Michael Oliver

Dobba said:
After the slap on the wrist he got after Yeovil, why would he? It's not like he's Mourinho.
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Dunno what the feck he was on about at Yeovil frankly. Got way better chances this season and he never tore into referees or even reacted mid game with gestures

For example he was defending Clattenberg after Leicester.

Mourinho and SAF would have started a riot in such situations.
 
Count Orduck said:
The thing about pointing out the Sanchez and Welbeck incidents is that I don't think Di Maria was booked just for this dive. If it was his only one, he'd probably have got away with it, but he was diving repeatedly throughout the match. It was his third or fourth time of going to ground looking for a freekick.
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As I said up thread, diving is yellow card whenever it happens. Refs shouldn't be letting it go for 80 minutes before doing something about it.

The reason Oliver had such a terrible game is because he let far too much go until the very end.

On top of the diving, he let a few players get away with repeated fouls without further punishment, or left the punishment until it was far too late, and bottled second yellows for Bellerin, Ramsey and Rojo (and probably some others by the time he'd let all the other fouls go), which is why the end of the match was such a farce. Had he booked Welbeck/Sanchez/Di Maria for diving when they first did it, we wouldn't be having this discussion because none of them would have been reacting to the card when tempers were running high and the match was very tense, and other players would have been wary of trying it on for the remainder of the game.

Likewise, had he booked Fellaini after his first 3 fouls, rather than waiting for him to commit a few more before doing anything about it, and flashed a yellow card to a couple of other players when they'd done the same, there wouldn't have been so many daft tackles flying around towards the end of the match. Also, had he not set a precedent for cynical fouls being met with yellow cards, there wouldn't have been the uproar about him not sending Bellerin off, which again, wouldn't have raised the intensity of the match. Rojo probably should have seen red too by the end of the game, but again, this was all caused by Oliver losing control of the game.

On top of that there were a couple of occasions where he blatantly didn't enforce the rules. Monreal deliberately handballed it to stop a decent attacking move but wasn't punished (he was one who should have already been on a yellow), and Ramsey got booked for hauling Young down, but was let off for kicking the ball away.

By all accounts, it was a terrible refereeing performance, riddled with inconsistent officiating, apparent ignorance for the laws of the game, and a general lack of control over the match. The fact that so many saw no problem with it, and in fact thought it was a good performance is quite worrying. I don't think it would have made a jot of difference to the final score given that United were woeful in the second half, but that doesn't mean that Michael Oliver had a good game as referee.
 
Surprised there's any debate about Di Maria's dive. The smidgen of contact does not equal a foul.
 
I've never hated on a referee so much, he was so anti UTD that he might as well have put a Arsenal shirt on!

Having said that we were shit and probably would have lost any how!
 
He didn't have a bad game. Most of the big decisions largely correct. But those saying he had a great game are off their rocker.
 
Count Orduck said:
In fairness the one time LvG did open his mouth about a referee (and said nothing worse than other managers say every week), the FA threw the book at him to make some sort of statement. I don't blame him for keeping quiet.
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He opened his mouth one one occasion where he did not even have much merit and even that was soft.

And who is scared of FA throwing book or fining ? As i said above he was defending Twattenberg after Leicester and many more decisions he has dodged questions or never brought up.

You need to have clout and influence over such things even more so in England. He had clout when he arrived but never used it to pressure. Now even that is down and he's not calling spade a spade.

How about some gestures to get crowd up during game or put pressure on referee ? Charging at 4th official etc..
 
FromTheBench said:
Dunno what the feck he was on about at Yeovil franly. Got way better chances this season and he never tore into referees or even reacted mid game with gestures

For example he was defending Clattenberg after Leicester.

Mourinho and SAF would have started a riot in such situations.
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Yeovil :lol: :lol: I was so upset at the time but it's fecking funny now … spoiled my whole weekend on a Friday night!
 
Giving out yellows for dives isn't exactly the norm these days. Most dives get ignored and play continues.
 
Alex99 said:
As I said up thread, diving is yellow card whenever it happens. Refs shouldn't be letting it go for 80 minutes before doing something about it.

The reason Oliver had such a terrible game is because he let far too much go until the very end.

