To be honest, i think he was overrated.
All he really invented was Jesus Juice.
All he really invented was Jesus Juice.
Music Michael Jackson is Dead (All general comment)
- Thread starter Alex
- Start date
How about this...
May 11 – Home Alone star Macaulay Culkin provides one of the highlights of the trial, rejecting any suggestion he was molested by Jackson.
May 24 – Comedian Jay Leno, another celebrity witness called by the defence, tells the jury he was suspicious of the singer's accuser when they spoke on the phone. But in a setback for the defence he said the family of Gavin Arvizo had never asked him for money.
May 25 – Rush Hour star Chris Tucker, the last of 50 defence witnesses, tells the court he found Gavin Arvizo to be unusually sophisticated and cunning for his age and said he grew suspicious of the Arvizo family when they went to the set of a film he was shooting in Las Vegas and refused to leave.
I don't know if anyone would command a defence of '50 defence witnesses' - of lofty reputations - if they were guilty. Bashir, in the edits of the documentary, said Michael Jackson was an 'exceptional father' so much so that it almost 'made him cry'. I very much doubt that anybody would have stood for him - money or no money - if he was guilty of the crimes that were suggested.
May 11 – Home Alone star Macaulay Culkin provides one of the highlights of the trial, rejecting any suggestion he was molested by Jackson.
May 24 – Comedian Jay Leno, another celebrity witness called by the defence, tells the jury he was suspicious of the singer's accuser when they spoke on the phone. But in a setback for the defence he said the family of Gavin Arvizo had never asked him for money.
May 25 – Rush Hour star Chris Tucker, the last of 50 defence witnesses, tells the court he found Gavin Arvizo to be unusually sophisticated and cunning for his age and said he grew suspicious of the Arvizo family when they went to the set of a film he was shooting in Las Vegas and refused to leave.
I don't know if anyone would command a defence of '50 defence witnesses' - of lofty reputations - if they were guilty. Bashir, in the edits of the documentary, said Michael Jackson was an 'exceptional father' so much so that it almost 'made him cry'. I very much doubt that anybody would have stood for him - money or no money - if he was guilty of the crimes that were suggested.
I'm not living in 'denail', I'm not living in anything. I haven't actually given my opinion on the children, or anything else regarding Jacko for that matter, just presented a counter argument. I know he was a very naive person and also seemingly a few sandwiches short of a picnic. But I don't actually have enough evidence regarding any of the speculation on Jacko, that's why I don't really have a formed opinion one way or the other. And that's why all the speculation remains just that- speculation. One thing I do know though, is that Jacko is a very, very easy target for the media and for false allegations.
And she may not be a credible witness, but she's the only one available. And I know the black gene is usually dominant, but it's not 100%, so you can hardly go on that.
I haven't read the whole thread so apologies for repeating it. But it is funny.
What isn't funny is the attention that the death of a fecking singer has got when there are wars going on all over the world and people dying in more tragic circumstances, for example Neda Soltan. The outpouring of sycophantic mourning is sickening. I was watching T.V. last night and found it difficult to find a channel that wasn't licking his arse, I had to watch the fecking baseball in the end. People lining up to chip in with their "RIPs" and stories of how he really was an major influence on their lives. They are screaming "Look at me, look at me! I cared about Michael Jackson". Unbelievably it appears to have exceeded Scouse proportions.
I'm honestly not bitter, Smashed. My main emotion when I heard he was dead is indifference and I was a wee bit taken aback by the out-pouring of emotion and public displays of grief over someone who at best wrote some decent pop songs and at worst abused children. The reason I've ended up repeatedly stating my case is because when I originally said how I felt this caused great indignation and I've been defending my stance ever since.
Oh well, I've obviously under-estimated the rawness of the emotions involved so I guess I'd better leave it at that.
That's where are wrong mate, I think you'll find that Michael Jackson was white. He just suffered from a common condition that turns black people and all their genes and DNA white. It happens all the time.
How is this even debatable! Jesus feckin' Christ...
If Eddie Izzard or even Barack Obama had young boys coming forward describing sleep-overs with the grown man climbing into bed with your child... how might you feel?
It is insane that just because a Los Angeles judge and/or jury allowed him to walk (remember Nicole Brown Simpson) - doesn't make it all good.
Why don't people get that Jackson had to move too the other side of the planet because the America populace had enough of is child molesting ways?! Of all fecking countries, Brunie!
Whos Brunie?
even if it were true though - what does it prove? The fact is maybe if people looked in your house they could rip your life apart too and question your life?
