Dont get how He let hart headbutt him
While sending of di maria for pulling his shirt, not very impartial is he
While sending of di maria for pulling his shirt, not very impartial is he
Michael Oliver
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He should have dealt with the diving when Welbeck dived, or when Sanchez first dived, or when Di Maria first dived, not when Di Maria took his 3rd or 4th tumble in the 80th minute.
He let a fair few players get away with repeated fouls, meaning that a number of them should have been on thin ice, and thus on their best behaviour, when the game got heated as United chased an equaliser. As it was, they were able to continue putting in niggly fouls and cynical tackles, and still they were escaping punishment.
He set a precedent for awarding yellow cards for cynical tackles, and rightly so, but, as with the diving, he was inconsistent with this and let Bellerin off a blatant second yellow. This then created a situation where the intensity of the match was high, tempers were now flaring, and he had zero control of the match because there were about 5 or 6 players on the pitch that should have been on yellows but weren't.
Tempers were too flared on both sides for sudden card waving to make a difference, but he clearly realised the game had got beyond him and made a desperate attempt to sort it out. Di Maria's dive presented the perfect opportunity for a card, and you could see in his eyes as soon as he felt his shirt tugged that he was going to send him off as a last ditch effort to gain some control of the match.
It didn't work though because we ended up with a situation where Rojo probably should have walked for two bookable offences, the first of which he got away with, Fellaini probably could have gone for just tripping people up all game, Monreal's handball should have been his second yellow, but he somehow avoided a booking at all, Ramsey should have gone when he kicked the ball away after fouling Young, and obviously Bellerin should have walked. It wasn't a particularly dirty match, but because he let it get out of hand, we ended up with at least 5 players that probably should have been sent off on top of the one that did get sent off. If he had control of the game and had dealt with the situations appropriately earlier in the game, Di Maria wouldn't have been reacting to a booking for diving with such anger, Rojo wouldn't have been charging people down like a madman, Fellaini would have had to calm himself down a lot earlier, Monreal probably wouldn't have been lowering his arm to stop the ball, and Ramsey wouldn't have been kicking the ball away petulantly.
What kind of nonsense logic is this? Should he just repeat the same mistake and not follow the rules because he did it once? That would make refereeing really fun if it cought on...
Di Maria got nobdy but himself to blame for being such a pillock.
Got the vast majority of the calls right. I still think he is a spineless twit like Atkinson, but who manages to get his calls correct while having still having no control of a match.
But isnt that the point? He let things slide on both side so the game could be a classic heated match between two rivals? The history of the fixture had many moments where the game would get heated and players start to get aggressive and high tempered. But thats the good thing about this fixture. Yes im sure Oliver could of been more card happy and stopped it, but then people would be saying the opposite, how he killed the game, how he should of let it slide a bit in a contest between these two etc. I think he did very well in the circumstances and let the game become a heated clash which this fixture is well known for.
Given the circumstances both teams find themselves in, a heated clash, resembling the past, is definitely not what either teams, or supporters, would have wanted. Once the players on either side were flustered, we seemed to have lost any control we had, and were completely useless for the last 30-35 minutes of the game. A better (more strict approach) performance from Oliver would have been more favourable for us.
I'm just surprised no ones mentioned the time he was head butted by Joe Hart.
Oh it has, a couple of pages back.
As I mentioned clearly, a headbutt, and tugging of his shirt are 2 very different things
Link?
Considering that refs can't give anything unless they see it, it is at least a step in the right direction that they are breeding them with eyes in the back of their feckin heads.
So one-sided in his bookings.
So one-sided in his bookings.
Don't see how Smallings red card offences against City were any different from Bellerins, today. Inconsistent, incompetent t**t.
Of course you could see it in his eyes. He was taken aback and livid that a player put his hands on him like that... so was I, tbh. What in the feck are you doing Di Maria?
You can fault the ref for a few things, but Di Maria walking for that is perfectly fine, he was well out of order.
Outside of not sendig Bellerin off(which is obviously a big thing) I thought he was quite good. The Januzaj incident I was furious he didn't give a pen. After the replay though I had to begrudgingly say he got it right. I could probably nitpick every decision but for the most part he was spot on, sans the previously mentioned Bellerin incident.
