Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch

shamans said:
Arsenal are a different club with different expectations. For me, arteta is a slightly better coach than ole. Also laying cones for pep sort of is an achievement I would take over relegating Cardiff. Not to mention he has actually won a trophy (which if he hadn't would have him sacked)

I have a gut feeling Arteta won't be the coach for Arsenal and eventually may get the sack but I'm not ruling out he actually does turn it around.

Lastly, whenever people compare the likes of arteta or pirlo with ole they forget he is 39, younger than a current playing professional zlatan Ibrahimovic. Ole is a seasoned manager -- older than tuchel so "potential" is another factor.
Click to expand...

I would take manager who won league titles in Norway than the guy who lays cones or carries drinks.

Expectations are different but they have spent shit loads of money. They have spent 3rd most money since his arrival. The season he took over, they signed Pepe, Saliba, Tierney for good money, spending around 150 million. From Ole's first full season, Arsenal have spent only 40-45 million less than ManUtd.

Also just because they are in 30s doesn't mean they have potential, Arteta showed nothing to say he has potential to be a good manager, same with Pirlo.
 
shamans said:
Arsenal are a different club with different expectations. For me, arteta is a slightly better coach than ole. Also laying cones for pep sort of is an achievement I would take over relegating Cardiff. Not to mention he has actually won a trophy (which if he hadn't would have him sacked)

I have a gut feeling Arteta won't be the coach for Arsenal and eventually may get the sack but I'm not ruling out he actually does turn it around.

Lastly, whenever people compare the likes of arteta or pirlo with ole they forget he is 39, younger than a current playing professional zlatan Ibrahimovic. Ole is a seasoned manager -- older than tuchel so "potential" is another factor.
Click to expand...
Yeah we are arguing who is less shit. I feel Arteta's work is massively overhyped. Don't think he is doing any special job. It's also funny how when it comes to Ole he is just judged by his cardiff stint. Ole did a much better job managing United than Arteta has done at Arsenal and yeah doesn't change that because he won a FA cup.

Also, I would take a manager who actually finished 3rd and 2nd than a manager who just pretends to know what he is doing.
 
AshRK said:
Yeah a manager finishing 6th, 3rd and 2nd is more inept than a manager finishing 8th and 8th and currently in 7th after spending the highest this season. Ole was poor this season but had he walked off at the end of last season, his record doesn't look too shabby. Arteta is far worse and gets a free pass because he put cones for Pep.
Click to expand...

I mean, we're basically arguing who is the least substandard manager out of the two.

The way I see it, Ole spent close to half a billion and won nothing. Lego pep atleast won an FA cup!
 
Ayoba said:
I mean, we're basically arguing who is the least substandard manager out of the two.

The way I see it, Ole spent close to half a billion and won nothing. Lego pep atleast won an FA cup!
Click to expand...

Ole spent 285 million in 2 full seasons he managed, finished 2nd and 3rd.

Arteta has spent 77 million in full season, finished 8th. Now he has spent 150 million, so total he spent around 227 million, lets see if he can finish at least top 6.
 
AshRK said:
Yeah we are arguing who is less shit. I feel Arteta's work is massively overhyped. Don't think he is doing any special job. It's also funny how when it comes to Ole he is just judged by his cardiff stint. Ole did a much better job managing United than Arteta has done at Arsenal and yeah doesn't change that because he won a FA cup.

Also, I would take a manager who actually finished 3rd and 2nd than a manager who just pretends to know what he is doing.
Click to expand...
Absolutely. Arteta is still talked about like he has huge potential and we're all waiting for him to fulfil it. Its baffling. Ole did a better job, there I said it although I'll probably get abuse cause you know Ole is the worst manager ever anywhere.
 
I've read a few times now, that his tactics are cowardly. I don't think they are, I think he goes into away games with a team that's too open for the quality he has.

I don't think he tells his team to sit back & struggle to keep possession when they have the lead, I think there is a mentality thing in the players that think they should retreat. It's an attitude thing for me, a lot of the time it is at Arsenal, I think Utd wanted it more the other night, I think Everton certainly wanted it more last night. Don't get me wrong, it's still something that falls on the manager, that he is isn't getting his message across, or that he isn't getting the players up for it somehow.

Don't get me wrong theres still issues within the team. We are physically weak up front, so struggle to hold onto the ball when it gets played forward, so the ball tends to come back to us regularly. Players like Saka, Martinelli, Odegaard, Smith-Rowe, really talanted but can be bullied a bit, guys like Auba & Laca aren't really well known for hold up play & bringing others into play, you can see why he's looking at guys like Vlahovic or Calvert-Lewin going forward.