On top of the diving, he let a few players get away with repeated fouls without further punishment, or left the punishment until it was far too late, and bottled second yellows for Bellerin, Ramsey and Rojo (and probably some others by the time he'd let all the other fouls go), which is why the end of the match was such a farce. Had he booked Welbeck/Sanchez/Di Maria for diving when they first did it, we wouldn't be having this discussion because none of them would have been reacting to the card when tempers were running high and the match was very tense, and other players would have been wary of trying it on for the remainder of the game.

Likewise, had he booked Fellaini after his first 3 fouls, rather than waiting for him to commit a few more before doing anything about it, and flashed a yellow card to a couple of other players when they'd done the same, there wouldn't have been so many daft tackles flying around towards the end of the match. Also, had he not set a precedent for cynical fouls being met with yellow cards, there wouldn't have been the uproar about him not sending Bellerin off, which again, wouldn't have raised the intensity of the match. Rojo probably should have seen red too by the end of the game, but again, this was all caused by Oliver losing control of the game.

On top of that there were a couple of occasions where he blatantly didn't enforce the rules. Monreal deliberately handballed it to stop a decent attacking move but wasn't punished (he was one who should have already been on a yellow), and Ramsey got booked for hauling Young down, but was let off for kicking the ball away.

By all accounts, it was a terrible refereeing performance, riddled with inconsistent officiating, apparent ignorance for the laws of the game, and a general lack of control over the match. The fact that so many saw no problem with it, and in fact thought it was a good performance is quite worrying. I don't think it would have made a jot of difference to the final score given that United were woeful in the second half, but that doesn't mean that Michael Oliver had a good game as referee.
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This is spot on.
 
Re. my earlier point most animated i have seen LVG on bench this season was when he was charging at the 4th referee in that pre season friendly vs Roma. :lol:

Still remember comments from then about how he wanted to win everything etc.. Quite Ironic since then.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Yeah, he should have been off. Annoying. Got the rest of the decisions right though.
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It really annoyed me as it was so blatant to everyone in the ground that it was a clear second bookable offence... it's not really up for debate. Oliver just completely bottled it, for god knows what reason.

He got everything else more or less right (though he was horribly inconsistent at times) - and Oliver certainly didn't cost us the game (the fact that we started the second half like 11 complete strangers at blindfolded orgy saw to that)... but for people to say he had a "good game" and "got all the big decisions right" is either a) wrong or b) being contrary for the sake of it. He got one major decision wrong - that is not a good game.
 
I love the Eredivisie in this aspect, he cohld get hammered verbally tonight and it wouldnt be a big deal.

Do some of you think youre less rose tinted if you say he had a good game? He wasnt pro United/Arsenal he was just terrible, so many decisions wrong. Hope this gets sort out, you have to perform to a certain standard imo.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
It really annoyed me as it was so blatant to everyone in the ground that it was a clear second bookable offence... it's not really up for debate. Oliver just completely bottled it, for god knows what reason.

He got everything else more or less right (though he was horribly inconsistent at times) - and Oliver certainly didn't cost us the game (the fact that we started the second half like a 11 complete strangers at blindfolded orgy saw to that)... but for people to say he had a "good game" and "got all the big decisions right" is either a) wrong or b) being contrary for the sake of it.
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Nah, 11 blindfolded strangers at an orgy at least will score. Though admittedly they're probably just as open at the back.
 
No complaints for me. Sorry. Other then a possible second yellow for an ashley young dive. He let Fellaini get away with murder for so long too
 
No problem with the AdM sending off, you can't do that to officials end off. The problem i have is that this is the same guy who bottled it when Joe Hart went head to head with him. No consistency these days.
 
I thought the yellow was harsh, players are always going to ground at the first sign of contact no matter how minuscule. It was nothing like Januzaj's. What doesn't help Di Maria is that he looks for it too much and the awful feigning of injury.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
It really annoyed me as it was so blatant to everyone in the ground that it was a clear second bookable offence... it's not really up for debate. Oliver just completely bottled it, for god knows what reason.

