Mesut Özil

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Ozil for 12m...
Darren Bent for 16m hmmmm....
David Bently for 15m hmmmmmm.....
Khirchov for 18m hmmmmmm....
Paulo Ferriera for 18m hmmmmm...
Shevshenko for 30m hmmmmm....

I mean the list can go on but you can clearly see that at 12m, Ozil is practically a steal... If I were a FM muppet, I'd by him and sell him the next season for practically 20m.

PS. Don't take me seriously
 
Im with you. I think Fergie will put his trust in Cleverley & Gibson.

Personally, i dont think having Ozil would stunt Cleverleys development too much. I think Fergie should have put him on loan and let him get 25 games+ at somewhere like Wigan or Bolton, like Wiltshire did last year.

I know what you're saying but what when the loan deal expires? You're almost back to where we are now (although I accept that you might suggest that a loan to a decent PL team would give him experience at the higher level). It looks very much like Cleverley is going to be brought through with OUR first team this season though, playing with the players he will be playing with week in and week out for the next few years (that's the idea, anyway, it seems).

As I said, the fact that Cleverley didn't go out on loan would suggest to me that Fergie wants him here in order to play - Ozil AND Cleverley here at the same time would just make that more difficult to achieve.

(I'm going to look a right duck-egg if Fergie buys Ozil tomorrow, aren't I? :lol:)
 
I don't think money has got anything to do with it whatsoever. We are not in financial shit to the point that £12m is beyond us.

I strongly believe that Fergie is literally torn on what to do about Ozil. I think, in an ideal world, he would rather be in this situation in 12 months' time when Scholes and Giggs are likely to be retiring but he knows that leaving it 12 months might be too late because if Ozil is on a free, someone like City will come along and offer him something ridiculous like £250k/week that we simply couldn't and/or wouldn't compete with.

Signing Ozil now is almost an admission that he doesn't really believe that Cleverley and Gibson are the future for the midfield. I genuinely believe he wants to give them every chance this season - as he has given them every chance during pre-season to prove their quality and ability to step up.

Again, this is why I think Fergie would like the Ozil option next summer - after he has given Cleverley and Gibson plenty of match time and been able to make a proper decision.

Whether we think Cleverley and Gibson are better than Ozil or not is irrelevant, Fergie has his reasons for keeping the faith in them for now - mostly loyalty, perhaps. Show them loyalty now and he will get it returned in spades for the rest of the time that he remains their manager.

Personally, I discounted the purchase of Ozil the minute Fergie said that Cleverley wasn't going out on loan. Sorry, Ozil fans, I just don't think it's gonna happen.

Sorry TMRD but 5 years ago SAF would have had this lad snapped up, especially at the money. Times have changed however and we are out of the transfer race when any other big clubs become involved, we cant compete. I like Cleverly and he has a great future but SAF IMHO intended to send him on loan which would have done the lad good but because we are unable to strengthen he is staying.The jury is still out on Gibson and I hope he proves alot of people wrong, he may because of money restraint get a chance to do that
 
That's quite a theory, but we know that there is more than £100m in the bank, and it would be suicidal if the owners were prepared to (hypothetically) lose out on the Premier League and the Champions League to save £12m. It's possible, I suppose, that they may not care about the extra revenue that is earned from winning major trophies, or even that they believe that we can win them without further investment. But you would have to think that if the manager wanted a player for anything under £20m, the owners would consider that to be a sign that the manager believes that it is necessary, and that they would make the money available.

As it is, Werder have been very clear that they would rather keep the player and lose him on a free if they can't attract a high enough fee to allow them to replace him. The £12m figure has no real basis in fact, as far as I am aware. But the difference between £12m and, say, £16m is not particularly important, anyway.

And there is also no evidence to suggest that we are even interested in Ozil and plenty of reason to believe that we would need to sell players to make his signing worthwhile even if we were. With five strikers at the club and two very good wingers who have earned their place in the team, it isn't immediately obvious that he is either required, or that he would replace any of the players who are currently deserving of their position in the team.

The fact that some people are trying to shoe-horn him in to a central midfield position suggests that the desire to sign him has completely over-ridden all other considerations. And that's just not a particularly good reason to sign anyone, in my opinion, no matter how talented they are.

I mean, Giggs wasn't a person who I'd think can do the job in 4-4-2 for us but he's been one of our best players there ?