Fair enough Smashed..I can't claim to be 100% sure of anything...In fact I don't think he's a paedo to be honest. My only beef isn't with him but with his supporters on here who think his failings shouldn't be addressed and are getting very touchy when anyone mentions them. I'm not going to suddenly praise the man coshe's died.
I idolized Jackson as a child..I grew up doing the dance routines, I even had a fake glove with sequins on it!...In the 70s & 80s he was an utter legend who shaped the way people perform now...but in the 90s & 2000s he failed at life I'm affraid, and no hagiography can disguise it.
He did some very questionable things that a normal person would never have been allowed to get away with and may have ruined the lives of several children (may have) whether he realised it or not. I for one don't believe he knew he was doing anything wrong, I think he's a strangely asexual being who acted innapropriately because he knew no better, but that still shouldn't excuse the things he may have done. If this is the case, that he's simply a naive and cocooned individual living in a fantasy land who doesn't understand the outside world,then he shouldn't be allowed to raise children...Many people are turned away for trivial things like smoking for fecks sake! This is my point, if you want to paint him as a shy and innocent child like person, then you can't big up his parenting cos thats no environment to raise a child in
He is obviously an Idol of many people, but they have to agree the man did many many questionable things and if your going to cry witch hunt when anyone dares to bring this up then you'll be fighting a loosing battle...It's only fair to bring these things up, dead or not...These fans are being just as irrational by glossing over all his ills as people being overly negative are...
If this was a man who hadn't created great music and dance routines in the 80s there wouldn't be nearly as much love for him. And this is my point. Just because he was a legendary musician doesn't mean his failings should be burried...It's fair to raise these issues, because they are real issues affecting real people. They can't be washed away in a tide of hagiography
I idolized Jackson as a child..I grew up doing the dance routines, I even had a fake glove with sequins on it!...In the 70s & 80s he was an utter legend who shaped the way people perform now...but in the 90s & 2000s he failed at life I'm affraid, and no hagiography can disguise it.
He did some very questionable things that a normal person would never have been allowed to get away with and may have ruined the lives of several children (may have) whether he realised it or not. I for one don't believe he knew he was doing anything wrong, I think he's a strangely asexual being who acted innapropriately because he knew no better, but that still shouldn't excuse the things he may have done. If this is the case, that he's simply a naive and cocooned individual living in a fantasy land who doesn't understand the outside world,then he shouldn't be allowed to raise children...Many people are turned away for trivial things like smoking for fecks sake! This is my point, if you want to paint him as a shy and innocent child like person, then you can't big up his parenting cos thats no environment to raise a child in
He is obviously an Idol of many people, but they have to agree the man did many many questionable things and if your going to cry witch hunt when anyone dares to bring this up then you'll be fighting a loosing battle...It's only fair to bring these things up, dead or not...These fans are being just as irrational by glossing over all his ills as people being overly negative are...
If this was a man who hadn't created great music and dance routines in the 80s there wouldn't be nearly as much love for him. And this is my point. Just because he was a legendary musician doesn't mean his failings should be burried...It's fair to raise these issues, because they are real issues affecting real people. They can't be washed away in a tide of hagiography
last pic apparently
no offence but who the feck are you to have a go at anyone? what exactly do you want to accomplish? If your not sure - why are you questioning anyone?? everyone has an opinion on his short comings but what are yours?
The guys not been dead one day and fecking idiots everywhere talking bollocks and it is. No one is saying he's perfect but fecking hell, who is?
Nothings been proven, whatever some people might think or believe ...no one knows the truth and we can all agree on that? So who cares what you suspect or feel or whatever?
People just need to think harder because it is so easy to create a reality about someone that MIGHT not be true - and we are innocent until PROVEN guilty.
Pogue going against the majority shocker!
OK, but if I had 2 black children in my house then I'd been claiming where mine I'd expect some questions to be asked. My problem with Jackson, and his fans, is that because he's famous and powerful, they don't expect, or want, these perfectly sensible questions tobe asked...it's silly. Bury your head in the sand if you like
You forgot to include "hagiography" in that last post, Mockers 
What a fecking ridiculous statement..Because I haven't accomplished anything comparable to Jackson I shouldn't be allowed an opinion? feck offShould I just say he's a great bloke then... cos he's dead?
Well you obviously do....
Fine, thats your opinion...But who cares what you suspect or feel or whatever?
Was out in a club last night and they were already playing Thriller and such as tributes. Everyone was doing the motions, good times.