He got everything else more or less right (though he was horribly inconsistent at times) - and Oliver certainly didn't cost us the game (the fact that we started the second half like 11 complete strangers at blindfolded orgy saw to that)... but for people to say he had a "good game" and "got all the big decisions right" is either a) wrong or b) being contrary for the sake of it. He got one major decision wrong - that is not a good game.
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I think the Bellerin call was probably wrong, but it was a judgment call by him. I think he had a good game because twice he made big calls for dives and wasn't conned by them. I'd be very happy if Utd opponents trying the same shit were booked, so I'm not going to switch my opinion and say I'm annoyed cos it's our players.
 
Problem wasn't blatant bad decisions, but him leaning towards Arsenal almost wherever he could in a not sure situation. Sanchez vs Di Maria, 2nd yellow for Bellerin, Di Maria incident etc.. All could have been turned around other way too along with other decisions and yellows he was issuing.

When januzaj came on Monreal took him from behind and not got near ball but he didn't give a foul. Commentators bizarrely laughed it off.
 
Sammyjunn said:
I love the Eredivisie in this aspect, he cohld get hammered verbally tonight and it wouldnt be a big deal.

Do some of you think youre less rose tinted if you say he had a good game? He wasnt pro United/Arsenal he was just terrible, so many decisions wrong. Hope this gets sort out, you have to perform to a certain standard imo.
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I'm really mystified by people who think he had a good game. He lost control of the game almost completely, and he cocked up majorly towards the end as a result. It was all sparked, in my opinion, when he didn't send Bellerin off, but that spark wouldn't have ignited anything had he got a grip of the game much earlier in the match when he was presented with the opportunity to do so. Because he let the game get away from him, we've ended up in a situation where you'd have decent arguments for about 5 or 6 players receiving red cards, which is obviously nothing short of farcical.
 
Rooney in Dublin said:
I think the Bellerin call was probably wrong, but it was a judgment call by him. I think he had a good game because twice he made big calls for dives and wasn't conned by them. I'd be very happy if Utd opponents trying the same shit were booked, so I'm not going to switch my opinion and say I'm annoyed cos it's our players.
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It wasn't a judgement call, it's a blantant booking. Young had gone past him, and was moving into loads of space - in a threatening area on the field, and Bellerin was late into the tackle and cleanly took him out. It's especially ludicrous when you look at the fouls that people got booked for prior to it, and continued to get booked for after it.

You can say he did well with both dives - but when you're getting a very easy decision, like the above one wrong, then you can't be having "a good game" ... that would be like saying Valencia had a good game if the only thing he did wrong tonight was that back-pass.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
It wasn't a judgement call, it's a blantant booking. Young had gone past him, and was moving into loads of space - in a threatening area on the field, and Bellerin was late into the tackle and cleanly took him out. It's especially ludicrous when you look at the fouls that people got booked for prior to it, and continued to get booked for after it.

You can say he did well with both dives - but when you're getting a very easy decision, like the above one wrong, then you can't be having "a good game" ... that would be like saying Valencia had a good game if the only thing he did wrong tonight was that back-pass.
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I don't agree for a second that it was a blatant yellow and not a judgment call (even though I, myself, would have booked Bellerin), so I guess we'll just have to disagree on this one.

I'd be surprised if neutrals (who don't have extreme views on refereeing to start with) didn't think he had a good game overall.
 
Rooney in Dublin said:
I don't agree for a second that it was a blatant yellow and not a judgment call (even though I, myself, would have booked Bellerin), so I guess we'll just have to disagree on this one.

I'd be surprised if neutrals (who don't have extreme views on refereeing to start with) didn't think he had a good game overall.
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Objectively, he had a terrible game and didn't really favour either side. I'm shocked that people think that this was a good refereeing performance, because it was genuinely one of the worst I've seen in quite a while.
 
Strange that he was quick to send off Smalling in the first half vs City for a poor challenge but only his first foul after booking him from preventing the keeper from taking a goal kick and yet showed patience with Bellerin today
 
Alex99 said:
As I said up thread, diving is yellow card whenever it happens. Refs shouldn't be letting it go for 80 minutes before doing something about it.

The reason Oliver had such a terrible game is because he let far too much go until the very end.