Angel had just committed an offense and been booked, it was the absolute wrong time to try to chase the referee and pull on his shirt. Some other time he might have let it go, but both cards were well earned.
Headbutt is totally fine.
I don't know why you're pointing out he lost control of the game Alex, even though the game was high intensity and with a few fouls here and there, he was managing it fine. He'd decided to let it flow, and did so very well (he used the advantage rule overall very well) and communicated pretty clearly to the players about fouls and the fact they were getting close to a yellow, like Fellaini typically. I also don't know why people are going on about the Bellerin challenge as a 'blatant yellow', I've said before I thought it warranted one, but it's no crime against humanity he didn't give a yellow. Overall, he set the tone for a high intensity game where he intervened when he needed to and made most of the correct big calls.
Headbutt is totally fine.
It's these things that piss everybody off! The lack of consistency!
Bellerin should have had a 2nd yellow.
I think Di Maria's first booking was harsh. It was very similar to Welbeck's 'penalty shout'. Felt a little pull so took the fall. To be honest, I'm more inclined to believe the skinny, slight Di Maria is more likely to go down form that than big strong Welbeck is from a hand on the shoulder, but both were soft and both were playing for it. The result from the referee on both calls was inconsistent.
Di Maria's 2nd yellow was the right decision. So was Januzaj's booking, for a truly terrible dive.
Fellaini should have accumulated enough yellow cards to get sent off twice.
I think Di Maria's first booking was harsh. It was very similar to Welbeck's 'penalty shout'. Felt a little pull so took the fall. To be honest, I'm more inclined to believe the skinny, slight Di Maria is more likely to go down form that than big strong Welbeck is from a hand on the shoulder, but both were soft and both were playing for it. The result from the referee on both calls was inconsistent.
Di Maria's 2nd yellow was the right decision. So was Januzaj's booking, for a truly terrible dive.
Fellaini should have accumulated enough yellow cards to get sent off twice.
I understand people beeing angre at the lack of consistency(Hart, Di Maria) but thats no reason to say Di Maria shouldent be sent off.
He did wrong with Hart and did it right now with Angel. He cant tutch the ref like that, end off.
The problem for me is that i dont think it was yellow for diving. Yes he fell easy, but was held back and i can to a degree understand why players fall easily in situations like that. The alternative is going on with worse controll and no free kick.
He did wrong with Hart and did it right now with Angel. He cant tutch the ref like that, end off.
The problem for me is that i dont think it was yellow for diving. Yes he fell easy, but was held back and i can to a degree understand why players fall easily in situations like that. The alternative is going on with worse controll and no free kick.
Overnight, I now think we were slightly 'reffed against' (Bellerin) but in some ways (Rooney seems in the face of every ref nowadays) we do ask for this (the diving), <--- ADM last night, esp. Divey Forrin playing for Utd, it's not Joe Hart England's Number One is it? Oliver wasn't great but he wasn't terrible either, by current standards.
And not the reason we lost.
And not the reason we lost.
Spot on imo, di Maria 2nd yellow was deserved but it wasnt a yellow in the first olace. Oliver is too inconsistent in his refereeing, you cant have 2 completely different outcomes in similar situations. Sanchez his free kick was literally the same, little contact and he fell, if he punishes pulling/grabbing on one side, he should do the same on the other. Plus Bellerin, Rojo, Fellaini incidents, it was a terrible performance. Got it all wrong.
This, and the media won't pick it up either.
Because it's a stupid point.
Rojo and Fellaini probably should have been off as well so he was fine on balance.
Yeah, while we've got Fellaini playing for us as well... (how does he get away with it?)
Agree with this. If anything this would make it more likely that he wouldn't make this mistake again as referees review their games to learn and improve. If referees were not allowed to change their behaviour from game to game they would never improve.
Crazy that some people think refs should commit themselves to bad decisions in the name of consistency. Keeping a similar level in duration of a single game is something else.
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I think the main issue here is that that whole situation wouldn't have raised if he'd not held off on making decisions. A dive is a yellow. So why did Di Maria dive twice before seeing a yellow for something that wasn't actually a dive? That's the real issue with consistency here.
When a player dives, book them. 1st minute or 90th, doesn't matter. Don't wait for them to do it time and time again before feeling you have to book them for an issue that doesn't need one! It's plain stupid and why I don't understand how people can say Oliver had a good game.