Sometimes it is up to talent... I mean would we like a Smith in CM or an Ozil to try ? CM is a very complicated position, but of course, I'd take a player who can pass, cross ala Scholes which can dictate play than a destroyer which we already have with Fletch ( OH )

So I mean, Ozil for 12m is worth a go in the long run... We can definately rotate him like what we did to Giggs, I mean a LW/In the hole/CM is all possible for this lad because of talent...

I'd love Giggs to play for us til he's 50 but if we're looking for a replacement, I see Ozil currently is the player who is closest to do what Giggs did, he won't tear defenses apart with pace and natural speed, but its the passing range/flair and creativity that we certainly can hope for. He and Anderson could be our future and at 12m, basically we have to agree that it should be good value in the market.

I'm not trying to be a muppet and who knows if 12m is real or not, but I'd be very depressed if I heard a player in the mould of Ozil being sold for 12m and we weren't even trying to contact him.
 
Sorry TMRD but 5 years ago SAF would have had this lad snapped up, especially at the money. Times have changed however and we are out of the transfer race when any other big clubs become involved, we cant compete. I like Cleverly and he has a great future but SAF IMHO intended to send him on loan which would have done the lad good but because we are unable to strengthen he is staying.The jury is still out on Gibson and I hope he proves alot of people wrong, he may because of money restraint get a chance to do that

We've never really competed with the big boys when it comes to buying though. Obviously Rio and Rooney were huge, but that was in England. Against the biggest Spanish and Italian clubs we've always been a step behind.

I remember everyone talking about Zidane, Batistuta, Carlos, Ronaldo (fat), Ronaldinho etc. We just haven't been buying stars very often, with a few exceptions.
 
We've never really competed with the big boys when it comes to buying though. Obviously Rio and Rooney were huge, but that was in England. Against the biggest Spanish and Italian clubs we've always been a step behind.

I remember everyone talking about Zidane, Batistuta, Carlos, Ronaldo (fat), Ronaldinho etc. We just haven't been buying stars very often, with a few exceptions.

The only one of those lads I know for a fact we definitely were in for was Ronaldinho and SAF said recently he believed had been signed more or less. A certain chief executive somehow messed up the deal before shortly joining our opposition
 
Sorry TMRD but 5 years ago SAF would have had this lad snapped up, especially at the money. Times have changed however and we are out of the transfer race when any other big clubs become involved, we cant compete. I like Cleverly and he has a great future but SAF IMHO intended to send him on loan which would have done the lad good but because we are unable to strengthen he is staying.The jury is still out on Gibson and I hope he proves alot of people wrong, he may because of money restraint get a chance to do that
Yet earlier this year we had Darren Ferguson saying that, after talking to his father, he got the impression that Cleverley wouldn't be going anywhere on loan this season, that he was a big part of the first team plans.
 
Yet earlier this year we had Darren Ferguson saying that, after talking to his father, he got the impression that Cleverley wouldn't be going anywhere on loan this season, that he was a big part of the first team plans.

There is no doubt he is and rightly so, but it did seem and I have no firm proof of this that he was going out on loan with Newcastle being the firm favourites
 
The only one of those lads I know for a fact we definitely were in for was Ronaldinho and SAF said recently he believed had been signed more or less. A certain chief executive somehow messed up the deal before shortly joining our opposition

fergie rejected zidane after cantona recommended him.

fergie wanted batistuta (from fergie's autobio) but united wages under edwards were dogshit compared to the continent so no chance of ever being competitive for him.
 
The only one of those lads I know for a fact we definitely were in for was Ronaldinho and SAF said recently he believed had been signed more or less. A certain chief executive somehow messed up the deal before shortly joining our opposition

The obvious question is then how do you know for certain that we are after Ozil? This being wrapped up long for five years ago and all.
 
Sorry TMRD but 5 years ago SAF would have had this lad snapped up, especially at the money. Times have changed however and we are out of the transfer race when any other big clubs become involved, we cant compete. I like Cleverly and he has a great future but SAF IMHO intended to send him on loan which would have done the lad good but because we are unable to strengthen he is staying.The jury is still out on Gibson and I hope he proves alot of people wrong, he may because of money restraint get a chance to do that

I think we would have had this lad snapped up two years ago but the squad rules are having an effect now.

At some point, Cleverley has to be brought through or let go. He's 21 in a few days' time. The make-or-break time is now.

Ozil is already 21. It's either/or as far as I can see.