On top of the diving, he let a few players get away with repeated fouls without further punishment, or left the punishment until it was far too late, and bottled second yellows for Bellerin, Ramsey and Rojo (and probably some others by the time he'd let all the other fouls go), which is why the end of the match was such a farce. Had he booked Welbeck/Sanchez/Di Maria for diving when they first did it, we wouldn't be having this discussion because none of them would have been reacting to the card when tempers were running high and the match was very tense, and other players would have been wary of trying it on for the remainder of the game.

Likewise, had he booked Fellaini after his first 3 fouls, rather than waiting for him to commit a few more before doing anything about it, and flashed a yellow card to a couple of other players when they'd done the same, there wouldn't have been so many daft tackles flying around towards the end of the match. Also, had he not set a precedent for cynical fouls being met with yellow cards, there wouldn't have been the uproar about him not sending Bellerin off, which again, wouldn't have raised the intensity of the match. Rojo probably should have seen red too by the end of the game, but again, this was all caused by Oliver losing control of the game.

On top of that there were a couple of occasions where he blatantly didn't enforce the rules. Monreal deliberately handballed it to stop a decent attacking move but wasn't punished (he was one who should have already been on a yellow), and Ramsey got booked for hauling Young down, but was let off for kicking the ball away.

By all accounts, it was a terrible refereeing performance, riddled with inconsistent officiating, apparent ignorance for the laws of the game, and a general lack of control over the match. The fact that so many saw no problem with it, and in fact thought it was a good performance is quite worrying. I don't think it would have made a jot of difference to the final score given that United were woeful in the second half, but that doesn't mean that Michael Oliver had a good game as referee.
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This. He lost control of the match. Like how there are some schoolteachers who could establish their authority by their presence and bearing and consistency, whereas others have to martinets because they do not command respect. It's a minor point, but his face when he turned around after being tugged was symptomatic of the offended petty officiousness that characterised his match.
 
I'm glad he had the balls to make the calls on the two dives and Di Maria grabbing him. All three good calls.
Not sending off Bellerin and failing to book Welbeck were terrible decisions.

Average performance.

Van Gaal, Di Maria, Valencia and Januzaj were all worse performers this evening that Michael Oliver tonight.
 
Did well I thought, guess some are just trying to find other excuses for the loss.
 
Matty7 said:
Did well I thought, guess some are just trying to find other excuses for the loss.
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What about people like me who think it was one of the worst refereeing performances for quite a while, but that it didn't really favour either team or have much of an effect on the result?
 
Alex99 said:
What about people like me who think it was one of the worst refereeing performances for quite a while, but that it didn't really favour either team or have much of an effect on the result?
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Cant see myself how it was that bad, Di Maria went and rightly so. Fellaini could of gone too, but he gave him the benefit of the doubt, just like he gave Arsenals Bellerin the benefit of the doubt. Got Januzaj's dive spot on as well (Okay he could of booked Welbeck then for diving, but im pretty sure he gave Di Maria a couple of chances too as he did dive more than once). Other than that cant see what else he could of done? He let the game flow as much as he could too.
 
Matty7 said:
Cant see myself how it was that bad, Di Maria went and rightly so. Fellaini could of gone too, but he gave him the benefit of the doubt, just like he gave Arsenals Bellerin the benefit of the doubt. Got Januzaj's dive spot on as well (Okay he could of booked Welbeck then for diving, but im pretty sure he gave Di Maria a couple of chances too as he did dive more than once). Other than that cant see what else he could of done? He let the game flow as much as he could too.
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Could have booked Sanchez for diving?
 
Gio said:
Surprised there's any debate about Di Maria's dive. The smidgen of contact does not equal a foul.
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Yup. Its a contact sport, touching someone's arm is not a foul, you have to actually impede the player.
 
I think Bellerin should have been sent off but Rojo should ave been booked first half (similar tackle to Bellerin's booking) and I think they should have had a penalty for the pull on Welbeck (need to see the replay)
 
For Arsenal player: You simply do not send off a player in a big game like this as it will ruin the game. Think of the neutrals.

For Man United player: You have to send off the player regardless of the game magnitude, rules are rules.

Great referee there. But wont mind him not refereeing another game for his life though.
 
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