Typo: Brunei Darussalam
I am sure we all have heard about the Royal sex addicts:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/sultan1.html
listen this has nothing to do with him being a pedofile...
at the end of the day, there are plenty of instances where people get favors. Is it a crime? Is it any of our business? maybe it is - if we trying to adopt and cannot ...
what questions micky? It's been accusations and calling the guy a pedofile. THAT is not a question
yours - again, why did no one ask? Is it enough to question the guy and say he did something amazingly bad? I don't think it is
You forgot to include "hagiography" in that last post, Mockers
..Thats true...I love that word!No, I agree completely. I, by no means, think he was a saint. Like many others, I worshipped him for his on stage charisma and unrivalled musical talent. The man was a genius, an artist without peer. It's easy to see why some people jump to his defence at any allegation, it's human nature to defend our heroes.
At the same time though we have to accept that he was human and had many faults. Personally I think the fame hit him hard, like it did with Besty and many others. It seems to be the fate of our greatest heroes that they are to be destroyed by their worshippers. He was a superstar, and on a pedestal that none of his fellows could touch. It obviously changed him, and not for the better. I agree that I don't think he was a paedophile, I think he was a person who was not all there perhaps, a person who was was very, very naive to the ways of the world. He didn't conform or understand the barriers that the status quo would regard as normal. It's hard to understand exactly what happened, as Jackson had turned into a character who's inner thoughts we can only guess at. But I believe people he allowed close to him saw his naivety and vulnerability, and tried to take advantage of it. This is my view anyway and like Pogue, I did follow the case closely because I idolised the man. It's funny how people can draw completely different conclusions from the same stories though.
Of course he wouldn't be anywhere near as loved if he hadn't created music, he would be a nobody to us and his death would have gone unnoticed. But he was a man who bought music and joy to billions of people. It's the same with Best, if he wasn't a United legend then many would look down on the man who drank too much and hit his wife. Instead we sometimes gloss over the failings of our idols and sometimes even change them completely until, in our own minds eye, we have turned them into a golden knight in shining armour, untouched and unsullied by the vices of mankind. It's the nature of the hero. I agree though, to ignore this man's failings is just as criminal as accepting them without question. If it turned out to be true that he was a paedophile, and the evidence was unquestionable, I would be horrified if anyone chose to ignore it. His talent shouldn't make him any different to me or you when it comes to the eyes of the law, and the general ethics of mankind.
Whats all this rubbish about calling him a paedophile? If you'd read my above post I stated I didn't believe he was one, so your putting words in my mouth and then disagreeing with things I haven't said..Well done
Yes, its my opinion, I'm not stating it as fact...this is yours..The great thing about a democracy is we're all allowed to have one. Presumably you'd rather people with opinions differing from yours to be censored?...I think you'd like North Korea if thats the case
Well said. If all his supporters in this thread where as eloquent I wouldn't have a problem
I know all this - but i don't think 'are the kids really his, is any of your business and I think it's a bit rich you think all mj supporters are fecking stupid (in that we all live in some kinda bubble)
No one here is ignoring anything but clearly he hasn't been PROVEN to have done anything and THAT is why his failings are being ignored on this board because some people you cannot discuss anything with...
Why don't you find out if they're his kids for us and then explain why anyone should be interested either way? It wouldn't be a major crime and it wouldn't make him anymore suspect
Oh yeah. Those boys know how to Sheikh it.
Er, what?
typing on my brothers laptop
Bit sticky, is it?
What!!
So if you found out a man who has a history of acting inapropriately with young boys (whether he abused them or not, he still slept in the same bed as them, which is a strange thing for a grown man to do) had precured two young boys who weren't his biologically but was claiming they were, your telling me that would be absolutely fine and none of your business!!...Thank god you don't work in the child protection services
Uri Gellar is actually on Talksport now. Bloody hell.
What's the difference between Michael Jackson and Alex Ferguson?
Ferguson will still be playing Giggs in August.
Ferguson will still be playing Giggs in August.
I shouldnt but
I feel a bit guilty.. seeing as I actually am a bit sad. But that was a bit funny.....
How many times has he said "..and Michael said to me..." so far?
He was on BBC last night and on 5Live this morning.
As the news was breaking last night, he said he has been trying to contact Jackos parent. Like there going to want to here from that nut job.
This morning on 5live he was saying how he hypnotized Jacko and “unethically” and asked him if he had ever touched kids and why he paid of Jordi Chandler. Jacko, from his hypnotized state, Jacko said he had never touched kids and only paid of Jordi Chandler because “he was scared”.
Suppose thats proof then!!!