.

 

[Powderfinger]

But you've had money. If you used these young lads as a base and added 2 or 3 top players around them then I don't see why you couldn't challenge. The problem is so far Arteta has fallen out with, benched or ruined most of your big name signings so he needs to find some superstars he can work with or eventually I think your young lads will get fed up and move on like Fabregas, Van Persie etc did.

Arteta inherited a dumpster fire of a roster with almost no young talent, a broken internal culture featuring far too much player power, and the most talented players over 30 and declining, and he has spent like 200m to remake the roster pretty significantly. Pep has spent nearly a billion to build on top of a foundation that already included guys like KDB and Sterling, the situations are not remotely comparable.

To have any chance of hitting the highest levels, I agree Arteta does need to figure out either how to turn 1-2 of our young widemen into superstars, sign a world class striker who can play in his system, or both. Unfortunately there aren't many sure thing strikers out there right now, especially with Vlahovic gone.

 

[cesc's_mullet]

I don't rate Arteta or the work he is doing with Arsenal it's eerily similar to what was Sold to United fans Under Solskjaer ,but if they get top 4 and also hit 70 points marks this season he would have done done fantastic job for this season without reading too much into it for their future prospects .

Ps I don't think they will make top 4 or hit 70 points and Arteta would be sacked around 12-15 games into next season.

In what way is it similar to what United fans were sold under Ole?

I don't think we will make top four, and am not the biggest Arteta fan, but I don't see how the situations are similar.

 

[cesc's_mullet]

Arteta inherited a dumpster fire of a roster with almost no young talent, a broken internal culture featuring far too much player power, and the most talented players over 30 and declining, and he has spent like 200m to remake the roster pretty significantly. Pep has spent nearly a billion to build on top of a foundation that already included guys like KDB and Sterling, the situations are not remotely comparable.

To have any chance of hitting the highest levels, I agree Arteta does need to figure out either how to turn 1-2 of our young widemen into superstars, sign a world class striker who can play in his system, or both. Unfortunately there aren't many sure thing strikers out there right now, especially with Vlahovic gone.

Our quality young players like Saka, ESR, Martinelli, Guendouzi, Saliba and KT were already at the club when Arteta took over. Emery had already brought Saka into the senior side by the time he was sacked.

Saka, ESR and Martinelli have all been able to develop into quality players. But he has shipped out Guendouzi, and we may now lose Saliba too.

He and Edu have brought in Ramsdale, Gabriel, Ødegaard, Tomiyasu and White - none of which were "youngsters" as such, though their best years are certainly ahead of them.

Arteta has had a stronger squad and achieved worse results than Emery did, to date. It looks like that's slowly turning around though.

Arteta and Edu can have some credit for easing the wage pressure we were under, and they deserve credit for signing quality players like - Gabriel, Ramsdale, White and Ødegaard.

But conversely Arteta pursued and signed Willian, Mari and Soares. All three were absolutely not good enough, and who didn't see that coming at the time? We were the only club to offer Willian three years on big money. Only club to offer Soares a four year deal on good money. Only club to sign a 26 year old CB who had toiled away in Holland, Segunda Division and Brazil.

It's certainly been a mixed bag.

 

[Powderfinger]

Our quality young players like Saka, ESR, Martinelli, Guendouzi, Saliba and KT were already at the club when Arteta took over. Emery had already brought Saka into the senior side by the time he was sacked.

That is true but needs a bit of qualification. Saliba was on loan, Saka had started three league matches as a wingback, Martinelli was an 18 year old who had just got his first league start, and ESR was barely on the fringe of the first team. Those guys were in the Arsenal organization but were hardly major parts of the squad, not much different than say Patino and Balogun right now.

Guendouzi and Tierney were really the only young established first team players. This is only my opinion but I think Guendouzi was never going to work out with a manager like Arteta because he is a tactically undisciplined player who wants the freedom to wander around the pitch and that is never going to work in any kind of disciplined tactical system.

Largely the roster was a dumpster fire. Mustafi, Kola, Luiz, Sokratis, Chambers, and Bellerin were our defenders who played the most minutes that year. Guendouzi, Xhaka, Torreira, Ceballos were our central midfielders. Honestly, Xhaka is the best player of those 10 which really says a lot because he is somebody we still need to improve on. Attack had more talent but also huge headaches. We had just spent 200m on three forwards who couldn't play together but also couldn't be moved on due to age/wages/Covid, only one of whom (Auba) was even good enough and he was 30.

Arteta has had a stronger squad and achieved worse results than Emery did, to date. It looks like that's slowly turning around though.

Arteta has gotten 1.72 points per match in the PL while Emery has gotten 1.73, so I wouldn't say his results have been worse, especially given that he won a domestic cup too. More importantly, Arteta has a plan for building a team around a modern philosophy whereas Emery never demonstrated any semblance of a plan for how to build a team.

Arteta is arguably lucky to still have his job after the disaster of fall 2020 but the club stuck with him and we appear to be reaping the benefits of that decision.

Arteta and Edu can have some credit for easing the wage pressure we were under, and they deserve credit for signing quality players like - Gabriel, Ramsdale, White and Ødegaard.

But conversely Arteta pursued and signed Willian, Mari and Soares. All three were absolutely not good enough, and who didn't see that coming at the time? We were the only club to offer Willian three years on big money. Only club to offer Soares a four year deal on good money. Only club to sign a 26 year old CB who had toiled away in Holland, Segunda Division and Brazil.

It's certainly been a mixed bag.

I agree that recruitment has been a mixed bag but most of Arteta/Edu's mistakes in the market have been when they tried to go cheap (Willian, Mari, Cedric). When they have spent significant money on fees, their record has actually been pretty good. White, Partey, Odegaard, Ramsdale, Gabriel, Tomiyasu all look like successful transfers. Going six for six on your biggest purchases doesn't happen that often. The jury is still out on Lokonga but at worst we'll probably get our money back or close given that he is young and on cheap wages.