In saying that, I think he plays too open a formation for these big away games. Look at the results recently, 4 goals conceded at Anfield, 3 at Old Trafford, could easily have been 4 last night. He sets up in that 4231 formation, & we after initially looking a bit better we now have became easy to play through again. The fact he can't see that is worrying. Said it countless times that he should probably go back to 3 at the back in these away games or at least a proper 433.
His choice of substitions is worrying as well.
 
Lego Pep as an observation of comic genius still tickles me. In that world Arteta is Mr Barbie, Ken or whatever —the eighties version when he had black hair.
 
GoonerBear said:
I've read a few times now, that his tactics are cowardly. I don't think they are, I think he goes into away games with a team that's too open for the quality he has.
Click to expand...
No, you generally don't press much and defend in a deep block. And its by design. You're just not very good

I don't think he tells his team to sit back & struggle to keep possession when they have the lead, I think there is a mentality thing in the players that think they should retreat.
Click to expand...
That actually seems to be what Arteta wants

It's an attitude thing for me, a lot of the time it is at Arsenal, I think Utd wanted it more the other night, I think Everton certainly wanted it more last night. Don't get me wrong, it's still something that falls on the manager, that he is isn't getting his message across, or that he isn't getting the players up for it somehow.
Click to expand...
He sold Bellerin, a "traditional" wingback, and replaced him with a CB hybrid whose natural role would be the RCB in a back-3, and is very much a strictly defensive player...

He has Tierney, a modern, really good wingback yet keeps playing Nuno Tavares...

In saying that, I think he plays too open a formation for these big away games. Look at the results recently, 4 goals conceded at Anfield, 3 at Old Trafford, could easily have been 4 last night. He sets up in that 4231 formation, & we after initially looking a bit better we now have became easy to play through again. The fact he can't see that is worrying. Said it countless times that he should probably go back to 3 at the back in these away games or at least a proper 433.
His choice of substitions is worrying as well.
Click to expand...
I watched the games. You didn't play too open. You're just bad at defending.

You're just not a good team. Your manager is the picture of mediocrity
 
Arteta looks the part but he is an empty vase. I don't get any impression of intelligence or charisma when he speaks. He might wing it longer than Ole but he is not the level that Arsenal need. His scapegoating of Ozil still grates on me as do his sh*thouse celebrations against Utd.
 
I know we're not very good mate, never said once that we were. So when your team is not very good, has deficiencies mainly still being a bit soft & a bit weak, stiffen it up sometimes. You don't have to play 4 players like Odegaard, Martinelli, Saka & Lacazette away from home. Sure, at home you can mostly get away with it. Away from home at tough grounds, it's very difficult unless you are Man City to do that.

And yeah, I put that on the manager.
 
GoonerBear said:
I know we're not very good mate, never said once that we were. So when your team is not very good, has deficiencies mainly still being a bit soft & a bit weak, stiffen it up sometimes. You don't have to play 4 players like Odegaard, Martinelli, Saka & Lacazette away from home. Sure, at home you can mostly get away with it. Away from home at tough grounds, it's very difficult unless you are Man City to do that.

And yeah, I put that on the manager.
Click to expand...
It seems he is trying. You just don't do it very well. To be fair, you aren't actually bad in a deep block, just not great, and pretty much catastrophic in every other situation

Playing all 4 of those guys is kind of needed considering how poor you are in attack
 
roonster09 said:
Ole spent 285 million in 2 full seasons he managed, finished 2nd and 3rd.

Arteta has spent 77 million in full season, finished 8th. Now he has spent 150 million, so total he spent around 227 million, lets see if he can finish at least top 6.
Click to expand...
Doesnt paint the whole picture. Ole inherited a better squad and he managed to sign Ronaldo and Varane for very cheap discounted deals (because of United stature as a club). Meanwhile Arteta has to cope with Ben White for 50mil because in no way shape or form Varane would join them even for the same price. Anyhow both are crap managers
 
Last edited:
They were trying to protect a 1-0 lead the way Burnley would if they were 1-0 up with half an hour left an Anfield.
 
Jackal981 said:
Doesnt paint the whole picture. Ole inherited a better squad and he managed to sign Ronaldo and Varane for very cheap discounted deals (because of United stature as a club). Meanwhile Arteta has to cope with Ben White for 50mil because in no way shape or form Varane would join them. Anyhow both are crap managers
Click to expand...