I know you like to think that money is the barrier but I think you're totally wrong on that one. If we were looking at £40million for Ozil then I would probably agree but £12m? No. Sorry, I have to disagree. Especially when we bought an unproven Smalling for not much less earlier this year.
 
No, but we don't know either. It's possible that we may have been looking to get him on a free next season. The squad is good enough to win the league this season IMVHO.

squad good enough to do the biz in europe?

number 19 will come (as fergie said in the frost interview...it isn't a question of if, it is a question of when).

however, the club needs more success in europe as much as it can. To be honest the window of opportunity might've already closed with ronnie leaving in 09, but I am quite surprised that fergie isn't reloading ever year to try to win it once or twice more (to tie/get ahead of paisely) because he doesn't have much time left and europe is still his holy grail.
 
I think we would have had this lad snapped up two years ago but the squad rules are having an effect now.

At some point, Cleverley has to be brought through or let go. He's 21 in a few days' time. The make-or-break time is now.

Ozil is already 21. It's either/or as far as I can see.

I know you like to think that money is the barrier but I think you're totally wrong on that one. If we were looking at £40million for Ozil then I would probably agree but £12m? No. Sorry, I have to disagree. Especially when we bought an unproven Smalling for not much less earlier this year.

The only thing anybody can say for certain is that we will probably never know what was or was not going on
 
There is no doubt he is and rightly so, but it did seem and I have no firm proof of this that he was going out on loan with Newcastle being the firm favourites

Turning into a Cleverley thread this :lol: but I think Fergie took him on the USA Tour to have a good look at him before making up his mind one way or the other. Cleverley certainly didn't do his cause any harm with his performances as far as I could see and Fergie clearly felt the same and has since knocked any talk of loans on the head.

The tie with Ozil is that I think this was the time for Fergie to make a decision and he has made it imo.
 
Sorry TMRD but 5 years ago SAF would have had this lad snapped up, especially at the money. Times have changed however and we are out of the transfer race when any other big clubs become involved, we cant compete. I like Cleverly and he has a great future but SAF IMHO intended to send him on loan which would have done the lad good but because we are unable to strengthen he is staying.The jury is still out on Gibson and I hope he proves alot of people wrong, he may because of money restraint get a chance to do that

I have said before like yourself I know sweet FA for certain about Ozil. What are you on about 5 years?

So what you meant above was:

"Sorry TMRD but 5 years ago SAF, if he was interested and Ozil wanted to join, would have snapped this lad up, especially at the money. Times have changed however and we are out of the transfer race ...."

You see you say very clearly that you don't know if we are interested. Then you make a post where you less clearly say that we are interested, and had this only been five years ago he would have been ours.

I'm am not on about 5 years no, whatever that means.
 
So what you meant above was:

"Sorry TMRD but 5 years ago SAF, if he was interested and Ozil wanted to join, would have snapped this lad up, especially at the money. Times have changed however and we are out of the transfer race ...."

You see you say very clearly that you don't know if we are interested. Then you make a post where you less clearly say that we are interested, and had this only been five years ago he would have been ours.

I'm am not on about 5 years no, whatever that means.
Ssssshh, don't ruin it for him.
 
Turning into a Cleverley thread this :lol: but I think Fergie took him on the USA Tour to have a good look at him before making up his mind one way or the other. Cleverley certainly didn't do his cause any harm with his performances as far as I could see and Fergie clearly felt the same and has since knocked any talk of loans on the head.

The tie with Ozil is that I think this was the time for Fergie to make a decision and he has made it imo.

Now the last thing I want to do is go off thread and get another telling off so I will leave the Cleverly chat there. I am convinced however SAF wanted Ozil, why we are not going to get him we are not going to agree about are we
 
Why do you insist on posting in it?

It's like a car crash. You know it won't be pretty, but you just can't take you eyes away. You'll be glad if the blood and guts are quickly tidied away afterwards though.
 
Now the last thing I want to do is go off thread and get another telling off so I will leave the Cleverly chat there. I am convinced however SAF wanted Ozil, why we are not going to get him we are not going to agree about are we

I dont know how you can even argue about it when neither side in fact has any fecking clue what is going on and probably ever will.
 
Now the last thing I want to do is go off thread and get another telling off so I will leave the Cleverly chat there. I am convinced however SAF wanted Ozil, why we are not going to get him we are not going to agree about are we

No. We can only make up a transfer story and then make up reasons why it didn't happen. :lol:
 
So what you meant above was:

"Sorry TMRD but 5 years ago SAF, if he was interested and Ozil wanted to join, would have snapped this lad up, especially at the money. Times have changed however and we are out of the transfer race ...."