When a player dives, book them. 1st minute or 90th, doesn't matter. Don't wait for them to do it time and time again before feeling you have to book them for an issue that doesn't need one! It's plain stupid and why I don't understand how people can say Oliver had a good game.
Outside the box so no penalty
The Hart headbutt ... How many times will it get mentioned. Yes Oliver made a mistake then, it doesn't mean he should have let ADM get away with what he did. You don't correct a previous mistake by doing another one. What was he supposed to do ?
I think Oliver did okay. Its wrong to blame the ref, we just didnt come out in the second half (which was especially sad, as I thought we were in control and playing well). We need to look at ourselves rather than look for excuses.
I dont blame Di Maria either, we was MUCH better than his last two poor showings. Frustrating that his confidence will have taken another knock
I dont blame Di Maria either, we was MUCH better than his last two poor showings. Frustrating that his confidence will have taken another knock
Here's the thing for me he didn't send their lad off. Now people can speculate all they like. The ref could have asked Rooney to speak to Di Maria in that instance - warning him what's at stake and that any more of that and you are off.
That is not to say Di Maria wasn't silly but so was their lad - only their lads foul didn't make the ref look like a burke like he did when he failed at his job not sending Hart off. The ref ended up being the talking point and we might well have still lost! But in that moment he had the chance to put the occasion before his ego and he blew it.
The ref showed no sign he knew how big the game was. It's unfair to not book their lad just to be kind - allowing them to make a sub because they knew he should have been sent off. He ruined the game by not showing our players the same respect.
I would have respected him more if he had have been fair to both sides but he weren't. He got some decisions correct but I think he acted like Di Maria had shagged his wife...
Except they're entirely different circumstances!
Giving a yellow card for a foul is a matter of interpretation. Not every foul is a yellow card. That one might well have been, but Oliver obviously decided it wasn't quite there and would give him one more chance. You often see referees be a touch more lenient when it comes to a second yellow card for a foul like that. They're given scope by the rules to apply their own judgement as to whether it warrants a card.
But laying hands on the referee has no room for interpretation or leniency. It's not something you make a judgement call on and ask him to calm down. If a player touches the referee, he goes in the book. It's very, very simple. Di Maria grabbed him and got booked. Oliver had no choice but to send him off. All this absolute bollocks that he should have "taken the size of the game into account" and "given him a warning or spoken to the captain" is just that - absolute bollocks. There is no one to blame in this incident except Di Maria himself. Oliver did exactly as he should have done.
Not that I expect the whiners in this thread to understand that. They've already made their mind up: that we were robbed by a crooked referee out of his depth. We were wronged, oh the injustice of it all! Get a grip. You sound like Liverpool fans with all the persecution complex wailing.
If Oliver had done all of that, we would have been happy and complimented his diplomacy but at the end of the day, he made the right decision.
Not really. People whine about the Hart incident because he didn't do what he should have done. United fans might have complimented him if he'd let Di Maria off, yes, but everyone else would know he'd not done his job and bottled it. Again.
Thought Oliver's performance was spot-on to be honest. We'd clearly be commending him if we were Arsenal supporters. Difficult sometimes to view a ref's performance objectively but I thought he had everything right. Embarrassing dives from Januzaj and Di Maria, and the latter deserved to go following his aggression towards the ref. About time a ref took less bollo**s from players, well done Michael Oliver.
That's who I meant by "we", the other fans or neutrals, their views would have been different obviously.
He was grand, got most of his decisions right. Annoyed me one or two times but I imagine that was more as a result of me being riled up by how the game was going for us. Di Maria decision was spot on, though the people talking about the Hart incident have a valid point. Bellerin could possibly have seen a second yellow, there was definitely a case for it.
Had anyone actually said this?
You tried to accuse me of this same shit last night but then unsurprisingly disappeared when the truth was pointed out to you.
I'll ask this again, because nobody has answered it yet: why can't a person criticise a referee without being accused of blaming him for the result?
Plenty of people think Oliver made mistakes last night. I'm definitely amongst them, but that doesn't make them whiners and doesn't automatically mean they blame him for the result.
People also criticise ref mistakes when we win - where are your strange rants then?