2 full seasons doesn't include Ronaldo and Varane.

Yeah both are poor managers.
 
Will be interesting to see if Arteta manages to quickly pick up the team again. In previous seasons, they have had a tendency to go on quite long runs of bad results, but with Southampton, West Ham, Leeds, Norwich and Wolves in their next five games, they have a good chance of bouncing back (West Ham being the most difficult game). If they don't, they will surely end up solidly mid-table again, and real questions have to be asked.
 
Hopefully Arsenal are patient in him for a long time and let him realize his "project". Give him 500 million until he has all the players he has desired.
 
Everton have a stronger first 11 then Arsenal when everyone is fit. I've seen many people rave about Partey before he joined them but he's ben very average everytime I've seen them.

They've got it all to do to make the top 6.
 
giorno said:
It seems he is trying. You just don't do it very well. To be fair, you aren't actually bad in a deep block, just not great, and pretty much catastrophic in every other situation

Playing all 4 of those guys is kind of needed considering how poor you are in attack
Click to expand...

Work in most of the home games, where we need that extra forward to break teams down because like you say, we are poor in attack.

Doesn't work in certain away games, because we can get easily overpowered at times, and we struggle at times to keep the ball / teams get the ball from us too easily, which means we get left vulnerable.

It's not like we were playing attacking football like Leeds last season & losing 4-3, even then at some point you say this isn't working we need to tighten up, but we aren't even doing that in the main. So tighten it up, become harder to score against, & try and nick something on the break. Teams like Chelsea & Brighton have shown that 3 at the back doesn't have to be a defensive formation. Teams like Liverpool are ultra attacking without a recognised attacking midfielder in their 3.

Its all about team selection and coaching and he's not doing well at either.
 
Their signings have been poor and a waste of money.

But let's be real here, that Arsenal XI/squad, where does it finish in the league with a good coach?

They're not better than City, Liverpool, Chelsea or United.

I'd have West Ham and Spurs' XI over Arsenal's too. I'd say it's up for argument for Everton too.

They've got a 7-8th place quality XI/squad. That's where they belong.
 
Arsenal definitely has a better squad than Spurs now , especially when Kane is as useful as PEA this season. They also has better depth than West Ham although based on current performance combined first XI would be 7-8 WHU players.

It’s not amazing and clearly a notch or two below United, but a competent coach can have them in with an outside chance of top 4, similar to how Brentan did with Leicester, given the advantage of no midweek football.
 
They clearly have some great individuals in the squad, but somehow they cannot assemble a functional team with all the quality available. People are underrating their players because they are playing like crap as a unit, and that affects every player's performance.
Not saying they are a top 4 side, but they clearly have enough individual quality to at least be a contender for the 4th position.
 
DutchCruijff said:
Their signings have been poor and a waste of money.

But let's be real here, that Arsenal XI/squad, where does it finish in the league with a good coach?

They're not better than City, Liverpool, Chelsea or United.

I'd have West Ham and Spurs' XI over Arsenal's too. I'd say it's up for argument for Everton too.

They've got a 7-8th place quality XI/squad. That's where they belong.
Click to expand...
Depends on whether they get aubameyang to perform back to close to his best or not. If yes, then they can challenge for 4th. If not, still EL places

Conte would have had them challenging for top 4. Rodgers would have them in EL places. Arteta will have them between 8 and 12, below a couple less talented but better coached sides
 
DutchCruijff said:
Their signings have been poor and a waste of money.

But let's be real here, that Arsenal XI/squad, where does it finish in the league with a good coach?

They're not better than City, Liverpool, Chelsea or United.

I'd have West Ham and Spurs' XI over Arsenal's too. I'd say it's up for argument for Everton too.

They've got a 7-8th place quality XI/squad. That's where they belong.
Click to expand...
Most if not all of that squad now is Arteta's either through signing them or extending their deals.

If the squad's as poor as you're claiming that's another reason for him to go not to give him more time and resources.
 
DutchCruijff said:
Their signings have been poor and a waste of money.

But let's be real here, that Arsenal XI/squad, where does it finish in the league with a good coach?

They're not better than City, Liverpool, Chelsea or United.

I'd have West Ham and Spurs' XI over Arsenal's too. I'd say it's up for argument for Everton too.

They've got a 7-8th place quality XI/squad. That's where they belong.
Click to expand...