You see you say very clearly that you don't know if we are interested. Then you make a post where you less clearly say that we are interested, and had this only been five years ago he would have been ours.

I'm am not on about 5 years no, whatever that means.

Oh sorry I see what you are getting all hot under the collar about, apologies. What I meant was that 5 years ago before Glazer that is, we had the clout to snap players like Ozil or at least be in with a shout of competing.
 
It's like a car crash. You know it won't be pretty, but you just can't take you eyes away.
You are as bad, if not worse, than the muppets. Bottom line, neither side knows for certain. I only see one side making serious, definitive statements. The "we have no money, we can't compete against the big clubs, we won't be signing anyone, blah, blah, blah", crowd.

I don't know why people speculating on transfers in the Transfer Forum seems to piss you off so much.
 
That's quite a theory, but we know that there is more than £100m in the bank, and it would be suicidal if the owners were prepared to (hypothetically) lose out on the Premier League and the Champions League to save £12m. It's possible, I suppose, that they may not care about the extra revenue that is earned from winning major trophies, or even that they believe that we can win them without further investment. But you would have to think that if the manager wanted a player for anything under £20m, the owners would consider that to be a sign that the manager believes that it is necessary, and that they would make the money available.

As it is, Werder have been very clear that they would rather keep the player and lose him on a free if they can't attract a high enough fee to allow them to replace him. The £12m figure has no real basis in fact, as far as I am aware. But the difference between £12m and, say, £16m is not particularly important, anyway.

And there is also no evidence to suggest that we are even interested in Ozil and plenty of reason to believe that we would need to sell players to make his signing worthwhile even if we were. With five strikers at the club and two very good wingers who have earned their place in the team, it isn't immediately obvious that he is either required, or that he would replace any of the players who are currently deserving of their position in the team.

The fact that some people are trying to shoe-horn him in to a central midfield position suggests that the desire to sign him has completely over-ridden all other considerations. And that's just not a particularly good reason to sign anyone, in my opinion, no matter how talented they are.

The Interweb is silly and sometimes sarcasm doesn't come across.

My post was to try and show that if SAF does want the money, then it is there. When we agree to pay 10m for Smalling - when I say we knew we'd sell Tosic for 7m to CSKA - that obviously wasn't true. We didn't know we'd sell him for that much or that we'd sell him.


Same goes with Chicha, SAF got the 7m for him - we didn't know we'd sell Foster for 6m.

That the books so far are balanced (or close to it) withe comings and goings are a coincidence at best or at worst that SAF must sell players to get new players in. However, if SAF truly wants Ozil in then there is probably a number of fringe players that he can sell to raise the money to "balance the books".

And please people 12m - that is a made up number, someone once said that is what the price seems to be for him and that has stuck. We don't know if Bremen are asking 1.2m, 12m or 120m for him.
 
And, while Im at it, when have we ever, in our entire history, beaten Real or Barca to a player we were in direct competition for (apart from Valencia who, despite being our player, is ever so slightly weird isnt he. In a nice unassuming way like).
 
You are as bad, if not worse, than the muppets. Bottom line, neither side knows for certain. I only see one side making serious, definitive statements. The "we have no money, we can't compete against the big clubs, we won't be signing anyone, blah, blah, blah."

I don't know why people speculating on transfers in the Transfer Forum seems to piss you off so much.

Get a fecking grip . There's news, there's speculation, and there's downright mindlessness. If, for example, someone starts moaning that only signing Oezil can save United then they're due a bollocking as they are obviously the type that cares more about a "big name" signing than showing any faith in Fergie and the team.
 
And please people 12m - that is a made up number, someone once said that is what the price seems to be for him and that has stuck. We don't know if Bremen are asking 1.2m, 12m or 120m for him.

I think £12million for a very promising 21 year old who has eyes on the side of his head and is in the last year of his contract would represent a fair figure in today's stagnant market. Speculation or not, the figures that get bandied around in the press are not usually too far out.

It would only be £30million if City got involved.
 
Players like Nani, Anderson and Berbatov you mean? And Valencia? Players like that?

This thread is about Ozil and I am not straying off thread but dont think for one second I am avoiding the question, I have already stated I wont get into any more Glazer discussions
 
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