Michael Oliver
- Thread starter stubie
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don't be fecking ridiculous. He had at least two embarassing dives before the booking, and a couple of others that looked very suspicious. Then when he finally got his booking he acted like a tantrumy child about it. I struggle to remember a United player making such a prat of themselves to be honest. Blaming the ref for it is ridiculous.I think the Bellerin one could have been a second yellow. I don't think it was blatant. Similar with the Welbeck dive...he could have booked him, but that would have just meant the game would have panned out exactly the same as it did anyway, except with Welbeck being booked, so it's hardly worth whining about. Di Maria was the only player diving around like Robert Pires, which is probably why he was the one Oliver lost patience with.
The Di Maria dive was worse than Welbeck's...which was actually arguably a foul...and yes that is how it works. He probably didn't want to book anyone for diving but got pissed off with Di Maria absolutely taking the piss. He ignored the first few from Di Maria, which were worse than anything Welbeck or Sanchez got away with.
I know there are tinted specs in here but for feck sake. He spent the whole game cheating, got called up on it, then for some reason thought it was ok to grab hold of the ref. I would be far more concerned with the fact one of our players is so much of a feckwit.
The contact on Di Maria warranted a foul then. Momentum can be thrown off very easily when you're running at pace, but I'd argue that losing your momentum doesn't necessarily mean it's a foul.
Which were when, then?
Excactly! If they had stayed on their feet, the chances of getting caught and getting a penalty would still be there. They were also in good positions as you say so they could have created a goal. Such good players and no faith in their skills. Fergie would have told them
Pretty much. You talk about game changing decisions. This plus the Bellerin foul means it could well have been United's 11 vs Arsenal's 10 for the last 20 minutes.
Like I said, I would have to see a replay to know if Ramsey fouled him. But just because there is a foul (if indeed there was) doesn't mean there wasn't a dive.
This. I know we're all frustrated but let's try and avoid excuses.
I don't think he did anything wrong today. I'm glad he booked Di Maria and Januzaj - they were both awful dives. Sanchez merely touched Di Maria's wrist and he went down. Januzaj went down about a second after Monreal touched his arm. United players or not, it's disgusting and embarassing to see.
Honestly thought he did fine. Only questionable thing about the night was how Fellaini escaped a yellow for so long.
Honestly thought he did fine. Only questionable thing about the night was how Fellaini escaped a yellow for so long.
Agree with this too.
Wasn't it Oliver who took no action when Joe Hart basically headbutted him?
Bellerin definitely warranted a second yellow. That alone would have been enough to change the entire flow of the game.
I dont understand how people can say he had a good game:
He got about 5 or 6 big calls wrong or dealt with differently for both teams;
- Januzaj booking had direct comparison with Welbeck, one booked not the other.
- Think it was Bellerin should have seen second yellow clear wrong decision as was the wrong decision not to give Rojo a second you could say two wrongs make a right but we are talking about him having a good game he got both wrong
- Di Maria didnt deserve a yellow, Sanchez was a clearer out and out dive in direct comparison, one given as a free and one given the other way with a booking. In this case I think both decisions were wrong but even if you think Di Maria's should have been, the Sanchez thing makes it an inconsistent decision
- The foul and throwing the ball away by the rules is a second yellow as by the rules is what I think Di Maria did. I got a good look at it on replay and he basically pulls his shirt at the back (after the ref gives the card and tries to ignore him) and the shirt pulls out in a small area where he pulled it and he releases. It doesnt pull back the ref, I'm suprised he even noticed. Given how often players will grab a ref by the arm or shoulder to get his attention I think a sending off was harsh, but under the rules of the game he was entitled to do so. Doesnt not make it a shit call, the ref in question has previous ignoring something far worse. Di Maria didnt grab his shirt heavily and pull him off balance like some seem to be making out. A normal ref would have done as he did to let away the throwing away of the ball, and in the same balance of not being overly harsh probably would have had sense to give Di Maria a serious warning.
He got about 5 or 6 big calls wrong or dealt with differently for both teams;
- Januzaj booking had direct comparison with Welbeck, one booked not the other.
- Think it was Bellerin should have seen second yellow clear wrong decision as was the wrong decision not to give Rojo a second you could say two wrongs make a right but we are talking about him having a good game he got both wrong
- Di Maria didnt deserve a yellow, Sanchez was a clearer out and out dive in direct comparison, one given as a free and one given the other way with a booking. In this case I think both decisions were wrong but even if you think Di Maria's should have been, the Sanchez thing makes it an inconsistent decision
- The foul and throwing the ball away by the rules is a second yellow as by the rules is what I think Di Maria did. I got a good look at it on replay and he basically pulls his shirt at the back (after the ref gives the card and tries to ignore him) and the shirt pulls out in a small area where he pulled it and he releases. It doesnt pull back the ref, I'm suprised he even noticed. Given how often players will grab a ref by the arm or shoulder to get his attention I think a sending off was harsh, but under the rules of the game he was entitled to do so. Doesnt not make it a shit call, the ref in question has previous ignoring something far worse. Di Maria didnt grab his shirt heavily and pull him off balance like some seem to be making out. A normal ref would have done as he did to let away the throwing away of the ball, and in the same balance of not being overly harsh probably would have had sense to give Di Maria a serious warning.
No, it isn't. The rules state that if it's a dive, it's a yellow card. There's no margin for letting players off for a bit and then deciding to punish them later on, and Oliver's big feck up was letting too much go until the very end, and that applied to both sides. Horrible refereeing performance by all accounts, and if that qualifies as a good performance then we're in trouble.