Well, tbh a few years ago, United finished 3rd with a not too dis similar squad, with Ole in charge.

We had Lingard, Perreira starting for us in games.

Leicester, Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal, City, Pool all had better squads than United.
 
DanClancy said:
Everton have a stronger first 11 then Arsenal when everyone is fit. I've seen many people rave about Partey before he joined them but he's ben very average everytime I've seen them.

They've got it all to do to make the top 6.
Click to expand...

This is exactly what Arteta wants you to believe. It’s definitely not true though. Arsenal have a better team and better depth.

We are about to find out how bad a poor coach can make some players look.
 
I've said it before but at least with Lampard and Ole both of them are legit legends at Chelsea and Utd. Both weren't good enough managers but both had a ton of goodwill and affection with the fans.

Lampard is their highest ever goalscorer and maybe their greatest ever player, Ole was a hugely beloved player who scored the most famous goal in our entire history. Both won multiple titles and cups and the CL etc.

Arteta was a journeyman midfielder who was at Arsenal during the start of their banter years, and won an FA cup or two maybe?

I don't understand the leeway the fans give him.
 
Djemba-Djemba said:
I've said it before but at least with Lampard and Ole both of them are legit legends at Chelsea and Utd. Both weren't good enough managers but both had a ton of goodwill and affection with the fans.

Lampard is their highest ever goalscorer and maybe their greatest ever player, Ole was a hugely beloved player who scored the most famous goal in our entire history. Both won multiple titles and cups and the CL etc.

Arteta was a journeyman midfielder who was at Arsenal during the start of their banter years, and won an FA cup or two maybe?

I don't understand the leeway the fans give him.
Click to expand...
It's because they consider him to be a student of Pep so he must be harbouring some secret tactical knowledge that will be unleashed when he gets his hands on the right players.
 
DutchCruijff said:
Their signings have been poor and a waste of money.
But let's be real here, that Arsenal XI/squad, where does it finish in the league with a good coach?
They're not better than City, Liverpool, Chelsea or United.
I'd have West Ham and Spurs' XI over Arsenal's too. I'd say it's up for argument for Everton too.
They've got a 7-8th place quality XI/squad. That's where they belong.
Click to expand...

The difference in points between 4th and 8th isn't that big. It was 6 points last season and 10 points the one before. I'd be surprised if a better coach can't get one more win and draw out of this Arsenal team.

Setting aside league positions: Arsenal had the 2nd worst attacking record in the top 10 last season. They currently have the 4th worst in the top 10, with Spurs getting close to overtaking them after their terrible start. There are also six clubs below the top 10 with better GF record than Arsenal.

I simply don't buy that Arsenal's squad is uniquely bad at scoring goals.
 
Blood Mage said:
It's because they consider him to be a student of Pep so he must be harbouring some secret tactical knowledge that will be unleashed when he gets his hands on the right players.
Click to expand...
Auba, Laca and Xhaka are the only players who start with a certain frequency that weren't signed under him. He's got the players he wants. He also is absolutely nothing like Guardiola tactically
 
Blood Mage said:
It's because they consider him to be a student of Pep so he must be harbouring some secret tactical knowledge that will be unleashed when he gets his hands on the right players.
Click to expand...

He doesn’t play like Pep. Recycle the ball from forward to full back, and then switches the ball from one flank to another flank by passing the ball across the back, after that the wide players will put cross in, and then repeat the same process.
 
Arteta got to arsenal at December 2019. He's bought Partey, Gabriel, Ben White, Tomiyasu, Odeegard, Ramsdale and Lokonga, and a bunch of others that are not above 10M that I don't think are worth mentioning.

That's regular investing to be honest, not little but definitely not enough to improve on a squad like the one he inherited. His best players are youngsters such as Saka, Smith Rowe and Tierney. I don't think Arteta is a top manager of course, but it's not like he's failing with a top team. Arsenal current's squad is clearly below City, Liverpool, Chelsea and ours and arguably below Everton, Spurs and Leicester. So they're on average where their squad should be placed around 8th.
 
Thing is, Arteta's target for this season is apparently European football, so a top 6 finish you would imagine (not counting that Conference League nonsense).

While he's in and around that, I don't think the board will have the appetite to make a change. Things might get hairy if we lose to Southampton or West Ham in the next couple of games for examole & things start drifting like last season to 6 or 7 without a win, then I think the fans will force a rethink, but like Ole, while he's still picking up results and keeping them roughly where the target it, they won't change it unfortunately.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.