Nothing to do with rose tinted specs, he was just awful from both sides, Rojo could easily get a red card, horrible tackle, fellaini got yelloe too late, but bellerin should get a 2nd yellow and if di maria gets a yellow for simulation, sanchez should get the same, he measure with 2 different standards, awful ref and hope he wont get a big match anywhere soon.
Rojo should also get yellow for that Welbeck pull.
Rojo should also get yellow for that Welbeck pull.
Bellerin should have been sent off. That was the biggest bottle job I've seen in a while by a referee - by a facking stretch.
Sanchez should have been booked for touching the ref as well and I've no issue with ADM being sent off for what he did - as long as there is consistency.
By the way - I will never watch a game with Danny Murphy commentating again. Could barely disguise his glee at Utd losing. Well he can fack off back to his facking hobbit hole the bankrupt goggle eyed cant. Go fack yeself yeh facking prick. /rant
Sanchez should have been booked for touching the ref as well and I've no issue with ADM being sent off for what he did - as long as there is consistency.
By the way - I will never watch a game with Danny Murphy commentating again. Could barely disguise his glee at Utd losing. Well he can fack off back to his facking hobbit hole the bankrupt goggle eyed cant. Go fack yeself yeh facking prick. /rant
Was a mistake then, and he may well have been advised to issue cards by the FA after that match, but doesn't mean he shouldn't take proper action like he did tonight. ADM was at fault. You just got a yellow for simulation. Yelling at the ref and then physically touching /pushing him is just asking for trouble. These players make a lot of money but does not mean they have a lot of intelligence.
You're not conning the ref by diving if you were fouled...
Sorry should have said Sanchez should have been booked for his dive - am just facking furious atm.....
If you're good enough then there is very little that a referee can do to influence the game. We are simply just not good enough, we was already losing when Oliver sent of Di Maria.
Yes. Yes you are. It's possible to be fouled and dive.
If that level of inconsistency (in both decision making and the punishment for them) is the standard we've reached for a decent game by a referee, it is no wonder the referees are quite literally untouchable. The guy couldn't decide what was a bookable offence for more than 5 minutes.
Did he affect the game in Arsenal's favour as much as some are making out? Hard to say as any decision he didn't give that he should have would obviously make it a completely different game. That doesn't change the fact he, was once again, utter shit.
Diving, or simulation to give it its official title, is a deliberate attempt to deceive the referee into making a decision that shouldn't be made. The only way simulation and a foul can occur in the same instance is when a player that has been fouled attempts to make the foul seem far worse than it was in order to get the opponent booked or sent off, which isn't what happened here. There was no feigning of injury whatsoever.
Sorry but I'm not getting into a pedanthon with you. It was a clear dive.
Bellerin - red card. QED
I have never seen a ref give a player a free kick and then card him for diving. The ref can do it but they don't.
If the ref had given him Di Maria the foul then it wouldn't have got to his head. It wasn't the first time that Di Maria was fouled and not given anything. He was kicked down by Monreal right outside the box earlier this game and nothing was given. He probably also felt he was kicked by Sanchez near the corner flag and got nothing. Not calling fouls when you're consistently fouled gets to you and I understand Di Maria's reaction. We've players come up to the ref multiple times. He went an "unorthodox" way to get the refs attention which was stupid.
I'd agree, but that means it wasn't a foul.
The thing about pointing out the Sanchez and Welbeck incidents is that I don't think Di Maria was booked just for this dive. If it was his only one, he'd probably have got away with it, but he was diving repeatedly throughout the match. It was his third or fourth time of going to ground looking for a freekick. Imo that's what got him booked.
Then he should book him for the first one.
At this rate we'll end up with a different rulebook for the first 10-15 minutes like the commentators seem to want when they complain yellow cards are given out too early.
Di Maria was booked for constant fannying about. There was one occasion where Monreal professional fouled him and the officials totally missed it but the other times he was arsing about.
Bellerin definitely should have been sent off but Ashley Young did his 'I'm getting tasered' flop and then tried to influence the ref to send him off.
Sanchez though, he dives with the best of them. Welbeck flopped as well.
Bellerin definitely should have been sent off but Ashley Young did his 'I'm getting tasered' flop and then tried to influence the ref to send him off.
Sanchez though, he dives with the best of them. Welbeck flopped as well.
I don't disagree but it's pure speculation that he's been advised to issue cards. Seems like more terrible inconsistent reffing, Sterling did worse to Howard Webb a year or 2 back and got away with it.
Maybe there has been inconsistency, but it STILL does not excuse ADM for giving cause for further action after a yellow for simulation. Our team is struggling mightily with all 11 on the pitch...
I'm not excusing him, what he did was idiotic but no doubt in my mind ref's will give out yellows for diving to foreign players much more than the above examples I gave in Hart/Sterling.
Also known as being triped.
Van Gaal as usual put no pressure on him in game or post match. No highlighting of crucial incidents or anything.
This way on balance we will always get More bad decisions.
This way on balance we will always get More bad decisions.
He was tripped, Young I assume you mean, but he did his daft little mid air fit and then pressured the ref after.
We lost down to our own mistakes but it was an inconsistent performance from the referee.
Agree with that.
After the slap on the wrist he got after Yeovil, why would he? It's not like he's Mourinho.
In fairness the one time LvG did open his mouth about a referee (and said nothing worse than other managers say every week), the FA threw the book at him to make some sort of statement. I don't blame him for keeping quiet.